Official NFL Discussion Thread

[Comradebot]

Also, I know how it feels to hate the Steelers. Always a bitter rivalry between them and the Oilers way back in the day, it felt like.

 

Can't say I hate them these days, though, as I respect the talent on their team, not to mention Mike Tomlin seems like an excellent coach. As for Big Ben, well... yeah, even if he didn't actually break any laws, he's still a bit of a douchebag. He's the anti-Kuhn, if you will.

[moon_lit_tears]

Also, I know how it feels to hate the Steelers. Always a bitter rivalry between them and the Oilers way back in the day, it felt like.

 

Can't say I hate them these days, though, as I respect the talent on their team, not to mention Mike Tomlin seems like an excellent coach. As for Big Ben, well... yeah, even if he didn't actually break any laws, he's still a bit of a douchebag. He's the anti-Kuhn, if you will.

 

He was never charged, doesn't mean he didn't do it.

 

Steelers are a hometown rival here. Not that I like the Ravens, but they are still hometown.

[BHK1978]

As long as the Patriots, Eagles, or Cowboys are not in the Super Bowl I am happy. And seeing how none of them are, well I am happy.

 

I really have no favorite in the SB. I guess if someone were to put a gun to my head (which I really hope does not happen) and forces me to choose I would go with the team of Bart Starr.

 

Note I would add the other NFC East team in there but they haven't been good since Doug Willams was the QB.

[GruntMark]

They won a superbowl after that with Mark Rypien.

[MattitudeV2]

Praying for a Packers W, hoping Clay,Hawk and Woodson knock Big Ben all around....

[BHK1978]

They won a superbowl after that with Mark Rypien.

 

Yeah but that was against the Bills so that does not count.

[jwt13]

As long as the Patriots, Eagles, or Cowboys are not in the Super Bowl I am happy. And seeing how none of them are, well I am happy.

 

I really have no favorite in the SB. I guess if someone were to put a gun to my head (which I really hope does not happen) and forces me to choose I would go with the team of Bart Starr.

 

Note I would add the other NFC East team in there but they haven't been good since Doug Willams was the QB.

 

Well see what Newton can do for us when we draft him

[GatorBait19]

why does everyone think Cam Newton will be good a QB in the pro's?

 

When I look at Cam I see a very good athlete who will probably get picked in the first round because of all the hype. I like Cam and wish him well, but how many times have we listen to the hype from Mel Kiper and McShay.

 

My thing is how many times have we seen the best athlete on a college field be just another athlete on the pro field. Cam reminds me of VY 2.0 just not as good of a passer.

[jbergey_2005]

I dont know that everyone does think he will be good in the pros. A lot of people have him projected as a 2nd round pick.

 

Personally, I think hes more like Tebow than he is Vince Young. Cam has a lot of mechanical flaws and his arm is extremely inaccurate at this point.

[PeterHilton]

I think there's a TON of doubt about Newton. If Andrew Luck had come out and Jake Locker hadan't imnploded, Cam probably wait til the 2nd round to get drafted.

 

As it is, he's a huge project in the same way Tebow was. And I don't see a coach like Shanahan who wants to 'win now' drafting him.

[GruntMark]

I dont really like Newton either. This years QB class completely fails to blow me away in fact.

[BHK1978]

Good Super Bowl, now I hope we get to see a good old fashion lockout for the 2011 season.

[GatorBait19]

So Von Miller is another player who is filing a suit against the NFL............................................................................................................................

 

Has anyone told him he is the only player to file that hasn't even had a contract, team, or touched and NFL football field? I can understand it because it's his future, but he is kind of screwed no matter what. From what I keep hearing the vets agree there needs to be a rookie scale (mainly because it means more money to be spent on vets).

 

But, when you haven't even been drafted I just feel that you need to leave this to the big boys.

[GatorBait19]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6257263

 

 

LMAO, what happens when rich fight the rich who sue the rich.

