The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

How dare you! Mick Foley is still one of my favorites! He can still put on good matches, cut good promos, and is the best hardcore wrestler of this generation! Sorry to go off on a rant! Just wondering why the heck you want him to leave. Same with Steiner. He cut IMO, the best promo in his career last night! "I don't discriminate against age!" Priceless! Sorry, I should stop ranting now!

 

Well I can't speak for Tag01 but I totally agree. Mick's character seems tired, almost like he is going through the motions. The storyline that he is currently in is just well boring, at least to me. Maybe it is just the way that TNA is using him, but I really have no interest in seeing him anymore.

 

As for Scott Steiner, I have to admit I did like that promo last night and I love what they are doing with him, making him delusional star not willing to admit that he is no longer part of the company's elite group.

 

That being said, I have not been a fan of Scott's since he became a singles wrestler. I was a huge Steiner Brothers fan, and once Rick was pushed in the background I just can not get into Scott as a singles wrestler.

[Wrestling Century]

Well I can't speak for Tag01 but I totally agree. Mick's character seems tired, almost like he is going through the motions. The storyline that he is currently in is just well boring, at least to me. Maybe it is just the way that TNA is using him, but I really have no interest in seeing him anymore.

 

As for Scott Steiner, I have to admit I did like that promo last night and I love what they are doing with him, making him delusional star not willing to admit that he is no longer part of the company's elite group.

 

That being said, I have not been a fan of Scott's since he became a singles wrestler. I was a huge Steiner Brothers fan, and once Rick was pushed in the background I just can not get into Scott as a singles wrestler.

 

Scott's new gimmick is a good one, I have to admit. Mick Foley's heel turn was great, but it was cut too short. His heel turn proved that he still can cut a great promo, but this storyline that he's in is dull. But I don't think that anyone can deny that Foley can still have a good match! Then again, I'm a big mark for Mick Foley, so that may make me a little biased!

[BHK1978]

Scott's new gimmick is a good one, I have to admit. Mick Foley's heel turn was great, but it was cut too short. His heel turn proved that he still can cut a great promo, but this storyline that he's in is dull. But I don't think that anyone can deny that Foley can still have a good match! Then again, I'm a big mark for Mick Foley, so that may make me a little biased!

 

Oh, don't get me wrong I think Mick is great but like you said the storyline he is in is very dull.

 

Did anybody catch the, "You can't wrestle!" chants that Rob Terry got? That had me laughing. All though at the end of the match, it looks like they might be turning him face. I really hope this does not happen, because the last thing we need is a Welsh version of Lex Luger.

[Wrestling Century]

Did anybody catch the, "You can't wrestle!" chants that Rob Terry got?

 

Finally the casual audience figured out why he was squashed in under a minute by Hernandez....with a shoulder block!

[Tag01]

Steiner's new gimmick is better than his usual bit, but his ring work still makes me want to punch myself in the face.

[Condors]

I had been liking impact more and more lately. This past week I was hopefull when it was going to be the Kevin Nash show. Honestly I was dissapointed with the show.

 

Steiner's pushups and the mud wrestling is not what i want from a wrestling show. Angle was doing commentary and Daniels makes a run in should have been a 4 way fight without Wolf getting pinned, I am not a fan of the distraction roll up pin endings anyways, someone is on the apron well that makes a roll up unstoppable. I know its all fake but I don't want it to look that fake.

 

I had not liked the Foley storyline until this week although i am not sure how its going to play out.

[ECW 2.0]

best impact ever any time lacy von erich and sky have a mud wrestling match is a classic.

[Wrestling Century]

Steiner's pushups and the mud wrestling is not what i want from a wrestling show.

 

Really? That's all I want from a wrestling show! Sure this week's show didn't have much in the "serious" wrestling department, but it sure was entertaining! But Condors, if you want serious wresting, allow me to recommend Puroresu or ROH. Because seriously, WWE and TNA is more entertainment than seriousness.

[TNAfan123]

Really? That's all I want from a wrestling show! Sure this week's show didn't have much in the "serious" wrestling department, but it sure was entertaining! But Condors, if you want serious wresting, allow me to recommend Puroresu or ROH. Because seriously, WWE and TNA is more entertainment than seriousness.

