The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

The thought that they do have talent I like and its not all terrible kept me watching for awhile. But "They" turning out to be a takeoff of the NWO proved to me, as I feared from the day they arrived, that Hogan and Bischoff are incapable of being original or fresh whatsoever. I realize that seeing WCW 1996 play out in TNA in 2010 might appeal to some fans, and I can accept that. It does not appeal to me. I could send logical emails to Dixie, Bischoff, etc, and explain myself, but I have no faith I would be regarded as anything more than a "hater". So I'm going to express my displeasure by simply not giving them my time anymore.

 

I realize they will still produce some quality matches. And I'm certain that the IWC will make me aware of those matches, and I will find a way to view them if I am so inclined.

 

Yep and it's not just about freshness to me either. It used to be for every 10 things TNA did it was 2 good 5 mediocre and 3 crap. I could live with that as I could ignore the crap and focus on the good now it has become 2 good 2 mediocre 6 crap to me and the crap cannot be ignored any-more as it has such an extremely prominent place. Ad into that the hope that eventually that crap would become less or go away (false I know) and that hope having completely ended for now I just don't care any-more.

 

BTW Self how can you drive to a Dragon Gate show while living in the UK? Did they do a UK tour or where you in the US/Japan at the time?

[Self]

Aye. Who really cares about who is in charge? The whole 'General Manager' type deal, making the 'booker' a character and his job a prize is so beyond played out. Hate it. It smacks of unoriginality. Wrestling folks so inside the wrestling bubble all they can write is kayfabe versions of backstage politics. Go see some movies for cripes sake. Read a book. Go to the theatre. Get ideas from outside the bubble

[Hyde Hill]

All this ownership talk is making my head heart.

 

First Jarrett was the owner, then Jarrett and Dixie, then we had a MILLION director's of authority. Erik freaking Watts was a Director of Authority, seriously.

 

After that they brought Foley in and HE was an owner, then Hogan came in and HE was an owner. Now Bischoff has "Control".

 

Seriously this is awful.

 

Hogan comes in and buys part of the company so it makes Foley and JJ's ownership null and void somehow? I thought Bischoff already had control since he was doing all the match making. Why was he allowed to be a heel with The Band and treating JJ that way if Dixie or Hogan could have stopped it at any time?

 

Why did they have to wait seven months to take "full control" from Dixie. Isn't Hogan part owner and wasn't Bischoff already "president" or whatever. I mean Bischoff was allowed to mis treat everyone from Jay Lethal to Foley to Jarett and Dixie didn't step in so why would she step in if Jeff Hardy joined him?

 

And now Flair JOINS Hogan so we have a stable of Hogan, Bischoff, Jarrett, Abyss, Hardy, Flair, AJ, Beer Money, Kaz and Morgan? ELEVEN guys in one stable seriously? How in the hell are you going to get eleven guys booked relevently on a card? Are we going to get 2001 WWF where we would have random ten man tags between the Alliance and the WWF mid card jobbers because they had all these guys and nothing for them to do?

 

Wasn't the knock on the nWo was that they got too big and too many guys were left without anything to do other than come out and hang around while the main eventers cut promos? Isn't that what this is going to be? How are Matt Morgan, Kaz, Beer Money going to get ANY promo time when their lost in an eleven man shuffle?

 

Final Countdown mentioned that he liked MCMG so he might still watch. My question is who are they going to face now? Are you really interested in Team 3D vs. MCMG? We just had Gen Me vs. MCMG and we just got done with Beer Money vs. MCMG, their tag division is dead in the water.

 

Hyde your break down of what is important in TNA and the gaps and what not is SPOT on exactly how I see it (that feels weird to agree with you completely on something TNA related )

 

Finally Eric Bischoff ripping the WWF for re creating the nWo and a retrend was just him having a snarky, holier than thou attitude. He's most likely upset they didn't call him to be a part of it. If they would have brought in the nWo during the InVasion we could have had some classic match ups. Can you imagine Hogan vs. Austin, Hogan vs. The Rock, Outsiders vs. New Age Outlaws, nWo vs. DX. So if anything they should have done it a year earlier. I find it funny that Eric is talking about anything being a retrend when we just got done having Eric, Hogan, Sting, Nash and Jarrett feuding over stuff that went back to 1996 and WCW. Eric runs off at the mouth about a lot of things and I've given the guy credit. Hell I even bought his book when it came out. I thought the way he went about taking Vince down was brilliant. The guy knew what he was doing in 95 and 96.

