The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Linsolv]

My point is, until they lay out a clear reason for Cole to act like an obnoxious jerk, some self interest that ties it all together, it will always come off as the loudest kid in the class trying to shout down the teacher for no other reason than he has a mic in his hand.

 

And people like that don't irritate you? Because I know that they irritated everyone else I've ever met.

[Prophet]

Cole has always irritated me. Even when he was the straight laced heir apparent. While I was trying to illustrate what I feel the biggest flaw with the Cole character now, I've personally never been a fan and would much rather they gave the reigns to Josh Matthews.

[ShaunGBD]

I love the Heel Cole, but i hated the face Cole. 2 face guys calling the action sucks but with 1 face and 1 heel, is good. I also think Cole wouldn't be bad in a stable with a bunch of heels.

[Zeel1]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What can he do with it? As I said, bassically anyone he likes he can transfer heat to, and anyone he doesn't he can transfer cheers to. Anyone that takes a stand against him is going to be cheered, as long as they don't overdue it.... Meaning, if someone like Zack Ryder (Loose example of someone I don't understand why anyone thinks should be a star) were to start talking back at Cole, they could at the very least bump them up temporarily, into an Upper Midcard position, possibly even higher. Have Cole get one of the guys thought of to be Main Event material or Upper Mid to go after Zack, and people are going to cheer for Zack, and want Zack to win. IF someone like Zack could actually grab onto this effect, it could do wonder's for their carreer.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ryder/Cole seems like it could be pretty fun, actually... </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Prophet" data-cite="Prophet" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think the biggest problem with heel Cole now is, there's no reason for it. Heenan, King, McMahon, Heyman, Cornette ... they all had agendas, and until Cole has an outright reason, it lacks sense. This is what I mean.<p> </p><p> Heenan and Cornette were both managers who either had current clients, or option to scout new clients. Heenan would tear into Hogan, because he had reason to, Hogan had the belt, Hogan would duck the Family, it made sense.</p><p> </p><p> When Heyman was heel color guy, he was aligned with the Invasion, he was self aggrandizing ECW, he was justified in tearing down the faces of WWF/E. And McMahon was trying to mold the company into what he felt it should look like. Which turned Austin and others (including the dreaded Union) into protagonists. Still, clear cut agenda.</p><p> </p><p> As for King, when he began commentating, he was still active. He feuded with Bret Hart, he outwitted people in Rumble matches by hiding under the ring. He made the most sense to be heelish as a commentator. This also holds true during Perfect's run. All of them have reason.</p><p> </p><p> Cole doesn't have that reason. He's heel because he's friends with the Miz? He's friends with Cena too, something they touched on during the heel run of Michael Cole, which was forgotten the next week. Which brings me to another point. Cole is wildly inconsistent. One week, he's horrified by a beating that took place in the ring, and the next week, the victim deserved worse. One week, Miz went too far when scolding Alex Riley, and it was good for A-Ri to stand up for himself, the next week, Cole's demanding an apology from Riley. It almost seems like he loses perspective of which role he's supposed to play.</p><p> </p><p> My point is, until they lay out a clear reason for Cole to act like an obnoxious jerk, some self interest that ties it all together, it will always come off as the loudest kid in the class trying to shout down the teacher for no other reason than he has a mic in his hand.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's true enough that he doesn't really have an agenda or a goal, but I wouldn't say he has no reason to be doing this. The feeling I got was that he was simply tired of taking all of the fan's ****. I mean, as many here have recently said, they always hated Cole. For pretty much the entire time he's been on WWE TV, people have hated him for various reasons, and it seemed to get worse and worse every year. I read his character arc as basically being that for that decade or so, he was just trying to pander to the fans, talking up the people that they liked, talking down the people they hated, just trying to get them to like him, and for so long they just didn't accept him. It only makes sense that eventually he'd just be all, "You know what, **** you guys too." Now he's just venting all that pent-up anger and enjoying every minute of it. Basically he's doing the exact opposite of what he used to do, talking up people like Miz and Del Rio, hating on guys like Mysterio, and doing pretty much whatever he can to troll the fans. It makes total sense to me...</p>

[BloodyKnuckles]