[angeldelayette]

In a random moment, I just counted today and, in total, I have 133 video tapes of Carolina Panthers football games ranging all the way back to the year 2000.

[PoisonedSuperman]

Relive the Chris Weinke years my friend!!

[GatorBait19]

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/29/291559/felony-arrest-warrants-issued-for-bucs-aqib-talib-/sports-bucs/

 

 

This is funny to me for one reason. When John Gruden and Bruce Allen were in charge they did horrible in drafting people. Only two players were considered go draft picks. One being Talib and the other Tanard Jackson. Funny Thing is Tanard and Talib are very talented and many consider them the best at their positions within the division. Problem is Tanard was suspended for drug use and Talib's criminal history has only gotten worse in the past couple years.

 

Crappy part is everyone wanted Michael Jenkins from USF who went a couple picks later to Cowboys. Jenkins is a pro-bowler (Talib would have been one as well this year if it weren't for the season ending injury) and is a lot more reliable.

 

Also it sucks because no one knows what is going on with Jackson and with Talib out there goes the best two player in our secondary.

[Remianen]

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/29/291559/felony-arrest-warrants-issued-for-bucs-aqib-talib-/sports-bucs/

 

 

This is funny to me for one reason. When John Gruden and Bruce Allen were in charge they did horrible in drafting people. Only two players were considered go draft picks. One being Talib and the other Tanard Jackson. Funny Thing is Tanard and Talib are very talented and many consider them the best at their positions within the division. Problem is Tanard was suspended for drug use and Talib's criminal history has only gotten worse in the past couple years.

 

Crappy part is everyone wanted Michael Jenkins from USF who went a couple picks later to Cowboys. Jenkins is a pro-bowler (Talib would have been one as well this year if it weren't for the season ending injury) and is a lot more reliable.

 

Also it sucks because no one knows what is going on with Jackson and with Talib out there goes the best two player in our secondary.

 

No offense but Tampa's been horrible at drafting and/or developing through the draft. Talib was a horrible pick, talent notwithstanding. What's worse, they've done nothing to hedge their bets so they have like no one behind him that can possibly take over while he sits out half the season (Goodell's going to throw the book at him due to his past). On the field, they have some players with upside and obvious talent. But the NFL isn't about on the field anymore (and hasn't been since Tagliabue retired). Mike Williams was a revelation as was Blount but Blount has issues of his own so can't be totally relied upon.

 

I hope the team continues to take on the personality of their coach though (I hope the same for the Niners as well). But I hope this teaches teams a valuable lesson (a leopard does not change its spots). Spend more money uncovering the Sam Shields of the world and save having to pay some overhyped "specimen" to sit on his ass getting his head on straight (or trying to beat a felony beef).

 

But um, the Gruden/Allen regime couldn't have been that bad. I mean, you did get a trophy of some sort from it (only one in franchise history, at that). And you got it without a franchise player at QB (which flies in the face of all the pundits who claim you have to have one. I'm guessing Tampa and Baltimore have faded from memory).

[GatorBait19]

For someone who is criticizing a team for drafting, you make me laugh. Your favorite team is the Bronco’s and they haven’t drafted well. Outside of the 06 draft with 4 players and Ryan Clady you guys have been the horrible. In fact three of those 4 players aren’t even with the team anymore because you guys slipped and hired McDaniel instead of Morris (thank you).

 

The Bucs have drafted Davin Joseph, Tanard Jackson, Talib, Josh Freeman, E.J Biggers, Sammie Stroughter, Roy Miller, Mike Williams, and Cody Grimm who (outside of Tanard) played big roles this year in a 10 win season.

 

Here is a great stat for you for EJ Biggers that you can start using when you track plays on Sunday’s

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/19499/looking-at-unsung-nfc-south-cornerbacks

 

The Bucs have developed talent a heck of a lot better than the Broncos have and have made better moves overall than them.

