The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Slagaholic]

<p>Didn't they devote an entire episode of ReAction explaining the Immortal-Fourtune alliance and how it came to be?</p><p> </p><p>

If you aren't in the US/Canada and didn't get ReAction I can partially understand your confusion.</p><p> </p><p>

When I think about it...that may help explain why Fourtune oversold those weak Hogan punches!</p>

[Wrestling Century]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Didn't they devote an entire episode of ReAction explaining the Immortal-Fourtune alliance and how it came to be?<p> </p><p> If you aren't in the US/Canada and didn't get ReAction I can partially understand your confusion.</p><p> </p><p> When I think about it...that may help explain why Fourtune oversold those weak Hogan punches!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I get Reaction, but I just missed that one. Whoops. And that would explain why Fourtune oversold those punches, but I doubt that that was what TNA was going for. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Slagaholic]

My favorite was AJ getting his chin grazed and flying over the top rope like he was shot by a .50 cal sniper. Overselling is fun to watch but guys who are extremely athletic overselling is pure gold.

[PeterHilton]

When did Slagaholic turn into Hyde Hill?

[Stennick]

Well once Hyde finally gave in to their non sense somebody had to take up their side

 

I think I'm a much happier wrestling fan now that I've just completely given up on TNA. I haven't watched the show in months but I would check out spoilers and spend too much time in this thread screaming about how bad they were screwing up.

 

I haven't read a single spoiler since BFG and honestly have no idea what their current stories are other than Morgan's turn.

 

As long as the people writing the show now are writing the show its not going to be possible for them to sustain any sort of long term quality. They might have a show or even a month but the current idea people are not capable of putting on a long term enjoyable show.

 

Look no further than the X Division and the Knockouts Division to see that people who were fans of this company even two years ago this is an entirely different company now. Enjoy the shows if you want but atleast before you believed they would fall into a few months of good shows based purely on the X Division and the Knockouts alone.....now with those two divisions at all time lows I think its become evidient what the emphasis of the company is and its not in my taste.

 

That being said I feel the same way about the WWE, their shows are bland, boring and predictable, the characters don't interest me and I haven't watched since the night Cena was forced to join Nexus. Once they mostly botched that I tuned out.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep it seems wrestling itself is at an all time low. TNA still has good stuff and talent though but the bad has just overwhelmed it imho. I used to be able to tolerate it but ever since the crap that was "they" I have had it for now.

[PeterHilton]

I'm fine with people enjoying TNA if that's their taste, but I don't. I've tried an episode or two before BFG, and I watched a few segments since then, but my main issue is that - of the guys on that roster I like - NONE of them are being pushed with any consistency.

 

It felt like every single time I flipped over last night, either Eric Bischoff of JJ were on the screen.And I've had my fill of both their acts years ago. There's literally no two people in the business that could make me change my channel faster.

[Stennick]

What really sucks is I was a huge fan of Bischoff before his recent run in TNA.

 

I thought he did some really good stuff in WCW and you don't just accidently become the only man to ever beat Vince McMahon in pro wrestling.

 

I felt like he got a bad rap and WCW didn't truly go downhill until after he was gone.

 

He came to the WWE and was a good performer, his book made sense and was no more revisionist than anyone else in the business.

 

He came to TNA and I thought this is his chance to do it all over again, to really show how innovative he is. Sadly he showed he's not all that innovative and all that talk on FB, his blog and his book about how to modernize pro wrestling was just hot air.

 

That being said although my level of credit for Bischoff has gone down I truly think Russo gets a bad rap. He's not great but he's actually matured with his writing over the years. Go back and look at 99 WCW, or even worse 02 TNA it was so immature it was embarrassing to be a wrestling fan. Thats no longer the case.

