The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

Thats the thing they build Ryback up only to feed him to the champion matches that the outcome is already 100 percent certain I don't understand it.

 

I honestly don't see the reason to be confused about anything. Almost everyone that debuts, they build to a certain point, just to get them known. Ryback was built like a "face" monster. We seen this with Umaga, Khali, Kane, Undertaker, Tensai, Andre, Yokozuna, Brock Lesnar, Big Show, Mark Henry, King Kong Bundy, Batista, even Kharma, and if you want a "face" version, there was Bobby Lashley and.... well, Warrior.

 

My point is, at this point it shouldn't be such a brain scratcher. They are built up to give their main characters something to do, and hopefully in the future, they can become a main character as well. The belts are props, to give them something to fight over. Depending on how well they utilize their props/belts, they can help boost someone (Ziggler), or they can seem to hold someone back (Cesaro). However, after all is said and done, they are only props, and no matter if a character happens to hold one or not, it's not the only way to get them over.

 

Personally, I think Ryback has limitations they are well aware of, and is probably the main reason he's not holding a title right now.... Perhaps as a "Heel" they will though, and that's where my thought is as far as predicting. Still haven't seen him really be "Heelish", perhaps tonight he will do something, but... IF he is a "Heel" now, I can see him holding the title, because Heels can win that prop without them being ready for it.

[Jaysin]

I was all excited because WWE released a Rick Rude shirt and they ruin it by plastering "Swag" across the top of it...ugh this whole Swagfad needs to die.

 

http://shop.wwe.com/Rick-Rude-%22Swag%22-OTR-T-Shirt/W05176,default,pd.html?dwvar_W05176_color=White&start=2&cgid=otr

[Makhai]

In the pantheon of disappointing RAWs, this one rates pretty high up there... Gillberg>Ziggler, bye-bye Punk, more Del Rio-Swagger, Kaitlyn getting treated worse than one of Ryback's jobbers and the Miz.... Oh my.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't know... Cesaro possibly moving up now. Hint or tease of a new Punk (What do I do now? Need to rethink this thing...), possible turn (Perhaps after some time off?). Ziggler going back to where he belongs, Ryback going heel, possible "Shield" friend now. Zeb and Swagger staying in title picture. IF Ziggler is going to have a chance at staying there, he better grow up before Extreme Rules is over, or I have a feeling he will be going to the tag division. Don't look like Rock will be back anytime soon. HHH vs Lesnar part III. Undertaker is staying involved with Hell No vs Shield. The people are Fandango'ing. Santino as fun(ny) as ever.

 

They should have had the divas match much earlier... like 2.5 hours earlier... Divas not interesting at all right now. Is Natalia pregnant or something, I just don't understand why the most talented diva on the roster is playing in Khali's sideshow instead of being in the ring.

 

I'd say after last monday, it was a let down, but it did set up a few things, and give us some questions... Like, why did Punk just leave after saying "I want to get better, bigger, break barriers" instead of "I AM the best!"

 

I'm kind of excited about the future after this RAW. I know most feel like Ziggler deserves to be there, and I honestly am happy that he has a chance. I just don't see him impressing anyone without that turn I keep saying I think would do him some good.... I want that charisma from his youtube stuff to come out, and I think that's the only way he can do it.

 

Now... I kind of got the feeling they went the whole Ziggler vs Swagger route because of fear of Ziggler being more over then Del Rio (and getting more cheers then the face). The three way I knew was coming for Elimination Chamber is perfect to set up Ziggler keeping that title with an opportunistic moment.... and perhaps get that turn I want before this is all over.

[Makhai]

I don't know... Cesaro possibly moving up now. Hint or tease of a new Punk (What do I do now? Need to rethink this thing...), possible turn (Perhaps after some time off?). Ziggler going back to where he belongs, Ryback going heel, possible "Shield" friend now. Zeb and Swagger staying in title picture. IF Ziggler is going to have a chance at staying there, he better grow up before Extreme Rules is over, or I have a feeling he will be going to the tag division. Don't look like Rock will be back anytime soon. HHH vs Lesnar part III. Undertaker is staying involved with Hell No vs Shield. The people are Fandango'ing. Santino as fun(ny) as ever.

 

They should have had the divas match much earlier... like 2.5 hours earlier... Divas not interesting at all right now. Is Natalia pregnant or something, I just don't understand why the most talented diva on the roster is playing in Khali's sideshow instead of being in the ring.

 

I'd say after last monday, it was a let down, but it did set up a few things, and give us some questions... Like, why did Punk just leave after saying "I want to get better, bigger, break barriers" instead of "I AM the best!"

