The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

At this point in my mind, there's absolutely no doubt that Cena is going to give it his all against Brock, come up just short, and then end Rusev's undefeated streak. I just think it's a foregone conclusion honestly. Then that leads to Rusev's path down the road to obscurity, just like it did to Umaga and maybe a couple of others.

 

I feel like Rusev is being built up to feed to Reigns. I expect Cena will be feuding with Rollins next, which is ideal because they've already had good matches together and Rollins can cheat to win because it's part of his character.

[lazorbeak]

Booking that match at Summerslam the way they did it was a mistake. It just was.

 

Long story short, I don't agree with any of this. Anything different is worth a try, and I really enjoyed that match a lot. After underdog stories where Cena lost to the Rock but only after a back and forth match, or lost to Bray only after mountains of interference from demon children, it was great to see him just flat out beaten in the ring.

[bigtplaystew]

Long story short, I don't agree with any of this. Anything different is worth a try, and I really enjoyed that match a lot. After underdog stories where Cena lost to the Rock but only after a back and forth match, or lost to Bray only after mountains of interference from demon children, it was great to see him just flat out beaten in the ring.

 

Yep. It was a move done to please the IWC/hardcore fans/smart marks (whatever name isn't offending us this week) and shock the casuals. So us liking it is what they're going for. Awesome. You got the internet to not be mad at you for one whole day, WWE. They were crying about RAW the next night btw.

 

In terms of shocking the casuals and getting talked about, it was fairly effective. Not overly so. Not so much that you should have risked your top guy like that IMO. And it will all be for naught with the IWC/hardcores/smart marks because they are going to cry the next time Cena wins anyway. Because after all, why should the star of the television show you watch be victorious all the time?? That's not how TV is done!

 

I'd be more behind the dominant booking if like i said it was a one and done match but the way it stands I haven't liked it yet and it isn't turning around for me. So we'll just have to see how it all plays out at NoC.

[lazorbeak]

Yeah, you're right, the WWE should've been on autopilot for another dozen years, at least. Build up to Cena vs. Orton.

[djthefunkchris]

Yep. It was a move done to please the IWC/hardcore fans/smart marks (whatever name isn't offending us this week) and shock the casuals. So us liking it is what they're going for. Awesome. You got the internet to not be mad at you for one whole day, WWE. They were crying about RAW the next night btw.

 

In terms of shocking the casuals and getting talked about, it was fairly effective. Not overly so. Not so much that you should have risked your top guy like that IMO. And it will all be for naught with the IWC/hardcores/smart marks because they are going to cry the next time Cena wins anyway. Because after all, why should the star of the television show you watch be victorious all the time?? That's not how TV is done!

 

I'd be more behind the dominant booking if like i said it was a one and done match but the way it stands I haven't liked it yet and it isn't turning around for me. So we'll just have to see how it all plays out at NoC.

 

I actually agree with your points, mainly because I understand the thought of "One and Done" that you've said a few times. Makes the rest of your points very legit in my head.

 

Plus, if it was a one off or the end of the feud, I think I would have enjoyed that match even more (I am one of the people that liked it).

 

On the flip side, I felt like this was the perfect way to show a 100% Lesnar (Heyman said the first time Cena went against him, he was hurt and was only like 30%), the Lesnar that beat the streak. On the flip side, I feel like this was totally legit on WWE's half, bringing Brock in way stronger then when he first showed up (Lesnar vs HHH, Lesnar vs Cena).

 

The only other thing I can really say is, I do think Cena has reached the pinnacle of celebrity status that he can, as just a Wrestler. Everyone knows who John Cena is, the only thing that would make him more popular is if he become a huge movie star, and I sincerely doubt that's on his plate, much less if he could actually be that effective at it (Not that he's a bad actor, more like he's not really a good actor).

 

So unless he starts jobbing out to Zack Ryder or something, I'm not going to believe they are going to hurt his star power by losing to the most dominant person on the roster (who's star power is pretty impressive as well).

 

Me personally, I could have been behind Lesnar squash match's from now til' Wrestlemania. Heck, I could get behind it if they had him at each PPV for the next year and a half leading up to the Wrestlemania after this one. Fantasy booking: Lesnar squash's all for the next year, and Cena is told right off the bat that he isn't getting another shot at Lesnar. This goes on until the following Wrestlemania, as it gets closer, and the "Authority" has no one else to legitimately face Lesnar, so reluctantly almost beg Cena to face him one more time. If Cena is worth it, then I would put him over, and have him look tougher then he has ever looked before going into the match.

 

I think the pay off for something planned well that far in advance would actually give those two one of their biggest paydays ever.

