The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[MrCanada]

Let me follow this "storyline" chain shall I....

 

1) CM Punk becomes #1 contender and announces his contract will expire on the day he plans to win the title and will walk out with the belt.

 

2) Stuff comes to front about CM Punk's frustration with WWE and namely Vince McMahon & his family laterally.

 

3) CM Punk wins the title, leaves WWE.

 

4) This causes WWE to lose faith in Vince and remove him from power putting Triple H into power.

 

5) CM Punk returns and such and proves he isnt a fluke, along the way revealing HHH is "more of the same".

 

6) Kevin Nash costs CM Punk the title. Seemingly because someone doesnt want Punk to be WWE champion.

 

7) Kevin Nash keeps CM Punk out of the title picture because someone doesnt want CM Punk to be WWE champion.

 

8) HHH decides to fight CM Punk because Punk insulted him a couple times and wins.

 

9) HHH fires Kevin Nash.

 

10) Kevin Nash and HHH are now in a feud........

 

I've missed some stuff obviously, but how does that make any sense? The whole Thing hasnt had a big "payoff" yet and its completley shifted focus and left CM Punk, the catalyst, seemingly on the curb. And the original focus of the storyline, of change, of CM Punk being different and sick of the status quo and the fans (seemingly) agreeing, has now been replaced by HHH vs. Kevin Nash.... because thats new and different?

[crownsy]

Let me follow this "storyline" chain shall I....

 

1) CM Punk becomes #1 contender and announces his contract will expire on the day he plans to win the title and will walk out with the belt.

 

2) Stuff comes to front about CM Punk's frustration with WWE and namely Vince McMahon & his family laterally.

 

3) CM Punk wins the title, leaves WWE.

 

4) This causes WWE to lose faith in Vince and remove him from power putting Triple H into power.

 

5) CM Punk returns and such and proves he isnt a fluke, along the way revealing HHH is "more of the same".

 

6) Kevin Nash costs CM Punk the title. Seemingly because someone doesnt want Punk to be WWE champion.

 

7) Kevin Nash keeps CM Punk out of the title picture because someone doesnt want CM Punk to be WWE champion.

 

8) HHH decides to fight CM Punk because Punk insulted him a couple times and wins.

 

9) HHH fires Kevin Nash.

 

10) Kevin Nash and HHH are now in a feud........

 

I've missed some stuff obviously, but how does that make any sense? The whole Thing hasnt had a big "payoff" yet and its completley shifted focus and left CM Punk, the catalyst, seemingly on the curb. And the original focus of the storyline, of change, of CM Punk being different and sick of the status quo and the fans (seemingly) agreeing, has now been replaced by HHH vs. Kevin Nash.... because thats new and different?

 

Depends on how it's booked tonight and going into survivor series. I completly expect WWE to over convolute it and mess it up but if you really wanted to validate the above storyline It could be done by...

 

1. Tonight have Del Rio tell Cena he isn't getting another shot (which would be fair, the LMSM was cena's rematch for the title) and actually have LAurentis back him up.

 

2. CM Punk wins some sort of number one contenders strip, preferably by overcoming outside interferance.

 

3. The weeks leading up to Survivor series Johnny Ace keeps putting Punk in unfair matches/ Trying to take his shot at SS away. Leads into the "someone doesn't want me to be champion" angle they set up (and i agree with you, are currently botching)

 

4. At SS have del rio and Punk put on a great match, Punk Win clean, but have Johnny Ace come out and order a immediate rematch, screw him on a non existent reason for a restart ect. From there I personally would have Punk win AGAIN and keep the title, setting up a SCSA-esque "I have the title and there's nothing you can do about it " sort of situation.

 

However, the problems are many fold with the above happening.

 

1. as you and I agree, WWE hates simple, easy to follow storylines. They need a "what a twist!" moment, or so they think

 

2. It takes John Cena out of the immediate title picture, something Vince and WWE are loath to do. If they want to focus on CENA-ROCK it could be done.