 

I'm kind of excited about the future after this RAW. I know most feel like Ziggler deserves to be there, and I honestly am happy that he has a chance. I just don't see him impressing anyone without that turn I keep saying I think would do him some good.... I want that charisma from his youtube stuff to come out, and I think that's the only way he can do it.

 

Now... I kind of got the feeling they went the whole Ziggler vs Swagger route because of fear of Ziggler being more over then Del Rio (and getting more cheers then the face). The three way I knew was coming for Elimination Chamber is perfect to set up Ziggler keeping that title with an opportunistic moment.... and perhaps get that turn I want before this is all over.

 

1) The booking for Cena-Ryback is so obvious it hurts. Cena keeps title, but Ryback destroys him early, Cena is about to make a comeback, Shield beat down Cena, yada-yada I expect this to be the Cena-Shield summer.

 

2) I'd leave him heal for now because you have that made to order feud with Sheamus. Instead Ziggler jobs to Jack friggen Swagger, to keep a failed program on life support. Just let it go. Start the Shemus program have him heel his way out of tight spots for a few matches, tease the turn, then he goes over clean at Over the Limit in Buffalo as a co-main. Crowd goes wild, he turns. Then you see what happens, on him at that point. One thing is pretty clear though, working him into a dead program isn't helping anybody.

 

3) I don't even care what is going on with Katlyn or any Diva, but holy shit, they didn't even give her a ring entrance, so brutal.

 

4) Punk is taking time off, so the "Punk has lost his smile" gimmick works just fine. Hope this isn't going to be too long a break though. What he does when he gets back though, will be interesting because they don't want him in with Cena, an he's probably not going to want to be in the midcard scene for too long.

 

5) Fandango is over as exactly what he will forever be. A midcard comedy character. Hope he and Santino work well together, I see a lot of dull gimmick matches in our future.

 

6) Lesnar-HHH III.... I wonder what the "secret stipulation" will be this time?

[michgcs]

Hint or tease of a new Punk (What do I do now? Need to rethink this thing...), possible turn (Perhaps after some time off?).

 

I liked an idea someone (I'm not sure where I read it) suggested wherein Cena turned heel at WM and runs roughshod over the WWE's faces, only to meet a returning Punk (who will be greeted with a huge hero's welcome, of course).

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon-- except in my dreams

[Remianen]

As far as WWE's roster goes, I personally want more popular people in the midcard to uppermidcard levels. I want the tag title's to be meaningful, as well as the IC and US titles. I like giving them to people that are potential Main Event material, because it makes me care more, makes the roster feel stronger, etc.

 

Okay...but then you contradict yourself in the next post? How is a prop ever meaningful?

 

It's exactly how I would do it, if I had those resources available to me. I would probably have people like Punk and other's win against them in PPV match's, perhaps underhandedly or however fits, but... I would utilize them to inter-act with the rest of the roster so that sooner or later the other's are seen as on par with them.

 

...

 

Personally, I would have other's defeat them (the part timers). People like Punk, Ziggler, Sheamus (I still like Swagger better, and I can't help comparing Sheamus and Swagger for some reason). I don't know how far I would go with it though, because I wouldn't want to lose the benefits of these part timers.... You can't just have them lose to just anyone. You would have to be careful to keep them looking strong, keep them looking better then whomever they beat to keep that edge, that "bonus" of them being there in the first place.

 

It's actually a trickier situation, the more I think about it. Have them lose to the new guys, and they look washed up. Have them win all the time, and the full timers start looking weak compared to the past. The fun thing is, Rock and Brock are young enough to be around a while, if this injury Rock suffered doesn't make him re-think this "wrestling for fun" stuff... which although he makes good money doing it, it could ruin a great Hollywood career in his future. He's solidly making movie after movie now, and an injury that puts him out of commission for any amount of time could take away some great parts he might have been able to get.

 

Okay chris, what the heck are you saying? You just talked in two circles here. You would have the part timers job to the Dolph Zigglers of the world but then you wouldn't because it would make them look weak?

 

Creative control, chris. They would have to come up with one helluva great storyline for someone like Brock or The Rock to job to Ziggler. Wouldn't happen.

 

The belts are props, to give them something to fight over. Depending on how well they utilize their props/belts, they can help boost someone (Ziggler), or they can seem to hold someone back (Cesaro). However, after all is said and done, they are only props, and no matter if a character happens to hold one or not, it's not the only way to get them over.

