The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Teh_Showtime]

The storyline is interesting, but Bret vs. Vince is going to be awful in the ring. Bret can't even throw a punch or walk without wobbling anymore. Yes yes, I know, he had a stroke, it's amazing he can still get in the ring, what do you expect from an old man, etc. WWE made the decision to put this on knowing all of that, and I think it's just going to be ugly.

they should have represenctives for each of them. Tyson Kidd/DH smith vs Shane if he wants to come back to the ring or someone else

[Dragonmack]

they should have represenctives for each of them. Tyson Kidd/DH smith vs Shane if he wants to come back to the ring or someone else

 

Even if they have a tag match, or representatives, this feud doesn't end until Bret has Vince tapping in a sharpshooter in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm not going to make a huge deal out of it, but the idea of being 'Americanized' is just incredibly stupid to me.

 

Obviously people who grow up in different countries have different cultures, but only in a few ethnicities is it seen as a stigma to be 'more American' than what is considered 'typical.'

 

Saying that Chavo wouldn't be believable acting a certain way plays into a stereotype. Which, in wrestling, isn't a big deal (or more exactly, it happens so often you sort of get used to it). But it does bother me to hear about this idea of what it means to be 'Americanized.'

 

So is Chavo not an All-Mexican Mexican? What would make him more Mexican? What qualities would he need to show on screen that would make him a more believable Mexican?

 

When people answer those questions, more often than not, it's about stereotype.

 

I don't think your post was offensive, but the entire concept is bad news.

 

When you define someone like Chavo culturally by what he isn't (he doesn't act very Mexican) then by default you are also defining what it means to be

Mexican. And by definiing that identity within such strict parameters, you limit that culture as a whole.

 

I could go on, but it touches on much greater issues in entertainment today.

 

It agitates me, it's like saying "He's not like the other ones". I know that's not the way he probably meant it to sound, but that's how it sounded. It's like the guy that says "I'm not prejudice, I have lots of Black/Mexican/Oriental friends", and in reality they are just people he personally knows. "That's my Mexican friend, he's cool, he's not like most Mexicans!", "He's more Americanized!" Canada and Mexico is both "America" but whatever.

 

You can substitute Mexican for whatever, but you get my point.

 

Ampulator, I'm not trying to pick on you at all, you said it was a "Friends" way of putting it. I'd bet they would have answered a bit differently then you did. I have aquaintenance's like that as well, as most people do. On a board like this though, it's nice not to have to worry about it, or should I say put up with it.

 

Stennick, I knew that.

 

Dragonmack, I can't see them not have Bret put him in the sharp shooter. I would be very surprised if that doesn't happen, especially after teasing it already.

[CQI13]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I would consider myself "Americanized." With the exception of following the national team of the country I was born, I have 0 attachment to it at this time. I've moved on. The US has given me a better life than I would have ever had elsewhere. Even before I became a citizen, if someone asked me, I would say I was American.

 

On the subject of the WWE, hopefully it all ends with Bret putting Vince in the sharpshooter, or it will have been a wasted 4 months.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The storyline is interesting, but Bret vs. Vince is going to be awful in the ring. Bret can't even throw a punch or walk without wobbling anymore. Yes yes, I know, he had a stroke, it's amazing he can still get in the ring, what do you expect from an old man, etc. WWE made the decision to put this on knowing all of that, and I think it's just going to be ugly.

 

I think this can be one time we can not worry about the quality of the match, WWE clearly made this for the hype and the payoff. Of course it's gonna be ugly, no one expects better and they're gonna try to cover the handicaps as much as possible, so we should be able to give them credit on whatever they end up pulling off.

 

Bret's punches looked awesome last week, it's like he took a page out of a hockey player. Canada represent.

[James Casey]

Did anyone else think Cena sounded very Southern last night? Borderline Cajun, almost.

[Bigpapa42]

Did anyone else think Cena sounded very Southern last night? Borderline Cajun, almost.

 

No, you definitely were not the only one. He was definitely trying to do an accept. No clue why.

[Tag01]

A Bret vs. Vince match won't be on the card because it will be a five star match. It will be on the card simply for the appeal of seeing Bret in a WWE ring again.