 

Nitro was unpredictable, it was new, it was fresh, he was giving away results, he was on when the WWF went to commercial, he booked pay per view main events on Nitro. It was a lot more than just him buying up a lot of WWF talent he knew how to use them and did so brilliantly for two years before things just got too big and he had made too many promises to too many guys and nobody wanted to play together by 1997. Like others have said I think it was Peter maybe DJ or BP but someone said that Eric took one idea (nWo) and just beat it into the ground. His solution for a gimmick change was to make somebody the nWo or get them kicked out of the nWo. Then he created two nWo's. Then he created another nWo. Nearly up until the time the guy was let go there was some incarnation of the nWo out there and when he came back in 2000 guess what? The New Blood might as well have been nWo light. Eric's fresh ideas have been gone since 1996 which saddens me because he was the one guy I really thought knew what he was doing but clearly I see that either he never did or he's just there to collect a paycheck until he's fired and TNA latches onto their next booking messiah.

 

Hehe thanks wonder if others agree. We where close on some-things just different in our approach so to speak. If you read back we actually agreed on a lot of things only I was also just pointing out the other side of the coin or mitigating factors etc.

 

Anyway pretty much done with discussing TNA per se but I do enjoy discussing wrestling with you guys. So might pop in from time to time. But for now the Hyde, Stennick, Peter, DJfunk and others debates are done. Hope you enoyed it as much as I did.

 

Edit: To be fair he has done some good stuff as the cutting down of the amount of segments which improved the flow, ReAction type angles and ReAction in itself but all the good is outweighed by all the bad. Of the big 3 this year (EB, Hulk, Russo) it's actually EB that has done the most good imho. What TNA needed in that time period though and still needs was someone ala VKM who could take the good and use it, tweak the potential good and just say NO to the bad. Same as for instance Angle he has good ideas from what I have heard him say, read and hearsay but at the same time he thinks Red could be the next Rey Mysterio. I really hope Bruce Prichard can become that filter seeing how close he has been with Vince for so long.

 

Ok now I need to let go seriously old habits die hard. F you TNA.

[PeterHilton]

Aye. Who really cares about who is in charge? The whole 'General Manager' type deal, making the 'booker' a character and his job a prize is so beyond played out. Hate it. It smacks of unoriginality. Wrestling folks so inside the wrestling bubble all they can write is kayfabe versions of backstage politics. Go see some movies for cripes sake. Read a book. Go to the theatre. Get ideas from outside the bubble

 

True, but I think the authority figure/booker/GM character is simply a given part of the sports entertainment genre. It goes back to Jack Tunney as the President of the WWF...'someone' is obviously in charge.

 

If anything, I'd just like there to be a twist on the 'evil authority' figure and have someone who treats the roster more like a sabermetrics GM using finance and statistics to make decisions that are based in cold, calculated logic instead of always siding with the heels for personal gain.

[Self]

True, but I think the authority figure/booker/GM character is simply a given part of the sports entertainment genre. It goes back to Jack Tunney as the President of the WWF...'someone' is obviously in charge.

 

Sure. I always point to Joel Silva in UFC as my ideal GM type figure. You know his name, you know his role, but he stays out of the way and lets the drama unfold away from him.

 

If anything, I'd just like there to be a twist on the 'evil authority' figure and have someone who treats the roster more like a sabermetrics GM using finance and statistics to make decisions that are based in cold, calculated logic instead of always siding with the heels for personal gain.

 

I could buy into that. New. Different. Has a grounding in sports. Cool beans.

[Hyde Hill]

Don't fully agree but still an entertaining review.

 

[liontamer]

You said something similar when you posted that incredibly baffling fantasy booking a few pages back. Let me ask you something:

 

1) Based on TNA's previous booking or these types of stories (i.e Joe feuding with MEM for months and then joining them for no apparent reason) what makes you think the 'twits and turns' would make any more sense or be any more compelling than what's happened up to this point?

 

2) How exactly would these 'clues' that were allegedly left behind be picked up by the average viewer?

 

3) Wouldn't that type of storyline STILL be an nWo rip off?

 

4) Does a storyline that includes that many convoluted twists and turns actually make for a more enjoyable wrestling program? I mean...unless you're a giant fan of something like Lost ..how does a convoluted storyline with a million clues that the average fan can't pick up on that goes nowhere and has no pay off make TNA better?

 

Was TNA better when the MEM was the central focus of the show?

 

 

 

Good for you. As a longtime follower and viewer of TNA in all it's glorious ineptitude and as a longtime critic of Bischoff and Hogan and their inability to sacrifice their egos for the good of the company hey work for, I'm positivie that there's almost no way for this to go well.

 

I read the spoilers and it already sounds awful. But it's good you're openminded.

 

I just think that a lot of people reached the end of their ropes.

 

 

 

Well, duh. It IS TNA.

 

 

I had a more detailed response in the works and nearly completed, but it got deleted when someone jumped on the computer and changed the page while I answered the phone, so I'm going to keep it shorter and can provide more detail later if you want it.