[PeterHilton]

<p>The writing isn't bad. The pace of the storylines is a little quick, but at least it's not "a-march-through-the-Himalayas slow" like the E's storylines.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

For me...it's JJ. I can't stand Jeff Jarrett. I was never into TNA more than when he was gone or when he was stuck in peripheral stories when he returned. </p><p> </p><p>

But flipping back to TNA and seeing that hack in segment after segment, being pushed in the central stable of TNA, when the <em>one consistent thing</em> TNA has proved over the years is that no one outside the core fanbase gives a crap about Jeff Jarrett...it's just mind-numbing.</p><p> </p><p>

It would be like if the Carolina Panthers still had Jake Delhomme at QB. Yeah he did some good things early on, and maybe at some point you still needed him, and the fans still recognize him, but the guy is a dumpster fire with a history of failures and at some point you just need to move on.</p>

[Blackman]

<p>it just pains me to see the company that i loved from 2002 onward falling into the same trap the WWE fell into.</p><p> </p><p>

Like someone said already, they correctly diagnosed the pain points of wrestling. Underrated cruisers, underrated women and other minorities (heck, even midgets), experimented with new stuff (6-s ring, new match types, etc.), but all of that is gone now. I used to like their entire shows. Mostly, only the main event, featuring JJ, sucked (talk about anti-climatic). But now they just turned into a copy of WWE, only 10 times worse. </p><p> </p><p>

All my favorite wrestlers there are shoved aside for old WWE has-beens, which i love, but have seen so much and grown accustomed to their WWE personas it's hard to place them in TNA.</p><p> </p><p>

So: I really love to see TNA succeed, but they should see that the current direction will fail so epicly that it feels like you're watching titanic all over again.</p>

[Stennick]

<p>Correct me if I'm wrong though but as much hate as we all (myself very much included) have given them haven't they had ratings increases since moving back to Thursdays and haven't they had some of their highest numbers yet since the Immortal storyline played out?</p><p> </p><p>

Or did those ratings tank already and are they back to their magical 1.0 area?</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Correct me if I'm wrong though but as much hate as we all (myself very much included) have given them haven't they had ratings increases since moving back to Thursdays and haven't they had some of their highest numbers yet since the Immortal storyline played out?<p> </p><p> Or did those ratings tank already and are they back to their magical 1.0 area?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They're @ around a 1.1. Which is slightly above what they were at before the move to Monday. So it's good they got back to that number.</p><p> </p><p> But no significant Immortal boost.</p>

[Slagaholic]

<p>I don't have a problem with people not liking the characters or the stories themselves. All I was saying is that the old 'TNA doesn't explain anything' hate isn't fair anymore. The storylines themselves may not make complete sense but let's not act like there has ever been a promotion that had storylines that all made total sense.</p><p> </p><p>

Say what you will about Bischoff but ReAction is one thing he's done in TNA that is absolutely brilliant.</p><p> </p><p>

The storytelling that's going on in wrestling these days is far superior and makes much more sense than most of the attitude era and miles ahead of the pre-attitude era 90s.</p>

[jhd1]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The storytelling that's going on in wrestling these days is far superior and makes much more sense than most of the attitude era and miles ahead of the pre-attitude era 90s.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Fully agree, although I can't be the only one hoping that John Cena gets fired and Charlie Brown from Outta Town Jr. debuts the next night. And yes, I am serious, and yes I do realise this is not the WWE thread but where else am I going to crowbar that admission in!? <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hyde Hill]

If TNA would slow the pace down a little on their storylines but keep them active all the same (Sting's Them/deception was just sometimes absent for instance) and would seriously lower the relevance and screen time of nostalgia I would come back definitely. And yes TNA is doing better now then they where last year but they should/could be doing much better. And yes the hogan/bisch regime hasn't been all bad but as I pointed out before the "they" reveal pushed it towards a negative for me and unless I get clear signals TNA is doing better again I am not watching.

