The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Linsolv]

I know that everyone has their own taste, but I can't stand women's wrestling.

 

Which is weird cause I saw women's MMA the other day, and I like that infinitely better than most men's MMA.

[GDE71]

Another thing to take note of, is that taped TNA show will be going up against the pointless(yet watched heavily) WWE 3 hour draft.

[PeterHilton]

Hell there are PWI's claiming that fact. Its not that I say its true but she was very over given the whole Lauper connection etc. Trish, Chyna and to a lesser extent Lita where pretty over as well in recent times. Hell I will leave this to Remi as he is the expert hehe. Still as it has never been seriously tried there is no evidence either way if serious womens wrestling can be a draw on a major scale.

 

OK...c'mon...now you're citing Pro Wrestling Illustrated? During the kayfabe era???

 

It's never been tried seriously because promoters understand their audience. If you had a national company, would you gamble on an arena mostly filled with young males to cheer for a legitimate women's division, or would you show off some chicks with big boobs and hope that they don't hurt themselves out there? What's the safer move there?

[Linsolv]

Question! What would happen if you trained the big boobs women? I mean, I know. It's a silly idea, but hypothetically.

[Hyde Hill]

OK...c'mon...now you're citing Pro Wrestling Illustrated? During the kayfabe era???

 

It's never been tried seriously because promoters understand their audience. If you had a national company, would you gamble on an arena mostly filled with young males to cheer for a legitimate women's division, or would you show off some chicks with big boobs and hope that they don't hurt themselves out there? What's the safer move there?

 

Women with great boobs who can legit wrestle? lolz. Plus the female audience is increasing although its still mostly male. And legit is more a way of treating it and presenting it. WWE could present it much better even using the same talent they have now.

[Hyde Hill]

Hey Katie Lea and Natalya are hot imho and can go to a certain extent. Hamada and Sarita come to mind as well.

[PeterHilton]

Question! What would happen if you trained the big boobs women? I mean, I know. It's a silly idea, but hypothetically.

 

Nothing. You'd get the same bang for your buck.

 

The E gets the same rating for the current crop of "talentless" Divas as they did when they had Molly, Trish, Lita, Ivory, etc...

 

And TNA is getting the same ratings for their KO segments that heavily feature TBP, Love, and Tara as they did when they had Kong, Hamada, Sarita, etc...

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm no the E's rating is down Big time. And the Ko segmants are or where some of the highest rated each show. Still given a that TNA has a low rating that is not saying much but still. Also eventhough it was the kayfabe era if PWI felt they could sell issues even exploring that idea in the kayfabe era that doesn't make it less valid that they did so. If they legitimitly thought they could sell issues with it and they made it the front cover piece as they did that means she was over enough for that at least.

[Linsolv]

And TNA is getting the same ratings for their KO segments that heavily feature TBP, Love, and Tara as they did when they had Kong, Hamada, Sarita, etc...

 

Not fair. Hamada doesn't speak english, Kong is -- and I don't mean to be entirely catty -- not eye candy in the least, and Sarita... well, to be honest I stopped watching like 2 weeks after they brought her on so I can't say anything with regards to her.

[PeterHilton]

Listen, this is asinine.

 

The majority of the fans of pro wrestling are young males. .. if you really and truly believe that you're going to consistently draw ratings for a 'legit' women's division that are higher then one based more so on T&A, then you have a much higher opinion of that demographic then I do.

 

Hyde: I don't know what to tell you. PWI made stories up on a regular basis. Was Wendi Richter over? Sure. Do I think that she was popular enough to merit being put on a cover of a wrestling magazine? Definitely.

 

Do I think that a girl that was hot for maybe 2 years in the early 80s was, at her height, almost as over as the single most popular wrestler in the history of the industry at his very peak? No. No, I f***in; don't.

[Slagaholic]

Ditto. It's like they went out of their way to kill any momentum from this week's show.

 

No matter how bad it looks (especially the Main Event) I still like some of what they did on the under card.

 

Pope vs Mr. Anderson = Money

 

Heel Matt Morgan = Money

 

And apparently Bischoff looked at his roster and went "hey Shannon Moore has a mohawk...so does Jesse Neal! TAG TEAM!!!" (assuming the report I read is wrong since Neal and Morgan brawling and then shaking hands makes zero sense)

 

All that being said...UGH! I know you got stuck with a **** situation since you can't go live every Monday Night but Jesus Christ make something important happen at house show or something later this week and tape it so we don't have to be subjected to that drivel I read tonight.

[Hyde Hill]

Listen, this is asinine.

 

The majority of the fans of pro wrestling are young males. .. if you really and truly believe that you're going to consistently draw ratings for a 'legit' women's division that are higher then one based more so on T&A, then you have a much higher opinion of that demographic then I do.