 

1) EB wasn't writing it before. Not a guarantee, but does give some hope.(btw, I don't recall, what even happened to MEM?) It's also not as random as they've laid the foundation from the moment they came in.

 

2) Aside from bob and janice (which I only knew from reading about online), I thought most of them were fairly obvious, and as is it turned out bob and janice didn't even matter and may have just been a way to swerve the internet community and take your attention away from more obvious things. BTW (spoiler alert) Fortune joins HH and JJ on impact as I believe I'd predicted in all 4 versions of my 'baffling fantasy booking'. If you want me to go into detail on the clues left for that I'd be happy too. There is plenty to show that JJ was with hogan, that fortune was with hogan and that hardy was turning heel, that something is going on with tessmacher etc. These aren't things I had to watch over and over to pick up either.

 

3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan

 

As long as they change it enough, it could still feel different which is what matters.

 

4)first of all TNA, WCW, WWE all try, or have tried, to end in suspense to get you you to tune in the next show to see what happened, this is no different. Sometimes it's going off the air during a brawl without knowing the outcome, sometimes it's discovering someone's been assaulted backstage, but leaving without saying who the attacker was etc. You've gotta admit, it's better than trying to solve for the third or 4th time at that it was HHH that ran over HBK.

 

Second it's like the annoying thing they are doing with the Jersey shore stuff, it's one more element that could possibly attract viewers and as long as it doesn't go overboard it should cost many viewers.

 

With the popularity of shows like 24, prisonbreak, lost, etc I think it's not a bad thing to try.

 

 

And every time I read the board, everybody is done with TNA for good and yet you all keep watching and posting. They must be doing something right to make thier most frustrated critics continue to follow along.

 

 

Personally, I still have tapes of WCW from the early nWo days to when it started sinking and got boring a few months or so after the finger poke of doom. And breifly started following again with the new blood.

 

I have much of the attitude era and evolution from WWE. I have not watched smackdown in a couple of years and tune into Raw only occasionally and don't find usually it that compelling. Never watched ECWv2 or NXT.

 

I started following TNA from shortly before it got a TV deal and have watched it since it's days on FSN. The stoylines and characters are geting better, and the production is a lot better. I miss the faster paced x-division matches and the international talent from the FSN days though. It's not as good as the old days, but more entertaining and compelling than anything I've seen in a few yrs from the competition.

 

 

I agree with some of the assessments on the last few pages regarding the weaknesses of pushing their own talent and think they have tried a little too hard to be like WWE the point that it's started to cost them their identity. I would also like to see less blood on TV; I like the fact that it's more geared towards adults than WWE, but it's a little much lately.

[PeterHilton]

1) EB wasn't writing it before. Not a guarantee, but does give some hope.(btw, I don't recall, what even happened to MEM?) It's also not as random as they've laid the foundation from the moment they came in.

 

Eric isn't a writer and he's never been a writer. He's more big picture. And I sincerely doubt they've 'laid the foundation' for anything since they came in because - as has been mentioned - a lot of the storylines changed and evolved due to roster moves and - also mentioned before - many of the people involved in the storylines weren't even available when Eric and Hogan signed on.

 

C'mon..I'm supposed to believe that Hardy turning heel is somehow related to him showing up on the first night and sitting on the top of the cage?

 

And nothing happened with MEM. Nothing. It was a way to elevate...ummm...Morgan? Joe? Get Scott Steiner airtime? It died due to a lack of direction and fizzled out when people got bored. No one was elevated or helped in any way.

 

2) Aside from bob and janice (which I only knew from reading about online), I thought most of them were fairly obvious, and as is it turned out bob and janice didn't even matter and may have just been a way to swerve the internet community and take your attention away from more obvious things. BTW (spoiler alert)

 

Maybe. But I'd also say you're in the minority because even the writers who review the show for wrestling sites have not picked up on these 'clues.' And since nothing in the spoilers made it seem like they did any kind of comprehensive recap I still think people really won't pick up on it.

 

 

3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan

 

DX was derivative. And yes the nWo was a rip-off of a Japanese storyline. That's not the point. MOST storylines are 'rip-offs'of something else. But you're ripping off the nWo using several of the exact same lead characters. In the same position.

 

It's not just a rip-off..it's a BLATANT rip-off using several characters that are waaaay past their prime (Hogan, Sting) to re-create a story that was done to death a decade ago and then making it worse by tying the albatross that is Jeff Jarrett to it's neck.

 

I didn't watch the new version of Rocky or Rambo. Why would I watch this?

 

4)first of all TNA, WCW, WWE all try, or have tried, to end in suspense to get you you to tune in the next show to see what happened, this is no different. Sometimes it's going off the air during a brawl without knowing the outcome, sometimes it's discovering someone's been assaulted backstage, but leaving without saying who the attacker was etc. You've gotta admit, it's better than trying to solve for the third or 4th time at that it was HHH that ran over HBK.