 

You're absolutely right. And there was a point last week where the prop Antonio Cesaro held meant more than the prop that Del Rio held, especially after the midcarder took it from him. Look at how the WWE title is treated. Epic encounters between bonafide stars. Punk had it and fought the entire upper card. Rock took it from Punk and it was one of the pillars onto which 'Twice in a lifetime' or whatever the hell they dubbed it, was built on. The WHC has not been booked to be as meaningful. Right now, the top guy in the company is holding the WWE title.....and a guy who was jobbing to the top guys a month ago, is holding the World Heavyweight title. This is not how Money in the Bank winners have been booked in the past. Edge is probably the best example, as he was kept strong all the time he held the briefcase and when he cashed in, it meant something. It's been hit or miss since then.

 

I watched CM Punk's DVD last week and he illustrated what Stennick said. His first two world title reigns were meaningless because he had the title but wasn't the top guy. In fact, one of those times, they took the title from him to toss into another storyline (Batista/Taker? I forget). "We need the title for that program". Really? It's the same thing with Ziggler. No one's banking on him actually producing anything on par with Cena and whoever they toss to the Superman buzzsaw. Hell, Antonio Cesaro has been booked to look better in his matches than Dolph has! If I have to listen to JBL coo over how 'powerful' he is, I think I'll hurl.

 

The problem with the whole 'title is just a prop' thing is there is still a perception among the workers that the person holding the top title is 'the guy'. There is still the belief that the top titleholder should be able to 'draw money'. It just seems to me that the WWE title has been the 'draw money' title and the WHC is 'the other world title'. Look at how it's booked. The WHC title match has not been the main event or even the semi-main since Night of Champions (and before that, you'd have to go all the way back to Vengeance 2011 for the previous time) and it has been the opening match on at least four PPVs within the last year. The main event is for top guys, no? So who's the opening match for?

[Makhai]

Okay...but then you contradict yourself in the next post? How is a prop ever meaningful?

 

 

 

Okay chris, what the heck are you saying? You just talked in two circles here. You would have the part timers job to the Dolph Zigglers of the world but then you wouldn't because it would make them look weak?

 

Creative control, chris. They would have to come up with one helluva great storyline for someone like Brock or The Rock to job to Ziggler. Wouldn't happen.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right. And there was a point last week where the prop Antonio Cesaro held meant more than the prop that Del Rio held, especially after the midcarder took it from him. Look at how the WWE title is treated. Epic encounters between bonafide stars. Punk had it and fought the entire upper card. Rock took it from Punk and it was one of the pillars onto which 'Twice in a lifetime' or whatever the hell they dubbed it, was built on. The WHC has not been booked to be as meaningful. Right now, the top guy in the company is holding the WWE title.....and a guy who was jobbing to the top guys a month ago, is holding the World Heavyweight title. This is not how Money in the Bank winners have been booked in the past. Edge is probably the best example, as he was kept strong all the time he held the briefcase and when he cashed in, it meant something. It's been hit or miss since then.

 

I watched CM Punk's DVD last week and he illustrated what Stennick said. His first two world title reigns were meaningless because he had the title but wasn't the top guy. In fact, one of those times, they took the title from him to toss into another storyline (Batista/Taker? I forget). "We need the title for that program". Really? It's the same thing with Ziggler. No one's banking on him actually producing anything on par with Cena and whoever they toss to the Superman buzzsaw. Hell, Antonio Cesaro has been booked to look better in his matches than Dolph has! If I have to listen to JBL coo over how 'powerful' he is, I think I'll hurl.

 

The problem with the whole 'title is just a prop' thing is there is still a perception among the workers that the person holding the top title is 'the guy'. There is still the belief that the top titleholder should be able to 'draw money'. It just seems to me that the WWE title has been the 'draw money' title and the WHC is 'the other world title'. Look at how it's booked. The WHC title match has not been the main event or even the semi-main since Night of Champions (and before that, you'd have to go all the way back to Vengeance 2011 for the previous time) and it has been the opening match on at least four PPVs within the last year. The main event is for top guys, no? So who's the opening match for?

 

For the history that WHC belt had, adopting the history of the WCW title, you'd think that thing would mean something to them. Especially with the way they reamed Eric Bishoff for giving it to David Arquette. "You treated it like a prop," and what is it to you? Worse, than disgraced... it's irrelevant.

[Jaysin]

For the history that WHC belt had, adopting the history of the WCW title, you'd think that thing would mean something to them. Especially with the way they reamed Eric Bishoff for giving it to David Arquette. "You treated it like a prop," and what is it to you? Worse, than disgraced... it's irrelevant.

 

Except the World Heavyweight Title's lineage begins with Triple H. The US Title has the same lineage as the WCW US title, but WWE has always said the WHC isn't the WCW/NWA World Championship.

