The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hyde Hill]

I would go with Orton going heel again as they don't know how to write for or use a heelish face any more. Still weird to turn anybody heel at this point as the rosters seem quite heel heavy especially RAW.

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How many people watched Episode 2 of Season 3? <p> </p><p> The September 14 edition of NXT, featuring an obstacle course & a Diva Jokeoff, did a 1.01 rating with 1,203,000 viewers.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What has gotten into people? They actually like the long drawn out diva contest? Or was there absolutely nothing else on tv?</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="sabataged" data-cite="sabataged" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> I just think Taker has 2 WMs left in him and 1 will be HHH and the last will be Cena.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth. </p><p> </p><p> I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.</p>

[Johnny Fenoli]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What has gotten into people? They actually like the long drawn out diva contest? Or was there absolutely nothing else on tv?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I enjoyed it.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

No accounting for taste but after last week I thought it would bomb but it has actually gone up?

[sabataged]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth. <p> </p><p> I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I dont see him losing the streak. But that is what the match would sell on.</p>

[Stennick]

<p>He won't lose the streak for two reasons.</p><p> </p><p>

1. The young guys that could benefit a rub from this aren't a sure thing to stick around. What happens if you put Brock over Taker, or Lashley over Taker, or Shelton Benjamin back when he was almost a main eventer against Evolution, or whoever. They pushed Brock as the next best thing, they pushed Lashley gave them both mega pushes only to have them leave. Their gun shy on doing this kind of push with anyone else. Not even the Celtic Warrior has gotten the kind of push Lashley and Lesnar got. </p><p> </p><p>

2. Those guys that DO stick around don't need the rub from beating Taker. Cena would gain nothing, Orton would gain nothing, Edge would gain nothing, etc. </p><p> </p><p>

So there is no advantage to having someone beat Taker. If they have a new guy that they want to push go over him nobody knows if he's going to stick around and they could be watching a guy in TNA or a guy in the UFC walking around with something thats way more important than a title reign. If they have an established guy do it, there isn't any need. They can't get MORE of a rub. </p><p> </p><p>

Taker's never losing at Mania period.</p>

[Comradebot]

<p>Why on earth would the WWE turn Cena? Seriously? Did Vince wake up and say "by golly, we're making too much money... let's make sure Cena's merchandise sales go down!"</p><p> </p><p>

I agree, Triple H is the best candidate. For starters, he's a MUCH better heel than face, indeed during the Monday Night Wars and his initial run into the main event, I'd say he was one of the absolute best heels of all time. Anyone else remember his "wedding" with Stephanie? Great stuff.</p><p> </p><p>

And then you look at it... they JUST turned Orton face a few months ago, and that was a sorta big deal. Then you got Cena who will be a perma-face probably for a decade.</p><p> </p><p>

Trips turning heel would be huge, and could lead to an awesome feud with him and Cena or even Orton.</p>

[SaySo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No accounting for taste but after last week I thought it would bomb but it has actually gone up?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Heel Michael Cole is a draw. And he actually agrees with your statement if you watch his rants on NXT last night. He quit on the show. Twice last night he hit the gong repeatedly and said that this show should be gonged. Apparently the gaydar went off the roof because he was fine the first two season...coincidentally had The Miz on both.</p>

[SaySo]

<p>Source - PWTorch.com </p><p> </p><p>

Last night's episode of WWE NXT scored a basic 0.90 rating and averaged 1.20 million viewers over the course of the show.</p><p> </p><p>

TV viewership was up slightly from last week's 1.15 million viewers for the NXT Season Three premiere.</p><p> </p><p>

Looking at the demographic numbers, NXT was up marginally to a 0.64 rating among males 18-49 compared to a 0.55 rating last week. The demographic rating was down from a 0.66 two weeks ago for the Season Two finale.</p><p> </p><p>

The rating among males 12-17 upticked slightly to a 0.77 rating from a 0.70 rating last week. The demographic rating was a 1.23 for the Season Two finale two weeks ago.</p><p> </p><p>

Caldwell's Analysis: No real significant changes here for WWE's lameduck hour of TV on Tuesday nights. With only two remaining episodes remaining on Syfy, this is likely where the current NXT season will settle into just above 1.00 million viewers.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm pwi where my numbers came from are generally closer to the mark then the Torch imho but nice to have the demographic info. So if Cole really quit then nxt will bomb for the final two episodes? Not that it will matter much.

