The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

At least one of the talents that deserves it IMHO is getting a push, too bad it's outta nowhere though. Probably due to the injury of a certain someone.

[PeterHilton]

It's probably due to injury. And it is deserved. But it's really REALLY out of nowhere and the storyline doesn't make sense, despite the fact that it's grounded in a "real" issue.

[djthefunkchris]

I figure by the end of this year, or beginning of next year, we have us a new TNA world champion... HULK HOGAN!

 

I'm not joking, I see it coming... and I'm still watching, lol.

[crownsy]

TNA's Hulk Hogan posted a new worked-shoot video blog tonight promoting upcoming changes to TNA storylines. Hogan said it's about to "get real" with the elimination of "fake" characters and storylines.

 

"I guess you could call this the final warning to the weak, the frail, the faint of heart. TNA is for real. It's going to get more real as we move along in the coming weeks," Hogan said.

 

"We're not going to be like wrestling used to be with a bunch of fake-poo (PG) wrestlers and fake storylines. We're going to start shooting. This is about drawing money. And if you don't draw money, you don't belong here.

 

"We're going to blow the roof off this place. We're going to do in TNA what should have been done all along. We're going to make it interesting. We're going to make it real interesting."

 

To view the video, http://www.twitvid.com/ZFNGA <--Click Here

 

Mabey they can start with that stupid jersey shore gimmick storyline or any of the other storylines that fit right into his definition of "fake wrestling crap"

[juggaloninjalee]

I thought the character of Matt Morgan last night came off well. Makes sense as to why he acted how he did. The short statement he made was all that was needed to be said to justify it. Hope this turns into a long running push for Morgan.

[PeterHilton]

I thought the character of Matt Morgan last night came off well. Makes sense as to why he acted how he did. The short statement he made was all that was needed to be said to justify it. Hope this turns into a long running push for Morgan.

 

I only caught the last 20 minutes and the last angle on Reaction, but I feel like we're watching two different shows...

 

It made NO SENSE to me. I like Morgan. I love that he's getting a push. I don't even mind that they did the turn in one night since it was a reaction to an injury and TNA's taping schedule.

 

But concussions in sports? REALLY?? This was a guy who's main storyline over the last few months involved him putting people "out of commission" by stomping their heads against a metal ring post.

 

But now he's worried about head injuries in sports? And TNA watchers are ok with this?

 

And also (and i know this is nitpicky) but why have JJ pick up the win there? Especially a clean win? It makes no sense. You already have a beatdown schedule by Fourtune after the match. So why not have them either A) run in after Morgan gets the duke or B) cause Morgan to lose through interference before jumping him? JJ winning served no purpose whatsoever. My opinion is colored by the fact that JJ is by far my least favorite major wrestling character of the last decade...but still...what did him winning do there?

 

These are simple booking decisions that any goober playing TEW would avoid.

[Slagaholic]

But concussions in sports? REALLY?? This was a guy who's main storyline over the last few months involved him putting people "out of commission" by stomping their heads against a metal ring post.

 

But now he's worried about head injuries in sports? And TNA watchers are ok with this?

Eric Bischoff pointed that out and Matt Morgan responded saying that the guys he put out of commission were out for at least 3 weeks and didn't have a match against Morgan just one week later.

 

Kinda flimsy but at least they acknowledged it.

 

 

And also (and i know this is nitpicky) but why have JJ pick up the win there? Especially a clean win? It makes no sense. You already have a beatdown schedule by Fourtune after the match. So why not have them either A) run in after Morgan gets the duke or B) cause Morgan to lose through interference before jumping him? JJ winning served no purpose whatsoever. My opinion is colored by the fact that JJ is by far my least favorite major wrestling character of the last decade...but still...what did him winning do there?

I wonder the same thing. It was a total Russo-move. I don't hate him as much as most of the IWC but one of his favorite things to do is to have the face lose clean and then beat the crap out of the heel to get his heat back. But...it makes no sense since it's the face. I've been watching some 1999-2000 WCW and it happened at least once a month.