 

http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight

[Moe Hunter]

I was referring to the HIAC match that Showtime mentioned. At that time Ryback was still being booked as a juggernaut which meant that CM Punk had to run away from Ryback. Now that they have him in the same position as Sheamus the a rematch or another match against a top opponent would be more even allowing the better worker to control the pace.

 

The HiaC match was just over 11 minutes, bell to bell.

[Makhai]

Except the World Heavyweight Title's lineage begins with Triple H. The US Title has the same lineage as the WCW US title, but WWE has always said the WHC isn't the WCW/NWA World Championship.

 

http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight

 

Interesting.... I've always just assumed. The more you know.

[Comradebot]

Interesting.... I've always just assumed. The more you know.

 

Because knowledge is power!

[Remianen]

For the history that WHC belt had, adopting the history of the WCW title, you'd think that thing would mean something to them. Especially with the way they reamed Eric Bishoff for giving it to David Arquette. "You treated it like a prop," and what is it to you? Worse, than disgraced... it's irrelevant.

 

Except the World Heavyweight Title's lineage begins with Triple H. The US Title has the same lineage as the WCW US title, but WWE has always said the WHC isn't the WCW/NWA World Championship.

 

http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight

 

Yeah, they just use the same (or similar looking) belt. The WHC's life began when Bischoff gave it to Triple H. But when you think about who has held that title in the past, it's a shame that it's now good.....for them to poop on.

 

But I guess this is just one of those 'changing times' things. Like how Ric Flair is (allegedly) a 16-time world champion and John Cena is a 13-time champion, in half the time.

[Makhai]

Yeah, they just use the same (or similar looking) belt. The WHC's life began when Bischoff gave it to Triple H. But when you think about who has held that title in the past, it's a shame that it's now good.....for them to poop on.

 

But I guess this is just one of those 'changing times' things. Like how Ric Flair is (allegedly) a 16-time world champion and John Cena is a 13-time champion, in half the time.

 

Do not remind me that Cena is going to "break" Ric Flair's record.

[milamber]

Raw Highlights:

 

- Lesnar tearing apart 3MB was sick! They should get Heyman to hype every PPV.

- Cesaro vs Kofi was good. Now please use Kofi to get the US belt on Fandango, Big-E or one of the Shield.

- Cripple threat match for the WHC Swagger beats Ziggler, Del Rio brutalises Swagger. People are going to hate this result but I feel it shows WWE Creative are actually putting some effort into this title feud.

- AJ is even hotter holding Ziggy's belt Kaitlyn's tweets are funny.

- "Raw is Generico" sign!

-- Cena getting serious with Ryback was good. Ryback confirmed his heel turn.

 

Raw Lowlights:

 

- Raw crowd was lame after last week. Even Cena got less reaction than usual.

- WWE almost ruined Fandango's heat to show off their social trending prowess.

- Carbon-copy PTP vs Hell No match from Smackdown.

- Twin Magic still works because pointing out boob sizes is not PG.

- Punk's exit was underwhelming.

- Shield run-in was spoiled.

[Makhai]

Raw Highlights:

 

- Lesnar tearing apart 3MB was sick! They should get Heyman to hype every PPV.

- Cesaro vs Kofi was good. Now please use Kofi to get the US belt on Fandango, Big-E or one of the Shield.

- Cripple threat match for the WHC Swagger beats Ziggler, Del Rio brutalises Swagger. People are going to hate this result but I feel it shows WWE Creative are actually putting some effort into this title feud.

- AJ is even hotter holding Ziggy's belt Kaitlyn's tweets are funny.

- "Raw is Generico" sign!

-- Cena getting serious with Ryback was good. Ryback confirmed his heel turn.

 

Raw Lowlights:

 

- Raw crowd was lame after last week. Even Cena got less reaction than usual.

- WWE almost ruined Fandango's heat to show off their social trending prowess.

- Carbon-copy PTP vs Hell No match from Smackdown.

- Twin Magic still works because pointing out boob sizes is not PG.

- Punk's exit was underwhelming.

- Shield run-in was spoiled.

 

 

The crowd was very good on the WWE. Show stunk, they gave it every chance, actually cheered Cena most of the night. Despite some attempts to turn against him. I'm sure the WWE were ecstatic, are looking to book another 200 shows there.

[bigtplaystew]

WHO CARES HOW LONG RYBACK CAN WRESTLE FOR??!?! IT's such a dumb argument. In today's WWE stamina means nothing. They don't wrestle hour-long masterpieces anymore. Why? No one wants to see it that's why.

 

The guy's over whether he wrestles for 20 minutes or wrestles for 5. He's over. IS he going to headline Wrestlemania soemday? Probably not. IS he going to make WWE some money for a couple years? Already has and will probably do so for some time.

