The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

Just finishes watching Smackdown. Pretty decent show. Man, do Sheamus and Sandow know how to beat the hell out of each other or what! They don't even need a "Dublin Street Fight", they make rest holds look painful. they really do have something going together as I've seen them in quite a few matches that have impressed me. Very old school brawl vibe to their matches. Very fun to watch.

[Rickymex]

<p>The one team I was really looking forward to was the British Ambition from NXT. You had the high flyinf Adrian Neville or Pac who played the part of firey babyface perfectly and Oliver Grey or Joel Redman who provided the technical ability and the more calm approach. Plus while Neville is not bad on the mic he is hard to understand. Oliver on the other hand had a perfect classy british accent. Both of them were British yet they were aso complete opposites. Sadly Grey ended up tearing his ACL after winning the NXT tag titles. Now Adrian doesn't much of a direction apart from being the third member against the Wyatt Family and the one who takes the loss. </p><p> </p><p>

They could have easily been a clear babyface tag team and along with the Usos, PTP and The Shield could have led the tag team division. Hopefully Oliver recovers soon and they are able to return. They would be great champions. Hell I even made some wallpaper to prove it.</p><p> </p><p>

<span>http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss210/ricky696119/BritishAmbition_zpsebcd4859.jpg</span></p>

[RKOwnage]

Anyone think Sandow's got a chance at Money in the Bank? I think he'd be AWESOME with the briefcase and the commentators were putting him over pretty hard on Smackdown during the Dublin Street Fight.

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rickymex" data-cite="Rickymex" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The one team I was really looking forward to was the British Ambition from NXT. You had the high flyinf Adrian Neville or Pac who played the part of firey babyface perfectly and Oliver Grey or Joel Redman who provided the technical ability and the more calm approach. Plus while Neville is not bad on the mic he is hard to understand. Oliver on the other hand had a perfect classy british accent. Both of them were British yet they were aso complete opposites. Sadly Grey ended up tearing his ACL after winning the NXT tag titles. Now Adrian doesn't much of a direction apart from being the third member against the Wyatt Family and the one who takes the loss. <p> </p><p> They could have easily been a clear babyface tag team and along with the Usos, PTP and The Shield could have led the tag team division. Hopefully Oliver recovers soon and they are able to return. They would be great champions. Hell I even made some wallpaper to prove it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Neville should get over quick on his style alone but he needs a good partner. They could pair him with a face Barrett, Christian or Gabriel, and have Regal (who still gets a decent pop from older fans) as their manager.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RKOwnage" data-cite="RKOwnage" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Anyone think Sandow's got a chance at Money in the Bank? I think he'd be AWESOME with the briefcase and the commentators were putting him over pretty hard on Smackdown during the Dublin Street Fight.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I predict either Rhodes and Sandow will unhook the briefcase at the same -- Co-MITB winners would be unique! Or they will get in each others way and Cesaro or Barrett will take advantage and grab the briefcase.</p>

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Neville should get over quick on his style alone but he needs a good partner. They could pair him with a face Barrett, Christian or Gabriel, and have Regal (who still gets a decent pop from older fans) as their manager.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't think Barrett would make a good face at all and I don't want to see Christian stuck in a tag team. I wouldn't mind Gabriel excet they re both high flyers ad I have a feeling Neville would make Gabriel look bad due to the different level of agility they have. Gabriel has the 450 splash but Neville can do 50 flips and twists before landing his move.</p>

[DaMegaFish]

<p>How many people commenting on ADR vs Ziggy from Payback watched the match actually?</p><p> </p><p>

The kicking the head repeatedly was only part of the story. Watching the whole match you saw Ziggler getting treated by doctors (and attacked during those periods by ADR, not to mention ADR's heel mannerisms towards AJ) and still attempting to continue to fight through the brutality of it. It wasn't a turn just because he got kicked in the head, it was a turn because more than anything he wanted to fight to keep his title, and the last kick that sealed his fate is a great wrestling image. Ziggler on his knees, fist up and wanting to fight taking one more kick to the head to end it. </p><p> </p><p>