 

No. It's not. In both cases it's crap. I didnt want to see Cena vs Orton for the millionth time. I didn't want to see Trips vs HBK for the millionth time. And I certainly don't want to watch Easy Eric and Hollywood Hogan run wild on the goo guys...for the millionth time.

 

With the popularity of shows like 24, prisonbreak, lost, etc I think it's not a bad thing to try.

 

What are they trying? Again..the only person seeing this complex mystery is you.Until I read some spoilers that indicate a story beyond "We're Taking Over!" then it's meaningless to suggest it's anything other than that.

[Bigpapa42]

3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan

 

As long as they change it enough, it could still feel different which is what matters.

 

I honestly have a tough time regarding D-X as a ripoff of the nWo. In that they were both stables with key players, sure. But how they came about was very different, as was their intent and their individual evolutions. If D-X was a ripoff, then kudos to the WWF for doing it properly by changing enough things that it felt fresh and unique.

 

And that is where TNA fails. Miserably, in my opinion. TNA goes out of the way to make the storylines feel like what they are ripping off. Rather than change things so it doesn't come across like a ripoff, they go out of their way to emphasize the similarities. If the intent of the Bound for Glory main event angle wasn't to have an nWo feel to it, then TNA is a bigger mess than I thought.

[Stennick]

Liontamer you're giving them WAY too much faith on this twisting turning storyline. Usually with storylines like that or movies or television shows that have a twist ending they usually go into detail how they got to the point they were at.

 

Spoiler

 

When Flair joins Hogan they don't say "see when he was doing this I was here doing that" they don't do anything like that. They come out, hug, smile and say "we were on the same page the whole time" yeah because that makes sense. Flair and Hogan getting bloodied and beaten while fighting each other back in March seems like it was part of the plan.

 

This whole "follow the clues" thing you're talking about doesn't exist. You ever play six degrees from Kevin Bacon or whatever it is? The real point of the game is that if you try and you can link any two things together. Heck I think they have it for Wiki pedia. I was able to get Hitler and Ryland with three degrees of seperation. You can create any stupid story and then months later bring everyone in that story together and say "GOTCHA" it doesn't really mean you did anything. If thats the case then Cena joining Nexus has been in the works since he was a thug rapper. "I ditched my bad guys ways to make you people fall in love and worship me just so I could rip your hearts out". You can manipulate the story anyway you want but to truly believe that they planned it from the start is naive at best.

 

I haven't and won't be watching TNA. Its impossible to not find out spoilers since their all over the internet and people talk. People knew what WCW were doing in 2000 and yet nobody cared and nobody watched. You can know the convulted dumb storylines by absorbing them from being online and then you can come in here and say "vintage TNA" doesn't mean "you're following".

[liontamer]

Maybe I am giving them too much credit. time will tell. I'll see if I can find the appropriate clips on youtube to show some of what I've been talking about in terms of the clues.

 

 

Also, just because certain people are on the same side now, does not mean they necessarily were on the same side all along. A don't know if Flair was on hogan's side already by the first live match or not, but there were some major hints that fortune was with hogan and JJ over the past few months. It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

 

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

[Lo-Drew]

So I've had 24 hours to try and think of something that interests me enough to tune in. I thought I would go through TNA and look at each part of it.

 

TAG TEAMS:

We've just had MCMG vs. Gen Me, now we're looking to have MCMG vs. TEam 3D again and we got Beer Money. Those seems to be the only active tag teams in TNA aside from Ink Inc and lets face it their pretty bland and generic. So all this "Vince doesn't care about tag team wrestling" whining that some TNA fans do (not here) is silly since they have about three tag teams that are any good in the ring and the only two out of the ring that are interesting are MCMG and Beer Money. Gen Me are bland and boring, so are Ink Inc. They have tats thats about as interesting as they are. Team 3D are great on the stick but forgive the pun their shtick is tired and played out. So there is zero interest in the tag team division at this point. Last night was as good as it gets and frankly that was just indy tag team spot fest v.234

 

KNOCKOUTS

When this division was created it had women like Gail Kim, Amazing Kong, ODB, since then its had Cheerleader Melissa/Allisa Flash, Hamada, Daffney, Tara etc. Everyone blasted the WWE for not having a legit womens division even with Natalia Hart, Mickie James and Beth Phoenix all still being a part of said division. Along with Melina. So they seem to reboot it focused on the BP's even if none of them can hold a candle to the "original" Knockouts. That being said atleast their not WWE cast offs, their once again going with their own girls and doing what they can with who they can. Then they bring Tara back, then they bring Mickie in. Even though Mickie is most likely getting more than the released girls combined and maybe more than all four girls in that ring last night. None the less they seem to have re invested in the Knockout division. What do they do with this investment? Do they use her to bring up the other gals in the division? Do they have her legitimize one of the BP's? Sadly no they start a feud off with two WWE Divas. For all the smack talk they have done on Vince and the Divas and now their main women's feud is set to be two former WWE divas. Its not even like Tara is the most over woman in the division she's a distant third behind Madison and Angelina. That doesn't matter to TNA when they can do WWE feuds.