 

These are simple booking decisions that any goober playing TEW would avoid.

They would have instead held a Matt Morgan/Jeff Jarrett Face off, no contact angle with the entire X-Division holding them back.

[PeterHilton]

Eric Bischoff pointed that out and Matt Morgan responded saying that the guys he put out of commission were out for at least 3 weeks and didn't have a match against Morgan just one week later.

 

Kinda flimsy but at least they acknowledged it.

 

I did miss that earlier in the show. Still..like you said..flimsy..

 

They would have instead held a Matt Morgan/Jeff Jarrett Face off, no contact angle with the entire X-Division holding them back.

 

 

I think a simple "face-almost-wins-then-the-heels-rush-in-for-the-beatdown would've been fine.

[juggaloninjalee]

I only caught the last 20 minutes and the last angle on Reaction, but I feel like we're watching two different shows...

 

It made NO SENSE to me. I like Morgan. I love that he's getting a push. I don't even mind that they did the turn in one night since it was a reaction to an injury and TNA's taping schedule.

 

But concussions in sports? REALLY?? This was a guy who's main storyline over the last few months involved him putting people "out of commission" by stomping their heads against a metal ring post.

 

But now he's worried about head injuries in sports? And TNA watchers are ok with this?

 

And also (and i know this is nitpicky) but why have JJ pick up the win there? Especially a clean win? It makes no sense. You already have a beatdown schedule by Fourtune after the match. So why not have them either A) run in after Morgan gets the duke or B) cause Morgan to lose through interference before jumping him? JJ winning served no purpose whatsoever. My opinion is colored by the fact that JJ is by far my least favorite major wrestling character of the last decade...but still...what did him winning do there?

 

These are simple booking decisions that any goober playing TEW would avoid.

 

As stated already Bischoff mentioned the Hernandez thing and Morgan replied that yeah but when he put people out they were not back in the ring for a few months. I think he said there is a difference between ruining careers and ruining lives or something. Maybe that is a misquote.

 

I didn't like JJ winning clean and didn't understand the point in a chain match here. Isn't a chain match to counter the fact that 1 guy continues to hit and run? The issues Fortune are having with Williams are good. Hopefully he gets kicked out soon because there is no point for him to be in the group.

 

Once again though Jeff Hardy had a decent promo. Not liking how he calls himself the antichrist of wrestling.

[jhd1]

As stated already Bischoff mentioned the Hernandez thing and Morgan replied that yeah but when he put people out they were not back in the ring for a few months. I think he said there is a difference between ruining careers and ruining lives or something. Maybe that is a misquote.

 

I didn't like JJ winning clean and didn't understand the point in a chain match here. Isn't a chain match to counter the fact that 1 guy continues to hit and run? The issues Fortune are having with Williams are good. Hopefully he gets kicked out soon because there is no point for him to be in the group.

 

Once again though Jeff Hardy had a decent promo. Not liking how he calls himself the antichrist of wrestling.

 

Presumably the chain match was something to do with Anderson only having one arm (i.e. giving him no chance to win). Could be wrong though.

 

I don't like the antichrist thing either, not because I find it offensive or anything, but because as a label it doesn't really mean anything.

[PeterHilton]

As stated already Bischoff mentioned the Hernandez thing and Morgan replied that yeah but when he put people out they were not back in the ring for a few months. I think he said there is a difference between ruining careers and ruining lives or something. Maybe that is a misquote.

 

 

I just don't think that it's a good way to turn Morgan. Over-all, it just made no sense. I'm glad Eric pointed out the hypocrisy, but in that case it's still sorta dumb....why not just work an angle that DOESN'T have a giant hole in the logic?

[Self]

Haven't seen any of this, but I like how TNA are doing a storyline around a contemporary issue in sports. I'd love to see more of this. Instead of typical wrestling storylines, look at controversies at the forefront of modern sports, and do something with that. Concussions. Drug testing. Wayne Rooney's been in the papers a lot recently. Anything that can be done with that?