[Candyman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth. <p> </p><p> I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well the thing is, if he does lose it, it has to be to Cena. There's nobody else you could consider, honestly.</p><p> </p><p> It can't be a next big thing type, because who knows if they're going to fizzle out or go to MMA or anything like that. There's no reason to give it to anybody you know won't bomb afterwards...those guys don't gain enough from it. The one and only exception to that, however, is Cena. Cena is the only guy that has a chance to go beyond just a main eventer. He has a chance to be the next Hogan/Austin/Rock. But it takes something special to get you there.</p><p> </p><p> I laugh at the people who say Cena has nothing to gain. Did Hogan have nothing to gain when he bodyslammed and pinned Andre? Did Rock have nothing to gain when he wrestled Hogan and beat him? That's what Cena would gain. That moment...the moment when Cena gives Undertaker the Attitude Adjustment and pins him at Wrestlemania, ending his streak...would stick with Cena for the rest of his career. It'd be celebrated and talked about for as long as the WWE is open. That'd take him from Triple H main eventer to Hulk Hogan main eventer. That's why it has to be him, if anybody does it.</p>

[SaySo]

<p>The best segment of last night show besides Vickie getting a bit jealous off of her rookie Kaitlynn (Celeste Bonin) after the rook celebrated with IC Champion Dolph Ziggler at the end of their match. </p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czqdcYsSh0" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czqdcYsSh0</a></p><p> </p><p>

*I agree with Candyman. It would make perfect sense for Cena to do it. Especially if he's going to turn heel in the process. I believe Cena will cheat his way to victory and robbing the UnderTaker of the streak. It will be his Andre bodyslam moment. Or Montreal Screwjob. Especially they could play into the fact that his Hollywood career hasn't drawn and he blames the fans for not paying to watch him. Now he's going to stick into wrestling and ruin the dreams of many watching at home and people in the back.</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Candyman" data-cite="Candyman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well the thing is, if he does lose it, it has to be to Cena. There's nobody else you could consider, honestly.<p> </p><p> I laugh at the people who say Cena has nothing to gain.<strong> Did Hogan have nothing to gain when he bodyslammed and pinned Andre? Did Rock have nothing to gain when he wrestled Hogan and beat him?</strong> That's what Cena would gain. That moment...the moment when Cena gives Undertaker the Attitude Adjustment and pins him at Wrestlemania, ending his streak...would stick with Cena for the rest of his career. It'd be celebrated and talked about for as long as the WWE is open. That'd take him from Triple H main eventer to Hulk Hogan main eventer. That's why it has to be him, if anybody does it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hogan was already the biggest star in the world, main eventing with Mr. T, etc. It was an iconic moment and it drew big business thats what they gained. Was putting 90,000 butts in the seats. </p><p> </p><p> Taker vs. Cena is not going to put any more butts in the seats than Taker vs. Shawn Michaels did. Its not going to draw more than that did, so really no Cena would have nothing to gain by beating Taker. Cena pinning the Undertaker at Wrestlemania isn't going to increase ratings, buys or anything. It won't do a single thing for business in the WWE because it takes more than one match (no matter who and when in time it was put on) to turn business to an upswing. Hogan vs. Flair didn't defeat the WWE did it? Andre vs. Hogan was forgotten a year later with their Wrestlmania IV being countered by free t.v. Honestly if WCW put on the Clash during Wrestlemania III do you think people wouldn't have bought it and watched the Clash? To coin a phrase </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="150" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Pd7AZB7Uobw?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Emotional Ric Flair Promo"></iframe></div></div>. People woudln't have even known the Clash was on. So less than a year after the most iconic match in history and the WWF was beat out by a free television show. A year earlier that would have NEVER happened. Thus proving that in the long term that match did nothing for business. <p> </p><p> What did Rock gain by beating Hogan at Wrestlemania? That was Wrestlemania 18. Do you know how many wrestling matches the Rock has had since then? 33 matches, I just counted them, including house shows the Rock wrestled in 33 matches, he wrestled in 7 more months since then, and he wrestled on SIX more pay per views after defeating Hulk Hogan. Thats it, thats all he did the rest of his career. So yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say beating Hulk Hogan did absolutely nothing for Hogan or The Rock other than have a moment (that they can't even talk about because The Rock isn't with them and neither is Hogan. One's in Hollywood making more money in one film than he did all year long in the WWE. The other is on their rival's television show every week). </p><p> </p><p> So look at that Hogan's gone to TNA, Austin's retired trying to be a Hollywood star, The Rock IS a Hollywood star, Brock is in the UFC, Lashley is doing whatever Lashley does. ALL of these men were given "Iconic" matches. Brock vs. Hogan, Brock vs. Rock, Brock vs. Angle, etc. on big pay per views Summer Slam, Wrestlemania, etc. Lashley got Donald Trump and feuded with Vince McMahon an honor that outside of DX and Steve Austin nobody had ever been given. </p><p> </p><p> So again if history tells us anything this "big match" is just that a big match. And with Cena's fragile fan base the way it is the last thing you want him to do is match up against Taker's streak and bring the boo birds out again.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> So again if history tells us anything this "big match" is just that a big match. And with Cena's fragile fan base the way it is the last thing you want him to do is match up against Taker's streak and bring the boo birds out again.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Actually, if it was me, that's EXACTLY what I'd do: keep Cena face, match him against Taker, and then let the naturally split crowd create the heat during the match...sorta like the way the crowd was in Houston for Rock vs Austin at WMX7 (?)..</p><p> </p><p> The way the character is, Cena and Taker in a title vs title match wouldn't need a turn (Cena could talk about the challenge, honoring the fans, all that Tim Tebow crap) so why do it? </p><p> </p><p> Make it about the belts, make it about the streak, let the fans pick their favorite, and watch the crowd go white hot w/o doing much of anything</p>

