The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Stennick]

Yeah all of those names were former World Champions by the time Taker did a job to them. The only guy in recent memory that I can think of that Taker jobbed to clean was Khali.

[Fantabulous]

Even rarer are Undertaker's clean losses on TV.

[Slim Jim]

How often does Taker even wrestle on TV?

 

Take any top WWE face and count clean PPV losses. It isn't a Taker thing; might stand out more since he misses just about half the PPVs a year. Also, despite them not being "clean" losses, his programs with Edge, Orton and JBL did a lot for them. JBL picked up a string of wins over him, in fact, and they were fitting for his cowardly cunning heel character so probably did more for establishing him than a clean victory would have.

 

Guys that aren't former champions rarely get the chance to even feud with Undertaker because as a special attraction, he normally gets paired with bigger names... and that's probably down to them wanting to feud with him because of him being him. He's the guy that puts people over the top, from just being a part of the main event to being the Main Event.

[Hulkamaniac85]

For me, someone has to end the streak. Idk who it will be, i keep going back and forth on it, between someone who is extremely established, and someone who is rising up the ranks, but for me it has to be done. There's nothing about Undertaker's legacy (the streak in this case) that is more sacred than anyone else's in the business (not that it would do any harm for the Undertaker's legacy as a whole to lose anyways, I think it would actually only enhance it, especially if say he fought Cena, loss clean to the face of the WWE, and then went out with a show of respect, again, just one idea, im not endorsing that).

 

We saw HBK do the job to Undertaker @ Wrestlemania, an event the man was a LEGEND at, we've seen Hogan do the job at Wrestlemania (and you have to admit, without Hogan there probably wouldn't be a Wrestlemania to watch, cause he wouldn't have been around to Main Event the first 9 of them! Along with a lot of other people of course) But yeah, it's always been that nothing is sacred when it comes to wrestling. Especially wins and losses.

 

Undertaker losing at Wrestlemania can be 1 of 2 things. A) Passing of the torch to whoever the WWE wants to push as it's next MEGA STAR or B) A good clean fight with an established star/legend (The Rock would be the top pick for me, could you imagine a match between them, with The Rock getting the win to end the streak??! EPIC!) Now that won't ever happen because he isn't coming back to the WWE, and they won't use the streak to put over someone who isn't sticking around, but the one time excitement would be almost unparalleled in wrestling history I would think.

 

Another way i kind of look at it (sorry I am rambling) but to me it would be more about putting over WRESTLEMANIA, than putting over whoever beats him. I mean for the last 10-14 years you've been able to mark the Undertaker down for an auto win at the event, which kind of takes away from the notion, this is the superbowl of wrestling, anything can happen...Idk, just my 2 cents. Haha I am sure I am in the minority on the subject. Good discussion though!

[djthefunkchris]

How often does Taker even wrestle on TV?

 

Take any top WWE face and count clean PPV losses. It isn't a Taker thing; might stand out more since he misses just about half the PPVs a year. Also, despite them not being "clean" losses, his programs with Edge, Orton and JBL did a lot for them. JBL picked up a string of wins over him, in fact, and they were fitting for his cowardly cunning heel character so probably did more for establishing him than a clean victory would have.

 

Guys that aren't former champions rarely get the chance to even feud with Undertaker because as a special attraction, he normally gets paired with bigger names... and that's probably down to them wanting to feud with him because of him being him. He's the guy that puts people over the top, from just being a part of the main event to being the Main Event.

 

Coming full circle to the point I was trying to make earlier that Peter called me on. I DO dissagree with him on this matter, but I honestly can't remember dissagreeing with him on this level ever before, lol. I ussually agree fully, and have not posted in the past on things he brought up that was exactly what I wanted to bring up (and more then likely not as elequantly as he puts things).

 

In my opinion, Feuding and WINNING CLEAN in any PPV with Undertaker, will enhance a character IF done properly. However, if you take the Miz and put him up against Undertaker and he beats the "Streak", I really don't see anyone taking it seriously. I wouldn't... I would say, "Wow, I like Miz and all, but not like that." It's just way too early for anyone that would potentially gain anything great from it... This is an opinion though, they could do this exact thing and propel the Miz into Superstardom selling out PPV's on his name alone... I in no way can see the future. My opinion is based on what I believe though, and I would actually bet real money that it just wouldn't work out half as good as a solid fued with the same result, that didn't end the streak (with the Miz, Shaemus, or any other UpperMid/almost Main Eventer).