[PeterHilton]

Haven't seen any of this, but I like how TNA are doing a storyline around a contemporary issue in sports. I'd love to see more of this. Instead of typical wrestling storylines, look at controversies at the forefront of modern sports, and do something with that. Concussions. Drug testing. Wayne Rooney's been in the papers a lot recently. Anything that can be done with that?

 

I actually agree..I think it's smart to use current events and issues, even if I don't think this is especially a good use in this case.

 

The only problem is, How Far Do You Go? If you broach these serious subjects, don't you leave yourself open to some serious criticism if you aren't completely honest? For instance, can you really bring up the subject of drug use when Jeff Hardy is still facing charges and you have/had guys like Angle and Steiner on the roster with a history of serious drug issues? If you use 'concussions in sports' don't you have to address it every time you run an angle with overt violence or blood ...which is quite a lot in TNA's case.

 

As for Rooney: free agency and contract negotiations would be interesting except where would a TNA free agent be threatening to leave to? Would TNA have the nads to run an angle where someone like AJ Styles threatens to go to WWE if he doesn't get a raise from Fourtune..(I'd actually be REALLY interested in something like that. Fake tweets. Vague interviews alluding to a company "up north." maybe even do a press conference one-on-one interview to spoof Lebron's "announcement" Might have to steal that for my diary. )

[Self]

I actually agree..I think it's smart to use current events and issues, even if I don't think this is especially a good use in this case.

 

The only problem is, How Far Do You Go? If you broach these serious subjects, don't you leave yourself open to some serious criticism if you aren't completely honest? For instance, can you really bring up the subject of drug use when Jeff Hardy is still facing charges and you have/had guys like Angle and Steiner on the roster with a history of serious drug issues? If you use 'concussions in sports' don't you have to address it every time you run an angle with overt violence or blood ...which is quite a lot in TNA's case.

 

As for Rooney: free agency and contract negotiations would be interesting except where would a TNA free agent be threatening to leave to? Would TNA have the nads to run an angle where someone like AJ Styles threatens to go to WWE if he doesn't get a raise from Fourtune..(I'd actually be REALLY interested in something like that. Fake tweets. Vague interviews alluding to a company "up north." maybe even do a press conference one-on-one interview to spoof Lebron's "announcement" Might have to steal that for my diary. )

 

I'm not familiar enough with how TNA are running this concussion angle to pass judgement, but I like the concussion element.

 

As for How Far Do You Go... It's a tricky balance. A lot of hot button issues in sports have an element of governing issues looking fallible. For example, in MMA you hear of a lot of guys who are taking steroids, but passing the tests because they know how to cycle. When you hear about this, the UFC can come across as a bit incompetent, unable to keep drugs from their sport, and as a rule wrestling promotions don't want to seem incompetent in any way. I think an issue here is the separation between the Real TNA, the Dixie Carter owned company that puts on scripted fictional entertainment shows, and the kayfabe TNA, a legitimate sporting organisation that only exists in the TV show. You can make the kayfabe promotion look stupid, without making the real company look stupid.

 

A heel who is clearly 'on the gas' but repeatedly passes his tests due to knowing how to cycle, or tampering with tests, or some other dastardly means. There might be something fresh and new to that. Perhaps if a fictional governing body, "The Global Drug Testing Commission" for example, was to be created on the show, they could be made out to be duped instead of TNA. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

My thoughts of the Rooney thing wouldn't quite work in TNA. It would harken back to a time when Managers 'owned' their client's contracts. Alex Fergusen would become a legendary, beloved babyface manager, and Rooney would become one of his star clients. A guy Ferguson took from practically nothing (sorry Everton) and brought to prominance. Now, years later, the Rooney character has an attitude problem, refusing to resign with the kindly old father figure, and looking for 'big money offers' from heel managers, and sleeping with his team-mate's wives... or whatever Rooney is doing, I skim read the sports section.