[milamber]

NXT Review:

 

Segments - Bayley confronted Charlotte. Breeze, Kidd, Zayn & Neville cut effective promos. Kidd's was the pick of the bunch.

Bliss vs Charlotte, Breeze vs Dillinger, Kidd vs Rose, Zayn vs Louis & Parker vs Neville - All solid squash matches to put over the important wrestlers heading into Takeover in 2 Darkness.

Luchadors vs Vaudevillians (#1 Contenders) - Solid match that should have lasted a few more minutes. The Luchas won as I predicted.

 

Verdict: They crammed a lot into the go-home show and made it work. Better than 3 hours of Raw.

 

 

Enzo, Big Cass & Carmella segment:

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=713266672056233&set=vb.111122042270702&type=2&theater

[Teh_Showtime]

Enzo and Cass killed it in their segment plus the debut of Carmella (who is tha princess of Staten Island). I wouldnt mind if they played those guys as a more modern version of the FBI just with the Jersey Shore influence of this generation as opposed to the Sopranos/Mafia influence of the last generation

 

I really, really liked Kidd's promo as well

[Jaysin]

Enzo is my favorite act in all of wrestling right now. Followed by Tyson Kidd and Tyler Breeze. Everything Enzo says just sounds like you need to pay attention no matter what he's saying.

 

"What's a sasquatch?"

[Rickymex]

Enzo is my favorite act in all of wrestling right now. Followed by Tyson Kidd and Tyler Breeze. Everything Enzo says just sounds like you need to pay attention no matter what he's saying.

 

"What's a sasquatch?"

 

Dude is just charismatic in every way and Cass makes a nice counterpart for him. I'm just sad that they will go to RAW one day and just be treated like shit because Dunn or McMahon don't like them.

[Mootinie]

Everything Enzo says just sounds like you need to pay attention no matter what he's saying.

 

AND YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT!

[milamber]

AND YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT!

 

Leforte's haircut at Takeover 2 will cost... ZERO DIMES!

[smurphy1014]

AND YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT!

 

HOW YOU DOIN?!?!?!?!?!?!

[bigtplaystew]

I actually agree with your points, mainly because I understand the thought of "One and Done" that you've said a few times. Makes the rest of your points very legit in my head.

 

Plus, if it was a one off or the end of the feud, I think I would have enjoyed that match even more (I am one of the people that liked it).

 

On the flip side, I felt like this was the perfect way to show a 100% Lesnar (Heyman said the first time Cena went against him, he was hurt and was only like 30%), the Lesnar that beat the streak. On the flip side, I feel like this was totally legit on WWE's half, bringing Brock in way stronger then when he first showed up (Lesnar vs HHH, Lesnar vs Cena).

 

The only other thing I can really say is, I do think Cena has reached the pinnacle of celebrity status that he can, as just a Wrestler. Everyone knows who John Cena is, the only thing that would make him more popular is if he become a huge movie star, and I sincerely doubt that's on his plate, much less if he could actually be that effective at it (Not that he's a bad actor, more like he's not really a good actor).

 

So unless he starts jobbing out to Zack Ryder or something, I'm not going to believe they are going to hurt his star power by losing to the most dominant person on the roster (who's star power is pretty impressive as well).

 

Me personally, I could have been behind Lesnar squash match's from now til' Wrestlemania. Heck, I could get behind it if they had him at each PPV for the next year and a half leading up to the Wrestlemania after this one. Fantasy booking: Lesnar squash's all for the next year, and Cena is told right off the bat that he isn't getting another shot at Lesnar. This goes on until the following Wrestlemania, as it gets closer, and the "Authority" has no one else to legitimately face Lesnar, so reluctantly almost beg Cena to face him one more time. If Cena is worth it, then I would put him over, and have him look tougher then he has ever looked before going into the match.

 

I think the pay off for something planned well that far in advance would actually give those two one of their biggest paydays ever.

 

Here's my thoughts: I liked the Summerslam match too. It was something different and it was surprising. It was fun to watch and a well played story. Good match for sure. I don't have a problem with the match. I had a problem with the decision to book it that way . At least as of right this minute in it's current context.

 

So as far as the bolded part of your post is concerned I'm not worried about John Cena losing a ton of popularity and falling down the card. Like Hogan, no matter how unsuccessful he is he'll still be a major draw for the rest of his life and simply will stand out on his own as long as he wrestles. He'll never be "just another guy" in that locker room. Period. My issue is you have this talent and instead of coming up with something new and fresh and interesting with him you're doing... this. I just don't like it. But like I said before it's right now. Who knows how this plays out? We all have rumors and dirt sheet info but come March maybe there is a super awesome story this is all building up to. If something similar to your fantasy booking scenario played out I think it would make a lot more sense to treat Cena this way currently. But if that wrestlemania story is Roman Reigns finally toppling the unstoppable, 100% physically healthy Brock Lesnar that dominated Cena (presumably twice by that point) and ended Undertaker's streak... then I would strongly disagree with anyone calling that "super awesome".