I completly agree, IMO TNA is doing pretty good at it right now

[BHK1978]

I had been liking impact more and more lately. This past week I was hopefull when it was going to be the Kevin Nash show. Honestly I was dissapointed with the show.

 

Steiner's pushups and the mud wrestling is not what i want from a wrestling show. Angle was doing commentary and Daniels makes a run in should have been a 4 way fight without Wolf getting pinned, I am not a fan of the distraction roll up pin endings anyways, someone is on the apron well that makes a roll up unstoppable. I know its all fake but I don't want it to look that fake.

 

I had not liked the Foley storyline until this week although i am not sure how its going to play out.

 

How could you not want to see Velvet Sky in a mud wrestling match?

[cappyboy]

Really? That's all I want from a wrestling show! Sure this week's show didn't have much in the "serious" wrestling department, but it sure was entertaining! But Condors, if you want serious wresting, allow me to recommend Puroresu or ROH. Because seriously, WWE and TNA is more entertainment than seriousness.

 

I don't know as it serious vs entertainment as such. It sounds to me like it's as much the who and the how. Which I can't really blame him for. Scott Steiner has been really good in the current gimmick of trying to hang on to the Main Event Mafia. And the pushups are an old school thing. So I probably wouldn't have quibbled about that so much myself. But Big Poppa Plump When You Cook Him isn't quite as a fun in general as he used to be. In the ring in particular, the guy has become dramatically played out. And I would imagine Condors is kinda like me. The personality stuff is probably most entertaining when it has the potential to lead to the ring in some manner. But as good as the Lashley/Steiner feud has been on the buildup side, the ring's not a place I want to see Steiner any more than I have to these days. So from that end, I can see the pushup segment missing something.

 

As for the mud wrestling match, here's the question. Why do we NEED to turn on TNA to see that? In my mind, we don't. That's why you have establishments like The Boom Boom Room and JB's Gallery of Girls. To go out into your town and see hot chicks bump and grind or roll around in slippery stuff. As hot as Lacey Von Erich and Velvet Sky may be, I want to see different stuff from them when they are on my TV screen. They want to stay over an extra day or two after Impact's been here so they can mud wrestle at JB's, I'm down with that. But on TV, I want to see something I wouldn't be able to otherwise. If it builds up to a more traditional type of match, I'll be forgiving. But mud wrestling and bikini contests on wrestling shows for their own sakes bore me. They just aren't special enough to be worth the time.

[Wrestling Century]

As long as the show was entertaining then it was worth my time IMO.

[tristram]

I don't know as it serious vs entertainment as such. It sounds to me like it's as much the who and the how. Which I can't really blame him for. Scott Steiner has been really good in the current gimmick of trying to hang on to the Main Event Mafia. And the pushups are an old school thing. So I probably wouldn't have quibbled about that so much myself. But Big Poppa Plump When You Cook Him isn't quite as a fun in general as he used to be. In the ring in particular, the guy has become dramatically played out. And I would imagine Condors is kinda like me. The personality stuff is probably most entertaining when it has the potential to lead to the ring in some manner. But as good as the Lashley/Steiner feud has been on the buildup side, the ring's not a place I want to see Steiner any more than I have to these days. So from that end, I can see the pushup segment missing something.

 

As for the mud wrestling match, here's the question. Why do we NEED to turn on TNA to see that? In my mind, we don't. That's why you have establishments like The Boom Boom Room and JB's Gallery of Girls. To go out into your town and see hot chicks bump and grind or roll around in slippery stuff. As hot as Lacey Von Erich and Velvet Sky may be, I want to see different stuff from them when they are on my TV screen. They want to stay over an extra day or two after Impact's been here so they can mud wrestle at JB's, I'm down with that. But on TV, I want to see something I wouldn't be able to otherwise. If it builds up to a more traditional type of match, I'll be forgiving. But mud wrestling and bikini contests on wrestling shows for their own sakes bore me. They just aren't special enough to be worth the time.

 

I think you may be missing the intent and the gimmick of the Beautiful People. What you're basically saying is akin to saying that you don't tune into wrestling to watch cheap comedy and you could easily do it watching HBO stand up... but that's half of what DX is built on.