 

Off topic, but I'm having fun thinking about it, so sue me.

[PeterHilton]

Off topic, but I'm having fun thinking about it, so sue me.

 

Not at all...i really like the fake sports commission idea

 

And free agency/contracts would work fine in any era if there were more managers. Again, taking AJ as a for instance, he could try to 're-negotiate' with Flair but where would he go?

 

Actually I think both WWE and TNA have missed out on making their characters more relateable by treating their wrestlers more like modern athletes that fans are familiar with (contracts, free agency, signing periods, etc).

 

As for keeping the kayfabe and real TNA separate: it's tougher with TNA imo because there's a much higher percentage of the "smart" fans that watch TNA. That' why they do so much of the "worked shoot/media fake-out" thing. not impossible..but you'd just need to spend a lot of time feeding fake stories to the rag-sheets and get your roster to live their gimmick as much as possible. And you'd still fail some of the time just because the real world (Hardy's trial, Angle's arrest, etc) would keep interfering.

[Gabbo]

Now, years later, the Rooney character has an attitude problem, refusing to resign with the kindly old father figure, and looking for 'big money offers' from heel managers, and sleeping with his team-mate's wives... or whatever Rooney is doing, I skim read the sports section.

 

If you're actually interested he had a 6 month affair with a prostitute whilst his wife was pregnant with his child. Amongst other previous relationships with prostitutes.

 

John Terry was the scrote that had an affair with his team-mate's ex-wife.

 

 

Just to keep it on topic: I too would enjoy someone incorporating this contract, manager, signing malarkey.

[Self]

And free agency/contracts would work fine in any era if there were more managers. Again, taking AJ as a for instance, he could try to 're-negotiate' with Flair but where would he go?

 

He could sign with Bischoff instead? Cue Flair going "You took mah star" crazy.

 

Actually I think both WWE and TNA have missed out on making their characters more relateable by treating their wrestlers more like modern athletes that fans are familiar with (contracts, free agency, signing periods, etc).

 

Totally agree. A very nice way to put it.

 

As for keeping the kayfabe and real TNA separate: it's tougher with TNA imo because there's a much higher percentage of the "smart" fans that watch TNA. That' why they do so much of the "worked shoot/media fake-out" thing. not impossible..but you'd just need to spend a lot of time feeding fake stories to the rag-sheets and get your roster to live their gimmick as much as possible. And you'd still fail some of the time just because the real world (Hardy's trial, Angle's arrest, etc) would keep interfering.

 

How I'd run a wrestling show is very different to most. I come from a TV background, so I'd run it like a TV Show. The characters on the show are fictional characters. The wrestlers portraying them are (highly specialized) actors. Their real lives would have no effect on the story being told on screen. At least no more than an actor on a 'normal' prime time TV show. I'm not a fan of this 'worked shoot' stuff.

 

In a way, I feel TNA has a better chance of pulling stuff like this off, because they're number 2. They can take risks. They can afford to present their roster as a bit sleazier. Whereas WWE are a publicly traded company, with Linda running for Senate, and must stay squeeky clean. In another way, however, you're right.

[PeterHilton]

He could sign with Bischoff instead? Cue Flair going "You took mah star" crazy.

 

Absolutely. i *do* think it would work to have him or someone like him threaten to negotiate with the WWE, especially since the net loves running with those rumors too. And i actually might play with this concept in my diary to give it more form.

 

How I'd run a wrestling show is very different to most. I come from a TV background, so I'd run it like a TV Show. The characters on the show are fictional characters. The wrestlers portraying them are (highly specialized) actors. Their real lives would have no effect on the story being told on screen. At least no more than an actor on a 'normal' prime time TV show. I'm not a fan of this 'worked shoot' stuff.