It's hard not to love a guy who seems to be legitimately trying with every last being to overcome the odds to keep his title, even though shortly in to the match we know the whole thing is like a lamb to slaughter.</p>

[alphadraighon]

<p>I know that not everyone is enjoying the PG Era, and not everyone is a huge fan of the comedic aspects of people like Santino and Hornswoggle.</p><p> </p><p>

But I had a thought I just had to share.</p><p> </p><p>

I would love to see Santino get a manager...and I feel that that manager should be Norman Smiley.</p><p> </p><p>

How awesome was Smiley back in the day? I've been watching his old WCW work online lately, and just can't get enough. Don't know what it is...maybe he was just the right character at the right time for me when I was a kid.</p><p> </p><p>

But looking at his work, could you imagine what he could do with someone like Santino?</p><p> </p><p>

Again, if you don't like the comedy stuff they do these days, that's understandable. I don't typically like it either, but I've come to accept it. So going with that acceptance, why not make it more enjoyable, and bring in someone like Screamin' Norman Smiley?</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe it's just me. But come on...can you picture seeing the Big Wiggle just one more time?</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think I get it, but it's not really nothing to get.<p> </p><p> For a while now there has been part of the IWC trying to figure out things that aren't really hard to figure out, because they are over-thinking everything. I remember Arrows had a few posts like it as well. </p><p> </p><p> In a nut shell some people don't get this one fact as far as Professional Wrestling goes (or even comic books go). This is what they don't get:</p><p> </p><p> If a heel wins by cheating = Bad.</p><p> If a face wins by cheating = Good.</p><p> If a heel trash talks a face = Bad.</p><p> If a face trash talks a heel = Good.</p><p> </p><p> For some reason these facts are hard to understand.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> these facts seem to have been forgotten on the whole Ziggy-ADR double turn.</p>

[Astil]

<p><a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/talkimpact/2013/07/02/raw-is-late" rel="external nofollow">http://www.blogtalkradio.com/talkimpact/2013/07/02/raw-is-late</a></p><p> </p><p>

I led a RAW recap. Hear my thoughts here.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

these facts seem to have been forgotten on the whole Ziggy-ADR double turn.

 

Ziggler was already the face before the match begun with quite a few people, plus all the things that milamber, DaMegaFish and Lazor pointed out that happened in the ring, where Del Rio turned Heel, Ziggler using "heart" to keep going turning him Face. Del Rio, the Heel, took advantage of Ziggler, the Face.

 

If your trying to keep Ziggler as a heel for that match, and Rio as a face, that's where your not understanding things.

[milamber]

Raw Highlights:

 

MITB segment - Average segment, aside from a few funny pot-shots and everyone acting tweenerish.

Shield vs Usos/Christian - Decent match. Shame they're only on the pre-show at MITB.

Ziggler vs Mahal - Post-match was funny. 3MB should be turned and built up to face the Shield and the Wyatts.

Orton vs Kane - Bryan shenanigans FTW!

PTP vs Punk/Axel - Good storytelling. PTP need to turn face or Titus should get a solo push.

Fox vs Kaitlyn - Divas matches are improving. Katie Kaboom Fat Kaitlyn

Rhodes vs Cesaro - Poor Cody. At least Cesaro won a match.

Del Rio vs Cena - Good match. Henry's got Cena scared.

 

Verdict: Weakest Raw in a few weeks. Bryan was the star as usual. Henry promos were good, as were the Past Champion vignettes. The main matches were okay. Rest of the show was average at best. The Canadian crowd sucked.

 

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/braywyatt_zpsf4871d6e.jpg~originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/respectthebeard_zpsabed4b46.jpg~originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/136543161699_zps489e7af3.gif~original

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ziggler was already the face before the match begun with quite a few people, plus all the things that milamber, DaMegaFish and Lazor pointed out that happened in the ring, where Del Rio turned Heel, Ziggler using "heart" to keep going turning him Face. Del Rio, the Heel, took advantage of Ziggler, the Face.<p> </p><p> If your trying to keep Ziggler as a heel for that match, and Rio as a face, that's where your not understanding things.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, well I'm not buying that turn. It turned out well, but it came from nowhere. Oh well.</p>