 

If everyone gave up on every head case in the NFL or sports for that matter we wouldn’t have names like Randy Moss, Michael Irvin, Dennis Rodman, Dion Sanders, Brandon Marshall, Rey Lewis, LT, etc. A good portion of the players in the NFL have come from a rough path and sometimes that crap just stays them. Not everyone will be Tim Tebow like and make the NFL look good 24/7.

 

Also you are right, Gruden got the Bucs a title (without Allen) he won it with Derrick Brooks, Simon Rice, Warren Sapp, Keyshawn Johnson, Ronde Barber, John Lynch and Monte Kiffin. They were all Dungey’s people and that is not lost of Tampa fans. Gruden however managed to cut Sapp, Lynch before they should have been, signed horrible vets to massive contracts, and his only pro-bowler he drafted was Joseph, even though Talib would have more than like a pro-bowler this year and won DB of the year.

 

Talib was only a bad pick because of his personal problems. Again though, if every person who had legal troubles was passed on and not allowed to play in the NFL or other sports we wouldn’t know a lot of famous names.

Also, Franchise QB’s are not a necessary part of a Super bowl team. Does it help…… Duh, but teams like Tom Brady’s first, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, are just a few who weren’t or at the time weren’t considered Franchise QB’s.

[Remianen]

For someone who is criticizing a team for drafting, you make me laugh. Your favorite team is the Bronco’s and they haven’t drafted well. Outside of the 06 draft with 4 players and Ryan Clady you guys have been the horrible. In fact three of those 4 players aren’t even with the team anymore because you guys slipped and hired McDaniel instead of Morris (thank you).

 

You forget, the Broncos drafted the dude currently taking snaps in Chicago. They also uncovered the gem that was traded to Miami (a fourth round pick traded for two second rounders). But I honestly don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm saying my team is better than the Bucs at it. See, I'm a fan that can be honest about their team instead of trying to slough it off or rationalize. Yes, the Broncos have suffered due to the 'benevolent dictatorship' style of management they've used for the last 15 years. It took several years (oh and, um, two Lombardi trophies) for the warts to become visible but that's always the case. You mortgage the future for the present and when the future becomes the present, you're stuck on stupid. We got lucky though and drafted a mobile beast to play the most important (and highest paid) position on the O-line. So that's one position that doesn't need to be filled for 10 years.

 

The Bucs have drafted Davin Joseph, Tanard Jackson, Talib, Josh Freeman, E.J Biggers, Sammie Stroughter, Roy Miller, Mike Williams, and Cody Grimm who (outside of Tanard) played big roles this year in a 10 win season.

 

So, one good season and you're willing to anoint Mark Dominik as the next Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi or Bill Polian (or Ted Thompson)?

 

The Bucs have developed talent a heck of a lot better than the Broncos have and have made better moves overall than them.

 

I take it this is a sore spot for you. Nowhere did I say or imply that my team has done any better. Although, producing a bonafide, legit #1 receiver from a fourth round selection is pretty impressive (people spend first rounders hoping/wishing they can do that - ask the Lions ).

 

If everyone gave up on every head case in the NFL or sports for that matter we wouldn’t have names like Randy Moss, Michael Irvin, Dennis Rodman, Dion Sanders, Brandon Marshall, Rey Lewis, LT, etc. A good portion of the players in the NFL have come from a rough path and sometimes that crap just stays them. Not everyone will be Tim Tebow like and make the NFL look good 24/7.

