The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

Swagger had the gimmick, now they wanted to recreate the Olympic experience for Henry. Repetition is gold in WWE, but you can't just keep doing the exact same thing.

 

And is Cena really 'together' with Bella? I thought all those marriages were keyfabed for that reality show... Seems like an awful coincidence that many people are finding each other while working for the same company.

 

And did they seriously announce CM Punk for the video game? And no one was cheering for it, yet they cheered for about everyone else. They probably thought: "are we allowed to cheer now? Will we be evicted for that?"

 

I think Cena and Nikki Bella are dating in real life. I think the situations they film and air are all fake though. I'm sorry keyfabed. lol.

[milamber]

Raw Review:

 

Opening segment - Smart move kicking off with Ambrose. "I'm not dead!" The whole segment was good. Fantasy booking: Lesnar, Orton, Kane & Rollins vs Cena, Ambrose, Bryan & Reigns at Survivor Series (assuming Bryan & Reigns are fit).

Miz vs Ziggler (Intercontinental Championship) - Good match. I think it's exciting having titles go back and forth when the matches are consistently entertaining. Sandow was the first ever WWE Intercontinental Stunt Champion

Dallas vs Swagger - OK match. Swagger should be feuding with someone higher on the card while he's still over.

Summer vs Natalya - OK match. They should replace Rosa with someone more talented like Naomi.

Ambrose vs Kane - Solid match and brawl.

Sheamus & The Usos vs Cesaro & The Dust Bros - Solid match.

Henry vs Rusev - Henry and Lana's acting skills always lift their segments. Better than their NoC match (which should have been a more even contest).

Slater Gator vs Rose & The Bunny - OK match.

The Nikki Bella vs AJ - Not the worst Bellas segment. Solid match.

Orton vs Cena - Good match with bonus Dean-in-a-Box.

 

Verdict: Best Raw since SummerSlam but only because of Ambrose. Still a lot of room for improvement.

[Mootinie]

It was CM Punk who broke Ryback's streak... And then the Shield started beating him down and he was basically never taken seriously again.

 

Okay, let me show you what killed Ryback. Let's look at this win-loss record throughout his main event run.

 

Hell In A Cell 2012 - He loses to Punk after a Brad Maddox fast count. This was his first defeat and it was just badly timed. With WrestleMania season approaching, everybody knew that Punk was dropping the belt to The Rock so he could drop it to Cena. This would have worked in the 80's, but not 2012.

Survivor Series 2012 - He has a triple threat match against Punk and Cena won until The Shield interfere and put him through a table. Punk steals the win again.

TLC 2012 - Loses to The Shield in an awesome TLC match, but is protected successfully. To his credit, Ryback more than held his own alongside Bryan and Kane.

RAW on January 7th 2013 - Loses to CM Punk in a TLC match after The Shield interfere and put him through a table on to the steel steps. At this point he just gives up on the title and goes after The Shield.

Elimination Chamber 2013 - Loses in a six man tag to The Shield alongside John Cena and Sheamus. A day later he loses AGAIN in a six man tag to The Shield, this time teaming with Chris Jericho and Sheamus.

WrestleMania 29 - Loses to Mark Henry for some reason. He reached the point of no return here, he was dead. He turns heel shortly thereafter, but with no credibility to work with, the audience just treat him like a joke.

Extreme Rules 2013 - Goes to a no contest against new champion John Cena in a Last Man Standing match.

Payback 2013 - Loses to John Cena again in a Three Stages Of Hell match.

 

Finally at Money In The Bank, Ryback picks up a win beating Chris Jericho, although that's no accomplishment because Jericho comes back just to lose. He won matches on RAW and SmackDown but who remembers them? Other than an impressive feat of strength when he shellshocked The Great Khali, I'm hard-pressed to name a TV match that he had during this period.

 

After the Jericho match, he lost to John Cena on RAW in a Tables match and he didn't make another appearance on a PPV until he interfered against CM Punk at Night Of Champions and that was followed by losing 5 matches in 5 to Punk. He lost to him at Battleground, then in a Street Fight on RAW, then two tag matches then finally he lost at Hell In A Cell. In 10 matches, he's beaten Punk just once - that was a tag match on November 5th 2012 when Ryback and Cena beat Punk and Ziggler.