[Hashasheen]

<p>I think a lot of you guys are just complaining at the mo'. I'm an new TNA fan. Yes, I didn't like the Immortal thing at BFG, but considering its not fully played out, I'm willing to give it a shot. Matt Morgan's face turn, is something I liked, especially because I'm a mark for the big guy. There aren't that many old WWE has-beens in there anymore wrestling, unless you're counting Kurt Angle as one. Jeff's heel turn is actually turning out to be pretty interesting, Abyss is doing his job by derailing the Pope's mission against Immortal, and Mickie James and Victoria are settling their **** in the ring. </p><p> </p><p>

Sure, the X-Division needs some building, but when the Lucha guys come in from AAA they'll boost the division, not to mention the women's division just needs a little more padding and its perfectly fine as is. The old guys in ECW are getting phased out for the most part, since Sabu and Rhino both have contracts expiring soon, while Raven and Tommy are definitly going backstage more while RVD will be the only guy left wrestling.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think a lot of you guys are just complaining at the mo'. I'm an new TNA fan. Yes, I didn't like the Immortal thing at BFG, but considering its not fully played out, I'm willing to give it a shot. Matt Morgan's face turn, is something I liked, especially because I'm a mark for the big guy. There aren't that many old WWE has-beens in there anymore wrestling, unless you're counting Kurt Angle as one. Jeff's heel turn is actually turning out to be pretty interesting, Abyss is doing his job by derailing the Pope's mission against Immortal, and Mickie James and Victoria are settling their **** in the ring. <p> </p><p> Sure, the X-Division needs some building, but when the Lucha guys come in from AAA they'll boost the division, not to mention the women's division just needs a little more padding and its perfectly fine as is. The old guys in ECW are getting phased out for the most part, since Sabu and Rhino both have contracts expiring soon, while Raven and Tommy are definitly going backstage more while RVD will be the only guy left wrestling.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well of course you are. You said it yourself. You're new to TNA. But you know who you sound like? Me about a year a and half, two years ago. But once this Immortal stuff has finished, we've had the payoff, and it's time to move on, let's see how long they are willing to do that before doing something wild to "change TNA forever". If they actually follow through on the aftermath period and let it go somewhere, then maybe you'll prove to be right. But a lot of us will have to see it to believe it.</p><p> </p><p> Now don't think I'm saying you shouldn't let it play out and see where it goes. I'm glad you have the energy to do that. Just letting you know how much you don't know at the moment. Things sound like they are starting to ease in the right direction but I'm skeptical until further notice.</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think a lot of you guys are just complaining at the mo'. I'm an new TNA fan. Yes, I didn't like the Immortal thing at BFG, but considering its not fully played out, I'm willing to give it a shot. Matt Morgan's face turn, is something I liked, especially because I'm a mark for the big guy. There aren't that many old WWE has-beens in there anymore wrestling, unless you're counting Kurt Angle as one. Jeff's heel turn is actually turning out to be pretty interesting, Abyss is doing his job by derailing the Pope's mission against Immortal, and Mickie James and Victoria are settling their **** in the ring. <p> </p><p> Sure, the X-Division needs some building, but when the Lucha guys come in from AAA they'll boost the division, not to mention the women's division just needs a little more padding and its perfectly fine as is. The old guys in ECW are getting phased out for the most part, since Sabu and Rhino both have contracts expiring soon, while Raven and Tommy are definitly going backstage more while RVD will be the only guy left wrestling.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Obviously our tastes are different. </p><p> </p><p> I don't need or want to see 60 year old Hulk Hogan as the anti establishment heel, I don't want or need to see Jeff Jarrett in yet ANOTHER main event stable where apparently he's on the screen the whole time.