 

I don't even see Kane getting anything out of this really. I always felt that Kane could take over as soon as Undertaker retired anyways. I've always felt that they use him to get other's over, and as a standby Main Event "Just in Case" as he could step right in without a problem and beat the Heck out of just about anyone, if not anyone on the card, and people wouldn't go "No way", they wouldn't have a problem with it at all, obviously (as we are seeing now).

 

Miz, Morrison, Sheamus, MVP, etc... these are all future stars that can evolve naturally by getting over people that aren't as "Legendary". People like Punk, Jericho, etc.. that have been dabbling outside of the Main Event (Jericho untill recently), are just as able to fill in the Main Event scene. Punk's not quite at Jericho level in ability to Draw, but I believe he will get there, and is quite impressive in much the same way as Jericho in every other way.

 

You can't rely on someone that doesn't "Draw" on "Drawing" because they killed a legend... One match isn't going to change things that drastically, and can potentially just tick off alot of people, making him even less of a draw.

[Stennick]

FThere's nothing about Undertaker's legacy (the streak in this case) that is more sacred than anyone else's in the business (not that it would do any harm for the Undertaker's legacy as a whole to lose anyways, I think it would actually only enhance it, especially if say he fought Cena, loss clean to the face of the WWE, and then went out with a show of respect, again, just one idea, im not endorsing that).

 

Nobody in wrestling has anything that comes close to comparing to being undefeated an an event for nearly two decades worth of matches now. Name me one "legacy" that even remotely compares to Taker's Mania streak. Name me one thing that the WWE has hyped and created more of a mythical aura around than this streak.

 

We saw HBK do the job to Undertaker @ Wrestlemania, an event the man was a LEGEND at

 

Shawn became a legend at this even for putting on the best show of the night. I hate to break it to you but everyone seems to have beaten Shawn at Wrestlemania. Shawn lost to the Twin Towers at V, to the Orient Express at VI, Tatanka beat him at IX, Diesel beat him at X and XI, Austin beat him at 14, he lost to Benoit at XX, he lost to Kurt Angle at XXI, he lost to Cena at 23 and then lost to Taker twice. So He's lost at NINE Wrestlemania's and only won at what FOUR wrestlemania's? When he refers to himself as Mr. Wrestlemania its the fact that he puts on the best match of the night. So yes Shawn jobs all the time at Wrestlemania thats got nothing to do with anything.

 

The only time Hogan has been pinned at Wrestlemania is by The Rock at X8 who just happened to be the biggest wrestler on the planet at the time with a summer blockbuster set to hit theaters later that summer.

 

Tons of things are sacred when it comes to pro wrestling. Ric Flair was NWA Champion constantly. He lost the title to Ronnie Garvin just so he could win it back at Starrcade. You can count on one hand how many times Hulk Hogan lost period in a span of about ten years.

 

Undertaker losing at Wrestlemania can be 1 of 2 things. A) Passing of the torch to whoever the WWE wants to push as it's next MEGA STAR or B) A good clean fight with an established star/legend (The Rock would be the top pick for me, could you imagine a match between them, with The Rock getting the win to end the streak??! EPIC!) Now that won't ever happen because he isn't coming back to the WWE, and they won't use the streak to put over someone who isn't sticking around, but the one time excitement would be almost unparalleled in wrestling history I would think.

 

Yeah The Rock coming back would be great but again thats sort of a pointless statement since you yourself just said that would be a very pointless thing to do. Now The Rock coming back and jobbing to Taker at Mania would do huge business for the WWE although thats not happening.

 

Another way i kind of look at it (sorry I am rambling) but to me it would be more about putting over WRESTLEMANIA, than putting over whoever beats him. I mean for the last 10-14 years you've been able to mark the Undertaker down for an auto win at the event, which kind of takes away from the notion, this is the superbowl of wrestling, anything can happen...Idk, just my 2 cents. Haha I am sure I am in the minority on the subject. Good discussion though!

 

I get that its just your opinion but my stance is who do you employ with this power of being the only man to beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania? Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Mr. Anderson, and the list goes on of guys that were supposed to be the future of pro wrestling they were in line for the biggest pushes of their careers and ALL of them in one form or another screwed it all up. How can you give somebody something as big as Taker's streak and KNOW their going to stick around? You can't. Its not like putting the World Title on them. You do that, they want to leave, you job them out horribly the next night and in a year their a footnote in history. Giving someone's Taker's streak means their going to be talked about every year until the end of the time at Wrestlemania. It means that everytime the Undertaker is brought up their name could be brought up. Who do you trust with something like that? The answer nobody because its not needed. If the WWE's business depended on making somebody new a superstar and giving them the Taker's streak was that way then fine but the truth is it doesn't and it won't so giving someone something that will be talked about throughout the history of this company is absurd and shouldn't happen.