<p>While I haven't watched much wrestling lately, what I have seen I have enjoyed of Michael Cole. Unlike most, I actually didn't hate him as a face but he is shining in his role as a heel. I love how he's the Miz' number one fan and marks out for him, I also think how he insults Daniel Bryan and refers to him as a nerd is awesome. Bryan is a guy who is always going to struggle connecting with WWE audiences and I believe Cole's dislike of him only helps him get over with the fans.</p><p> </p><p>

I disagree completely that Cole doesn't serve a role by doing what he's doing, a heel announcer imo has always helped get babyfaces more connection with fans by giving them more reason to remember them. I believe he helps put over both the Miz and Daniel Bryan from what I've seen, and he's also pretty funny. (I watched the 2011 Rumble the other day, and he had me cracking up several times during the match. "I respect Bryan, I just think he's a nerd and he probably never had a girlfriend")</p><p> </p><p>

That's just my two cents on the issue though, good debate and I can understand the issues that some have with Michael Cole even if I don't agree with them myself.</p>

[BurningHamster]

I like Roddy Piper

[Prophet]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zeel1" data-cite="Zeel1" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's true enough that he doesn't really have an agenda or a goal, but I wouldn't say he has no reason to be doing this. The feeling I got was that he was simply tired of taking all of the fan's ****. I mean, as many here have recently said, they always hated Cole. For pretty much the entire time he's been on WWE TV, people have hated him for various reasons, and it seemed to get worse and worse every year. I read his character arc as basically being that for that decade or so, he was just trying to pander to the fans, talking up the people that they liked, talking down the people they hated, just trying to get them to like him, and for so long they just didn't accept him. It only makes sense that eventually he'd just be all, "You know what, **** you guys too." Now he's just venting all that pent-up anger and enjoying every minute of it. Basically he's doing the exact opposite of what he used to do, talking up people like Miz and Del Rio, hating on guys like Mysterio, and doing pretty much whatever he can to troll the fans. It makes total sense to me...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I may not have made my meaning of reason clear. I understand the story arc, and actually agree with it, in that sense. Like I said, I've never been a fan, and with everyone chanting JR's name everytime he got the chance to lead, it was an inevitability that he'd go off the deep end, as it were. I don't dispute that.</p><p> </p><p> By reason, what I meant was, that eventually all that bottled heat gets transferred. McMahon to Austin, King to Bret Hart, Heenan to Flair, etc. Cole passed his to King, as a way to get Lawler his WM match. And then passed it to Swagger when Swagger got fed up and walked. But they were small outlets ... King's WM moment is over, and isn't remembered fondly, and Swagger's still low man on the totem pole, playing a heel role when he walked out on a heel role. In both instances, they've fizzled. It happens, and opportunity is still there, but now there's no real reason.</p><p> </p><p> Either Cole moves out from the booth, and becomes a part/full time manager, who gains from the constant backlashing that Cole receives every week, or Cole starts a new feud with someone. Either way, he needs a full outlet for all that accumulated hatred he's bottling, because like him or hate him, Michael Cole is not in a role right now that's conducive to his being one of the biggest heels in the company. </p><p> </p><p> It doesn't seem like there's an endgame planned for all this, and he's just an annoying voice filling up four hours of television, when that same focus could be used to make someone like Swagger a legitimate contender again. Or better yet, he could build someone from the ground up. Tyler Reks for example, has all but disappeared. He's got a good look (in my opinion), solid skill, but he's not built for mic work. Unless it's a four minute promo of him seething and spitting. You give him Cole, Reks becomes hated, Cole builds him up with purpose, and in 4 months, you have a major contender for Kofi.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BloodyKnuckles" data-cite="BloodyKnuckles" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While I haven't watched much wrestling lately, what I have seen I have enjoyed of Michael Cole. Unlike most, I actually didn't hate him as a face but he is shining in his role as a heel. I love how he's the Miz' number one fan and marks out for him, I also think how he insults Daniel Bryan and refers to him as a nerd is awesome. Bryan is a guy who is always going to struggle connecting with WWE audiences and I believe Cole's dislike of him only helps him get over with the fans.<p> </p><p> I disagree completely that Cole doesn't serve a role by doing what he's doing, a heel announcer imo has always helped get babyfaces more connection with fans by giving them more reason to remember them. I believe he helps put over both the Miz and Daniel Bryan from what I've seen, and he's also pretty funny. (I watched the 2011 Rumble the other day, and he had me cracking up several times during the match. "I respect Bryan, I just think he's a nerd and he probably never had a girlfriend")</p><p> </p><p> That's just my two cents on the issue though, good debate and I can understand the issues that some have with Michael Cole even if I don't agree with them myself.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Saw this post post, and wanted to add that while I don't completely disagree with this, I think it lacks an element. Bryan's a perfect example, actually. On NXT, when Cole ripped the "internet darling" for being a TV-less nerd, and Bryan responded, it was a boon. Bryan gained the crowd, but that interaction led to the transfer I mentioned earlier. Even Eve chasing Cole into the Cole Mine gave that confrontation. Cole kissing up to Ziggler on guest commentary even transfers a little, but in the larger scheme of things, without a focus, it's being a jerk just because. </p><p> </p><p> And all of these points, which may come across confusing (for which I apologize), aren't an argument to stop heel Cole. I prefer the idea of Cole as a heel, he does seem more natural in this phase, I just wish they would utilize it better. I think announcer/manager Cole would be hugely beneficial, wherein he can rip all the fun loving babies he wants, and mobilize the fans against one main antagonist. Or maybe I simply long for the days of Bobby and Cornette, and the Mouth roaming ringside.</p>