 

3. It requires putting faith in someone other than John Cena to be the top dog for a bit, and keep Cena mostly out of punks way. Him "helping" punk as the other big raw baby face would destroy the whole thing

[ZMAN]

The way I see it, WWE is not meant to have long, sophisticated storylines. Look at who their target audience is, their attention span can't be that great. It sucks for the hardcore fans who actually want a good pay off or intelligent answers, but chances are we'll never get them. This isn't new, it's been around in WWE for a while. Nexus, WCW Invasion, GTV, Austin/Limo, anything with Kane(besides his intial/debut storyline), Austin/Brief case, Vince/Higher Power, anonymous GM... And of course, we all know that on-screen relationships mean shit.''

 

It's all about "moments" and very short-term stories with WWE, and that is where they truly deliver. Was the CM Punk/WWE storyline deep and evolving? Nah, but it did spawn several good moments.

 

IMO, that's part of the reason I believe that Raven never made it that big in the WWE. The character he portrayed required more than just a 20 second promo and some hardcore matches against Viscera to get over. Whereas, a guy like Austin is simple yet effective. You don't need a crazy backstory to get Austin over, the guys character is straight to the point and requires no complex story. Austin is a moments guy, Raven is a story guy.

 

I mean, I'm pretty sure you can do a link-by-link analysis of several other storyline chains in the past and find tons more flaws.

[Astil]

Hello WWE fans.

 

Odd request but if anyone has a picture of CM Punk that shows his boots could you PM it to me?

 

Thanks.

 

Also: I've had enough Nash forever now.

[Blackman]

The way I see it, WWE is not meant to have long, sophisticated storylines. Look at who their target audience is, their attention span can't be that great. It sucks for the hardcore fans who actually want a good pay off or intelligent answers, but chances are we'll never get them. This isn't new, it's been around in WWE for a while. Nexus, WCW Invasion, GTV, Austin/Limo, anything with Kane(besides his intial/debut storyline), Austin/Brief case, Vince/Higher Power, anonymous GM... And of course, we all know that on-screen relationships mean shit.''

 

It's all about "moments" and very short-term stories with WWE, and that is where they truly deliver. Was the CM Punk/WWE storyline deep and evolving? Nah, but it did spawn several good moments.

 

IMO, that's part of the reason I believe that Raven never made it that big in the WWE. The character he portrayed required more than just a 20 second promo and some hardcore matches against Viscera to get over. Whereas, a guy like Austin is simple yet effective. You don't need a crazy backstory to get Austin over, the guys character is straight to the point and requires no complex story. Austin is a moments guy, Raven is a story guy.

 

I mean, I'm pretty sure you can do a link-by-link analysis of several other storyline chains in the past and find tons more flaws.

 

Very true. (can't really add to it)

[Fantabulous]

WWE was aimed at kids when they had the year long storyline of Hogan and Savage. That seemed to turn out well.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Disagree. WINNING a feud with Orton gives Rhodes a rub. Being in matches with Main Eventers does not make them a main eventer. That's like the Royals winning 1 out of 4 against the Yankees and people saying the Royals got the rub just by playing them. Yes I know sports are different, but it's more or less the same concept.

 

No it isn't.. it couldn't be further from the same concept.

 

Sports teams don't have a status to uphold in the same manner. A superstar's status has to have a reliable story behind it. When a midcarder is rising up the ranks, it's often by riding the coattails of the much higher star above him.

 

If Orton squashed Rhodes in five minutes, yes that would be atrocity and a keeping down talent, and blah blah. But Cody's going toe-to-toe with multiple-time world champion the Viper, with sneak attacks behind it. That's what used to elevate him, and it works.

 

Hell yeah, winning will help Rhodes a ton. In time. They're developing Rhodes, cause they're giving him spots they wouldn't give other guys on the roster easily. If he keeps going with good workrate, they'll continue headlining him with Orton and eventually likely get a win.

[Candyman]

Just watched the opening segment of tonight's Raw. Two thoughts:

 

First, who thought it was a good idea to have the trainers try to pick up a guy who clearly had a severe back/neck injury and help them walk backstage? That was truly baffling.

 

Second, for the love of god I pray that the WWE's real security is 1000x better than the fake stuff. Somebody's got to have a gun or at least a taser. Jesus.