 

Well rounded professional wrestling promotions are no longer merely get in the ring for 15 minutes, work a slow paced match with a decent finish, intermitted with three or four 'Enhancement Talent' v Upper Midcard matches, and then a ten minute end match with a controversial win or at least a controversial attempt at a win to keep a town hot and a feud relevant. The remote is all too easily accessible if you are getting the same old, same old. Marketing hot chicks is a major marketing tool to draw in the teenage male market, a very lucrative market.

 

The Beautiful People clearly are designed to say, we're better looking than you but they play it so that it highlights the others, like ODB, Taylor Wilde, Tara, Amazing Kong, who are clearly better workers than them by basically selling everything under the sun for them as they're just pretty girls.

[haloed]

I didn't care for the latest episode of Impact as much as the last few. It was a solid show and like mentioned somewhere I too liked the finish in the ME with Daniels making sure Wolfe wouldn't win the match.

[cappyboy]

I think you may be missing the intent and the gimmick of the Beautiful People. What you're basically saying is akin to saying that you don't tune into wrestling to watch cheap comedy and you could easily do it watching HBO stand up... but that's half of what DX is built on.

 

Hoo boy where to begin with this. Do I get on you for condesending (sic) to me about The Beautiful People? Do I start with pointing out that by using DX as your parallel you're trying to defend you point with a group that annoyed me even more? Or merely mention that I've never watched anything that was shown on HBO and that I have to take your word on that part.

 

I think I'll go with the accusation of missing the point of The Beautiful People. When did I ever say I didn't like the gimmick in general? Quite the opposite. I doubt I'd like the Knockout division anywhere near as much if there weren't any Beautiful People to represent what all the more competitively minded ladies find wrong with the wrestling scene. They are much needed counter-balance characters to keep people wanting the stories grounded in the ring.

 

Well rounded professional wrestling promotions are no longer merely get in the ring for 15 minutes, work a slow paced match with a decent finish, intermitted with three or four 'Enhancement Talent' v Upper Midcard matches, and then a ten minute end match with a controversial win or at least a controversial attempt at a win to keep a town hot and a feud relevant.

 

And it's never been quite what you describe in my lifetime. In the 60's and 70's sure. But in the 80's (the era my memory actually starts at) that recipe you're assuming I bow down at the altar of was crumbling. Sure you still had the jobber squashes until the Monday Night Wars started. But all that slow paced stuff is bunk. Anyone who paints the 80's as slow-paced as prior decades conveniently glosses over The Rock & Roll Express. And The Fantastics. Michaels and Jannetty as the MIDNGHT Rockers and so many other speedballs I could never properly credit them all. Sure you had the hosses and some technicians at the top. But to act like that's all there was is like dismissing the international midcard of WCW in the mid 90's or the X division in TNA because they weren't/aren't going for marquee belts either.

 

The remote is all too easily accessible if you are getting the same old, same old. Marketing hot chicks is a major marketing tool to draw in the teenage male market, a very lucrative market.

 

And that's always been the case. If you think I have an issue with that, you're just hearing the typical IWC blinders and not hearing what I'm saying. I have NO PROBLEM with bikini contests and the like AS LONG as they mean something. I know the main reason is to appeal to the teenage male market you think you're trying to educate me to. But like I said, if that's all it does, then it becomes the same old, same old you're talking about. Something that's gettable darn near anywhere.

 

You seem to think I'm responding like some prude who thinks the mud wrestling has no place on TV. Far from it. I'm more than willing to go along as long as there's an entertaining payoff. But if I can get the same bikini contest at the club across town, why should I stay home and watch wrestling chicks do it? Now if that same mud wrestling match can tittilate the teen boys AND give the wallowers a chance to mock their equally attractive (to their "chagrin") faces, all the better. Have the faces be offended by the mocking and challenge the wallowers to a more traditional match in response, you have gold. Assuming everybody's performed their role properly of course.

 

You're talking to me about a balanced show? You're preaching to the choir. I'm the guy who was accused of being of a workrate junkie in 2000 but yet marked hard for Ernest Miller. I'm the guy who's always defended That 70's Guy gimmick of Mike Awesome's because he played it like he lived it. I'm the guy who's always grumbled on here about things that kept me FROM absorbing myself in the story world and believing in the balance of the illusion. Chill out. Relax. Understand this isn't a zero/sum game that I'm preaching here. I'm not looking for every show every company puts on be be puro/ROH serious. All I'm looking for is for every company's best reasons for me to keep watching them.