 

Hyde: I don't know what to tell you. PWI made stories up on a regular basis. Was Wendi Richter over? Sure. Do I think that she was popular enough to merit being put on a cover of a wrestling magazine? Definitely.

 

Do I think that a girl that was hot for maybe 2 years in the early 80s was, at her height, almost as over as the single most popular wrestler in the history of the industry at his very peak? No. No, I f***in; don't.

 

I do not think so either but she was over enough to be used in that way so that can be used as an example of how over women wrestlers and with that women wrestling can be and I do not think it was soley based on hotness. Yes T and A plays an important part but it is not that one necesarrily negates the other. There are plenty of hot women that can wrestle they just need to be presented in the right way and that has never been tried by the E or WCW and as long as it has not been tried by a very big company you can not say one way or the other if it can not work.

[Stennick]

Hyde I like ya buddy but I think you're waaaaaaaay off base here.

 

The whole "well it never happened so we'll never know" theory is kinda bunk.

 

Barry Horowitz never got a shot to run in Hogan's shoes so we don't know if he would have drawn better or not....yeah right.

 

The fact is pro wrestling has proven time and time again no matter what you "want" for someone no matter what "vision" the bookers have the cream will eventually rise to the top. Austin wasn't supposed to be a good guy, The Rock wasn't supposed to be a bad guy, HHH wasn't supposed to be a main eventer. When great things happen the fans pick up on it and raise their voice until Vince or whoever else has no choice but to recognize that.

 

I never once remember Richter being anything more than an afterthought. Trish, Lita, Chyna, Stephanie McMahon, even Melina, Mickie James and Beth Phoniex are promoted better and viewed better than Wendi was.

 

Trish is the most popular womans wrestler since Moolah in her prime and even she didn't draw near what the top guys in the business drew.

 

The Knockouts are a top ratings draw for TNA that being said what Hilton was saying is the numbers are the same if its Hamada and Kong or if its Lacey and Angelina Love.

 

Women's wrestling is featured more prominatley today than it ever has been in the history of this business. TNA and the WWE both have active womens divisions. In face teh WWE has TWO womens divisions. ROH might as well have a womens division with Shimmer there are more female wrestlers in the spotlight today than ever in history.

 

All of that being said not one of these women has drawn like The Rock, or Austin, or anyone else. Their great, I don't mind watching them and I've enjoyed me some Victoria vs. Trish feuds but to say "they have never been given teh chance so we'll never know" argument is just a cop out. Trish was on television every week, Chyna actually competed against the males and won the second most important championship they had at the time. They have had several women featured very heavily on television.

 

Not one of them broke out. Its not that they couldn't or that they weren't skilled enough its that the fans didn't come there for that they weren't interested enough to let them break out. They came to see two thin, tan girls with large breasts wrestle each other and thats what they got. Pro Wrestling at its core is violent and I just don't think guys find it appealing to have two girls scraping each others faces against a cage.

[The Final Countdown]

...Didn't we already go through this same exact argument, like, a week ago?

[Hyde Hill]

Thing is Stennick you are talking individual wrestlers gimmicks etc and main eventers not an entire division and the way its treated and represented. It also works both ways especially when mentioning trips, some guys are made into main eventers by the company and others by the fans and then the company sometimes latches onto it. Its works both ways not fans influence the company but the company, especially in a monopoly situation like this, influences the fans. Still al I was saying was that the E gets a relative pass for booking the women like crap because they always book them like crap. Plus as long as no one seriously gives womens wrestling a platform in a more serious way while being a big enough company we will never know if it can or can not draw. If TNA was doing ratings in the two's and had better attendance and they would have treated the women during the early days then we would have known if it could draw or not.

 

Hehe yeah Final but its a fun one lol. I see where Peter and Stennick are coming from I and they are right for a majority of the argument but not 100 percent imho.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I want to see nice T&A womens division, as any typical male would.

 

Do I want to see one that has under-developed characters and female wrestlers that though pretty can't wrestle a lick?

 

Or do I want to watch the ones that are not only hot (and has more variety then balloons + broomstick bodies), but can wrestle entertaining matches, AND have well developed personalities?

 

Hands down I'm going to go with the 2nd division, if for no other reason then the fact that their just as hot AND their characters are better thought out. Hell if the WWE did that much, it wouldn't matter that none of them can wrestle.

 

As for me, I say the sole reason the KO division gets ratings is The Beautiful People, their probably the greatest heels in wrestling period right now.

[Slagaholic]

As for me, I say the sole reason the KO division gets ratings is The Beautiful People, their probably the greatest heels in wrestling period right now.

 

They're not even the best heels in TNA.

[TommyDreamerFan]

They're not even the best heels in TNA.

 

mmmm on second though, I'm being a biased mark. I realize. To me, theyre the hottest thing since LAX though.