</p><p> </p><p> Abyss derailing the Pope? Didn't Fortune derail this guy last year? Last year the Pope was the hottest act in the country and going into his title shot he might have been the biggest or second biggest baby they had. What is he doing now? The SAME stuff he was doing in March, playing the upper mid card, every once in a while main eventer. This Immortal stuff should have elevated him to the top of the company, instead we got a flash Matt Morgan turn (which I was ok with) and Pope is still left feuding with lackey's and what not before his eventual world title shot will be at some throw away pay per view. I know you're knew but you have to understand Pope has been upper mid card, teasing main event for nine months now. At some point you have to pulll the damn trigger and give the guy the biggest story in the company. </p><p> </p><p> You're making a common TNA mistake. You're reading dirt sheets and trying to predict TNA's future. Just because their contracts are coming up doesn't mean anything. Sabu is likely done but I'm sure Rhino will get resigned. Also there is ZERO indication that Raven and Dreamer are "headed for backstage roles" their still as prevalent on the screen as the day they came in. </p><p> </p><p> As far as has been's still wrestilng? Where do I count the ways. Jeff Jarrett, Team 3D, Raven, Tommy Dreamer, Sabu, Rhino, Mick Foley, I'm sure I could go on but I haven't watched in over a month now. Are some of these guys still valuable? Sure Foley and thats about it. To me though you come across as a guy that says "I don't mind 2000 WCW that much, sure they weren't great but they were on the right track before this or that happened". TNA fans sometimes fall into a trap of defending the company because their fans of it and so they make excuses for the silly, non sensical things that they do both on and off screen. To say there are hardly any has been in the company when there is an entire STABLE of has beens who currently have been kicking the young guy "elite" stable's but for months now. Well thats just silly.</p><p> </p><p> As far as the X Division, again that Jersey Shore guy is feuding with Jay Lethal over the title right? One Jay Lethal was the hottest act not named Pope in the company. Wasn't he feuding with Ric Flair, AJ Styles, and at the time the only main event faction there was? Now he's wrestling the Jersey shore guy? This guy should be in Pope's spot now. He should be the guy that every heel has to go through to get to the main event scene. Instead he's stuck in some silly feuding, with a meaningless championship, fighting against a bad Zack Ryder rip off. The other guy might be talented but answer me this is he Homicide talented? Is he Amazing Red talented? Is he Jerry Lynn talented (before), Low Ki, Chris Sabin, even Brian Kendrick, Shannon Moore, Christopher Daniels, so many guys have been in and around this X Division championship in the past, Joe, Styles, etc and you look at all those names are you really prepared to put THAT guys name on that list of elite, game changing, in ring superstars? To coin a phrase I don't think so. I'm sorry but if your answer is "well their going to get some lucha's from AAA and the division will be ok" one thats so absurdly wrong since you know those guys would be on LOAN, and two nobody knows them and they likely can't speak very good english, and three thats just incredibly lazy Eric Bischoff booking. "hey I need some lightweights get me some luchas". </p><p> </p><p> Lastly you mention the Knockouts Division being ok as is and just needs some padding? So you really think that Mickie James vs. Victoria a feud that could have happened in 2006 in the WWE is the best way to go? I'm sorry but you really think the BP's really hold a candle to Kong, Allisa Flash, Gail Kim even ODB? You really think so? Again you're new to TNA but the entire POINT of the Knockouts Division, much like the X Division is to be DIFFERENT give the fans the womens wrestling they can't see on the other channel. You really think a bunch of plastic blondes with little in the way of actual in ring talent and a bunch of WWE cast offs is really something different than what we're seeing on the other channel? Same with the X Division, the championship used to be about putting two guys in the ring with jaw dropping, in ring charisma and skill that could pull off moves the likes of which we've never seen. Now they got Zack Ryder 2.0 feuding for it? It becomes just another title at that point with zero meaning behind it. </p><p> </p><p> I get that you're new to TNA but people are complaining just to complain there are real problems that iritate people because they LIKE TNA. I've been to Lockdown, I've watched Bound For Glory, I've bought a t shirt from them. I like the company, in March and April I thought they were on the right track. Then these has beens started coming back.....you know the ones that aren't around in your eyes or it doesn't matter because a dirt sheet says their leaving soon.</p><p> </p><p> Anyway like it if you want but like you said you're new to TNA, the things we're complaining about have nothing to do with Immortal aside from JJ, their storyline pacing, or even for the most part who's being pushed aside from a few glaringly obvious snafus.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> I'm an new TNA fan. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Everything you said after this was pointless. </p><p> </p><p> The people in this thread who are complaining are complaining because it's been the same set of issues for years.</p>

