The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[juggaloninjalee]

I was referring to the pipe in of crowd noise to drown out the yes chants on Smackdown and this past Raw that someone mentioned. I don't think WWE is burying him or sending him back to midcard. I just want them to run with what has happened. The shirt they released was just a quick throw together shirt. People have photoshopped better ones and before that one even came out.

 

The loss at Mania didn't even bother me that much as I wanted to see where they were going with this. I am still waiting to see where things are going but hopefully they don't miss a great opportunity with him while the crowds are hot for him.

 

He's been pushed farther than I ever thoughts they would so as long as he is used regularly I am happy at this point. I do think he could one day be one of the most memorable top guys this company ever had though. He has charisma that many people under estimate.

[djthefunkchris]

I was referring to the pipe in of crowd noise to drown out the yes chants on Smackdown and this past Raw that someone mentioned. I don't think WWE is burying him or sending him back to midcard. I just want them to run with what has happened. The shirt they released was just a quick throw together shirt. People have photoshopped better ones and before that one even came out.

 

The loss at Mania didn't even bother me that much as I wanted to see where they were going with this. I am still waiting to see where things are going but hopefully they don't miss a great opportunity with him while the crowds are hot for him.

 

He's been pushed farther than I ever thoughts they would so as long as he is used regularly I am happy at this point. I do think he could one day be one of the most memorable top guys this company ever had though. He has charisma that many people under estimate.

 

Yeah, I agree big time on the charisma part. Without really trying to sound corny, he kind of oozes it even as a heel... Kind of like a devilish grin that lets everyone in on what he's doing, and it's also a little part of in-ring psychology, performed outside of the ring as well.

 

He's definitely a ball of dynamite, a package of talent... small package is all. His size makes him a definite like-able character for children (when Face, like Mysterio sort of), and his skill makes him believably get over much bigger opponents, I just can't say enough of this guy to be honest. I liked him before, but as a heel, I'm really liking him. I feel like he held back quite a bit during his face run.... and even now it "feels" like he's waiting for the right moment to shine.

 

I don't think they have to do anything "right now" though.. as I feel they can repeat this stuff, make it look real, get the same sort of reaction, and THEN take advantage of it, when they are ready for it.

 

There is so much they have been doing right in the last couple of years, that it's getting hard for me to believe anything is not already "Planned" though. This thing that happened at Wrestlemania... I'm starting to think they planned it to happen and at most, got a better reaction from it then they were expecting. Every step of the way there was someone shouting "They Blew It", but everything had to be planned for it to end up so perfect.

[The Final Countdown]

Earlier today, I was thinking "How cool would it be if they had a Piper's Pit with Daniel Bryan on this Legends episode?"

 

Mind=blown.

[djthefunkchris]

Earlier today, I was thinking "How cool would it be if they had a Piper's Pit with Daniel Bryan on this Legends episode?"

 

Mind=blown.

 

On twitter, Piper's talked about Bryan. I think he's a legit fan, and probably wanted to do that with Bryan.

[Guest codey]

Kane's family reunion line had me cracking up. It reminded of old school Arnold Schwarzenegger one liners with the cheesiness of it!

[BHK1978]

Watching the Mean Gene/Sheamus vs. Del Rio/Daniel Bryan match gave me a sense of, as Yogi Berra would say, "Déjà vu all over again." I still remember watching one of those videos from the 1980's where they had him tagging with Hogan.

 

I am just glad this time they did not have us watch him training.

[Guest codey]

Sheamus as a face isn't ad, but face Sheamus with mic time is muy terrible. These boy scout promos of his are cringe worthy.

[milamber]

Johnny Ace making Sheamus his b***h was funny. $500,000 fine

 

Ryback is intense but he can't squash local talent forever.

 

Usos v Kidd & Slater - Good use of some underrated SD midcarders.