 

My point is that won't make it any less painful to watch.

[CQI13]

No, you definitely were not the only one. He was definitely trying to do an accept. No clue why.

 

Maybe as a tribute to the New Orleans Saints winning the Super Bowl? If not that, not quite sure.

[rd_dbacks01]

Maybe as a tribute to the New Orleans Saints winning the Super Bowl? If not that, not quite sure.

 

Isn't he filming or just filmed a movie in New Orleans? Maybe they are already trying to hype it.

[Slagaholic]

Isn't he filming or just filmed a movie in New Orleans? Maybe they are already trying to hype it.

 

If he uses that accent in the film he'll never live it down.

[jesterx7769]

I actually liked Carl Edwards as the guest host and liked that they actually involved him unlike when Schatner (sp?) was on.

[PeterHilton]

Peter there are very few guys I just always agree with and you seem to be one of them man. Once again I couldn't have said that any better myself.

 

Thanks. Ditto.

 

It agitates me, it's like saying "He's not like the other ones". I know that's not the way he probably meant it to sound, but that's how it sounded. It's like the guy that says "I'm not prejudice, I have lots of Black/Mexican/Oriental friends", and in reality they are just people he personally knows. "That's my Mexican friend, he's cool, he's not like most Mexicans!", "He's more Americanized!" Canada and Mexico is both "America" but whatever.

 

You can substitute Mexican for whatever, but you get my point.

 

Ampulator, I'm not trying to pick on you at all, you said it was a "Friends" way of putting it. I'd bet they would have answered a bit differently then you did. I have aquaintenance's like that as well, as most people do. On a board like this though, it's nice not to have to worry about it, or should I say put up with it.

 

 

I honestly don't think amp said anything wrong. Like I said, i just dislike the concept. I don't know what amp's background is so his perspective and experiences may be very different than mine. Plus, it's always a decent conversation to have as long as it's done thoughtfully

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

To me, Bret is being thrown out there AS a "Weak" opponant so that it looks like Vince can handle him. To me, it seems to be working, at least reading posts that say "He looked horrible in there. It's going to be an embarressment!" etc. WWE has, in my opinion, made marks out of all these people making comments such as this. It was VERY obvious that Bret is alot stronger then what they are making him out to be, and he still has ring psychology, because alot of folks are buying into it... "One hit by Batista, and he was through!" That's how it's supposed to look, right now... WWE is in my opinion "Getting one over" on quite a few people that "think" they know what's going on.

 

I was referring more to him struggling to pull down that gimmicked electrical box, losing his balance, falling and having the pyro explode on him than anything else. I'm worried he's going to look as feeble as Jimmy Snuka did last year at WrestleMania, and that would be a sorry way for him to go out. Really hope that Batista and Cena get added as tag team partners for his sake.

[ampulator]

I think Mark Henry does fine on the mic as well, for promo's or whatever. The raps that they come up with every now and then are never "great", but the person doing it can sound good or bad depending on certain things.

 

Henry just didn't rap it right. He bassically was just "saying" a rap, as if it were a promo. It was NOT on beat, which made the whole thing feel uncomfortable to me, as I was expecting a rap, not just talking. He probably didn't have a good enough time to "practice". I believe if MVP would have said the same rap, and actually rapped it, it would have "sounded" alot better.

 

There are rapper's out right now that have worse rhymes then what Mark Henry did, yet are able to make them sound great.... Little Wayne rhymes words that don't rhyme, by pretending like that's just the way he speaks, for example.

 

I want to add Mark Henry is one of those "big men" that look more big than menacing, and more defensive than offensive. He doesn't make the best heel. He's okay, but as a face, his mic work comes out best. I thought the sexual chocolate gimmick was stupid, but I can't say he didn't learn how to work a mic.

 

What really demasculinized him for me was when D'Lo Brown did a dieting angle with Mark Henry. It sort of made sense. But it made Mark Look weak and subservient.

 

On the rap itself, why didn't the have MVP do it instead? I can see at least not cringing me.