 

His next PPV appearance was Survivor Series '13 where he lost again to a returning face Mark Henry. So, 1 notable win in over a year, that's what killed Ryback.

[bigtplaystew]

Okay, let me show you what killed Ryback...

 

Hey man, preaching to the choir. I think he was handled extremely poorly. My only exception was blaming Cena for it at all.

[masterded]

Cena verbally put over Daniel Bryan every week in the buildup to wrestlemania several times over. And on the show itself. I don't know what to tell you if you missed 8 weeks of buildup to Wrestlemania but it did happen...

 

Cena and Bryan have never had a match at Wrestlemania. Now he did put him over at Summerslam last year. Though it was closer to a 4 week build up. Also I just realized that Cena has lost clean more times at the last 2 Summerslams than he has at all other events combined over the last 4 years.

[Blackman]

The Bella segment wasn't good imo. Is Brie Mode a clothesline (pun intented)? Because her outfits are horrible, but then again: I'm not really a fashionable guy so what would I know.

 

I fast-forwarded a lot but wasn't really entertained... except by Ambrose, who indeed carried the show. All of it.

 

But if people were starting discussions about sudden concrete blocks, this episode will drive them crazy.

[bigtplaystew]

Cena and Bryan have never had a match at Wrestlemania. Now he did put him over at Summerslam last year. Though it was closer to a 4 week build up. Also I just realized that Cena has lost clean more times at the last 2 Summerslams than he has at all other events combined over the last 4 years.

 

Cena verbally put over Daniel Bryan every week in the buildup to wrestlemania several times over. And on the show itself. I don't know what to tell you if you missed 8 weeks of buildup to Wrestlemania but it did happen...

 

I mean I really don't know what else to tell you guys. He talked up Daniel Bryan all during Wrestlemania 30's build a bunch of times. I think that what milamber had originally meant when he said it. I really don't know what else to tell you guys other than that it all DID happen and it wasn't THAT long ago that this should even be an argument...

[Teh_Showtime]

You mean when the crowds were chanting him during his segments?

 

Why even mention something so small when comparing it to actually losing to him clean in a main event?

[masterded]

I mean I really don't know what else to tell you guys. He talked up Daniel Bryan all during Wrestlemania 30's build a bunch of times. I think that what milamber had originally meant when he said it. I really don't know what else to tell you guys other than that it all DID happen and it wasn't THAT long ago that this should even be an argument...

 

You mean when the crowds were chanting him during his segments?

 

Why even mention something so small when comparing it to actually losing to him clean in a main event?

 

I am with you, in no way is that putting someone over. HHH put Bryan over at Wrestlemania, Orton put Bryan over at Wrestlemania, and Batista put Bryan over at Wrestlemania. Cena did not put Bryan over at Wrestlemania or in the build up to Wrestlemania. What Cena did falls in to one of two categories. Either Cena was acknowledging a crowd reaction to quell it so he could continue his promo or he was trying to get a pop from the crowd (for himself).

[Moe Hunter]

I mean I really don't know what else to tell you guys. He talked up Daniel Bryan all during Wrestlemania 30's build a bunch of times. I think that what milamber had originally meant when he said it. I really don't know what else to tell you guys other than that it all DID happen and it wasn't THAT long ago that this should even be an argument...

 

Which is part of the problem first mentioned:

 

"Why do the WWE feel the need to involve John Cena with every hot feud or upcoming star?"

 

Cena had nothing to do with actually making Bryan popular. Leading up to Summerslam everyone already wanted him to go for the title, WWE chose to write it as "Cena picks his opponent, isn't he a nice guy for picking your favourite?" instead of having Bryan earn the shot.

 

Then leading up to WM where Cena had nothing to do with the World Title scene, he still desperately tried to associate himself with the most popular wrestler at the time.

 

There's a huge difference between verbally "putting over" and actually putting someone over in the ring (which yes, he did at Summerslam, that's a grand total of one).

 

Now Cena's attaching himself to Ambrose, much as he has to Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder, and etc.

[Teh_Showtime]

How is Cena attaching himself to Ambrose? He's starting a very clear feud with Rollins because he cant feud with Brock forever. Rollins is attached to the hip with Ambrose and they have a blood feud

 

This isn't even him being Dean's friend like the very visible Ryder case (You like him and he likes me, so please cheer me?). Him and Dean are at odds multiple times and openly dont like each other. They both want Rollins and nothing beyond that

[Rone Rivendale]

I disagree strongly with that last bit. Cena has put over many different people in his promos and it's not just to bring attention to himself.

