The Final Countdown Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If you really feel Hogan got shafted by WWE (I dont), then this is yet another strong argument for Wrestlers to unionize so that the get access to due process under a collective bargaining agreement when these issues occur. And the irony here is that it was Hogan who squealed to Vince when Jesse Ventura was trying to organize a union 30+ years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThriceP86 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 A union for pro wrestlers would be bad for business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I can't speak about a father's reaction (i.e Hogan's) dislike of his daughter dating someone including multiple N-bombs as being a racist reaction in my opinion? No where did i say it would be your own reaction, I was simply responding to your statement that you could "Understand his (Hogan's) reaction" to his daughters choice in men, which by the transcript included racist remarks. I personally can't imagine any situation where I would be so made at my hypothetical daughter's choice in a BF would cause me to start insulting the guys race. I could easily see me thinking he was a loser, or the wrong choice for her, or an (insert swear word here), scumbag, dirtbag, ect. Never in my life would i suddenly go to "The main problem i have is that she's dating outside her race." I'll rebuttle to this statement...think about the man's age first of all he is 61 years old. The first 30 years of his life it was widely "acceptable" I regret to say in open conversation. That is just his generation. Does it make it right? No it does not. But that is how his generation of white male's water cooler talk went about. My parents were the same generation but I guess where I grew up in the south it was too common to hear that language. Again I'm not condoning the behaviour one bit I just think people are a little too butt hurt nowadays over these things. Do you think there would be this much hooplah if Booker T went and made remarks about some cracker dating his daughter. "Maybe not a record producer but if she was with a doctor cracker that made millions than that would be ok." I literately spun the scenario around but no body would fire him for that...he might get suspended without pay but that's it. Even if they have to fire the man for PR reasons taking away the man's legacy by trying to wipe away his existence by taking him off the website and Hall of Fame is ridiculous. I understand they have to punish him in some way but trying to deny him completely is just Bull$H1T! Edit: I found another link to some of his close friends and his daughter... http://time.com/3971895/hulk-hogan/ And this is from his twitter of everyone that is saying he is not a racist the list includes Dennis Rodman, Virgil, Glen Gilbertti (but he is not black lol!). I am pretty damn sure it was a bone head statement made by a guy who was mad at the world at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 You don't need a track record to be a racist, or a rapist, or a murderer. You commit the act and once it's done, you are branded with that for the rest of your life. Sex offenders still have to declare it as customs even if the offence in question was 25 years ago. Also, the N-word has a lot of history to it, it was obviously used rather a lot during the slave trade, always in a derogatory context and so, that word can really hurt people even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukess11 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 You don't need a track record to be a racist, or a rapist, or a murderer. You commit the act and once it's done, you are branded with that for the rest of your life. Sex offenders still have to declare it as customs even if the offence in question was 25 years ago. Also, the N-word has a lot of history to it, it was obviously used rather a lot during the slave trade, always in a derogatory context and so, that word can really hurt people even now. Vince has said it on TV before, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Vince has said it on TV before, though. Yes, but that was at a time when he wasn't pushing a TV-PG product with a Mattel toy deal. The context is also clearly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'll rebuttle to this statement...think about the man's age first of all he is 61 years old. The first 30 years of his life it was widely "acceptable" I regret to say in open conversation. That is just his generation. Does it make it right? No it does not. But that is how his generation of white male's water cooler talk went about. My parents were the same generation but I guess where I grew up in the south it was too common to hear that language. Again I'm not condoning the behaviour one bit I just think people are a little too butt hurt nowadays over these things. Do you think there would be this much hooplah if Booker T went and made remarks about some cracker dating his daughter. "Maybe not a record producer but if she was with a doctor cracker that made millions than that would be ok." I