[The Shape]

<p>Since when was a turn coming from nowhere a problem? If it's going well that's all that matters.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Ziggler is being booked pretty much perfectly as of this week, just being awesome to stay out of trouble and not talking, because he'll always be a natural #heel on the mic.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, well I'm not buying that turn. It turned out well, but it came from nowhere. Oh well.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> it didn't come from nowhere. Ziggler had legit sympathy (on top of already being cheered by portions of the audience as a heel) because he missed over a month due to a concussion and ADR hasn't caught on as a face at all. Really it was something completely obvious that pretty much everyone just overlooked (myself included)</p>

[Astil]

<p>Another wellness suspension.</p><p> </p><p>

<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Ricardo Rodriguez...</span></p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Another wellness suspension.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah...and who would exect him to be the offender? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah...and who would exect him to be the offender? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If it's painkillers...me.</p>

[DaMegaFish]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, well I'm not buying that turn. It turned out well, but it came from nowhere. Oh well.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Wrestling is story telling and believe it or not, sometimes matches are still the best places to tell a story. The double turn is the perfect example of using the match story to pull the turn off in strong fashion. Out of curiosity, have you watched the match? I feel like if you haven't seen the match, the turns and execution are probably harder to put together, but if you saw it and watched the story then it should be a lot easier.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DaMegaFish" data-cite="DaMegaFish" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wrestling is story telling and believe it or not, sometimes matches are still the best places to tell a story. The double turn is the perfect example of using the match story to pull the turn off in strong fashion. Out of curiosity, have you watched the match? I feel like if you haven't seen the match, the turns and execution are probably harder to put together, but if you saw it and watched the story then it should be a lot easier.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> yeah, i saw it, and as i said, it was a good turn, but i guess i would have done it diferently. Anyway, it's wrestling, so, no shocker in how it happened.</p>

[Russelrules44]

<p>RAW 7/1/13 Review.</p><p> </p><p>

The Shield vs The Usos and Christian- Great match, Lots of action, in the end The Shield get back their win. 8.5/10</p><p> </p><p>

Dolph Ziggler vs Jinder Mahal- Dude! Jinder Mahal?! He's been demoted.....just kidding. 6/10</p><p> </p><p>

Randy Orton vs Kane- Good match, Bryan, Funny as always. 7/10</p><p> </p><p>

Primetime Players vs The Paul Heyman Guys (CM Punk and Curtis Axel)- Axel screwed Punk! No other comment. 8/10</p><p> </p><p>

Ryback vs The Miz- Ryback quit?!..........That's it, If he loses come MiTB, Fire up the character burner 3000, Ryback's going in the WWE encyclopedia, other than that, lame duck match. (2/10)</p><p> </p><p>

Kaitlyn vs Alicia Fox- Katie Kaboom? Yes, Trash Kaitlyn? No, Fat Kaitlyn?........WHAT? (5/10)</p><p> </p><p>

Antonio Cesaro vs Cody Rhodes- Nothing to see here, Move along. (3/10 (The 3 mostly were the fact that the match didn't actully suck)</p><p> </p><p>

John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio- Fantastic match! And you say Cena can't wrestle, Del Rio excelled as along. (9.5/10)</p><p> </p><p>

Verdict: B (I thought this was another great RAW, Bryan continues to excell, 3MB can't get a win, AJ Lee is still a crazy bitch and WHAT in the hell is wrong with that Canadian Crowd? It felt like RAW was in an library for god's sakes!</p><p> </p><p>

BTW: You noticed I didn't add any characters this time?.......Well, I decided not to do it this RAW.......Maybe next RAW? Ok? Good.</p><p> </p><p>

Until next time, Have a nice day!</p>

[Eisen-verse]

<p>I caught the clips from yesterday's RAW and one thing really stood out. </p><p> </p><p>

The WWE HAS to be outright giving up on Ryback. I actually was somewhat of a fan with his whole big-bully style with the Miz. Pushing his head around, looking like he was that bigger guy showing that he can do whatever he wants, but then... he quits?</p><p> </p><p>