[fatallylost]

Hmm... I'm not sure I can jump on that bus. I get the gimmick, and see why it works.. but, best heels in the business? Which business? Accounting? Cause, I may agree there.

[Self]

If only TNA had a strong babyface to combat them. ODB's stale. Angelina's flip-flopped around, and her feud with the BP is more because she's butthurt for being kicked out than anything noble (plus she looks dirty). Daffney's a niche character. Taylor & Sarita are... are they still around?

 

I can't really blame them, but wrestling writers have always struggled with female characters. I know I did in my diary project. They're interesting though. Men have a genetic need to be the alpha male, so becoming a professional fighter makes sense, but do women have that same need to dominate? If not, why would they fight? That's something I'd like explored.

 

All in all, I agree with TommyDreamerFan. I'd like a Knockouts (or Divas) division filled with hot girls, developed personalities, decent wrestlers and variety. There was a time when TNA seemed to have this, but it's slipped through their fingers as of late. They were a big reason I watched the show. Although the arrival of RVD & Jeff just about makes up the lack of Kong & Gail

[Moe Hunter]

Hmm... I'm not sure I can jump on that bus. I get the gimmick, and see why it works.. but, best heels in the business? Which business? Accounting? Cause, I may agree there.

 

Come on... Inland Revenue are easily the best heels in the Accounting business!

[fatallylost]

Come on... Inland Revenue are easily the best heels in the Accounting business!

 

That's my argument. Never before have I seen such underhanded tactics in my life!

[Trashbear]

Look, I'll just say this...it's obvious that men in this country like women who compete or perform to the best of their abilities. Nothing is more highly respected and valued than a woman's organization that does everything the men's organization does. And when it comes to athletics, there is no gender gap, women are just as talented as men.

 

And that's why the WNBA is the most popular sports league in the Universe right now.

[Remianen]

Not fair. Hamada doesn't speak english

 

False. Ayako does speak English. She's just not very good on the mic.

 

Men have a genetic need to be the alpha male, so becoming a professional fighter makes sense, but do women have that same need to dominate? If not, why would they fight? That's something I'd like explored.

 

Self, I mean no disrespect here, but do you know any women? I only ask that question because the answer (to me, having been raised by and around 'em) is so painfully simple, and I'm sure any of the married guys here can attest to it.

 

They don't need a reason!

 

At least not one that we understand. That's what makes them interesting and oftentimes vexing, but rarely boring. They don't need a reason to do anything that they choose to do. Men, being largely simple, don't get that as readily because we at least have an excuse to fall back on. If we don't, we make one up!

 

Give ya a couple examples.

 

You and a friend show up at an event wearing the same suit. "Nice suit, bro".

 

Two women show up at an event with the same dress on. Is the response the same? WHY?

 

You come home and your wife/gf is giving you the cold shoulder. She's upset over something you don't even remember! "Do you know what today is?" Blank look. Turns out, it's the sixth anniversary of the day you met. WHAT?!?

 

Mind you, I'm not saying EVERY woman is like that. But it happens enough to be considered the baseline or norm. Part of what makes writing for them difficult (at least where wrestling is concerned) is that the very thing that booking is largely based on (making sense to the wider audience) works against being true to the 'accepted' behavior of the characters due to gender. If you book them the same as the men, they don't shine because (news flash!) they aren't men and don't fit into the typical male motivations. So you book them to appeal to the male audience but while doing so, you basically shun the female audience because they can't identify with the characters for several reasons. First, "divas" don't tend to have body types that mirror the majority of the female audience so you wind up just supporting the traditional body image problem. Secondly, most of your female audience wouldn't identify with the actions of a diva product because they (and most of their friends) don't act like that. So you basically shut yourself off from the majority of the potential female audience, to appeal to men in a manner that might even be borderline offensive to the larger female audience (through the perpetuation of the body image thing).

 

The problem (as I see it) is the fact that the population is changing. Heck, I can pull several quotes from male members of this community who have admitted that their wives control the finances in their household. That seems like a trend. So it would seem to me to be a good idea to attract the interest of the people who are increasingly finding themselves in control of the family's finances, in a way that appeals to them and their (general) sensibilities. Strip clubs tend to appeal to one gender far moreso than the other, so a hyper-sexualized product that promotes unrealistic images of women would appear to me to run counter to that goal.

 

But then, I'm biased. I'd take a Mia Hamm or Candace Parker over a Madison Rayne or Lacey Von Erich any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.

[Remianen]

Look, I'll just say this...it's obvious that men in this country like women who compete or perform to the best of their abilities. Nothing is more highly respected and valued than a woman's organization that does everything the men's organization does. And when it comes to athletics, there is no gender gap, women are just as talented as men.

 

And that's why the WNBA is the most popular sports league in the Universe right now.

 

 

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