 

The X DIVISION

Low Ki, Jerry Lynn, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Chris Sabin, Joe, even names like Michael Shane, Elix Skipper, Kazarian, Amazing Red they have had some of the most talented, original in ring talents of this decade in that division. Now who do they have? So far I've gathered the main stays are Doug Williams, Amazing Red, Suicide and Jay Lethal. You could argue Kaz but it seems he's busy jobbing to ECW at the moment. Even those names are respectable so who do they have Jay Lethal feud with? A man that was main eventing shows, opening and closing Impact, who was having the palm eating out of his hand as he feuded with the second biggest name in the last three decades of wrestling? They go from him doing that to feuding with a bad c list celebrity rip off. This is why this company fails they just can't pull the trigger on anyone that isn't in the WWE. Even guys like AJ Styles who have been there since show one take a back seat to THREE former WWE acts in the main event of their biggest pay per view. The division is a joke and if the best they can do is Rob Eckos than they should just give up. Could it be a fun little feud? Sure but you know what? Its not for Jay Lethal, the guy is above the fun little fued act and should be one of the top five babyfaces in the company at this point.

 

The Main Event:

Does everyone realize that the main event featured three former WWE guys? You can argue all you want that Angle has made himself a part of TNA and he has, and you can argue that Anderson has made himself into a star he has. My argument though is that they have AJ Styles, Joe, Pope, Jay Lethal, the names go on of guys they have built up and only knocked them back down the card to feature these guys. Do you know what Vince changed guys names and pushed homegrown guys or home grown gimmicks over everything else? Because you don't come across second rate that way. This main event could have main evented a RAW in 2006.

 

With Fortune clearly on the back burner and clearly going nowhere after their loss to EV2 and with Desmond Wolfe on the sidelines and even if he wasn't he'd be put in a position to fail anyway I have no reason to watch this company. I might give them a shot after they have their next life changing forever omgz event. You know once Eric and Hogan get done rap....er I mean working for TNA they might want to see what Ole Anderson is donig. Maybe the Black Scorpion can show up and next years BFG.

 

I fully agree with them not pulling the trigger on creating stars. Lethal's a great example but I mainly use Samoa Joe. In my honest opinion, Joe should have won the TNA Heavyweight belt at BFG 06 instead of Sting. And they pulled the trigger on the Joe and Angle feud about a year early.

 

Pope is another example. I can't think of any wrestler who was as hot as Pope was in the beginning of the year. The man had to crowd in his hands and TNA did a solid job building up his match with Styles. So what do they do? Pope loses to Styles only to frop the belt five days later to RVD. Now granted, I like AJ a lot, but clearly that was the time for Pope to win. Since then Pope has just been there and that's a shame considering how great he is.

 

TNA relies too much on WWE cast-offs instead of worrying about their homegrown talent. But then again, most of that homegrown talent is either gone from the company or stuck in the midcard. Examples would be Monty Brown, Abyss, AJ Styles, AMW, Chris Sabin, Robert Roode, Matt Bentley.

 

Basically, TNA's a mess.

[PeterHilton]

It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

 

Or it could have been 'fly by the seat of your pants booking' based off of a 10 year old storyline they're re-doing because they didn't trust their homegrown stars enough to let them run with the ball.

 

Based on TNA's past...I JUST CAN'T DECIDE WHICH IS MORE LIKELY.

[Johnny Fenoli]

spoilers, I guess:

[ampulator]

spoilers, I guess:

lolwut

[cappyboy]

spoilers, I guess:

 

You know it's funny. I saw a story about this on AOL the other day and even AFTER reading it, I didn't get who this person was or what it had to with anything. That link says more just coming up than AOL's story in several paragraphs.

[Stennick]

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

 

Much respect LT *cyber fist dap*

 

The reason I get frustrated over TNA is they have stars I like. In fact at one time they had more characters I liked than the WWE. Let me list the things I liked about TNA and how in the last seven months they have killed it. Not in order.