[lazorbeak]

Cappy seriously, lighten up. Nobody is making "accusations" towards you. (And why did you spell condescending incorrectly and add a [sic]? Generally you should only use those if you are quoting something or using archaic language.) I appreciate the image that somehow someone's suggesting you 'bow to the altar' of 1970's and 80's style 'wrasslin,' but again, nobody is actually doing that.

 

Also I guess I could understand your point about bikini contests or whatever being same old, same old if they took place every week, or if they were anything other than a rarely used novelty. I have to admit I don't love segments that go nowhere, but the fact is sometimes they're necessary; wrestling is a variety show and that means sometimes you get comedy segments or "sex sells" segments that don't directly lead into a PPV match. At least this stuff has some on-screen explanation. But your earlier point that you can see the same sort of stuff anywhere seems to deliberately ignore tristram's point: wrestling does a 2nd rate job of lots of things.

 

Also no one is attacking your moral standards or calling you a prude.

[cappyboy]

Cappy seriously, lighten up. Nobody is making "accusations" towards you.

 

I don't know, man. He was suggesting I didn't get one of the division's key gimmicks, felt he had to explain the place of bikini contests in wrestling and was under-estimating an era I'll admit I can be a little HYPER-protective of sometimes. And it was all seemingly coming of nowhere. If he'll chill a little and show a little more tact, I shouldn't have a problem lightening up.

 

(And why did you spell condescending incorrectly and add a [sic]? Generally you should only use those if you are quoting something or using archaic language.) I appreciate the image that somehow someone's suggesting you 'bow to the altar' of 1970's and 80's style 'wrasslin,' but again, nobody is actually doing that.

 

I guess we were taught [sic] differently then. When I learned it, it was essentially mistake insurance. Sort of "I know I'm spelling this wrong. But I can't remember the right spelling and am not comfortable disrupting my flow to find it."

 

Also I guess I could understand your point about bikini contests or whatever being same old, same old if they took place every week, or if they were anything other than a rarely used novelty. I have to admit I don't love segments that go nowhere, but the fact is sometimes they're necessary; wrestling is a variety show and that means sometimes you get comedy segments or "sex sells" segments that don't directly lead into a PPV match. At least this stuff has some on-screen explanation. But your earlier point that you can see the same sort of stuff anywhere seems to deliberately ignore tristram's point: wrestling does a 2nd rate job of lots of things.

 

Fair enough I guess. At least they are as frustratingly common as they were ten years ago.

 

But you know, if I may try to make his case for him and do it better, what he was saying should really boil down to two points.

 

1) it isn't all about me.

 

I'll admit I can tunnel vision into my own entertainment sometimes because it's what I can attest to best and it's what's most likely to be determine whether my screen's staying on it or not.

 

2) For that teenage target audience he was citing, it is something new and different. If they have any kind of involved parents, they probably aren't allowed to watch most shows that would have highly sexualized content. Er go the bikini contest on the wrestling show is rather an end around to that. And of course, they aren't allowed in the Boom Boom Rooms and Galleries of Girls I as a long time adult can visit to see that stuff. So while I may have the options, they don't and I should have considered that.

 

Those approaches, the second one especially, would have kept me much more on his side than presuming he had to explain the realities of programming to me.

 

Also no one is attacking your moral standards or calling you a prude.

 

Well just as you were saying I seemed to be deliberately ignoring his point about wrestling being master of none, he seemed to be deliberately ignoring the part where I said where I can forgive racy segments I can see elsewhere if they serve a greater storyline purpose. So what was I supposed to think?

 

I understand you're talking to talk me down because you feel I'm over-reacting. But the way I see it, he was over-reacting in his own right. He was jumping to conclusions that weren't there. And whether he meant to or not, he came off as incredibly condescending and arrogant in expressing the gulf of understanding he perceived. Perceived or actual, I've never suffered arrogance that well.