 

The biggest example is Zack Ryder. As big as Ryder was getting online, I doubt anything would have come of it if not for Cena, the biggest name in WWE, tweeting his support for Ryder to get on Raw. And Cena's storyline involvement with Ryder and Eve didn't kill Ryder's push. What killed Ryder's push was creative doing absolutely nothing with him after that storyline ended.

 

Cena doesn't bury people, Cena does the job that he is told to do. Vince buries people. You never hear stories about Cena the way you did Hogan or Nash or even Stone Cold. He doesn't walk out if he doesn't get the W. He doesn't politic to get his storylines changed so he looks stronger. He does what he's told.

[Teh_Showtime]

You telling me a storyline where they book Ryder as a total geek who gets destroyed every week didnt kill him dead? He became US champ and lost matches on a regular basis. He got destroyed by Kane on a weekly basis to make Kane strong enough for people to care when Cena beat him (they didn't). He's booked to never show anything other than being a total loser and even his best friend is caught kissing his crush while he looks like a geek in a wheelchair watching it happen.

 

Not only this but said best friend is the one who beats the monster who caused all of his pain while he can do nothing about it. Who would want to cheer a guy like this? Why not just cheer Cena who actually handles the baddie and doesn't look like a total joke? Which is exactly what the story was designed to do

[Rickymex]

You telling me a storyline where they book Ryder as a total geek who gets destroyed every week didnt kill him dead? He became US champ and lost matches on a regular basis. He got destroyed by Kane on a weekly basis to make Kane strong enough for people to care when Cena beat him (they didn't). He's booked to never show anything other than being a total loser and even his best friend is caught kissing his crush while he looks like a geek in a wheelchair watching it happen.

 

Not only this but said best friend is the one who beats the monster who caused all of his pain while he can do nothing about it. Who would want to cheer a guy like this? Why not just cheer Cena who actually handles the baddie and doesn't look like a total joke? Which is exactly what the story was designed to do

 

This is basically what Ryder said in his interview with Jericho. They never even let Ryder get at least some revenge on Kane.

[TheOmniWarrior]

I disagree strongly with that last bit. Cena has put over many different people in his promos and it's not just to bring attention to himself.

 

The biggest example is Zack Ryder. As big as Ryder was getting online, I doubt anything would have come of it if not for Cena, the biggest name in WWE, tweeting his support for Ryder to get on Raw. And Cena's storyline involvement with Ryder and Eve didn't kill Ryder's push. What killed Ryder's push was creative doing absolutely nothing with him after that storyline ended.

 

Cena doesn't bury people, Cena does the job that he is told to do. Vince buries people. You never hear stories about Cena the way you did Hogan or Nash or even Stone Cold. He doesn't walk out if he doesn't get the W. He doesn't politic to get his storylines changed so he looks stronger. He does what he's told.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9FrSjPqgxs

[bigtplaystew]

I am with you, in no way is that putting someone over. HHH put Bryan over at Wrestlemania, Orton put Bryan over at Wrestlemania, and Batista put Bryan over at Wrestlemania. Cena did not put Bryan over at Wrestlemania or in the build up to Wrestlemania. What Cena did falls in to one of two categories. Either Cena was acknowledging a crowd reaction to quell it so he could continue his promo or he was trying to get a pop from the crowd (for himself).

 

OK, All Im trying to say is when MILAMBER originally said "Cena put over Bryan at WM" and it was met with bewilderment, this is what he meant. The verbal put overs. If you say "no! they dont count! cena sucks!" and stick your fingers in your ears then o.k. That's your opinion I guess. But I promise you any wrestler who uses the term "put over", while most commonly associated with doing the job for someone, can also mean it to encompass verbal praise in both worked and shoot promos. I'm not going to argue that point any further because it just is what it is. I never acted like John Cena is the guy who put Bryan on the map. I'm just saying this DID happen.