 

AJ Styles turning Heel. I liked it, AJ is very underrated on the mic and he has shown he's MORE than capable of being the top guy in the ring and on the stick. Although is Prince Phenomenal was a joke I think it got him "comfortable" for lack of a better term on the mic. That may have been the most mic time anyone has ever given AJ and although it was a silly character it got him in front of the crowd, playing a heel, in the main event and tons of mic and air time. In TEW terms it built up his mic skills. They then decided that turning AJ wasn't enough. They had to frost his tips (I assume since he wouldn't go full blonde like they were talking about) he put on a "Ric Flair" robe and starts a feud with Abyss who by the way is wearing red and yellow, carrying around Hogan's ring and "hulking up". Generally trying to redo 1994 all over again.

 

Matt Morgan's "We" character. Much like AJ they built this guy up on the mic and got him comfortable by having him around Jim Cornette. Then came his "we" character and he was gold. He was getting better and better every week in the ring and on the mic. They had mostly dropped his "blueprint" character which I thought was dumb anyway. Then they kill that to job him to Joe in what turned out to be a COMPLETELY meaningless match. For anyone that believes this was played out and Joe's kidnapping was planned. Answer me why they would job Morgan out upon Joe's return? What good did that do Joe? He didn't go onto face Morgan on pay per view or atleast nothing sustatainable, and it killed Morgan's ENTIRE character so he could become Ric Flair's bodyguard?

 

The Pope, the guy was on FIRE going into Lockdown. In fact I bought a ticket TO Lockdown to see Desmond Wolfe and The Pope. He loses and thats fine and understandable except for what a week or two later Rob Van Dam becomes the TNA Champion only for him to not even lose the title. They felt he was so important that they had to take the championship off of him for virtually no reason and they couldn't even do it with a loss. At any rate they could have pulled the Trigger on the Pope right there. Have Pope in the main event of Bound for Glory against Hardy. He's already face, he's great on the mic, he's crazy white hot and Hardy turning him would help everyone involved.

 

I was one of the first people to praise TNA for pushing Jay Lethal. I loved it from the get go, from the Ric Flair impersonations into him becoming his "own" man. I loved most of that feud although he's went from beating Ric Flair to being beat up by a guy who's not going to have that character in six months.

 

I could go on but this is depressing. At anyrate THATS why I cared about TNA, thats why I had such high hopes for them. Their "push the young guys and make it interesting" was really paying off. Pope, Morgan, AJ, Lethal, Wolfe, MCMG, Beer Money, etc."

 

And aside from maybe MCMG each one has had their push seriously altered, screwed up and almost put right back where they were in March. Thats why I cared because for a few months it was looking like this thing was going to be something and now in the last few months its become clear their right back were they were.

[Johnny Fenoli]

You know it's funny. I saw a story about this on AOL the other day and even AFTER reading it, I didn't get who this person was or what it had to with anything. That link says more just coming up than AOL's story in several paragraphs.

 

 

She's one of the most popular "characters" from a very popular MTV reality show, called the Jersey Shore, for which "the shore" is an over the top rip off of.

[Hyde Hill]

Maybe I am giving them too much credit. time will tell. I'll see if I can find the appropriate clips on youtube to show some of what I've been talking about in terms of the clues.

 

 

Also, just because certain people are on the same side now, does not mean they necessarily were on the same side all along. A don't know if was on hogan's side already by the first live match or not, but there were some major hints that was with hogan and JJ over the past few months. It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

 

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

 

Because in Stennick's case he did watch the show and if you read the right recap's they include everything. I agree that some people just read spoilers or read/listen to/watch online commentary and base their opinions on that. And that is just bad. But if you read the full recap from say PWI which just reports what happened and is very complete you know what is going on even subtle small clues as with the camera not catching where Abyss destroyed Hardy and dragged him out to the ring later. Or obvious ones as the Angle vs Hardy finish at No Surrender before BFG now makes sense as Bisch was looking for any reason to make it a tie. The rematch on Impact either EB and H got lucky or they bribed the Hebnars.

 

Still there is a lot left that does not make sense and fooling/surprising everyone, which they didn't just slightly with Hardy and the Hogan is still in hospital, is no great feet.

 

And on the spoiler:

 

Having read it it comes of as Fourtune being the NWO black and white aka B team, it depends how it plays out though but that is the most obvious one. Hopefully they eventually resent the role and go face against "They" but we shall see. Until something along those lines happens not watching and not giving real attention or money.

[Hyde Hill]

Or it could have been 'fly by the seat of your pants booking' based off of a 10 year old storyline they're re-doing because they didn't trust their homegrown stars enough to let them run with the ball.

 

Based on TNA's past...I JUST CAN'T DECIDE WHICH IS MORE LIKELY.

 

Neh it's not fly by the seat of our pants its more just dumb and bad booking even-though it's planned out.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm the new spoilers look more encouraging, might have to retract my opinion on the old ones.

[Anderz]

Don't fully agree but still an entertaining review.