 

Again I say Undertaker's 19-0 shirts at Wrestlemania or whatever it would be would move more merchandise and make more money for the company than you can imagine. This isn't the Superbowl and this isn't the UFC, we want to feel like anything CAN happen but the truth is anything SHOULDN'T happen. Taka could have beaten Triple H on Raw ten years ago for the WWE World Title because anything can happen it doesn't mean it should happen.

 

The one thing the WWE has over sports in general is the feeling of unpredictability while still having complete control over the outcome. Its the best of both worlds and so "anything can happen" should be displayed in countless other ways and it is but it shouldn't be displayed just for the sake of displaying it.

[Basmat01]

Although I rather the Taker not lose the streak.

 

If he WAS to lose it you would think it would be to someone that would lead the WWE for the next 10 years or so. Not lose it to someone who could not be around in a year or 2. the WWE has put alot of effort into guys that got them no-where

 

Had Brock Lesnar stayed he would of taken the streak.

[wilts]

Personally I think for the sake of business, Taker has to retire after losing his streak. Once he is retired the streak does no good for business, but having him lose it will give a big boost to whoever takes it, no doubt about that, and here is what I would do with it.

 

Building up to Mania I would have Miz get into a bitter feud with John Morrisson (sp?), and I mean a bitter feud. So much so that Miz never has the opportunity, or even forgets to cash in the MITB contract.

 

At the start of Mania I would have the announce team really hyping the fact that Miz has not cashed in the MITB contract, and now can not do so. Have Miz come down to ringside as they are talking about it, make it seem impromptu, then have him rant and rave about how he has the right to cash in the contract.

 

VKM or someone then comes out, tells Miz that the contract is now null and void.

 

Miz then has a brutal match with JM, which he wins but is badly injured.

 

Miz then jumps one of the MITB participants on the way to the ring and takes their place, ala Edge and Kofi in the Elimination Chamber.

 

By some miracle the Miz wins MITB for the second year running.

 

The main event for the night would be Taker vs someone, preferably Kane but I'm not sure if the story will last that long. Taker goes into the match as champion, so the hype from Kane is that he will win the title and end his brothers streak. Also have Taker say that if he loses his streak then he will retire. Have the match go back and forth, with Taker eventually winning.

 

As Taker is celebrating the Miz attacks, and gets the pin.

 

Ding ding ding, we have a new champion, and Miz has ended Takers streak.

 

The gains from this;

-Miz gets elevated and is champ. By default JM also ends up in a main event feud over the title due to their existing feud continuing. Surely the IWC would mark out for this...

 

-We get all the build going into Mania of Taker possibly losing the title, the streak and his career. This could be an epic build with Taker vs Kane.

 

-Miz now gets to brag that he won 3 matches in one night at Mania, he is the champ, he ended the streak and ended Takers career. Talk about a feather in the cap...

 

-Forgive me if I am wrong, but is Miz not "undefeated" at Mania, with a streak of 1-0? Have him claim Takers streak and start saying that he is 20-0 (or whatever it is that Taker is), each year he then builds on that with typical heelish cheating. This could then build to another huge match years down the line.

 

Personally I think this could put Miz over as the No.1 heel in the 'E.

 

That's about it, not sure if it makes too much sense, but it does in my head....

 

EDIT: I think I have made a bit of a boo-boo. Miz won MITB at the MITB PPV, didn't he? So the year wouldn't have expired by the time Mania comes around...bugger.

[UkWrestleFan]

Personally I think for the sake of business, Taker has to retire after losing his streak. Once he is retired the streak does no good for business, but having him lose it will give a big boost to whoever takes it, no doubt about that, and here is what I would do with it.

 

Building up to Mania I would have Miz get into a bitter feud with John Morrisson (sp?), and I mean a bitter feud. So much so that Miz never has the opportunity, or even forgets to cash in the MITB contract.

 

At the start of Mania I would have the announce team really hyping the fact that Miz has not cashed in the MITB contract, and now can not do so. Have Miz come down to ringside as they are talking about it, make it seem impromptu, then have him rant and rave about how he has the right to cash in the contract.

 

VKM or someone then comes out, tells Miz that the contract is now null and void.

 

Miz then has a brutal match with JM, which he wins but is badly injured.

 

Miz then jumps one of the MITB participants on the way to the ring and takes their place, ala Edge and Kofi in the Elimination Chamber.

 

By some miracle the Miz wins MITB for the second year running.