 

On a related note, would considered Mark Henry to have a lower "Acting" Skill in TEW terms?

[HughBatey4]

My point is that won't make it any less painful to watch.

 

Does anyone remember the PWI Match of the Year that HBK pulled out of Vince?

 

Sure, Bret is a shell of himsefl, but considering it will mainly be a brawl, it will work. Also, all the rumors that I have seen is if Creative lacks faith in either of them to do a singles, than it will be changed to a tag with Cena and Batista involved.

[jesterx7769]

The problem with Mark Henry for me is he just looks fat now, maybe its just because he's been on tv so long but when i see him I no longer think world strongest man, I see someone who should be on the biggest loser, hes just so slower and hes just...there, and has just been...there, for years.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't know what I would rate Mark Henry's acting at, as I'm torn a bit. I really thought he done great when he was coming after Batista/Rey back when they were tag team partners. I don't know if I like him more as a heel or a face to be honest.

 

I do know, that I agree with quite a few people about him looking like a big 'ole teddy bear. My wife calls him her baby, when he shows up. Always thinks he looks like he needs a hug from his momma, and that's someone that don't like to watch, nor does she put in any effort at all to keep up with who is supposed to be good/bad. That's how she seen him from the start. She does however, remember him from back in the day pulling those trucks and stuff (Worlds Strongest Man competitions).

 

The fact that he is a nice guy from many people descriptions of him at place's like the "Arnold Classic" etc. doesn't really help a "Heel" personality from him, but I do think he comes accross pretty good as a heel when he does. The problem might be in more of his moveset moreso then his promo's, etc. They give him moves you would think a big 'ole Teddy Bear would do (Bear Hug for example). Perhaps they need to give him a moveset closer to Batista's? Not a huge jump, but when they have Batista on a roll, and Batista is running with it, he comes off pretty strong and menacing (weather face or heel). I think trying to look big and menacing while gripping someones shoulder while they are bassically sitting there on the mat, or giving them a big old Bear Hug (when they are essentially the same height as you) just doesn't come accross very menacing these days. Perhaps Iron Sheik's finisher or something would come accross more in the way they are trying for?

[djthefunkchris]

I was referring more to him struggling to pull down that gimmicked electrical box, losing his balance, falling and having the pyro explode on him than anything else. I'm worried he's going to look as feeble as Jimmy Snuka did last year at WrestleMania, and that would be a sorry way for him to go out. Really hope that Batista and Cena get added as tag team partners for his sake.

 

I didn't get to see the whole show, just what I could find on WWE.com and youtube, so all I'm really going by is the stuff in the ring where Batista come out and Vince spit on him, etc. He was about to put Vince in the Sharp Shooter, and the punch's before that looked good IMO. He didn't look "rusty" at all to me. However, when Batista come out, he immediately sold everything Batista did, and that's the only time he looked feeble at all to me. Which makes me believe that was "part" of the deal there. I could be just wishfull thinking, but I looked at that over and over, and that's the impression I had from it.

[ampulator]

I don't know what I would rate Mark Henry's acting at, as I'm torn a bit. I really thought he done great when he was coming after Batista/Rey back when they were tag team partners. I don't know if I like him more as a heel or a face to be honest.

 

I do know, that I agree with quite a few people about him looking like a big 'ole teddy bear. My wife calls him her baby, when he shows up. Always thinks he looks like he needs a hug from his momma, and that's someone that don't like to watch, nor does she put in any effort at all to keep up with who is supposed to be good/bad. That's how she seen him from the start. She does however, remember him from back in the day pulling those trucks and stuff (Worlds Strongest Man competitions).

 

The fact that he is a nice guy from many people descriptions of him at place's like the "Arnold Classic" etc. doesn't really help a "Heel" personality from him, but I do think he comes accross pretty good as a heel when he does. The problem might be in more of his moveset moreso then his promo's, etc. They give him moves you would think a big 'ole Teddy Bear would do (Bear Hug for example). Perhaps they need to give him a moveset closer to Batista's? Not a huge jump, but when they have Batista on a roll, and Batista is running with it, he comes off pretty strong and menacing (weather face or heel). I think trying to look big and menacing while gripping someones shoulder while they are bassically sitting there on the mat, or giving them a big old Bear Hug (when they are essentially the same height as you) just doesn't come accross very menacing these days. Perhaps Iron Sheik's finisher or something would come accross more in the way they are trying for?