 

False. Deion Sanders had NOTHING on him coming out of college except his ego. Difference is, he could easily back up his swagger on the field (and didn't get arrested off the field). I'd rather have an egotistical game changer who does nothing untoward off the field rather than someone constantly dodging beefs of various kinds (getting into a fight at the Rookie Symposium? How bright is this guy?). By all accounts, Deion was a model teammate and even helped develop Larry Brown in Dallas while he was there. You're naming off people who were already stars before they got into trouble. Aqib Talib has done NOTHING of note yet. Stars earn benefit of doubt simply by being stars. Moss slipped in the draft due to his reported attitude issues. Heck, you should be familiar with that phenomenon considering the fact that that's how the Bucs got Warren Sapp (remember the positive test for weed?). LT's problems started AFTER he redefined the linebacker position. Again, degrees. You can't compare any of those people you named with Talib since they had all proven themselves top performers in the league at their respective positions (even Rodman was a defensive stopper and a rebound machine for a very successful, star studded Detroit franchise).

 

In my view, Talib was a bad pick because, despite his talent level, he didn't make the mental switch to being a professional. From the fight at the Symposium, to the fight with Donald Penn (and hitting another teammate in the head with his helmet) to all the various beefs he's accrued since, he's proven himself to be less than ideal for the #20 pick of the first round. It isn't JUST about talent anymore and hasn't been for several years. Besides, when you think of the opportunity cost (passing on CJ, DeSean Jackson, Jenkins, Keller, Dan Connor, Jermichael Finley, Jordy, etc), it makes it seem a bit worse.

 

But whatever. Keep tossing the mist of "but your team hasn't done better!" when someone calls your team on spending a high pick (and the money that comes with it) on someone seemingly destined to turn out just like his mama (a convicted felon). It's a good thing corners don't get endorsement deals or he'd have to deal with being dropped by... Oh wait, the "head case" Deion got a ridiculous deal with Pepsi while on the Cowboys. Hmm. Now why would a major corporation invest in a "head case", making him the center of their 'Pepsi Generation' spots? Maybe because he wasn't a....nah, that can't be possible!

[GatorBait19]

You forget, the Broncos drafted the dude currently taking snaps in Chicago. They also uncovered the gem that was traded to Miami (a fourth round pick traded for two second rounders). But I honestly don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm saying my team is better than the Bucs at it. See, I'm a fan that can be honest about their team instead of trying to slough it off or rationalize. Yes, the Broncos have suffered due to the 'benevolent dictatorship' style of management they've used for the last 15 years. It took several years (oh and, um, two Lombardi trophies) for the warts to become visible but that's always the case. You mortgage the future for the present and when the future becomes the present, you're stuck on stupid. We got lucky though and drafted a mobile beast to play the most important (and highest paid) position on the O-line. So that's one position that doesn't need to be filled for 10 years.

 

Again as you said I am just point out your team is horrible at drafting as well. Marshall has been a nut case, Jay Cutler cried, then sucked, got good again, then cried when he got hurt. Clady was the only good player you guys drafted that is still with the team. I believe I also said the Bucs were bad at drafting with Gruden, in fact I said we only had three good picks. This best part is if you go back to where I posted the story I said

 

"Crappy part is everyone wanted Michael Jenkins from USF who went a couple picks later to Cowboys. Jenkins is a pro-bowler (Talib would have been one as well this year if it weren't for the season ending injury) and is a lot more reliable."

 

I never disagreed that Talib was a bad pick. You just went on to blast the team for something that wasn't warrented. I guess it's another "Me King Remi! My crap smells like Roses and I can chart plays for Pro, College, High School, Pop Warner, and even lingerie football... Play TEW, help get the Nets to Brooklyn, travel the world and do a bunch of other crap. bull

 

 

 

 

So, one good season and you're willing to anoint Mark Dominik as the next Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi or Bill Polian (or Ted Thompson)?

 

Again, just pointing out that Mark Dominik has been drafting well. Biggest issues with this post is you named some legends no doubt, but you also forgot that these legends had great coaching staff's pushing these players to be better.

 

 

I take it this is a sore spot for you. Nowhere did I say or imply that my team has done any better. Although, producing a bonafide, legit #1 receiver from a fourth round selection is pretty impressive (people spend first rounders hoping/wishing they can do that - ask the Lions ).

