crayon Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>This will definitely make for some interesting updating of mods. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, but it should make things better overall.</p><p> </p><p> One thing that does come to mind though, is vague angles which could be minor or major, depending how you interpret them. No examples jump out at me right now, but I'm positive that it's going to be something that pops up when I'm playing.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>Worker arrives - Non-entity gets out of car - No-one cares</p><p> Worker arrives - The Rock gets out of car and is geared up for battle with Vince, D-X and Stone Cold in violation of a storyline banning order that should keep him away from WWF personell - Crowd goes wild</p><p> </p><p> *</p><p> </p><p> There may need to be some duplication <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> But I like this one a lot. I hope we can toggle by minor/major in the filters, but I can't imagine we won't be able to.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well, I guess all the people complaining about the six minute rule are now satisfied. My playing will not be impacted much by this. Cool that Adam listens to his fans, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hmm. Not 'bad' but something to get used to I guess. I liked the simple elegance of the old system. Oh well, I'm nothing if not adaptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James Casey" data-cite="James Casey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Worker arrives - Non-entity gets out of car - No-one cares<p> Worker arrives - The Rock gets out of car and is geared up for battle with Vince, D-X and Stone Cold in violation of a storyline banning order that should keep him away from WWF personell - Crowd goes wild</p><p> </p><p> *</p><p> </p><p> There may need to be some duplication <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> But I like this one a lot. I hope we can toggle by minor/major in the filters, but I can't imagine we won't be able to.</p></div></blockquote><p> I don't think a worker getting out of a car in backstage angle should affect the show rating, ever. No matter how big the star is. Let's say your tv show is two hours and long and you have one one-minute-angle where a worker gets out of the car. I can't think of any way how that could actually affect the show rating.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bus Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well, if it's a surprise megastar appearance it might really have an effect on the whole show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think a worker getting out of a car in backstage angle should affect the show rating, ever. No matter how big the star is. Let's say your tv show is two hours and long and you have one one-minute-angle where a worker gets out of the car. I can't think of any way how that could actually affect the show rating.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, how about this one:</p><p> </p><p> The first Raw post-Survivor Series in 2001 saw WWF press the reboot button. No more WCW or ECW, Jerry Lawler back behind the mic, WWF had actual heels... All of these were welcome developments. Some were minor, some were major (Lawler's return was huge).</p><p> </p><p> Then there was the short segment at the end of the show, with Vince congratulating himself on defeating his enemies - only for the new co-owner of WWF to make his debut: Ric Flair.</p><p> </p><p> That was a huge segment that really capped off what was seen as the best episode of Raw in months, but it was just a debut at the end of the day - we've seen Sheamus, Eric Escobar and others debut or switch brands in recent weeks to zero reaction because they weren't designed to do so.</p><p> </p><p> I've often thought that six minutes was a bit arbritary - although useful for me as I could send Rip out to do a self-promo and give my B shows a boost at the end. However, having major or minor angles is a nice touch. I can still have long angles, but I can have short ones as well. Think about how long it took Shawn Michaels to superkick Hulk Hogan, or Bret Hart to punch Vince, or Tomko to say 'no' to Christian's request for a beat as a couple more examples: Short angles can <em>define</em> a show, not just affect its ratings. I may be straying into a different area, but think about how often some variant on "the show's worth watching for CM Punk's impression of Hulk Hogan" pops up in reviews. A big moment in a small angle can definitely affect a show. </p><p> </p><p> (And to mention one that <em>negatively</em> affected a show: Vince's return from the stage-collapse injury. The crowd's keyed up for a big reveal - maybe Vince in a wheelchair, maybe Vince in a coma, maybe Vince's brain in a jar. Instead we get Vince and Dolph Ziggler. Crowd silence, moment blown, show spoilt).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerkinney Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 As someone who does tend to favour ''faction warfare' I do tend to use quite alot of what I would call transitional angles. For example, as a stable member saving a fellow stable member from a post match beatdown and it leading to another match between the 'cavalry' and the opposing faction. It's the sort of angle that would come in under five minutes and is really just there to help transition from one match to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>You seem to be missing my point. Sure, the actual return of a megastar is a big thing. But that doesn't mean that the one-minute angle where the star is shown backstage doesn't have an actual effect to the show grade. Let's take the Ric Flair example. Yes, his return was really big, but had it only been a one-minute backstage clip, it would not have affected the show. What did have an effect was the ending of the episode with Flair, Vince, Angle and Austin in the ring and it was well over the six minute mark.</p><p> </p><p> My point is, if the episode lasts for 120 minutes, even if one minute of show is amazing, if 119 minutes of the show suck, the one minute really makes no difference. When you think about real life, a great ending to a crap show makes you think "Well, I'll tune in next week", but it doesn't make you go "Man, that was a great show because of the ending!"</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>I, for one, can only speculate on what effect the feature might have on the fabled six-minute thing, but it's a good feature to have for sure. Major and minor angles, as the update said, it allows for more accurate simulation, and I'm all for that.</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> My point is, if the episode lasts for 120 minutes, even if one minute of show is amazing, if 119 minutes of the show suck, the one minute really makes no difference. When you think about real life, a great ending to a crap show makes you think "Well, I'll tune in next week", but it doesn't make you go "Man, that was a great show because of the ending!"</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Angles are weighted on both the time they run AND less the matches. So in your example, the awesome angle at the end might add a full percent (abritrary number) but it's weight would be so minimal it would have next to no impact.</p><p> </p><p> HOWEVER this is a huge relief because so many angles in the default database are set up as 5 minute angles. So no matter who was involved, no matter how key to a storyline, they would never get counted. Ever. So even if a whole storyline, a whole show is centered upon whether the Tweener champion will join with the top heel stable, and at the end of the show he gives his answer, it will count towards the show, like it should.</p><p> </p><p> It's not an instant win button. Angles are weighted less then matches so if you put on crappy matches, the show will still suck.