 

In a way, I feel TNA has a better chance of pulling stuff like this off, because they're number 2. They can take risks. They can afford to present their roster as a bit sleazier. Whereas WWE are a publicly traded company, with Linda running for Senate, and must stay squeeky clean. In another way, however, you're right.

 

I'm going to continue to wander off topic since I like the convo...

 

I definitely agree that TNA has the chance to do more because they don't have as much to lose. And in a lot of ways, they WANT to be seen as the more risque product (making fun of the WWE's PG product is one of the few times i agree with them taking a shot at their competition).

 

As for how you'd present a show: I have no idea if it would work because it goes against everything that's ever been done in pro wrestling. In a weird way, the fact that kayfabe existed makes it virtually impossible to ever just come out and admit it's all a work.

 

The industry spent so much time trying to convince people they weren't fake that now it's just as hard to admit to people they are. Fans have this weird hang up about seeing wrestling as a TV show. I like your idea...it'd certainly make things easier... but you'd have to spend a lot of time changing the mentality of your fanbase though.

[sabataged]

This kind of goes along with what Self and the others are saying. TNA right now has a great opportunity to do a WWF Attitude type movement if thats what they want to do. The are the #2 promotion. They can afford to be riskier, edgier than the competition. Probably the best part of this is the fact that WWE can not match them. Even when WWF brought in Attitude, WCW tried to do hardcore matches and be cutting edge just like them. WWE is in no position to be able to get some edge right now with Linda running for senate and going all PG.

 

If TNA would start going more blood and sex they would be better off. The one thing about being cutting edge is, they need the right mix of guys to do it. And it has to be "fresh". I can't be the old ECW guys trying to do it. I don't have a problem with Hogan, Flair, and Bischoff being mouthpeices for their giant stable. I just think they don't need to be the focus of the promotion.

[Hyde Hill]

Thing is it is all about balance. Incorporating realism into your stories? Fine. Blurring the line too far and too much and you get a mess ala WCW 99-01. It's not so much what you do then how you do it/present it and how often etc. Much like Papa's freshness argument.

 

Same goes with the blood and risque. TNA gave us a lot of blood this year but it was too much at a certain point and became meaningless. They focused on the BP in the KO's the whole time and added Tessmacher and Chelsea and Hemme as sole backstage interviewer. But due to lack of skills in other departments or not just admitting this is Risque (bra and panties matches etc) and not real competition that didn't work either.

 

Balance and presentation is what matters and that is what TNA is often very very bad at.

[Self]

Thing is it is all about balance. Incorporating realism into your stories? Fine. Blurring the line too far and too much and you get a mess ala WCW 99-01. It's not so much what you do then how you do it/present it and how often etc. Much like Papa's freshness argument.

 

To me, if you're copying WCW in it's dying days, you're using the wrong kind of realism. Issues from backstage, the politics, the wrestler's real personas, the fact that it's predetermined. No. No no no. Just no. When I'm watching the show, I don't want to know what's "really going on" backstage. I want to watch a sports movie.

 

When I watch a Rocky movie, I don't want Rocky to be talking about how difficult it was to get financing for the movie. I want to see him train hard, have the fight of his life, and maybe have to pass a drug test along the way, because, you know, if he was a real fighter, that's something he'd have to do.

[SaySo]

Source - PWTorch

 

By Wade Keller

 

Hulk Hogan is spewing more pointless gibberish today that won't do anything to turn around TNA's fortunes. The in-house attitude in TNA for years has revolved around this faulty notion that TNA's market is "smart fans" who "don't want to be insulted" with "fake storylines" and "fake wrestlers."

 

That's not true. Not in any respect whatsoever.

 

TNA's market is all wrestling fans, not just the type of fans who check this site six times a day. TNA's market is people who want to get wrapped up in a fantasy sports combat world - one that has stars they care about and identify with, one that has action that is exciting and dramatic, one with storylines that make sense with an internal logic that applies from the start of the show to the finish of the show.

 

None of that is reliant on incorporating anything from "real life" into the TV show. That just gets in the way.