 

I think I hit a sore spot honestly, this is now the second time in this post you have quoted that your team hasn't done better than my team.

 

 

 

False. Deion Sanders had NOTHING on him coming out of college except his ego. Difference is, he could easily back up his swagger on the field (and didn't get arrested off the field). I'd rather have an egotistical game changer who does nothing untoward off the field rather than someone constantly dodging beefs of various kinds (getting into a fight at the Rookie Symposium? How bright is this guy?). By all accounts, Deion was a model teammate and even helped develop Larry Brown in Dallas while he was there. You're naming off people who were already stars before they got into trouble. Aqib Talib has done NOTHING of note yet. Stars earn benefit of doubt simply by being stars. Moss slipped in the draft due to his reported attitude issues. Heck, you should be familiar with that phenomenon considering the fact that that's how the Bucs got Warren Sapp (remember the positive test for weed?). LT's problems started AFTER he redefined the linebacker position. Again, degrees. You can't compare any of those people you named with Talib since they had all proven themselves top performers in the league at their respective positions (even Rodman was a defensive stopper and a rebound machine for a very successful, star studded Detroit franchise).

 

Good points, seriously you did you homework.... So point here is it's not okay to have issues coming out of college, but once you have made it, it's all good. Well good thing for Talib he won DB of the year this year before his first felony charge so I guess he made it before he became a harden criminal. Shoot hopefully he doesn't start a dog fighting league or run a female officer over with his big SUV, be a suspect in a kids death in ATL during a superbowl weekened, do blow of some hookers belly (or date someone underage). Oh and on Rodman, the guy was a nut case before he even hit college.

 

Also Moss was arrested before he even went to college. then he was busted for the pot while serving the 30 days of jail in a work-release program. He attended three different colleges before his red-shirt Freshman year began.

 

In my view, Talib was a bad pick because, despite his talent level, he didn't make the mental switch to being a professional. From the fight at the Symposium, to the fight with Donald Penn (and hitting another teammate in the head with his helmet) to all the various beefs he's accrued since, he's proven himself to be less than ideal for the #20 pick of the first round. It isn't JUST about talent anymore and hasn't been for several years. Besides, when you think of the opportunity cost (passing on CJ, DeSean Jackson, Jenkins, Keller, Dan Connor, Jermichael Finley, Jordy, etc), it makes it seem a bit worse.

 

Again you are pointing out something I never disagreed with, I would have much rathered had Jenkins, he knew the Bucs, the stadium and the fans. You can't honestly say either that Jordy or Dan Connor were better picks and the Bucs passed on them since each were taken in the 2nd round

 

But whatever. Keep tossing the mist of "but your team hasn't done better!" when someone calls your team on spending a high pick (and the money that comes with it) on someone seemingly destined to turn out just like his mama (a convicted felon). It's a good thing corners don't get endorsement deals or he'd have to deal with being dropped by... Oh wait, the "head case" Deion got a ridiculous deal with Pepsi while on the Cowboys. Hmm. Now why would a major corporation invest in a "head case", making him the center of their 'Pepsi Generation' spots? Maybe because he wasn't a....nah, that can't be possible!

 

Funny part is I am the one who came with your team is bad to, then you reacted with a pretty dull arguement about one LT who you wont have to draft for 10 years and two players who are no longer with your team.

 

Edit: Also if Mark each year as a GM drafts 3 to 4 players that are going to contribute to a winning team like this year then I would say he is doing a pretty good job

[GatorBait19]

So I know people have been going on about this for weeks, but I think the worse thing the Panthers could do in this years draft is draft Cam 1st Overall. I think if they were smart they would try to trade down and get someone else. This years QB class is amazing and you have a bunch of QB's that can truly start in the NFL. I don't know what to think of Cam he impresses me at times and then kills me at times. I still think he will be the next Reggie Bush (someone is going to come out and say they paid him and he knew it). Also Carolina has a great run game and are starting to rebuild their WR depth. I think Ryan Mallet could do really well there.