[milamber]

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/Fandango_3_zps83957e26.jpg:originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/Fandango_2_zps78e30f2d.jpg:originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/Fandango_4_zpsbcc7442b.jpg:originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/Fandango_1_zpsc793cd71.jpg:original

 

Fandango's theme song makes for some funny videos:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nLZYkfAZrlA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aZfR_8G3pfY

[Makhai]

WHO CARES HOW LONG RYBACK CAN WRESTLE FOR??!?! IT's such a dumb argument. In today's WWE stamina means nothing. They don't wrestle hour-long masterpieces anymore. Why? No one wants to see it that's why.

 

The guy's over whether he wrestles for 20 minutes or wrestles for 5. He's over. IS he going to headline Wrestlemania soemday? Probably not. IS he going to make WWE some money for a couple years? Already has and will probably do so for some time.

 

You say that, but look back through, if you're ME, you're getting ME storylines, which means your match has to tell a story. That takes a lot longer than 5mins. Even when Austin's knees and neck were literally hot-glued on, he worked 11mins at a brisk tempo every time he was top of the bill. Was it the greatest match he's ever put on? no. But he has enough gas left to sell the new way Vinny screws him our of the title. And he's the worst off ME talent the WWE have had in the last 25 years probably.

 

If he's not going to ME, though, then why push him like that in the first place? And as to him making the WWE money. Maybe on merc he's done something impactful. But considering the fact he's been a featured piece of a TV show for 12ish months now. That's what? 6hrs of exposure so far?

 

That kinda network time isn't free. Probably broken even.

[Teh_Showtime]

I can't say I'm surprised since we all know everything revolves around Cena but having Ryback back down from Cena on his very first night as a heel is just plain embarrassing.

 

It's as if Cena disregarding his very valid points (like he does against all of his opponents) and talking down on him while generally being a hypocrite wasn't enough. They had to have the commentary also talk him down and thank goodness JBL was there or it would have been even worse. Now this is a man who for over a month stood up to Mark Henry and for even longer he has fought the Shield by himself 3 on 1. All of a sudden he is backing down from Cena now one week into his heel turn?

 

It's just become normal these days to watch popular babyfaces turn heel in a failed effort to get people cheering Cena because he refuses to change. Ryback doesn't have the benefit of being one of the best wrestlers and speakers like CM Punk does so I fear that he will soon be looked at as a joke after being fed to Cena instead of the promising main event monster he could have been not even a month ago.

[jjohns44]

Id love to hear what Glenn Beck says about people Fandangoing. I wonder if he does it on his show at some point without knowing where it originated from.

[Jaysin]

Yeah, they just use the same (or similar looking) belt. The WHC's life began when Bischoff gave it to Triple H. But when you think about who has held that title in the past, it's a shame that it's now good.....for them to poop on.

 

But I guess this is just one of those 'changing times' things. Like how Ric Flair is (allegedly) a 16-time world champion and John Cena is a 13-time champion, in half the time.

 

The WHC looks almost identical, except it has the WWE logo at the top and it's smaller than the NWA/WCW World Title.

 

I can't remember when they made the jump to a smaller belt because for the longest time it was still the same size as the WCW version, but it's shrunk over the years.

[Teh_Showtime]

The WHC looks almost identical, except it has the WWE logo at the top and it's smaller than the NWA/WCW World Title.

 

I can't remember when they made the jump to a smaller belt because for the longest time it was still the same size as the WCW version, but it's shrunk over the years.

 

I don't know I think it was around the time it had the red strap which the first time I remember seeing that was in 2011 during the Orton vs Christian matches

[Remianen]

Do not remind me that Cena is going to "break" Ric Flair's record.

 

Sorry.

 

- Twin Magic still works because pointing out boob sizes is not PG.

 

OMG I literally laughed out loud on this point because I was thinking the exact same thing! I was like, "Hey ref, that one's flat chested!"

 

WHO CARES HOW LONG RYBACK CAN WRESTLE FOR??!?! IT's such a dumb argument. In today's WWE stamina means nothing. They don't wrestle hour-long masterpieces anymore. Why? No one wants to see it that's why

 

Um, Cena-Michaels from a few years ago was very well received. Then again, it did happen in the UK (which is a much more sophisticated fanbase than stateside).

 

I saw a couple of signs for Paige, which made me chuckle. Britani can actually wrestle. She's got no place in the diva division!

[Jaysin]

I don't know I think it was around the time it had the red strap which the first time I remember seeing that was in 2011 during the Orton vs Christian matches

 

That sounds about right actually.