 

But, Lazorbeak, to end things on a light note if I may. How many times is it now that you've posted to try and talk me down after I've over-reacted to another guy's over-reaction? I see a pattern starting to develop here in that regard.

[PhenomenalPat]

As long as the show was entertaining then it was worth my time IMO.

 

Agreed! Honestly I hated this episode at first...then I watched it a second time, through my IWC "armchair" booker mentality aside, and enjoyed it for what it was. I honestly wouldn't want Impact! to be like this past episode every week, but an occasional goofy/fun episode like this is ok...maybe even good to have. I just still wished Styles and Wolfe got 10-15 minutes instead of 5, but the mud wrestling match was tremendous! If they started using Tara or Alissa Flash in matches like that it would disappoint me. Simply because they are so talented in the ring, wrestling in wrestling matches. But the Beautiful People are perfect in sex appeal and eye candy type matches...not only from a viewing standpoint (in that they are very enjoyable to look at) but also from a gimmick standpoint. I does fit the gimmick.

[tristram]

Hoo boy where to begin with this. Do I get on you for condesending (sic) to me about The Beautiful People? Do I start with pointing out that by using DX as your parallel you're trying to defend you point with a group that annoyed me even more? Or merely mention that I've never watched anything that was shown on HBO and that I have to take your word on that part.

 

I think I'll go with the accusation of missing the point of The Beautiful People. When did I ever say I didn't like the gimmick in general? Quite the opposite. I doubt I'd like the Knockout division anywhere near as much if there weren't any Beautiful People to represent what all the more competitively minded ladies find wrong with the wrestling scene. They are much needed counter-balance characters to keep people wanting the stories grounded in the ring.

 

 

 

And it's never been quite what you describe in my lifetime. In the 60's and 70's sure. But in the 80's (the era my memory actually starts at) that recipe you're assuming I bow down at the altar of was crumbling. Sure you still had the jobber squashes until the Monday Night Wars started. But all that slow paced stuff is bunk. Anyone who paints the 80's as slow-paced as prior decades conveniently glosses over The Rock & Roll Express. And The Fantastics. Michaels and Jannetty as the MIDNGHT Rockers and so many other speedballs I could never properly credit them all. Sure you had the hosses and some technicians at the top. But to act like that's all there was is like dismissing the international midcard of WCW in the mid 90's or the X division in TNA because they weren't/aren't going for marquee belts either.

 

 

 

And that's always been the case. If you think I have an issue with that, you're just hearing the typical IWC blinders and not hearing what I'm saying. I have NO PROBLEM with bikini contests and the like AS LONG as they mean something. I know the main reason is to appeal to the teenage male market you think you're trying to educate me to. But like I said, if that's all it does, then it becomes the same old, same old you're talking about. Something that's gettable darn near anywhere.

 

You seem to think I'm responding like some prude who thinks the mud wrestling has no place on TV. Far from it. I'm more than willing to go along as long as there's an entertaining payoff. But if I can get the same bikini contest at the club across town, why should I stay home and watch wrestling chicks do it? Now if that same mud wrestling match can tittilate the teen boys AND give the wallowers a chance to mock their equally attractive (to their "chagrin") faces, all the better. Have the faces be offended by the mocking and challenge the wallowers to a more traditional match in response, you have gold. Assuming everybody's performed their role properly of course.

 

You're talking to me about a balanced show? You're preaching to the choir. I'm the guy who was accused of being of a workrate junkie in 2000 but yet marked hard for Ernest Miller. I'm the guy who's always defended That 70's Guy gimmick of Mike Awesome's because he played it like he lived it. I'm the guy who's always grumbled on here about things that kept me FROM absorbing myself in the story world and believing in the balance of the illusion. Chill out. Relax. Understand this isn't a zero/sum game that I'm preaching here. I'm not looking for every show every company puts on be be puro/ROH serious. All I'm looking for is for every company's best reasons for me to keep watching them.

 

lol - dude, seriously. You said it all yourself in those words I just bolded. You have entirely read way too much into it than you ought to have, if I'm not mistaken, this is a TNA discussion, not a pick a forum poster's opinion apart. And that's what I thought was going on, a basic discussion. In respect to "You're preaching to the choir. I'm the guy who was accused of being of a workrate junkie in 2000 but yet marked hard for Ernest Miller. I'm the guy who's always defended That 70's Guy gimmick of Mike Awesome's because he played it like he lived it.", no disrespect intended, that's nice and all, but I really don't try to, nor do I really care to, try and make a grasp as to what your take on things are. Nor do I intend to preach to you. Again, I, like the other posters, am merely remarking on TNA.