[Adam_Starr36]

Hmm.. Anyone see Miz completely miss Zack Ryder's head when he was suppose to make look like he at least attempted to touch his face, but either Ryder moved too quick, or Miz just .. didn't do too well with that, but Miz completely missed.. Sorry for bagging on Miz/Ryder it just caught me off guard and had me laughing for a good while... Still am actually.

 

Enjoy the rest of the Triple H show.

[Guest codey]

What happened with that discussion a couple of weeks ago about Rock competing at Survivor Series?

[milamber]

I'm in the pro-Henry camp. He's gold right now.

 

I think Rhodes beating and bagging the #2 babyface in the company is a huge rub. What they do next with him is crucial though.

 

With Nash, I thought he was gone for good but now it seems he might have a part to play at SS.

 

And no one's mention the unmasking of Sin Cara Negro on last week's SD. Am I the only one who's interested in the Sin Caras?

 

Read somewhere that Brodus Clay is debuting on Raw soon and they intend to have him compete on both brands for a while. Sounds good to me.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Despite the fact they advertised it all tap-dancing night.. at least there's a scenario behind the team-up.

[Teh_Showtime]

What happened with that discussion a couple of weeks ago about Rock competing at Survivor Series?

Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

[bigtplaystew]

Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

 

Yea and he spit all over the mic when he said it. Hocked a nice streaming loogey... GROSS! lol

[OldStingberg]

I thought Raw last night was solid enough. A couple nice wrestling matches, one of them was even totally new. Christian/Rhodes vs. Orton/Sheamus was to be expected, but seeing Barrett vs. Morrison was nice. I'm a big fan of seeing Santino. Johnny Ace had too much time on the mic, but at least they gave Punk the opportunity to say what we're all thinking. Punk really, really needed that. Michael Cole wasn't even that annoying, and I'm cautiously optimistic (more cautiously than optimistic) about what will happen between him and JR next week.

 

I read a report yesterday that Vince has soured on factions in general, and that seems to be the case. It looks like they're setting up Nash vs. HHH, Punk vs. ADR, and The Rock 'n' Jorts Connection vs. Awesome Truth in lieu of a high-profile Survivor Series style match. That probably makes sense, too, because at this point in the WWE, if they load 10 of their top guys into one match, what the hell do they have left for the other two-and-a-half hours of a PPV? Ziggler wrestling three times?

 

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

[juggaloninjalee]

I thought Raw last night was solid enough. A couple nice wrestling matches, one of them was even totally new. Christian/Rhodes vs. Orton/Sheamus was to be expected, but seeing Barrett vs. Morrison was nice. I'm a big fan of seeing Santino. Johnny Ace had too much time on the mic, but at least they gave Punk the opportunity to say what we're all thinking. Punk really, really needed that. Michael Cole wasn't even that annoying, and I'm cautiously optimistic (more cautiously than optimistic) about what will happen between him and JR next week.

 

I read a report yesterday that Vince has soured on factions in general, and that seems to be the case. It looks like they're setting up Nash vs. HHH, Punk vs. ADR, and The Rock 'n' Jorts Connection vs. Awesome Truth in lieu of a high-profile Survivor Series style match. That probably makes sense, too, because at this point in the WWE, if they load 10 of their top guys into one match, what the hell do they have left for the other two-and-a-half hours of a PPV? Ziggler wrestling three times?

 

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

 

I think Miz and Truth will win this match either because Rock and Cena can't get on the same page or because Rock turns on Cena and lays him out. The purpose of this match is to keep momentum going for Rock vs Cena at Mania.

 

Ziggler and Swagger will probably face each other at the Rumble for the US Title if not sooner. Swagger will probably have a face turn leading to it.

 

As for HHH and Nash I am not sure where this is going but it is the main storyline right now with Johnny Ace and the COO position. Does HBK come back and get in the middle of this? What about Waltman? I don't really know.

[Guest codey]

Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

 

I know. It was just a comment on how people were denying like crazy that he would actually compete

[Tha Black Phenom]

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

 

They're not meant to be a menacing force by any means, just some persistent troublemaking pests that need to be taken care of.. because of their numerous attacks and amazingly piss poor security staff. IMO it's a solid heel role to have, emphasized by their amount of screentime and exposure lately.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to be a threat, question might just be "will Rock and Cena be able to coexist".