 

The main event for the night would be Taker vs someone, preferably Kane but I'm not sure if the story will last that long. Taker goes into the match as champion, so the hype from Kane is that he will win the title and end his brothers streak. Also have Taker say that if he loses his streak then he will retire. Have the match go back and forth, with Taker eventually winning.

 

As Taker is celebrating the Miz attacks, and gets the pin.

 

Ding ding ding, we have a new champion, and Miz has ended Takers streak.

 

The gains from this;

-Miz gets elevated and is champ. By default JM also ends up in a main event feud over the title due to their existing feud continuing. Surely the IWC would mark out for this...

 

-We get all the build going into Mania of Taker possibly losing the title, the streak and his career. This could be an epic build with Taker vs Kane.

 

-Miz now gets to brag that he won 3 matches in one night at Mania, he is the champ, he ended the streak and ended Takers career. Talk about a feather in the cap...

 

-Forgive me if I am wrong, but is Miz not "undefeated" at Mania, with a streak of 1-0? Have him claim Takers streak and start saying that he is 20-0 (or whatever it is that Taker is), each year he then builds on that with typical heelish cheating. This could then build to another huge match years down the line.

 

Personally I think this could put Miz over as the No.1 heel in the 'E.

 

That's about it, not sure if it makes too much sense, but it does in my head....

 

Sounds good. My only gripe with that would be why Miz would get put in the match after attacking somebody? Didn't Edge only get put in as replacement thanks to Vickie Guerrero being GM or something? Of course, it's good to suspend your belief while watching wrestling but it really wouldn't sit well with me.

 

Perhaps have Vince sucking upto Vince in the run up to 'Mania? Then, Miz finds out his MiTB contract is null and void. Vince sympathizes but says he can't do anything about it, but, he says he has a plan. The plan is to have Miz jump somebody in the MiTB match and injure them. Vince comes out before the match telling everybody that *insert name* is injured but he has a replacement...The Miz. Then continue on with your way of thinking

[MrOnu]

All this arguing makes me think I'm in a tiny minority who doesn't care about Taker's streak. It has the same effect on me as all those mentions of "WWE Universe", just another marketing tool without any impact on the product.

 

Anyway, if someone has to beat Taker at Wrestlemania, it has to be the Miz, 'cause you know, he's awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwesome

[1234]

Just going to put my idea out about how the streak could "end".

 

Undertaker should be one of the final two in the Royal Rumble, losing to someone like Cena who will help sell Wrestlemania. After Cena chooses who he wants to face, and Undertaker begins his pursuit to get a shot at the other champion at Wrestlemania (whoever this is should be someone that has the potential to be a star for multiple years, for the example I will use Sheamus). Sheamus is given the choice out of 3 people for who he will face at 'Mania, Undertaker and 2 other main eventers.

 

The contenders agree to a match where the winner gets to face Sheamus at Wrestlemania. Undertaker wins the match, but Sheamus tells Taker that he will only get a shot if he is willing to put his career on the line first (Meaning that Undertaker has to beat Sheamus in a match with his career on the line, and then another match for the title, but if Sheamus wins match 1 Undertaker would retire. I feel this would be a good stipulation and add to the suspense about whether the streak will end.). Undertaker agrees.

 

At Wrestlemania after a long hard fought battle Undertaker gets the win. However before the match restarts someone runs down to the ring and attacks 'Taker (Thinking back on it, I would replace Sheamus with DiBiase, and have Sheamus be the attacker). Due to Undertaker being beat down by DiBiase & Sheamus, the referee refuses to start the second match, but Sheamus performs a mock count while DiBiase pins him.

 

This allows Takers streak to remain intact, however puts 2 people over due to the fact they unofficialy ended the streak (which of course they will claim that they really ended the streak).

 

This puts 2 people over the top and makes them stars for the future, while allowing Taker to remain strong and gives the WWE a hot storyline to carry forward.

[Hyde Hill]

Even rarer are Undertaker's clean losses on TV.

 

I can remember Kozlov two years ago. Him not performing well in that match was the start of his depush I think.

[Linsolv]

I'd have to agree (tangentially) with Stennick on one point. Now that I've slept on it, there's no way Miz or whoever your preference of young up-and-comer could take the streak this year. I think if WWE decided to put a real strong, consistent push behind a Miz or Sheamus for the next 15 months, then you might be able to get a convincing result out of it.

 

I don't really like wilts's idea in that it would take WM, an event that is bigger than any one person on it, and make it "Night of Miz." That, to me, would cheapen it.

[Stennick]

I wonder how many ladies have felt cheapened after a "Night of Miz" aye oh I'll be here all week ladies and gentlemen don't forget to tip your waitress.