[MrOnu]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like Roddy Piper</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How dare you !</p>

[ewanite]

Interestingly, the Cole segments were consistently the higher rated segments of the show through the King storyline. That's why they stretched the feud out so much.

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tha Black Phenom" data-cite="Tha Black Phenom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's a point I can agree on with. Everything can have an use at a certain degree. Such as during that Rock birthday party special, Rock did his thing, entertaining the crowd with his mic skills.. then they had to get someone to spar with him so they could kick off on a good note - couldn't be a wrestler so that people wouldn't endlessly speculate further, Cole was the perfect guinea pig.<p> </p><p> Alex Riley's face turn, the generic way of going at it would be Miz ranting at how he's done everything for A-Ri, but that'd be too straightforward, that's where Cole comes in.</p><p> </p><p> A lot of smarks tend to believe what they find annoying is by all means wrong, and those lines need to be separated a bit. Granted I did want to see Cole out of my TV but if it came down to himself, I'd say he's doing a splendid job with what he's given. Redeeming himself for all those years of chuffy commentating, he got the idea of putting it all out in the open.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly. Alex Riley got a huge face pop when he turned face, and he did this my attacking Cole, not The Miz. That segment elevated Riley before The Miz came out, and that is the purpose that Michael Cole serves. There may not be a huge number of examples where he has a positive effect, but you only need a few... and that was a huge one.</p>

[critical-23]

Is anyone else seeing the Usos as being wasted? They are friggin' talented!!

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>This is the first SD in months.that I have not read the spoilers, and Im not regretting it.</p><p> </p><p>

Smackdown really gets it. This may be some of the best TV since Punk/Jeff in 2009</p>

[milamber]

Smackdown was really good this week. I enjoyed every match and angle, which is rare these days with all the usual filler.

[b0shey]

My god AJ is so Beautiful and Sexy.

[BloodyKnuckles]

I watched Smackdown yesterday and I'm glad I did, that was a great show. I think the Orton/Christian feud is looking excellent, and the undercard matches were all pretty good. (Including the diva's match!!!)

 

I'm slowly getting back into wrestling and finding that it's not quite as bad as I believed it had gotten. (Although the quick title changes are very annoying.)

[Teh_Showtime]

Sheamus is going to be a huge babyface by the end of this year. He can win clean and has charisma, if he beats down Christian he would be a great face.

[Nathers7]

Seems pretty obvious that Christian is winning the title (which is great), what would be the point in all of the buildup in having him lose 3 times in a row clean to Randy Orton. WWE tend to mess up their best storylines pretty quickly though.