 

 

the guy raises a great point about Sting... what the hell was he doing all this time if he knew this was gonna happen?

 

"act as heelish as possible so nobody believes you" - absolutely stupid booking.. as is Nash going over Joe..

 

I could list a whole host of other 'wtf?' booking decisions but most have already been covered..

 

Ill keep watching TNA, but my head will not thank me for it..

[liontamer]

First to Stenicks post: I agree on AJ (also perplexed about the whole TV title thing and how he's going to defend it every week, but never does). I agree on Morgan, not to mention he lost to Kendrick recently. I agree on lethal, he was the main reason to tune in for a few weeks there and now he's been reduced to nothing again. But I only partly agree on pope. He was on a roll before he kept getting attacked by wolfe. But that said, won some pretty big matches during the tournament (uncluding external matches like pinning angle in the final four tag match on impact), and most of those he lost were due to foul play. They may put the title back on Sting, maybe. Highly doubt it's going on Nash. I think Pope will have a strong push for a title shot before next year's end, either the world title, or taking the Legends/Global/TV title off of AJ.

 

As for the clues, I'm only doing this once, because it's very time consuming (6 hrs to be exact). It's not comprehensive, but it's enough for the major stuff, some of it very repetitive (which is why it amazes me some parts of this storyline were unseen by people). It's close to chronological order, a few may be off. This is the evidence for the 1st and most likely version I proposed before, based on the most obvious storylines, there are still other possiblities as to where it will go.

 

This starts after Sting returns to attack Hogan and abyss and starts brawlling with RVD

 

 

 

Deception interview Sting not sure if RVD is in on it or a pawn

 

 

Nash vs JJ part two, gives possible motive for why hulk and EB have been avoiding him (presumably, for bringing back hall and waltman, although I think EB was in on that), Nash is threatened with suspension like sting

 

 

Sting vs JJ, HH, and EB

 

 

Segment 1: Hogan 'welcomes' Ev2. To me what I hear is Hogan is upset Dixie didn't let him in on Ev2, about the compairson of Ev2 to him, and he states he basically missed everything they did while he was in WCW with the nWo (he's slighting them, not complimenting them). Per Abyss THEY are pissed about Ev2 and hold Dixie responsible

Same clip, 2nd half of 2nd last segment, EB not happy with Dixie's decisions, tries to upstage her and sets up the Abyss RVD match. Abyss comes out and confronts, but never attacks EB

 

 

 

 

Segment 1: Hardy and Angle Draw while Hardy is in the ankle lock. EB advances both, Dixie overrides and makes a rematch. Bischoff looks upset

 

Segment 1 and part of segment 2 same show (but carried onto reaction): They Tie Again, EB is happy, dixie is not. Not sure it matters, but I do note the hebners are involved. Segment three reactions from EB and dixie.

 

So here's my take whether it was a plan from the go or something that developed later, hogan and EB were conspiring to control TNA (warning, I found it pretty much impossible to keep this perfectly chronological). They brought in everybody (Hall, Waltman, the nasties, OJ, Bubba, Hardy, RVD, Anderson etc - not sure hall and waltment were intended by HH and EB, although EB seemed in on it). I doubt any of the last three were in on it initially and I don't think they are with fortune (that monday night hogan/abyss, flair AJ match was just to make headlines to compete with Raw). Anyway, Sting (who had skipped interviews and appearances since Hogan took over to show his disapproval and later voiced it while attacking Dixie) could smell a rat and attacked.

 

hogan knows the power that goes with the title and given that he and EB are very power hungry they wanted one of their guys to become champ (since hogan can't wrestle anymore). In comes RVD. I'm not sure if they were playing RVD from the start or not. My feeling is they had no reason to until Ev2 showed up and he showed allegiance to them (not to mention they were loyal to dixie who Hogan and EB are trying to screw over). This makes RVD one of the enemies so they need to take the title off of him. Hardy and abyss fail mutple times and thus they need a plan to Remove RVD (as abyss stated multiple times).

 

Initially, JJ also knew what was going on, but then joined HH and EB to oust Dixie and try to get some of the power back. Nash tries unsuccessfully to set up a meeting with HH and EB, meets tessmacher and suddenly sides with sting against HH (sting was previously suspended for his efforts and Nash is threateded with suspension. Dixie is given bodyguards to keep her from contacting these sting so that she doesn't find out what he knows). Pope later finds out from tessmacher and joins forces. In between, we see the first proof I'm aware of that fortune is with HH and JJ when the attack Sting and Nash only during the arguement between the four. I'm not sure when they joined forces, but my guess would be somewhere around the time Ev2 showed up. It wouldn't make since to have been earlier as they would have just kept the title on AJ and there would have been no reason for the long feud with flair and AJ. Basically they needed a large group to take care of the problem and these guys answered.