 

Also when did a college player not knowing about what the school and it's father were doing still not make him involved like the NCAA said Cam wasn't. Was it just because he was so popular?

[Imarevenant]

So I know people have been going on about this for weeks, but I think the worse thing the Panthers could do in this years draft is draft Cam 1st Overall. I think if they were smart they would try to trade down and get someone else. This years QB class is amazing and you have a bunch of QB's that can truly start in the NFL. I don't know what to think of Cam he impresses me at times and then kills me at times. I still think he will be the next Reggie Bush (someone is going to come out and say they paid him and he knew it). Also Carolina has a great run game and are starting to rebuild their WR depth. I think Ryan Mallet could do really well there.

 

Also when did a college player not knowing about what the school and it's father were doing still not make him involved like the NCAA said Cam wasn't. Was it just because he was so popular?

 

I think the worry for Carolina is that they are going to look within their division and see Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Josh Freeman and feel pressured in getting that franchise QB to compete with these guys.

 

Unlike you I think this years QB class is pretty poor. I don't like Mallet at all, just don't think he makes good decisions with the football and I have no faith in Gabbert and like Cam even less. My favorite QB prospect is Colin Kaepernick actually, and If I were Carolina or Buffalo I'd wait until round 2 and hope that Kaepernick or Andrew Dalton fell to the 2nd round (Kaepernick is probably a given for round 2 but I've seen a bit of love for Dalton so who knows).

[GatorBait19]

I think the worry for Carolina is that they are going to look within their division and see Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Josh Freeman and feel pressured in getting that franchise QB to compete with these guys.

 

Unlike you I think this years QB class is pretty poor. I don't like Mallet at all, just don't think he makes good decisions with the football and I have no faith in Gabbert and like Cam even less. My favorite QB prospect is Colin Kaepernick actually, and If I were Carolina or Buffalo I'd wait until round 2 and hope that Kaepernick or Andrew Dalton fell to the 2nd round (Kaepernick is probably a given for round 2 but I've seen a bit of love for Dalton so who knows).

 

I really do think this could be a great QB class. I don't think it's going to put the level out that the past two did with Bradford, McCoy, Tebow, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman. i see this one putting out 6 solid starters/backups. To me Ryan Mallet is my favorite QB, I saw him in action and even though he makes mistakes he extremely intelligent. Cam scares me because they simplified the offense for him at Auburn and I understand he was only there for a year, but to simplify and offense as much as they did and how lost he looked at times with Jon Gruden amazed me.

 

Also I like Jake Locker as the 2nd QB in the class. I don't know much about Blaine, but Chase McDaniels had a great career at Mizz and he will probably never be nothing more than a backup and his biggest knock I believe was his size. I know Blaine is taller, but what I did see from him didn't impress me much. Plus I hate three year QB's I don't think they go into the game as prepared. I know there are QB's out there with only 3 years that were successful, but I know the top 4 QB's in the league now (Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers) and there have been a crap load of failed 4 year starters as well. Again though the failed QB's with 3 years David Carr I believe left after his Soph. redshirt year, Russell, Tim Couch, Akili Smith (he reminds me of what Cam Newton might become, he was actually a 4 year college player, but he only started 11 career games in the NCAA)

[juggaloninjalee]

I think my Detroit Lions will draft Prince Amukamara. If he is off the clock then Da'Quan Bowers may be the pick. I'd rather have Bowers personally. If only the Lions could somehow magically get Patrick Peterson though I would be extremely happy.

 

To me the Lions offense should be better just by Stafford being healthy. So I say draft defense. There isn't a linebacker that would be worth the 14th pick so I say get an elite pass rusher or great corner. If that isn't there you trade down to get more picks and hope you get a good linebacker and a good corner.

 

That's how I would treat the draft from the Lions spot.