literately spun the scenario around but no body would fire him for that...he might get suspended without pay but that's it. Even if they have to fire the man for PR reasons taking away the man's legacy by trying to wipe away his existence by taking him off the website and Hall of Fame is ridiculous. I understand they have to punish him in some way but trying to deny him completely is just Bull$H1T! Edit: I found another link to some of his close friends and his daughter... http://time.com/3971895/hulk-hogan/ And this is from his twitter of everyone that is saying he is not a racist the list includes Dennis Rodman, Virgil, Glen Gilbertti (but he is not black lol!). I am pretty damn sure it was a bone head statement made by a guy who was mad at the world at the time. Just because there are apologists for Hogan doesn't mean anything. Just because people say he's not a racist doesn't make him not a racist. Just like people said OJ Simpson didn't murder anyone. And regarding your Booker T analogy, cracker is nowhere NEAR as offensive as the N word. It doesn't have the same deep roots in America as the N word. Especially since the N-word was used to refer to slaves and slavery. The N word has also been associated with numerous hate groups. A pretty bad thing to be associated with. People get "butt hurt" over this because Hogan said something that is, offensive, ignorant, and makes you look like an idiot who is living in the past. There are people alive today who had to fight for their rights because of their skin color and were berated with that word. I grew up in the south too and every time I heard someone drop that hard R, I knew they were an ignorant idiot. Just because you're mad at the world doesn't give you an excuse. When I'm mad, I cuss and I get upset, but I certainly don't start whipping racist slurs. If you do, you might be a racist. I'm pretty sure some mass shooters were mad at the world too, but I don't think they deserve a pass because they were having a rough day. If anything, Hogan's age should serve to the point that he should know better. He's only 61. He's not some senile old man who can't control what he's saying. And he was only in his 50s when he said it. He knows what that word is, he knows how he's using it. and he knows who it is directed at. Does Hogan deserve the Benoit treatment? To an extent, yes. And I don't blame the WWE for doing it. Are they being hypocritical? Sure. But I'd rather them be hypocritical and remove a racist from my screen then allow it and say "Hey, it's okay to be a racist idiot, just keep it to 5 N bombs minimum and you'll be fine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just because there are apologists for Hogan doesn't mean anything. Just because people say he's not a racist doesn't make him not a racist. Just like people said OJ Simpson didn't murder anyone. And regarding your Booker T analogy, cracker is nowhere NEAR as offensive as the N word. It doesn't have the same deep roots in America as the N word. Especially since the N-word was used to refer to slaves and slavery. The N word has also been associated with numerous hate groups. A pretty bad thing to be associated with. People get "butt hurt" over this because Hogan said something that is, offensive, ignorant, and makes you look like an idiot who is living in the past. There are people alive today who had to fight for their rights because of their skin color and were berated with that word. I grew up in the south too and every time I heard someone drop that hard R, I knew they were an ignorant idiot. Just because you're mad at the world doesn't give you an excuse. When I'm mad, I cuss and I get upset, but I certainly don't start whipping racist slurs. If you do, you might be a racist. I'm pretty sure some mass shooters were mad at the world too, but I don't think they deserve a pass because they were having a rough day. If anything, Hogan's age should serve to the point that he should know better. He's only 61. He's not some senile old man who can't control what he's saying. And he was only in his 50s when he said it. He knows what that word is, he knows how he's using it. and he knows who it is directed at. Does Hogan deserve the Benoit treatment? To an extent, yes. And I don't blame the WWE for doing it. Are they being hypocritical? Sure. But I'd rather them be hypocritical and remove a racist from my screen then allow it and say "Hey, it's okay to be a racist idiot, just keep it to 5 N bombs minimum and you'll be fine." Obviously you think a 30+ year career should be crucified over a paragraph. What he has done for every company he worked for is why he was given that hall of fame spot. To take it away over a few comments is insane...it's ok for warrior to bash homosexuals it's ok for Pete Rose to gamble...it's ok for Booker T and Vince McMahon to use the words even if they are not in a derogatory sense. But saying that whatever Hulk Hogan has done means nothing now is just foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 On a lighter note: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 On a lighter note: LMAO! See I can imagine