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Everything you said after this was pointless. <p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No it wasn't. TNA are trying to grow, therefore it's really important to see that the new fans are thinking, not just fans who pine after WCW. And if you read between the lines it was interesting- X-Division needs expanding, old guys need filtering out, but happy with the main storyline. I think that's fair enough.</p>

[Self]

<p>... but then again, the X-Division needs expanding because TNA have gutted it and turned it into a shell of what it once was. The old guys need filtering out, because TNA keep knowingly and willingly hiring dudes from the 90's. TNA cause these problems themselves. The issues I have with TNA's product, are the very same things they do to try to improve their show. Hence, I don't watch.</p><p> </p><p>

However, if you're a new fan, rock on. Don't let anyone tell you what you like isn't important. All we have in life is our own personal preferences, so go with it. I was really into TNA when I first started discovering it. Learning about all these new characters was awesome. Similar to how I am now discovering the wonders of PWG. New is great.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<p>It's pointless because he started out saying that people are complaining in the moment.</p><p> </p><p>

So regardless of what he said, his perspective is that our opinions were based on current issues when most of -if not all - the people complaining in this thread has been watching for year.</p><p> </p><p>

And the issues he pointed out: relying on washed up stars? the Knock-outs? The X Division?</p><p> </p><p>

All of them have been problems for a long while.</p><p> </p><p>

So yeah it's fine if he likes the show. But its pretty presumptuous to talk to a group of people that have for the most part been tagging along with TNA since nearly it's inception and say "oh well all your complaints are about problems they are having now but if you'd paid attention they're fixing things and everything's gonna be great down the road"</p><p> </p><p>

Yeah, right. Like we haven't heard that before. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

TNA has been "full of promise" for years and just keep making the same mistakes. How long am I supposed to watch before I decide they don't get the benefit of the doubt?</p>

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How long am I supposed to watch before I decide they don't get the benefit of the doubt?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You don't have to - the wrestling industry isn't about loyal fans, it's about keeping the influx of new (predominantly young male) fans at least as high or if not higher than those fans leaving (predominantly older males, who are busy settling down with a family).</p><p> </p><p> And the new fan coming in says he wants an improvement in the X-Division, just like we do! Fantastic! He has unrealistic expectations about how the change will occur, but his needs are the same as ours, which is better than new WWE fans PG needs, which don't match with ours.</p>

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No it wasn't. TNA are trying to grow, therefore it's really important to see that the new fans are thinking, not just fans who pine after WCW. And if you read between the lines it was interesting- X-Division needs expanding, old guys need filtering out, but happy with the main storyline. I think that's fair enough.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Riight, except that those things that he sees as expanding are the same things that have needed expanding for almost 4 years.</p><p> </p><p> I;m all set with being scammed by TNA any longer, I was a viewer for 4 years and always waited for them to take that next step. They never have, and as long as Russo and Co are in charge, IMO they never will.</p><p> </p><p> They haven't in 4 years, why should i keep giving them my viewship to see the same things that don't work over and over again?</p><p> </p><p> I've seen the NWo. It was great in 98. It was decent in WWE. It's awful and sad in 2010.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You don't have to - the wrestling industry isn't about loyal fans, it's about keeping the influx of new (predominantly young male) fans at least as high or if not higher than those fans leaving (predominantly older males, who are busy settling down with a family).<p> </p><p> And the new fan coming in says he wants an improvement in the X-Division, just like we do! Fantastic! He has unrealistic expectations about how the change will occur, but his needs are the same as ours, which is better than new WWE fans PG needs, which don't match with ours.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Meh. I don't disagree. I still don't think it's accurate/fair to tell people they're "complaining at the mo' " when clearly they aren't. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Riight, except that those things that he sees as expanding are the same things that have needed expanding for almost 4 years.<p> </p><p> I;m all set with being scammed by TNA any longer, I was a viewer for 4 years and always waited for them to take that next step. They never have, and as long as Russo and Co are in charge, IMO they never will.</p><p> </p><p> They haven't in 4 years, why should i keep giving them my viewship to see the same things that don't work over and over again?</p><p> </p><p> I've seen the NWo. It was great in 98. It was decent in WWE. It's awful and sad in 2010.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nicely written. Totally agree.</p>