 

As far as your two reasons for Cena doing it, I think you're wrong. I think John Cena talked about Bryan too often at too much length for it to have simply been to quell a chant to continue his promo. Besides, WWE superstars typically plow through whatever drivel is written for them no matter what the crowd thinks/says. And I disagree with your "he was just doing it for himself" assessment of that scenario. John Cena did not mention DB solely to get a cheap two second pop for himself. He can get a cheap pop in his sleep. He doesn't now and never did NEED to mention Bryan to get a pop for himself. If he truly wanted to bury Bryan he simply would have never mentioned him. I think what was happening seemed obvious to me, although I could be wrong. But I think they (meaning the people who book WWE... which is probably not John Cena himself) used Cena to give Bryan a rub to the casuals, as have many companies many times with many babyfaces going into many marquee shows. YOU may not think Bryan needed a rub from Cena, but WWE almost certainly would have thought so if we're to believe they didn't have a ton of faith in Bryan in the first place.

 

 

Which is part of the problem first mentioned:

 

"Why do the WWE feel the need to involve John Cena with every hot feud or upcoming star?"

 

Cena had nothing to do with actually making Bryan popular. Leading up to Summerslam everyone already wanted him to go for the title, WWE chose to write it as "Cena picks his opponent, isn't he a nice guy for picking your favourite?" instead of having Bryan earn the shot.

 

Then leading up to WM where Cena had nothing to do with the World Title scene, he still desperately tried to associate himself with the most popular wrestler at the time.

 

There's a huge difference between verbally "putting over" and actually putting someone over in the ring (which yes, he did at Summerslam, that's a grand total of one).

 

Now Cena's attaching himself to Ambrose, much as he has to Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder, and etc.

 

So John Cena books WWE's top storylines. This is what you're telling me with 100% certainty? That this is all John Cena forcing himself on the Dean Ambrose/Authority feud?

[Jaysin]

Prince Devitt's WWE name is apparently Finn Balor and according to prowrestling.net, he had say in the name.

 

http://www.prowrestling.net/article.php?WWE-News-Fergal-Prince-Devitt-s-new-NXT-name-39054

[Teh_Showtime]

Balor is a pretty cool name I've discovered but I guess Finn is decent since these days everyone needs first/last

 

Personally Balor could have worked on its own

[The Swanton825]

Prince Devitt's WWE name is apparently Finn Balor and according to prowrestling.net, he had say in the name.

 

http://www.prowrestling.net/article.php?WWE-News-Fergal-Prince-Devitt-s-new-NXT-name-39054

 

Well you can't exactly trust a guy named Fergal to know what a decent name is.

[Jaysin]

Well you can't exactly trust a guy named Fergal to know what a decent name is.

 

It's not his fault is parents have weird taste in names.

 

I'm now waiting for Kevin Steen to be named Jake something or other and them be a tag team so they can be Jake and Finn.

[foolinc]

Balor is a pretty cool name I've discovered but I guess Finn is decent since these days everyone needs first/last

 

Personally Balor could have worked on its own

 

It's really only a matter of time before Devitt is going by the name Prince Balor (which sounds awesome).

 

On the same note, I give WWE 5 months before Hideo Itami gets chanced to either HIDEO or ITAMI.

[The Swanton825]

It's not his fault is parents have weird taste in names.

 

I'm now waiting for Kevin Steen to be named Jake something or other and them be a tag team so they can be Jake and Finn.

 

I would pay so much money to see that.

[breakingkayfabe]

they will probably give Kevin Steen some kind of generic pizza man delivery guy name or something.

 

I don't know about everybody else i'm just speaking for myself but the name Finn Balor sounds so terrible.. like why does WWE not just let these guys keep their name instead of changing them and watering them down?

[Teh_Showtime]

The name Dolph Ziggler got over, it's not a death sentence

 

I'm a guy who has been watching KENTA for example for nearly a decade. It'll take getting used to yeah, but I got used to Tyler Black's name change too. It's not really a big deal like these guys are getting "Mcgullicuttied" left and right. The names aren't bad at all

[Mootinie]

Like why does WWE not just let these guys keep their name instead of changing them and watering them down?

 

So, i) they can copyright it and use it for merchandising purposes and ii) To separate Fergal Devitt the person from the wrestler you see on your screen. Remember, it wasn't C.J. Perry that accidentally made reference to Russia's involvement in that air disaster, it was Rusev's manager and valet, Lana.