what the WWE Network is going to look like in a month or two if people keep making a stink about this! It will be reminiscent of what you see here. They are just now letting Chris Benoit footage back in....not all of it mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Obviously you think a 30+ year career should be crucified over a paragraph. What he has done for every company he worked for is why he was given that hall of fame spot. To take it away over a few comments is insane...it's ok for warrior to bash homosexuals it's ok for Pete Rose to gamble...it's ok for Booker T and Vince McMahon to use the words even if they are not in a derogatory sense. But saying that whatever Hulk Hogan has done means nothing now is just foolish. Or he's saying that WWE is trying to avoid the media backlash that would come from having their brand associated with Hogan at this time, and they'll probably make up and sign a new contract in a couple of years when this has blown over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Obviously you think a 30+ year career should be crucified over a paragraph. What he has done for every company he worked for is why he was given that hall of fame spot. To take it away over a few comments is insane...it's ok for warrior to bash homosexuals it's ok for Pete Rose to gamble...it's ok for Booker T and Vince McMahon to use the words even if they are not in a derogatory sense. But saying that whatever Hulk Hogan has done means nothing now is just foolish. Yes, I'm perfectly fine with a 30+ year old racist career in professional wrestling being wiped from history because I do not care about a racist's career. Just like I'm fine with Benoit being wiped because I do not care about a murderer's career. I mentioned what Warrior said in another post and nowhere did I commend him for saying what he said. If Warrior's legacy was wiped too, I'd be glad. But since he's dead, no one is going to care as much as they care about what Hogan said. You should stop comparing what Vince and Booker said to what Hogan said. It's two completely different sides of the spectrum. Neither what Booker or Vince said was meant to be racist. Booker's was a heat of the moment thing and Vince's was an attempt at humor which is totally subjective since some people find it funny and some don't. That's comedy. edit - Also what Pete Rose did is nothing compared to what Hogan and Warrior said. The line that gets drawn is Booker T said it once. Vince McMahon said it once. Hulk Hogan dropped it with the hard R multiple times, then continued being a racist by stereotyping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Or he's saying that WWE is trying to avoid the media backlash that would come from having their brand associated with Hogan at this time, and they'll probably make up and sign a new contract in a couple of years when this has blown over. You think firing him would be enough or you think it's a knee jerk reaction to strike him from the record books... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yes, I'm perfectly fine with a 30+ year old racist career in professional wrestling being wiped from history because I do not care about a racist's career. Just like I'm fine with Benoit being wiped because I do not care about a murderer's career. I mentioned what Warrior said in another post and nowhere did I commend him for saying what he said. If Warrior's legacy was wiped too, I'd be glad. But since he's dead, no one is going to care as much as they care about what Hogan said. You should stop comparing what Vince and Booker said to what Hogan said. It's two completely different sides of the spectrum. Neither what Booker or Vince said was meant to be racist. Booker's was a heat of the moment thing and Vince's was an attempt at humor which is totally subjective since some people find it funny and some don't. That's comedy. edit - Also what Pete Rose did is nothing compared to what Hogan and Warrior said. The line that gets drawn is Booker T said it once. Vince McMahon said it once. Hulk Hogan dropped it with the hard R multiple times, then continued being a racist by stereotyping. Ok maybe what hogan said was the heat of the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok maybe what hogan said was the heat of the moment? Booker Huffman was playing Booker T, the character. Vincent Kennedy McMahon was playing Mr. McMahon, the character. Terry Bollea was speaking as Terry Bollea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok maybe what hogan said was the heat of the moment? What Hogan said was the heat of many moments if he went on a full rant about it. Again, I'm saying, Booker T said it ONCE. Hulk Hogan went on a rant against a black person in which he used an offensive term multiple times and stereotyped the race. That's not an "Oopsie, slip of the tongue" moment, that's "I might be a racist" moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 What Hogan said was the heat of many moments if he went on a full rant about it. Again, I'm saying, Booker T said it ONCE. Hulk Hogan went on a rant against a black person in which he used an offensive