 

Bryan on Piper's Pit - "18 seconds" chants and Yes signs! 2 our of 3 falls match at ER! Bryan's smug look when AJ sucked up to him! Piper telling Bryan his "no list"! Great segment.

 

Weak SD as expected but I'm enjoying the build-up to Extreme Rules.

[ChrisKid]

haven't watch SD yet but Three Stooges (never heard of them) were awful on RAW, only positive is i am really starting to legit hate Chris Jericho in the Punk/Jericho fued

[Guest codey]

Wait, you've never heard of The Three Stooges!? They're comedy legends!

[crownsy]

santino looks like he could pull of the legit fighter very well....why stick him with a comedy act?

 

Two big reasons:

 

1) because they have about 5-6 guys who do the legit fighter act who look more like killing machines

 

2) he is insanely over with the live crowd with his comedy act. He's a valuable cool down act for the crowd in between "serious" matches.

[Stennick]

So everyone is in agreeance this Foley/Ambrose feud is the best thing in the WWE right? The promos that could come from both sides of this are great. In a way its what Flair/Foley should have been if Flair wasn't a crazy, sixty year old bastard who I think long ago forgot this is a work. Anyway Ambrose this kid has it I think.

[djthefunkchris]

So everyone is in agreeance this Foley/Ambrose feud is the best thing in the WWE right? The promos that could come from both sides of this are great. In a way its what Flair/Foley should have been if Flair wasn't a crazy, sixty year old bastard who I think long ago forgot this is a work. Anyway Ambrose this kid has it I think.

 

lol.

 

My serious thoughts on the hottest thing right now... The abuse of Cena.

 

I already said I believe Cena is a "HEEL" right now... and it's opposite what people are thinking.... "For a face, he sure gets boo'd a lot!" I say it's opposite, for a "Heel" he sure gets cheered a lot.

 

I see him getting his butt kicked over and over this year. Perhaps by next Wrestlemania they will turn him Face. Right now though, I think he's been playing a unique version of a heel. He doesn't outright say "You all are idiots, your opinion's don't matter!"... no, He says "I respect each and every one of you, love me or hate me, that's your view and I respect that. I know how you want me to react, but I'm above that." Which in itself generates heat. Isn't he basically saying "Your opinion doesn't count because I'm staying the same!" Right now, the way his character is... Lesnar could go to his home, beat up his whole family and sleep with his wife, and Cena would "Rise Above" all that, and say something like "I still respect Lesnar."

 

So, to me the hottest thing right now is the destruction of John Cena. That's whats going to sell seats right now. Have him lose until people get bored of it, then change him face.

[Teh_Showtime]

I don't think Cena is a heel in any since of the word. Their actions determine the character, not crowd reaction. Not many heels butt heads with the head authority, even legit heels who didnt cheat.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't think Cena is a heel in any since of the word. Their actions determine the character, not crowd reaction. Not many heels butt heads with the head authority, even legit heels who didnt cheat.

 

I say he is a "modern day" heel. A new type, that isn't obvious about it. He does everything "Right", he's a boy scout dufus, the type of Superman everyone hates.... perfect in every way. I say he's been playing that part for over a year, intentionally.

 

It's began to be so obvious to me, that I cannot fathom the whole WWE creative team to not see it themselves.... I (and just about everyone on here) has ton's of idea's that would have made Cena get more cheers then the person he's up against, no matter if it's Lesnar, Rock, whomever... IF he would just get upset and "attitudinal" for more then one segment. We all know he can play that role 100% of the time, he has in the past. The whole reason people want to see him as a heel (thinking he's a face right now) is because they want to see that part of him. I say... that part of him is going to be a face.

 

It's all part of the plan, it has to be. Over and over, now is the time to have Cena lose more then he has ever lost before... Then if they want him to stay heel, he will "Rise Above"...

 

It's no different then Chris Jericho, just not as obvious. Everytime he says "No, I'm not going to act like that!" Cena is telling us "I am better then you!"

[bigtplaystew]

But people cheer Cena.