 

Reigns is good. But he's not "sacrifice Undertaker and Cena (and eventually Lesnar) in the same year to give this guy a rub" good. It's just not effective use of the talent at hand IMO.

[milamber]

Smackdown Review:

 

Opening segment - Standard Cena promo. Kane and Rollins interrupted him and Cena retorted with jokes. Cue Reigns to challenge Kane and Rollins. Kane brought out the Wyatts so out came Jericho, Show & Henry to shift the odds. Cue Triple H doing a terrible but funny Teddy Long impression to set up a 5v5 tag match. Just like Raw the opening segment went on too long.

Ziggler vs Cesaro - Good match. Cesaro dominated 2/3 of the match before Ziggler fought back and got a lucky pin. Cesaro beat down Ziggler and Sheamus Brogue Kicked him.

Jimmy Uso vs Slater - Solid match won by Jimmy.

Rusev, Lana & Henry - The usual Lana promo before Henry challenged Rusev again. Henry called Lana an escort. A tough babyface like Henry doesn't need to resort to non-PG insults.

Brie vs Paige - I like Brie's new entrance music. Solid match. AJ & Nikki were on commentary. AJ was good, Nikki wisely kept silent. Brie was taking charge of the match when AJ attacked Nikki. Brie instinctively defended her. Paige delivered the RamPaige on Brie to win. Given my distaste of merging the 2 feuds this was a decent segment.

Dallas vs Ryder - Squash match. Bo needs to start using an exposed turnbuckle to win like he did on NXT and he needs a better finisher. Bo took the mickey out of Swagger and the two fought with Swagger standing strong. Best line of the show from Bo: "Since you all live in Nebraska, something terrible has obviously happened to you in your life."

Cena, Reigns, Jericho, Show & Henry vs Kane, Rollins & The Wyatt Family - Good match. Nothing spectacular but it lasted for about 20 minutes before ending with a brawl and the babyfaces all hitting their finishers.

 

Verdict: An improvement on recent shows but Smackdown is nowhere near as good as it was last year.

[Croquemitaine]

Henry called Lana an escort. A tough babyface like Henry doesn't need to resort to non-PG insults.

This really bothered me. Not so much that he called her an escort, but just the whole "Shut up/know your place, woman!" vibe to it. Of course, on the "wrestling angles that are disrespectful of women"-scale, it barely rates a 1, but that doesn't excuse it.

[DaMegaFish]

Smackdown Review:

 

Opening segment - Standard Cena promo. Kane and Rollins interrupted him and Cena retorted with jokes. Cue Reigns to challenge Kane and Rollins. Kane brought out the Wyatts so out came Jericho, Show & Henry to shift the odds. Cue Triple H doing a terrible but funny Teddy Long impression to set up a 5v5 tag match. Just like Raw the opening segment went on too long.

Ziggler vs Cesaro - Good match. Cesaro dominated 2/3 of the match before Ziggler fought back and got a lucky pin. Cesaro beat down Ziggler and Sheamus Brogue Kicked him.

Jimmy Uso vs Slater - Solid match won by Jimmy.

Rusev, Lana & Henry - The usual Lana promo before Henry challenged Rusev again. Henry called Lana an escort. A tough babyface like Henry doesn't need to resort to non-PG insults.

Brie vs Paige - I like Brie's new entrance music. Solid match. AJ & Nikki were on commentary. AJ was good, Nikki wisely kept silent. Brie was taking charge of the match when AJ attacked Nikki. Brie instinctively defended her. Paige delivered the RamPaige on Brie to win. Given my distaste of merging the 2 feuds this was a decent segment.

Dallas vs Ryder - Squash match. Bo needs to start using an exposed turnbuckle to win like he did on NXT and he needs a better finisher. Bo took the mickey out of Swagger and the two fought with Swagger standing strong. Best line of the show from Bo: "Since you all live in Nebraska, something terrible has obviously happened to you in your life."

Cena, Reigns, Jericho, Show & Henry vs Kane, Rollins & The Wyatt Family - Good match. Nothing spectacular but it lasted for about 20 minutes before ending with a brawl and the babyfaces all hitting their finishers.

 

Verdict: An improvement on recent shows but Smackdown is nowhere near as good as it was last year.