 

Well, not every big man always have A* menace. I think Big Show can be a Monster Heel. Batista can do it as well. They don't allow them to do it, because it... *gasp* gets people to CHEER them. You know, because that's so much worse than than them chanting "BORING" or "YOU BOTH SUCK".

 

Mark Henry just doesn't have that mean streak in him.

 

Sometimes I just don't understand WWE's booking. For example, having Randy Orton attack the McMahon's is NOT going to get the fans to boo Randy Orton. They don't like the McMahon's, except Shane. They literally thought Randy Orton putting people would get him a lot of heel, but instead, it got him pops instead. They pretty much ended the Punt storyline after John Cena no-sold a punt. I also why Randy Orton talks so robotic now. He used to have more of an edge in his voice, but he was probably getting pops.

[djthefunkchris]

Well, not every big man always have A* menace. I think Big Show can be a Monster Heel. Batista can do it as well. They don't allow them to do it, because it... *gasp* gets people to CHEER them. You know, because that's so much worse than than them chanting "BORING" or "YOU BOTH SUCK".

 

Mark Henry just doesn't have that mean streak in him.

 

Sometimes I just don't understand WWE's booking. For example, having Randy Orton attack the McMahon's is NOT going to get the fans to boo Randy Orton. They don't like the McMahon's, except Shane. They literally thought Randy Orton putting people would get him a lot of heel, but instead, it got him pops instead. They pretty much ended the Punt storyline after John Cena no-sold a punt. I also why Randy Orton talks so robotic now. He used to have more of an edge in his voice, but he was probably getting pops.

 

No matter what they do (the crowd), if your the "Bad" guy/Heel, and your getting Pops', I would say that your not doing your job very well. Boring and You Both Suck, is a heel reaction by far, when compared to cheering and clapping. Neither is as bad as dead silence (or just rumbling in the crowd that shows they aren't even paying attention) though, which would mean no care by the fans whatsoever.

[ampulator]

I wouldn't say they are a bad heel, because fans are more unpredictable these days. Stuff you MIGHT think they would boo (including smarks) might actually look so good, even to the audience, people just cheer.

 

And I'm firm believer that there is such a thing as "Bad Heat". It's when they are not booing the guy because he's a heel, but booing him because they think he sucks, or to get the hell out of the ring. It's why stuff like "Boring" and "Change the Channel" gets on air. Seriously, this is NOT what you want people watching at home to see.

 

Chris Jericho? Good Heat. Edge? Good Heat. Batista or Big Show in the ECW Arena? Bad Heat.

[Hyde Hill]

X-Pac and in part Vicky come to mind as well. Heels getting cheered for being heels simply happens in today's culture. It's the trick of defining the type of cheer/chant and acting accordingly and is easily remedied see for example Daniels simply cussing out the crowd when he was supposed to be the heel vs Morley (,didn't work in the end as Morley did nothing face worthy so it became heel vs heel and then they will cheer "The Original"). Orton punting Vince = Face cheers, Edge beating Cena up = heel cheers, X-Pac = Get of my screen cheers. And as said before the absolutely worst reaction is no reaction at all.

[James Casey]

Vicky remains one of the WWE's most over heels. I rather like that she only gets one or two minutes a week right now, as it allows her to remain over without her being overexposed.

 

Orton's whole gimmick is that he's incredibly focused on his own goals. Entertaining the crowd, delivering stirring promos and all that aren't what he's there for - he's just a machine.

[Self]

Vickie is awesome. Not the best promo, but the gimmick is fantastic... In short sharp bursts. I can see how some smarks (term used with love) could confuse it with 'go-away-heat' (because she was, you know, interupting the wrestling in a way that made you want her to go away. Intentionally) but X-Pac never got booed anywhere near that loud.

 

... but yes, Orton punting Vince was a gigantic babyface move.