[Zeel1]

So he's a bad guy because he's too much of a good guy to be a bad guy?

[djthefunkchris]

But people cheer Cena.

Yeah, same way people cheer other's that are heels... He's playing the part though, just in a different way.

 

So he's a bad guy because he's too much of a good guy to be a bad guy?

I've read twitters of WWE people talking, IWC forums, everyone knows what they think it would "Take" to make Cena into a more like-able face... But WWE does the exact Opposite. Think about it... you think they really don't know what's going on? You think they don't "Intentionally" force him this way on us? I think that's one of the biggest complaints "They keep forcing him in our face!"

 

Look at how he talks to us... "I know what you want, but I'm not going that route... I'm a better man then that!" What's that really saying? "I don't care what you want, because you don't matter. I am going to keep doing things this way, because I am BETTER Then you!" That's what he is saying.

 

As I said, at this point, someone could go sleep with his wife, and he would just say something like "Well, she must have seen something in him... something I'm lacking. It's not his fault, it's my fault. I can only try to do better next time."

 

He is the "Super" boyscout... The Superman comicbook fans hate... He can do no wrong. He's perfect to the extent of being a complete bore, and fans can't wait to see someone beat him up for it. What makes it worse, is that after his loss, he will just say (and I'll add in the meaning).. "Well, I'm not going to make excuses as other's would do... Last night, the better man won. I congratulate him.. NO no, no need to get upset." Translation "I will not sink down to the levels of people that are lower then I am. I am the better man for not doing this, and even though I lost last night, I am the better man tonight."

 

This is such a gift horse too... Maybe better then Face Cena, because he's the same guy, just more of it. Kids will still love him, because of the way he words his promo's. He will still sell merchandise for this same reason... but the pluss side is that they can send any heel or face into a match with him, have them win, and no matter who it is, people will pay to see him keep losing. I don't know how long they can do it for, but I would get every superstar I could think of lined up to beat him in some sort of PPV match, and watch the money role in... Heck, if I can't get anyone, I'd just use other's on the roster, everyone from Big Show (CM Punks already been there done that), Kane, Undertaker, HHH, freakin' Sheamus... They could have Brutus Clay whip up on him if Clay can ever work more then a three minute match. Mark Henry, Orton, etc... Maybe bring in Goldberg if the guy wants to come back for one more, etc... Just so many things they could do with this.

 

Thinking in this way has opened up so many options in my head for what they could do with him now. He's totally hated, except when he gets a little spunk (which as I said, is never more then one segment long) going, and just a few sparks here and there to get people motivated, and after the loss... "The better man won last night. I'd like to shake his hand on a job well done, he got the job done!"

 

Just have to be careful not to make him look totally crippled though... But I've watched him carry more then his share of Match's so I'm certain they can do this.

[Zeel1]

If he really thought he was so superior and perfect I kind of doubt he would go "He was better than me" or "She saw something in him I don't have".

 

That you can corrupt what he's saying doesn't really mean much, you can do that with basically anybody. For example I saw a post on reddit of a guy asking for advice on what to do to help this one girl that he believes to be an anorexic. He didn't know her, but kept noticing her at a gym he went to, and got worried as she looked so dangerously skinny. But because he sort of insinuated that he was fat somewhere in the post, someone harped on him in response, saying as though she knew that the girl wasn't truly anorexic, but instead totally healthy and that he was simply projecting his insecurities onto her. It doesn't matter how pure something really is, if you try hard enough you'll figure out a way to bastardize it.

 

And doesn't the way you look at it kind of make the fans look bad, atleast kayfabe-wise? I mean it's basically them saying "Corrupt yourself for us, or we won't like you." And when he refuses to let what basically amounts to peer pressure compromise who he is, they act like that's a bad thing for him to do, and enjoy seeing him get hurt because of it? I'm not saying they don't capitalize on that - I'm sure they have, and probably should, but wow do they come across badly when you look at it like that...