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dvdWarrior" data-cite="dvdWarrior" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I, for one, can only speculate on what effect the feature might have on the fabled six-minute thing</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You don't need to speculate, it's answered in the very first word of the journal entry - it replaces it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You don't need to speculate, it's answered in the very first word of the journal entry - it replaces it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Every time I've posted tonight, I've just pwned the ever-loving daylights out of myself. Guess this is what happens when I don't sleep. I only use angles when I absolutely have to anyway, so... </p><p> </p><p> <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>Seems like every single entry someone comes in here and speculates on something and Adam has to point to a sentence that specifically addresses the speculation. </p><p> </p><p> Isn't this board comprised largely of non-Americans? I thought it was only Americans that had reading comprehension problems!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You seem to be missing my point. Sure, the actual return of a megastar is a big thing. But that doesn't mean that the one-minute angle where the star is shown backstage doesn't have an actual effect to the show grade. Let's take the Ric Flair example. Yes, his return was really big, but had it only been a one-minute backstage clip, it would not have affected the show. What did have an effect was the ending of the episode with Flair, Vince, Angle and Austin in the ring and it was well over the six minute mark.<p> </p><p> My point is, if the episode lasts for 120 minutes, even if one minute of show is amazing, if 119 minutes of the show suck, the one minute really makes no difference. When you think about real life, a great ending to a crap show makes you think "Well, I'll tune in next week", but it doesn't make you go "Man, that was a great show because of the ending!"</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'll grant you that a one minute angle tends not to make or break a show, but in addition to the rule being completely arbitrary, think how many classic angles wouldn't even considered as part of the show grade: most anything involving the Rock, Austin and Angle's backstage antics, "you think you know me" on the kazoo- practically any backstage angle isn't designed to affect the show rating AT ALL. Hulk Hogan giving a 3 minute promo before his match with Andre? Not considered. </p><p> </p><p> As it is now, the only angles that are considered are angles that are basically an entire segment of non-wrestling, while "act-break" angles that bring a show into a break or serve as a buffer don't accomplish anything. I have a hard time seeing this as anything but a great change.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waghlon Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Only minor and major? Seems a bit too on/off. Cant help thinking it should rather be minor, major and "really incredible important". Would hype go in the minor or the major category? Why couldnt it go in between? How about open challenges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Stranger Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Waghlon" data-cite="Waghlon" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Only minor and major? Seems a bit too on/off. Cant help thinking it should rather be minor, major and "really incredible important". Would hype go in the minor or the major category? Why couldnt it go in between? How about open challenges?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Jack Bruce walks down to the ring and throws out an open challenge with the SWF World Championship on the line: Major</p><p> </p><p> Bruce's challenge is met by Vengeance: Major</p><p> </p><p> In mimicry, Stretch The Chicken Boy marches down to the ring and throws out an open challenge: WAY minor</p><p> </p><p> Vengeance answers that one too, for the hell of it, by punching him out: Depends how heavily you're building Vengeance.</p><p> </p><p> Back from commercial, Christian Faith hypes his upcoming PPV showdown: Major</p><p> </p><p> Later on, Big Smack Scott hypes his lack of a PPV match: Minor.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="praguepride" data-cite="praguepride" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>the awesome angle at the end might add a full percent (abritrary number) but it's weight would be so minimal it would have next to no impact.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, this is what I was going for and not explaining very well <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> A great angle won't save a show of suck, nor will a sucky angle kill a great show, but they can have an effect.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Waghlon" data-cite="Waghlon" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Only minor and major? Seems a bit too on/off. Cant help thinking it should rather be minor, major and "really incredible important". Would hype go in the minor or the major category? Why couldnt it go in between? How about open challenges?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's not a <em>bit</em> on/off, it IS on/off....that's the whole point of it! An angle can only either have an affect on the final rating or not, it's a yes or no situation.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supershot Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>#22: Angle Impact<p> </p><p> Replacing the old "six minute" rule, whether or not an angle's ratings affects the show's overall rating is now defined via the database. Angles can either be Minor (does not affect the overall rating) or Major (does have an affect).</p><p> </p><p> This allows for a more accurate simulation.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is my favorite addition so far. I've always thought that the 6 minute limit was a little unrealistic. The new angle Impact sounds like it should be awesome.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>Angle length & positioning (i think) determine how much "weight" it has.</p><p> </p><p> So you're "way important" angle should be a long angle at a key point if you want it to have the most impact.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am dying to get my hands on this game at the minute...most of the improvements have got me interested at the minute. Hopefully Adam can keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I've liked pretty much every new feature announced thus far, but this might be one of my favorites. I doubt the 6-minute limit on 2008 was arbitrary, but it always felt limiting. I like this approach much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 <p>Yeah, looking back I think it was deliberate to put most of the "minor" angles at 5 minutes max length. The Diva shoots t-shirts, the "bump into each other and argue" stuff, I can see why the view would be to have those be "minor" incidents, but unfortunately that doesn't take into account how shows are built, especially SE or T&A feds that are all about the angles.</p><p> </p><p> Major storylines would have "minor" angles that I would have to manually create so they would actually have the impact they would.</p><p> </p><p> What I hope is that this feature lets us set the major/minor impact AS WE BOOK. It can default to major/minor as appropriate, but it'd be awesome if we could change the impact on the fly instead of having to create a bunch of duplicate angles </p><p> </p><p> e.g: Arguement Leading to a 1 v 1 (Minor), Arguement Leading to a 1 v 1 (Major) etc. etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I love this feature as well. I like to break my angles up into 2/3 seperate angles so this is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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