[ampulator]

I agree that Cena won't turn heel, but I disagree that he shouldn't. He should. They will take a hit, but anytime you change something, you always take a hit in the process. That being said, placing Cena against the Undertaker is a bad idea. Cena's fanbase is a mile wide, but an inch deep. Undertaker's support is just as wide, but also deeper.

[Stennick]

There is a difference in taking a hit and what they would do if Cena turned heel. He is by FAR their biggest merchandise seller and he's the franchise face of the company.

 

The WWF has never and will never turn their biggest merch sellers heel. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, three generations all the same thing in common. Face of the company, top draw, merchandise monsters. None of them turned heel except Austin and he did it well after his primary running days were over with.

 

Who is going to replace Cena on top? Orton, Randy is not the "face of the company". He's not the kissing baby, white meat, smiling babyface they need on top with their current product and sponsors.

 

Would Cena turning heel make more money? Who knows, its not worth the risk. A guy like Cena comes along once in a generation why put the next five years of crazy money on hold so you can run a program with him as a heel. What happens if he can't play a heel in the current envirement. The only time he's played a heel was when he was a rapper and even that was what? A year tops that he was heel. That was seven years ago, there is no evidence John has the ability to play a heel and its not worth the risk. If he turns and it bombs and you turn him back he may be ruined forever. He might not ever draw the money he's drawing now.

 

Cena's turn will come when there is no more money to be made, or when they start to decline enough to where a turn would maybe spark some money. Other than that it doesn't make financial sense to turn John Cena. As much as people want to see it (I have no idea why other than their tired of babyface Cena) it doesn't make you any money, after he wrestles Randy Orton then who does he face? Where are the big money match ups at? Orton is the only other guy that is close as a big of a face as him and after you run that program (the same program you just ran opposite for a year) what do you do then? There isn't a strong enough babyface out there to take up Cena's money mantle.

[ampulator]

There is a difference in taking a hit and what they would do if Cena turned heel. He is by FAR their biggest merchandise seller and he's the franchise face of the company.

 

The WWF has never and will never turn their biggest merch sellers heel. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, three generations all the same thing in common. Face of the company, top draw, merchandise monsters. None of them turned heel except Austin and he did it well after his primary running days were over with.