term multiple times and stereotyped the race. That's not an "Oopsie, slip of the tongue" moment, that's "I might be a racist" moment. Ok let me ask you this how do you tell the story of wrestling without Hulk Hogan? You couldn't tell the story without Chris Benoit. It's almost like saying how do you tell the story of wrestling without Ric Flair it isn't going to happen. So why fight what he has accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok let me ask you this how do you tell the story of wrestling without Hulk Hogan? You couldn't tell the story without Chris Benoit. It's almost like saying how do you tell the story of wrestling without Ric Flair it isn't going to happen. So why fight what he has accomplished. Here's how I tell that story I don't Because I don't care that much about the past of pro wrestling nor do I care about Hulk Hogan or anything he's ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Here's how I tell that story I don't Because I don't care that much about the past of pro wrestling nor do I care about Hulk Hogan or anything he's ever done. So according to you.... Iron Sheik dropped the title to....nobody....Andre The Giant put over an invisible man at Wrestlemania 3....Andre won the title from nobody only to have it vacated the same night....Yokuzuna beat bret Hart at Wrestlemania just to lose it to nobody again.....and then beat that nobody at King of The Ring in 93. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were the only founding members of the NWO. NWO come to WWE and nobody wrestles in the main event against the Rock. I could go all day but I think you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMegaFish Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ok let me ask you this how do you tell the story of wrestling without Hulk Hogan? You couldn't tell the story without Chris Benoit. It's almost like saying how do you tell the story of wrestling without Ric Flair it isn't going to happen. So why fight what he has accomplished. You want to compare Chris Benoit to Hogan or Flair? Let's be honest, as accomplished as Benoit was in the ring, his lasting impact in the business isn't nearly the same...Hogan and Flair were top draws in wrestling for soooo long. Benoit was considered a top guy in a company that didn't really have any competition for only a couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 You want to compare Chris Benoit to Hogan or Flair? Let's be honest, as accomplished as Benoit was in the ring, his lasting impact in the business isn't nearly the same...Hogan and Flair were top draws in wrestling for soooo long. Benoit was considered a top guy in a company that didn't really have any competition for only a couple years. Yeah. When you think about it, there's better ways to make an argument than "Let me compare the guy I'm defending to a known murderer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 So according to you.... Iron Sheik dropped the title to....nobody....Andre The Giant put over an invisible man at Wrestlemania 3....Andre won the title from nobody only to have it vacated the same night....Yokuzuna beat bret Hart at Wrestlemania just to lose it to nobody again.....and then beat that nobody at King of The Ring in 93. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were the only founding members of the NWO. NWO come to WWE and nobody wrestles in the main event against the Rock. I could go all day but I think you get the point. Correct. I'd rather have all that history forgotten about than to honor a racist for accomplishments he did in a sport I love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 For the record, while I understand WWE's reaction, I don' t want to leave the impression that this hurts my enjoyment of his work. I'm quite sure most of the athletes and entertainers I enjoy are awful people. I stand with Charles Barkley on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 For the record, while I understand WWE's reaction, I don' t want to leave the impression that this hurts my enjoyment of his work. I'm quite sure most of the athletes and entertainers I enjoy are awful people. I stand with Charles Barkley on the issue. It absolutely impacts my enjoyment of his work, although my view of Hogan has been tarnished for a while now due to his past several decades of behavior offscreen. Hulk Hogan the character is supposed to be the Real American. That gimmick doesn't work so well when the man portraying it represents a side of America that was better left behind in the previous century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 It absolutely impacts my enjoyment of his work, although my view of Hogan has been tarnished for a while now due to his past several decades of behavior offscreen. Hulk Hogan the character is supposed to be the Real American. That gimmick doesn't work so well when the man portraying it represents a side of America that was better left behind in the previous century. Also a perfectly reasonable stance, I hear you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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