 

The smoke and mirrors sting and Nash keep talking about are Hulk and Eric constantly talking about how they are here for TNA, falsely befriending Dixie, and trying to make it look like they are the faces and Sting and Nash are the bad guys, in addition to the abyss 'THEY' storyline.,

 

We also see JJ try to recruit Joe and even though he later helps JJ, he intially refuses and states he's basically in this for himself and therefore he can't be trusted and gets screwed at the PPV

 

As for Hardy, I don't know when he's first in on it, but the seeds are planted with his losses to RVD and all of the overly positive interviews about their relationship. Going into BFG, I thought he may turn, but wasn't sure and thought anderson and or angle could have also turned. Looking back, I think they were definitely with Hardy (they called his near loss to angle a draw just as he was liekly about to tap), and angle may have been in on it as well and lead to believe he'd get the title win (as they drew again which is what EB wanted and not at all what dixie wanted and gives EB a back up plan in case something happens to hardy. Not to mention per the reports he tweeted he is upset they chose hardy overy him and the supposed phone call from hulk endorsing him at the start of impact)

 

Things I don't know: if hulk was with EB all along on this plan or not. EB seemed like a heel all along, Hulk seemed to vary, especially the first few weeks. I'm also not sure what the fake argument before hardy turned at BFG was about unless maybe they were still not yet in agreement on it or on whether it'd be hardy or angle. That would also explain Anderson's comments and brawl with angle on reaction before BFG

 

My bet is that now that they have accomplished what they came together for, some of the different players in the new group may start to go their own ways after a few weeks and there may be further storylines within the storyline, but we'll see, I've been wrong before ..... they still haven't explained Joe's kidnapping or what dixie's surprise was going to be.

 

I also have a feeling that the whole ranking 's system has been to keep the title on their guys by limting other's title shots. Who were constantly in the top spots?... Anderson, RVD, Hardy, Abyss, all of whom initially were with hogan whether or not they were in on this particular plan at the time or not.

 

 

and to answer the most recent post's point about sting..... he's been trying to warn us/dixie and he tried to take the title off of RVD who I believe was aligned with them at the time. That said, the fact that he didn't do more,especially when she wanted answers when she suspended him, makes me wonder (although I also wonder what more he could do, heck choking the woman didn't get her attention), which along with them beating the crap out of Joe when JJ left at BFG (why else if Joe is not part of THEY?) is the only reason I had the version where he and nash end up joining THEY.

 

I hope I covered everything important.

 

 

 

-----------------------------

Unrelated, but I just saw Raw did a 2.9. Granted it was against MNF , but when's the last time that happened? And I keep seeing people blame Orton, who I always liked when I followed more regularly.

 

And I just read the angle with RVD for the 21st's impact spoilers and am confused. Did I miss something in the BFG results? Anyway, it may tie into one of the videos above, athough it seems very unlikely.

 

And finally, I don't think they are going here, but something odd and dark enough that I could see Heyman doing it would if he were there would be to say that THEY chose abyss and hardy because they were susceptible to mind control given abyss's mental problems and Hardy's drug problems. That seems to be a big theme in music videos these days, so why not wrestling?

 

I think I've posted more in the last 48 hrs than in all of my previous time on the boards so hopefully someone finds use out of it.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok that makes more sense but as Stennick said you can make anything make sense. Sting talking about Hogan and EB wanting power was clear from the get go even-though the way they progressed it was as muddled as hell. Still didn't mean that Deception and "They" where the same thing and doesn't explain a lot of other thing's with Joe's kidnapping being a prime example or makes it a good or interesting move.

 

Also I have no faith in TNA actually explaining the things you just pointed out but instead just moving on and leaving people in the dark or trying to figure it out ourselves like you just did the effort to do, kudos on that btw, fact remains that nostalgia and relevant over guys from elsewhere still dominate TNA screen-time etc wise by a big margin and as papa pointed out this does not feel "fresh".

 

Unless the nostalgia trip lessens I ain't coming back.

 

On RAW doing 2.9 they did below that 2 and 3 weeks ago. And normally WWE does higher against football, wrestling in general is gradually loosing its fanbase/popularity. Our biggest hope unfortunately is TNA and it will take some time again before they will get a clue (again).

[PeterHilton]

I hope I covered everything important.

 

You did a great recap. But unless they convey ALL of that to the viewing audience, it's utterly pointless.

 

 

Unrelated, but I just saw Raw did a 2.9. Granted it was against MNF , but when's the last time that happened? And I keep seeing people blame Orton, who I always liked when I followed more regularly.

 

 

The ratings have been dropping steadily for weeks now. I don't know how anyone can blame Orton since Cena/Nexus is still the focus of the shows.