 

Did I accuse you of being a workrate mark somewhere? Did I accuse you of criticising Mike Awesome somewhere? I was merely replying to your post on TNA, trying to highlight why those segments are there. Again, teenage male audience=lucrative market, and the mere fascination with beautiful women sells products including PPVs.

 

Fair enough I guess. At least they are as frustratingly common as they were ten years ago.

 

But you know, if I may try to make his case for him and do it better, what he was saying should really boil down to two points.

 

1) it isn't all about me.

 

I'll admit I can tunnel vision into my own entertainment sometimes because it's what I can attest to best and it's what's most likely to be determine whether my screen's staying on it or not.

 

2) For that teenage target audience he was citing, it is something new and different. If they have any kind of involved parents, they probably aren't allowed to watch most shows that would have highly sexualized content. Er go the bikini contest on the wrestling show is rather an end around to that. And of course, they aren't allowed in the Boom Boom Rooms and Galleries of Girls I as a long time adult can visit to see that stuff. So while I may have the options, they don't and I should have considered that.

 

Those approaches, the second one especially, would have kept me much more on his side than presuming he had to explain the realities of programming to me.

 

You're trying to make my own case better lol. Thanks, I appreciate it. So you can see my point, but have taken it, somehow, personally? I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree - you are wanting to misread something that is clearly not intended, so lets let the other folks talk TNA as they, and I, had intended.

[Condors]

I enjoy more pure feds but i like entertainment also. The trouble is i don't tune into TNA for tna. There are better mediums for that. I am also on the wrong side of 40 and maybe I see the show through a parents eyes. Getting the kids watching espcially with Hulk coming could mean long term loyal fans.

Mick Foley writes kids books. I loved the orginal ECW (even when it was eastern championship wrestling). I knew what i was getting into when i went to a show. I think TNA needs to focus on what they want. I hear them say we have the best wrestling/wrestlers in the world. They usually have some good matches and sometimes a good storyline which is great. Before i really only had issues with ODB (again not myself as a parent) but if this is their new direction then I think they are missing a chance to bring in young loyal fans that could get with the underdog. Increasing their fan base should be their #1 goal and if they think they can outdo WWE by being WWE lite well they will come up short imho. If they really want to be #1 they need to play on being different - better wrestling , family friendly could be one way to go.

[Tag01]

This argument is awesome. One of you guys will certainly win the internet.

[lazorbeak]

I guess we were taught [sic] differently then. When I learned it, it was essentially mistake insurance. Sort of "I know I'm spelling this wrong. But I can't remember the right spelling and am not comfortable disrupting my flow to find it."

 

If that's what you were taught, I don't know what to tell you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic.

 

In case you don't believe wiki, the Columbia guide to American English says: "Americans pronounce this Latin word meaning 'thus' ... to disassociate themselves from errors in a text they're quoting." Still better than your Spanish.

 

But, Lazorbeak, to end things on a light note if I may. How many times is it now that you've posted to try and talk me down after I've over-reacted to another guy's over-reaction? I see a pattern starting to develop here in that regard.

 

I do what I can.

[BHK1978]

How did a talk about the Beautiful People turn into a discussion about languages?

[Wrestling Century]

Now, allow me to change the subject. Who else thinks that Chris Daniels deserves a run with the TNA World Title?

[tristram]

I'm not sure about Daniels. I buy him as a very effective wrestler from top to bottom of the card, but I'm just not sure about the top guy. I can't describe what it is, but I don't know if he quite... has the look? Maybe that's it? I can buy him as a transitional champ, but I don't know if he's... the guy for me. I really think the go-to guy for them is aside from Angle is Samoa Joe, he has "it".

 

What about the lower midcarders, particularly the MCMG, Consequences Creed and Jay Lethal? To me, I see stars in them. The question is which one is ready to rise, and then how to get them up. For some reason, I love Lethal and Creed. Great talents in my eyes.