 

I was at Smackdown, and the Bo Dallas line was amazing...as was Lana's line about if America had a heart it would be made in China. Both of those lines actually drew some cheers from the crowd.

 

Anyone else notice Lana looks like she about to crack up when the insults start flying?

[Kitarzu]

I was at Smackdown, and the Bo Dallas line was amazing...as was Lana's line about if America had a heart it would be made in China. Both of those lines actually drew some cheers from the crowd.

 

Anyone else notice Lana looks like she about to crack up when the insults start flying?

 

Probably WWE found out a diamond in the rough. In terms of entertainment skills, she's only behind Stephanie McMahon and AJ Lee.

[djthefunkchris]

This really bothered me. Not so much that he called her an escort, but just the whole "Shut up/know your place, woman!" vibe to it. Of course, on the "wrestling angles that are disrespectful of women"-scale, it barely rates a 1, but that doesn't excuse it.

 

Honestly think, for example, if Heyman was Rusov's manager, what come out of his mouth would have been a whole lot worse then what he said to Lana. If it were someone like The Rock or Austin in Henry's place, imagine what one of them would have said.

[Rickymex]

Honestly think, for example, if Heyman was Rusov's manager, what come out of his mouth would have been a whole lot worse then what he said to Lana. If it were someone like The Rock or Austin in Henry's place, imagine what one of them would have said.

 

Henry probably the most decent of the WWE babyfaces so hopefully that was just a one shot deal.

[Croquemitaine]

Honestly think, for example, if Heyman was Rusov's manager, what come out of his mouth would have been a whole lot worse then what he said to Lana. If it were someone like The Rock or Austin in Henry's place, imagine what one of them would have said.

You have completely missed the point.

[djthefunkchris]

You have completely missed the point.

 

What point did I miss exactly? He said "women didn't I tell you run off the mouth too much. The question is, will he accept his challenge, or will he hide behind that woman who looks like an escort."

 

He's been saying all along he's not talking to Lana, but to Rusov. He want's a responce from Rusov not Lana. There was nothing to me that sounded like it was only because she was a woman that he wanted to talk to Rusov. TO ME, it sounded like he wanted to talk to the person that is competing, not to his manager that only talks about how great Russia is and how bad USA is in comparison. To me, it's more of a USA vs Russia thing then a "woman, shut your mouth and know your role" thing.

 

I only brought up Rock and Austin because I know they would have been more creative in terms of what they called her, and it would have been gender specific, but most would realize that it was because she was talking crap they don't want her to say, not because she is a woman.

 

The vibe to me hasn't been "Shut up and know your place, woman!", but "Quit talking mess about the USA and let the actual competitor I want to fight talk!"

 

I'm quite enjoying them (Lana and Rusov), and I never want to see him without her, because I think she adds everything to his character. I love the way she comes out and poses. I love her delivery with what sounds like a fake accent, I love the look on her face when everyone starts chanting USA, and I agree with the other guy that said she is one of the top Diva's on the mic.

 

Story line wise though Mark Henry, an Olympian for the USA, is tired of hearing her talk badly about the USA. He don't want to talk to her, he wants to talk to Rusov. Has nothing to do with her being a woman and knowing her role, but everything to do with her attitude toward his country, and wanting to talk (and compete against) Rusov, not Lana. Disrespect Rusov's mouthpiece/manager and perhaps that will get Rusov's attention.

[sebsy]

Who is this Rusov?

[Croquemitaine]

What point did I miss exactly? He said "women didn't I tell you run off the mouth too much. The question is, will he accept his challenge, or will he hide behind that woman who looks like an escort."

The point that's right there in this sentence you typed.

 

It's fine to dismiss a manager as a loud-mouth, but you can bet if it had been Paul Heyman in the ring Henry wouldn't have done it by referencing his gender and clothing. He wouldn't have called Heyman a whore.

 

And it's not like Lana's character (at least recently, I've only been watching WWE again for about a month) is doing anything sexual which might justify or at least explain taking that tack. She doesn't distract other wrestlers with her body during matches. She doesn't seduce authority figures to get title shots. She doesn't do any of the things that "slutty" managers do. All she does is wear a short skirt. Well guess what, she's still showing less skin than 90% of the performers who appeared on that program (including Mark Henry).

 

So basically the message there was "If you wear a short skirt, you are a whore."

 

Well done, WWE. Well done.

[Dawn]

Who is this Rusov?

 

Rusov for president.

[Hashasheen]

http://shop.wwe.com/CM-Punk/cmpunk,default,sc.html

 

Massive CM Punk sale going on. Probably because of the lawsuit over royalties.