 

If you're watching a top TV series starring lawyers, doctors, vampires, or whatever, and if the main male star cheated on his wife with a female co-star, no intelligent scriptwriter or producer in Hollywood would force references to that real life situation into their show. It doesn't matter what happens to the actors in real life. What matter is whether their characters are well drawn and well acted. If an actor has irritable bowel syndrome, I don't want to hear about it on his show. If his son in real life has cancer, his TV son doesn't need to get cancer.

 

Nobody watching TNA is going to think anyone is really fighting each other. Nobody watching TNA cares if someone arguing on TV are really friends or enemies behind the scenes. If people want to see real fights, they'll watch UFC. If they want to hear people argue for real, they'll invite their in-laws over for a week.

 

People tune into TNA hoping to see an entertaining pro wrestling show with great athletes having dramatic simulated battles inside the ring with outcomes that have ramifications on what happens afterward.

 

Spike TV targets men 18-34 more than any other. Their advertising department is geared toward seeking advertisers looking for that demo. So why is TNA Impact dominated by athletes and personalities who are known among people 35-54 - people who were into WCW Nitro?

 

This obsession within TNA with pandering to fans with fake shoot storylines - such as tonight's concussion storyline inspired by a real-life concussion - just gets in the way. If they feel a concussion storyline is the best storyline they can feature, then do it whether someone has a real life concussion or not. It makes no difference at all that tonight's show is built around a real concussion situation. If there's a better storyline that isn't based around a concussion, then do that instead, even if it's totally made up.

 

Hogan says they should have been doing this all along. Well, first of all, he's wrong. Second of all, he doesn't have a clue how to execute what he's purporting to execute since he's already mixing his storyline feud with Dixie Carter into his supposed commitment to "no more fakery." And third, just to emphasize this point, nobody believes a word he's saying.

 

Hogan, Eric Bischoff, and Vince Russo are out of touch and behind the times. Their ideas are rooted in a 1995-2000 world, and a lot has happened since then.

 

Pro wrestling is going to succeed when it stops trying to be something it's not meant to be. It's not real. It's not better when fake storylines are based around reality. It's definitely not better when it spends the majority of the time talking about backstage power plays and 12 year old insider grudges that most don't know or care about (and even those who do know about it don't care about it anymore).

 

I understand Hogan feeling like he needs a Big Idea to give Dixie Carter some hope that the disastrous audience loss of last four hours of Impact can be turned around. This new idea is silly and based on a faulty premise that has plagued TNA for years.

 

This "we're getting real" idea isn't new or even a remotely smart strategy. It's transparently patronizing since the whole premise is that people are going to believe that because a dramatized scripted storyline on Impact was inspired by something in real life that anything else about it is real.

 

Just give us good matches with outcomes that matter and present us with athletes who can do dazzling things while telling their story in the ring. And stop doing a show within a show about the politics of backstage gamesmanship and powerplays. Wrestling fans care about wrestlers, not executives. They want to see wrestlers that relate to them, not to their uncles or dads.

[stratusfaction]

Wow, that brawl with the Knockouts at the beginning of Impact was intense...or I thought so anyway. TNA did more with their knockouts in 10 minutes then WWE has done with them all year! Not really sure why Sarita got the pinfal in the 3 vs 3 match but at least she is back and getting a push.

[dvdWarrior]

I didn't care all that much for the brawl myself. I was too busy wondering why TNA was having YET ANOTHER brawl that seemed to go on way too long.

 

But that was just me.

[20LEgend]

I didn't care all that much for the brawl myself. I was too busy wondering why TNA was having YET ANOTHER brawl that seemed to go on way too long.

 

But that was just me.

 

Definantly each week there's brawl like that.

 

Abyss vs Dinero was another and whilst not as bad it was still that on top of the other one and it's boring. I particularly remember Hardy vs Abyss (Funny thinking back at that) and Stevie Richards (who I like) vs Abyss thay are too long and soo so repetitive