[Blackman]

Cena's an interesting 'experiment', that is the least we can say. It's been almost a decade in the making now, it's indeed time to reap the benefits and job him out to a lot of people and make him some sort of bitter heel. Ok, now I'm joking, they'll never do that.

[bigtplaystew]

Yea while I might disagree with the specific wording of "Cena is a heel", because to me he isn't, I can at least read the rest of what he's saying and see where it's coming from.

 

My side of it is that WWE's doing different things with Cena because they have to. The classic "I will not give up! I will stand for what is right!" type face he'd been for a few years there needed some tweaking and they knew it.

 

So they are leading him in a different direction. Now he's got a little more "Attitude". In reality, we might see a side of Cena that reminds of his former days as a heel, but I think the goal of WWE booking has been to get him cheers, not boos. To me, that is ultimately the difference between heel and face.

[djthefunkchris]

Perhaps... But I have a feeling Cena's going to stay exactly the way he is while they make money off of him losing over and over again at the PPV's.

 

What I like about it, is the fact that it doesn't matter if they put him up against a face, a heel, whomever... There's going to be people rooting for whomever is against him, and that's where the money is.... No matter what, the Heel (or face) will get cheer's against Cena.

 

Far as if he's a "Heel" character... No. He's playing a "Hated" face... I guess I'll never be able to get my point exactly through the way I was hoping to. I come to the conclusion after thinking about WWE creative and what they MUST know... Which is exactly how to make Cena a face everyone can get into... They have to know, which means they are purposely NOT doing it, and in doing so, mean's that Cena "Knows" as a character, and He's purposely NOT doing it... Because he is above us.

 

Probably still not getting what I'm saying through, but I do see some people are giving it a bit more thought then at first.

[Genadi]

Perhaps... But I have a feeling Cena's going to stay exactly the way he is while they make money off of him losing over and over again at the PPV's.

 

What I like about it, is the fact that it doesn't matter if they put him up against a face, a heel, whomever... There's going to be people rooting for whomever is against him, and that's where the money is.... No matter what, the Heel (or face) will get cheer's against Cena.

 

Far as if he's a "Heel" character... No. He's playing a "Hated" face... I guess I'll never be able to get my point exactly through the way I was hoping to. I come to the conclusion after thinking about WWE creative and what they MUST know... Which is exactly how to make Cena a face everyone can get into... They have to know, which means they are purposely NOT doing it, and in doing so, mean's that Cena "Knows" as a character, and He's purposely NOT doing it... Because he is above us.

 

Probably still not getting what I'm saying through, but I do see some people are giving it a bit more thought then at first.

 

This guy gets it ^^^

[Moe Hunter]

So, Jericho was on the Adam Carolla Show yesterday - absolutely fantastic! He's very candid, has some funny stories to tell, and thrives in the improv atmosphere of the show. Definitely worth a listen!

 

http://www.adamcarolla.com/chris-jericho/

[milamber]

Punk v Henry - Good title match to kick off Raw. Punk and Henry worked well together and the match was fairly even. Chair shot from the turnbuckle was a cool finishing move. Punk got plenty of "Yes" chants. Punk v Jericho Chicago Street Fight at ER -- hell yes!

 

Lesnar interview was awesome.

 

Kofi: "You're stupid." Bryan: "Yes! Yes! Yes!"

 

Johnny Ace trying to replace the Cena era with the Lesnar era. I like where the storyline's going. Good to see Cena get intense, something that was lacking during most of the the Rock feud. I like the People Power gimmick. Ace is like a smarmy politician who thinks everyone loves him.

 

Cena v Tensai - I really dug this match. Cena had to struggle to mount any effective offense and he put Tensai over big time. Keep Tensai's matches under 15 minutes and he could be a dominant heel.

 

Raw was great this week. I really hope the buy rate for Extreme Rules is way up from last year because the build up has me fracking excited.