[Linsolv]

I'm sorry, Stennick, are you implying that the Miz wouldn't leave ladies feeling AAAAAAWWWWWWESOOOOOOOME?

[Stennick]

Well he's no Shaman of Sexy thats for sure

[djthefunkchris]

Well he's no Shaman of Sexy thats for sure

 

No, he's a "Chick Magnet"!

[Hyde Hill]

No, he's a "Chick Magnet"!

 

And a Punk.

 

(obscure reference maybe but one of the theories about CM is that it originally stood for Chick Magnet.)

[JTandSilentBob]

If I was going to have anyone take away Undertaker's streak it would be the Miz.

 

I'd have Kane go over in his feud with Taker, but not decisively. Have the Undertaker win the Royal Rumble and face Raw's Champion(Either Orton or Cena) at Wrestlemania. After winning an exhausting match with Orton or Cena(maybe even a triple threat match). Miz cashes in MITB and defeats Undertaker, but not without struggle. That way the Undertaker gets beat, and Miz becomes a star. People already hate him, why not make them hate him more.

 

I also have a plan for Unifying the World Championships which involves Miz winning Royal Rumble, facing Smackdowns champ, then cashing in on Raw champ after he defends.

 

I'm not even a Miz fan. Just offering solutions to some possible Wrestlemania match-ups.

[Robtallica]

If I was going to have anyone take away Undertaker's streak it would be the Miz.

 

I'd have Kane go over in his feud with Taker, but not decisively. Have the Undertaker win the Royal Rumble and face Raw's Champion(Either Orton or Cena) at Wrestlemania. After winning an exhausting match with Orton or Cena(maybe even a triple threat match). Miz cashes in MITB and defeats Undertaker, but not without struggle. That way the Undertaker gets beat, and Miz becomes a star. People already hate him, why not make them hate him more.

 

I also have a plan for Unifying the World Championships which involves Miz winning Royal Rumble, facing Smackdowns champ, then cashing in on Raw champ after he defends.

 

I'm not even a Miz fan. Just offering solutions to some possible Wrestlemania match-ups.

 

i would hate for that too happen. i dont really want the streak to end and i cant stand the miz personaly. if they want miz to be the one to end it then fine but cashing in and doing it like that takes away just about everything he would gain by beat taker at mania and wastes years of building up the win streak.

[LoNdOn]

Just going to put my idea out about how the streak could "end".

 

Undertaker should be one of the final two in the Royal Rumble, losing to someone like Cena who will help sell Wrestlemania. After Cena chooses who he wants to face, and Undertaker begins his pursuit to get a shot at the other champion at Wrestlemania (whoever this is should be someone that has the potential to be a star for multiple years, for the example I will use Sheamus). Sheamus is given the choice out of 3 people for who he will face at 'Mania, Undertaker and 2 other main eventers.

 

The contenders agree to a match where the winner gets to face Sheamus at Wrestlemania. Undertaker wins the match, but Sheamus tells Taker that he will only get a shot if he is willing to put his career on the line first (Meaning that Undertaker has to beat Sheamus in a match with his career on the line, and then another match for the title, but if Sheamus wins match 1 Undertaker would retire. I feel this would be a good stipulation and add to the suspense about whether the streak will end.). Undertaker agrees.

 

At Wrestlemania after a long hard fought battle Undertaker gets the win. However before the match restarts someone runs down to the ring and attacks 'Taker (Thinking back on it, I would replace Sheamus with DiBiase, and have Sheamus be the attacker). Due to Undertaker being beat down by DiBiase & Sheamus, the referee refuses to start the second match, but Sheamus performs a mock count while DiBiase pins him.

 

This allows Takers streak to remain intact, however puts 2 people over due to the fact they unofficialy ended the streak (which of course they will claim that they really ended the streak).

 

This puts 2 people over the top and makes them stars for the future, while allowing Taker to remain strong and gives the WWE a hot storyline to carry forward.

 

Could you imagine the fan backlash if they saw that kind of thing actually happen though?

[pauls07]

does taker really need to lose at mainia? its what his legecy will be, he has never had that defining title run, 20 and 0 will be what he will be remembered for. just my worthless 2 cents lol

[Linsolv]

Have we established that he's leaving next year?

 

EDIT: Because I think I'm the first person to have suggested ending it but not right now. Everyone seems to be saying that they need to end it this year. Or not ending it ever.

[Robtallica]

i dont think so. this topic seem to come up alot tho

[Candyman]

And a Punk.

 

(obscure reference maybe but one of the theories about CM is that it originally stood for Chick Magnet.)

 

And the only true one, to boot.