 

Smackdown at the minute is just miles better than Raw, you get the feeling that Raw just don't know what they're doing (throwing Del Rio into a feud with Kane and Big Show, a constant re run of Mysterio-Punk, always having Cena coming out on top to end the show). The only positives being Alex Riley and the R-Truth character. Where Smackdown has Christian-Orton-Sheamus which has been booked perfectly so far, they've made Christian and Sheamus look strong as heels while Orton continues as the main man. Obviously the Corre is a bit of a mess but you've got Rhodes/DiBiase vs. Sin Cara/Bryan which is fresh and they actually have a likeable diva in AJ Lee.

[Moe Hunter]

What would be the point of all that Nexus build up just to have Punk lose to Orton three times in a row? Oh, wait. That already happened. Good luck, Christian.

[Nathers7]

What would be the point of all that Nexus build up just to have Punk lose to Orton three times in a row? Oh, wait. That already happened. Good luck, Christian.

 

Loool, Nexus had died after Cena and Orton buried it before Punk had even become involved. There was nothing Punk was going to be able to do to carry 4 lackeys under a group name that had already been messed up. And what build up? They had a good run in the Rumble and then every single one of them got eliminated by Cena, how is that buildup? Christian has been at the forefront of Smackdown for the past 2 months.

[BloodyKnuckles]

I am enjoying the Orton v. Christian feud, and I like Christian.. but I absolutely HATE short World Title runs which the 'E have had so many of lately it's depressing. I'm rooting for them to stick with Orton on top for at least a couple of months, especially since his unstable babyface stuff intrigues me.

[Linsolv]

Smackdown at the minute is just miles better than Raw, you get the feeling that Raw just don't know what they're doing (throwing Del Rio into a feud with Kane and Big Show, a constant re run of Mysterio-Punk, always having Cena coming out on top to end the show). The only positives being Alex Riley and the R-Truth character. Where Smackdown has Christian-Orton-Sheamus which has been booked perfectly so far, they've made Christian and Sheamus look strong as heels while Orton continues as the main man. Obviously the Corre is a bit of a mess but you've got Rhodes/DiBiase vs. Sin Cara/Bryan which is fresh and they actually have a likeable diva in AJ Lee.

 

Finally got around to watching SD for this week. It isn't too bad, but I do have a few MINOR complaints:

 

1) Get your Sin Cara out of my Daniel Bryan. I like DB because I like technical. Introducing a flyer actually introduces a thing I will actively not watch.

2) I don't really like where they're taking Tamina. I dunno. Whatever, it's their call. Unsure how I felt about that bit about "LayCool want their gimmick back." Breaking the fourth wall seems inappropriate for WWE.

3) Honestly, Sheamus has looked strong, but not as a heel. He's been pretty reasonable: hasn't cheated, tried to play everything straight... he's more like a [self-assured] face than anything else.

[Nathers7]

I get the breaking kayfabe complaint, not sure what they were doing there to be honest. The thing is Sin Cara is a world class technician in his own right (If you watch his stuff from CMLL), WWE highlights the high flying stuff because it get's people excited and is succeeding in getting Sin Cara over. Sheamus has never openly cheated to win as far as I remember, Summerslam maybe? That's about it though. He reminds me of Undertaker from 02, a badass heel that can win clean. I think they will look to turn him face during this storyline as he has definitely come across as a face the past few weeks, he showed no complaint in getting the win this week thanks to Christian however.

[Linsolv]

But I mean, he even went to Christian and asked for a clean match last week. That's not heelish. It's almost HUMBLE.

 

(Admittedly, if he was totally a heel for like forever and I'm just seeing a sudden shift, I've only been watching Smackdown for 2 weeks now. I normally can't really pay attention to 3-4 hours of wrestling a week, and I knew the characters on RAW better. But then I thought "but let's watch both anyways I got time.")

[Nathers7]

Looks like they're planting the seeds for a face turn. Smackdown has Orton and then there's a big gap to Sin Cara, Bryan and Zeke on the face side. They need another legit face and Sheamus would probably work well in the role.

 

Does anyone here think R-Truth could win the WWE title in the next few months? I had a debate with someone about this on another forum, interested to see what you guys think.

[ShaunGBD]

 

Does anyone here think R-Truth could win the WWE title in the next few months? I had a debate with someone about this on another forum, interested to see what you guys think.

 

No, they are only building him up to feud with Cena and Cena will beat him.