Miz kicks him in the leg a few times and... he quits?</p><p> </p><p>

That has to be the WEAKEST ending to a match I've ever seen. Someone of Ryback's size should never be booked in that manner. Even if you're not planning a main event run, you pretty much just made him look weaker than a 150 pound cruiserweight.</p><p> </p><p>

Then, they give him a stare-down so he can look 'tough'. Seconds later, it's really used for Jericho to knock him out with a "Code Breaker". Lazy booking. Very lazy booking. </p><p> </p><p>

You really want to sell the story? Ryback is hurt. Has to overcome the pain despite his knee killing him. He continues on; wrestling outright. However, as he goes for his finisher, his knee gives out. You could even have Ryback roll out of the ring; checking on his leg. That said, he never really gets back upright and can't return to the ring. Still a 'cheap win' but a lot better than what we saw. </p><p> </p><p>

Finally, Jericho makes an attack to move their storyline but, instead of landing a code breaker, he hits the one thing that just weakened Ryback. Like a shark to blood, Jericho dives in with a low-drop-kick and takes out Ryback's knee further. That would be a WHOLE HELL of a lot more interesting than what we saw.</p>

[Rickymex]

<p>Yeah that was just awkward considering that last year Ryback killed Miz in a few minutes and now that he's a established main eventer he's displayed like this.</p><p> </p><p>

WWE has a serious problems with portraying babyfaces and heels. Every heel must be a cowardly cheating bastard even if they were kicking ass cleanly right before the turn.</p><p> </p><p>

Worse off are the faces in the WWE. Almost every single good guy is a bully and a d*ck. Especially Sheamus, Cena, and Kaitlyn (before the AJ reveal thing). Sheamus is a bigger bully than the bad guys even through you would imagine that booking a guy who's original babyface gimmick is "I love a good fight". Sheamus main storylines should be that he finds a tough opponent and decides to fight them. Theres no need for those segments between Sandow and Sheamus where Sheamus looks like an idiot and a sore loser who can take a loss. One thing is to be stone cold steve austin who hates the wrestlers, the crowd and only loves beer. SCSA can stunner everyone because the crowd know he will do it to anyone. Sheamus panders to the crowd and randonmly brogues kick people who he first bullies and then loses to. Sheamus is one of the best big heavyweights in the world, he never has a truly bad match and he should be used the same way NJPW uses Togi Makabe. Big Time brawler who just wants to kick ass.</p><p> </p><p>

Sheamus vs Barrett in just a brawl where both of them can show off their toughness by just destroying each other.</p><p> </p><p>

Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro same as above except have Sheamus use his unseen technical skills to neutralize Cesaro power and let Cesaro throw Sheamus around like a rag doll.</p><p> </p><p>

Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan you can always use this match for Daniel Bryan to get some revenge from the 18 second loss and the lost rematch from extreme rules. Both of them can put on an excellent match as they have proven before.</p><p> </p><p>

Sheamus vs Ryback a tough thuggish brawl to make both of them look like the bad asses that they are.</p>

[milamber]

<p>Agree with the above posters regarding the handling of Ryback and Sheamus. I don't understand the Sheamus hate -- his segments are harmless and can be skipped (if you're not watching live). But he should be main eventing and shouldn't be a jokey PG babyface. Ryback is getting de-pushed in a cringe-worthy way. Unless Jericho is turning heel and Ryback face, it's bad booking. The only other way to save Ryback is to have him lose to Jericho, snap and be the beast heel he should be.</p><p> </p><p>

Also I don't mind Fandango walking out of a match like a cowardly heel but he needed a better match after being absent for so long. Henry is the only heel being treated like a badass right now but that won't last long if he can't beat Cena 1-on-1.</p>

[The Shape]

Yeah Raw was absolutely terrible. Sheamus/Fandango was pointless, Ryback has become pathetic and Cody/Cesaro could've been intriguing but instead was equally pointless. Cena/Henry continues to sap all momentum gained in the first promo. Really rough week after a couple of good ones, but Ryback's inexplicable loss is by far the most vexing.

[bigtplaystew]

The Ryback "ouchie i hurt my leg" nonsense was very strange booking indeed. Ryback as a heel has not worked.