[Jaysin]

I think Miz and Truth will win this match either because Rock and Cena can't get on the same page or because Rock turns on Cena and lays him out. The purpose of this match is to keep momentum going for Rock vs Cena at Mania.

 

Ziggler and Swagger will probably face each other at the Rumble for the US Title if not sooner. Swagger will probably have a face turn leading to it.

 

As for HHH and Nash I am not sure where this is going but it is the main storyline right now with Johnny Ace and the COO position. Does HBK come back and get in the middle of this? What about Waltman? I don't really know.

 

Really? Swagger?

 

It seems like Ziggler will be the one getting a face turn to me.

[OldStingberg]

They're not meant to be a menacing force by any means, just some persistent troublemaking pests that need to be taken care of.. because of their numerous attacks and amazingly piss poor security staff. IMO it's a solid heel role to have, emphasized by their amount of screentime and exposure lately.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to be a threat, question might just be "will Rock and Cena be able to coexist".

 

Almost the entire WWE roster walked out of Raw because of their attacks. Surely it'd take more than some "troublemaking pests" for that to happen.

[OldStingberg]

Really? Swagger?

 

It seems like Ziggler will be the one getting a face turn to me.

 

I don't think either will. It seemed like at one point they were going to do something, when they started the two guys feuding, but I don't think they ever had a clear idea what they were going to do. As a result, they ended that feud without any explanation and now the two are totally buddy-buddy.

[TakerNGN74]

Picked up the Greatest Rivalries: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels DVD today and I have already watched the first disc. One of the best WWE DVDs I hever ever purchased, if you are on the fence about grabbing this DVD do it you won't regret it.

[Mr Rager]

Picked up the Greatest Rivalries: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels DVD today and I have already watched the first disc. One of the best WWE DVDs I hever ever purchased, if you are on the fence about grabbing this DVD do it you won't regret it.

 

Haven't bought a WWE production in many years but I'll be ordering that tomorrow when I get paid. Super excited.

 

Anyone else get the feeling we'll see a bunch of upper midcarders thrown into a 5vs5 for no real reason other than for the sake of a 5vs5 taking place at Survivor Series? Shame, because with the whole fight for power that was playing out it seemed the perfect opportunity for a 5vs5 with an actual story behind it, but at the same time it's understandable that they don't want to put all of their stars in one match.

 

Randy Orton, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne & Zack Ryder/Mason Ryan vs. Cody Rhodes, Christian, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger & one other (Wade Barrett?) - something resembling that would be my guess.

[sebsy]

I'm begging for Survivor Series to look something like...

 

5v5 elimination

HHH, CM Punk, John Cena, The Rock, Mick Foley (rumours of a return)

vs

Kevin Nash, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, R-Truth (one other)

 

World Title

Mark Henry vs Big Show

 

US Title

Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder

 

5v5 elimination

Randy Orton, Sheamus, Mason Ryan, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne

vs

Cody Rhodes, Christian, Jack Swagger, Wade Barrett, David Otunga

 

Sin Cara vs Sin Cara

 

5v5 elimination

 

Eve, Kelly Kelly, Alicia Fox, AJ, Kaitlyn

vs

Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Tamina, Brie Bella, Nikki Bella

 

Something along thosel ines anyway would be pretty good I think, or even just the first 5v5 elimination match and make a couple of matches out of the other one with Orton vs Rhodes and maybe Air Boom vs Barrett/Christian for the tag titles.

 

 

 

But I fear we will get something like...

 

Del Rio vs CM Punk - WWE Title

Cena/Rock vs Awesome Truth

HHH vs Nash

some 5v5 match

 

Would only be interested in the ADR vs Punk match out of that plus the 5v5 if it wasn't just filler. The thought of seeing HHH vs Nash does nothing for me at all, and I was fully expecting Cena/Rock to be part of a 5v5 so that doesn't interest me much either.

 

Hopefully Punk still doesn't show respect to Laurinaitis so he puts them on opposite sides and sticks them in the Cena/Rock vs Awesome Truth match along with HHH/Nash etc.

[milamber]

I think we can safely add Ziggler v Ryan for the US Title. Possibly Sheamus v Rhodes.