 

Who is going to replace Cena on top? Orton, Randy is not the "face of the company". He's not the kissing baby, white meat, smiling babyface they need on top with their current product and sponsors.

 

Would Cena turning heel make more money? Who knows, its not worth the risk. A guy like Cena comes along once in a generation why put the next five years of crazy money on hold so you can run a program with him as a heel. What happens if he can't play a heel in the current envirement. The only time he's played a heel was when he was a rapper and even that was what? A year tops that he was heel. That was seven years ago, there is no evidence John has the ability to play a heel and its not worth the risk. If he turns and it bombs and you turn him back he may be ruined forever. He might not ever draw the money he's drawing now.

 

Cena's turn will come when there is no more money to be made, or when they start to decline enough to where a turn would maybe spark some money. Other than that it doesn't make financial sense to turn John Cena. As much as people want to see it (I have no idea why other than their tired of babyface Cena) it doesn't make you any money, after he wrestles Randy Orton then who does he face? Where are the big money match ups at? Orton is the only other guy that is close as a big of a face as him and after you run that program (the same program you just ran opposite for a year) what do you do then? There isn't a strong enough babyface out there to take up Cena's money mantle.

I agree that they won't because of money, but the problem isn't really is alignment/disposition. It's his gimmick/character. If he's overdue for a alignment/disposition change, he's definitely even more overdue for a gimmick/character change.

 

Any comparisons to Austin or the Rock isn't really there. Comparison's to Hogan? Yes. Absolutely yes. Comparisons to the Rock or Austin, as he currently is? Heck no.

 

But they won't. And that's where it will stand.

[Moe Hunter]

A couple of quick comments on the latest discussions:

 

1. As for trending topics on Twitter, #RandyOrton seems to pop up quite often, especially after he hit the AiRKO on Bourne a couple of months back.

 

2. The "News" of a potential big star turn leading through WM is about the most vague thing anyone could possibly post as an article. Gee, I wonder if maybe they'll put a title on the line at some stage too?

 

 

But what I really want to talk about... Penn & Teller! They managed to still be good on Muppets Tonight, hopefully Raw won't tone them down too much!

[Prophet]

I worship at the altar that is Penn & Teller. Those two make anything great. I watched Shaq Vs. to see them. lol I even picked up Showtime to watch their critically acclaimed Bull ... hockey! Great show, by the by.

 

I kind of hope they're given some time to do stuff, while still being themselves. Even if it's "simple" tricks, they do it with such flair, it'll probably be better than the rest of the show. lol

[SaySo]

If Cena doesn't turn heel, then the next possible individual is Triple H. Triple H hasn't been heel since 2005, early 2006. If it is a big name, then it's obviously him due to the duration as face.

[SaySo]

- 6-foot-9 Diva Aloisia announced today that she was released from WWE and will be looking for independent bookings shortly.

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That won't be for long if true. And why do most get fired if they do pictures or have done them and others do not? Maryse and Kim (Topless).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>According to PWInsider.com, Lindsay Hayward, the 6-9, 240-pound woman given the name Aloisia for the third season of NXT, was actually dropped from the program due to erotic photos WWE officials uncovered of the giant grappler shortly after her television premiere last Tuesday.<p> </p><p> The reported reason of Hayward being pulled from the program due to being deemed 'not ready' is said to be a cover excuse.</p><p> </p><p> A set of photographs labeled "Tall Amazons Erotica" depict Hayward in a manner unbecoming to World Wrestling Entertainment's family friendly product. A number of the shots feature Aloisia positioned erotically, including nude. There are also images of the she-giant engaging pleasantries with a petite blonde woman.</p><p> </p><p> The storyline reason given for Hayward's hastily dismissal from NXT was that Aloisia had been fired by her Pro, Vickie Guerrero, after an argument over her influence. Guerrero will reveal her new Rookie Diva during tonight's season 3 premiere.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Hayward currently remains under contract to WWE</strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That won't be for long if true. And why do most get fired if they do pictures or have done them and others do not? Maryse and Kim (Topless).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> called it hehe.</p>

[ewanite]

Apparently the difference is that Aloisia was an escort.

[ampulator]

That's damning. I'm not even sure WWE wants to go there.