Official NFL Discussion Thread

[crownsy]

My random thoughts on last night's crazy game:

 

1. John Fox should be being hammered in the media today for the kneel down at the end of regulation, but somehow the narrative from the bronco's apologists is "well, you don't want to take any risks!"

 

you have peyton manning, 31 seconds and 2 timeouts. That's easily 5-6 plays. maybe 8 if you get plays at the sidelines. All you need is a FG to win it, amazingly cowardly play by the bronco's right there.

 

My GF turned to me as they did that and said " I cannot believe they just gave up right there. I hope the ravens win now, just because that was such a Bleep move. You have to try to win the game there!" and I could not disagree.

 

2. Listen, I fully acknowledge that Peyton is one of the top 10 all time QB's, but man, he is brett farve esq in the postseason. He now has 8 first game exits in the playoffs, and is now 9-11 overall. He's just not the same QB in the playoffs that he is in the regular season for some reason.

 

I mean, I've heard on the pregame shows today that he "played great, can't blame this one on manning" which to be sure, is true. but played great? he had three TD's and 2 game killing picks in 5 quarters AT HOME against a defense missing some of it's best players. I wouldn't call that "playing great" like espn is committed to telling us this morning.

 

3. I was amazed that Fox, on 3rd and 7 with, didn't let peyton throw the ball. Peyton is one of the best QB's of all time, and excels in the west coast offense, you can't design a play there that gets a receiver the ball short (read: check down or quick 3 yard slant, which the ravens would have given you to protect the first down) and let him try to make a play? instead you conceed the possession.

 

The bronco's in general were way to conservative late, and they paid for it.

 

4. Joe Flaco should buy Tory Smith dinner for the next 3 seasons, he made him look like a super star, rather than a above average QB. That second TD catch in particular, where smith somehow halted his forward momentum and picked the ball out of the air before bailey could pick it off was amazing. I've heard that called a "great throw by flaco!" this morning, that was a awful throw, and if smith dosen't make an amazing play on that ball it's incomplete or picked.

 

Fun game to watch though, and as a Patriots fan I'm happy that if we take care of business today we get a home game next week.

[The Final Countdown]

When both teams play to perfection on both sides of the ball, they neutralize each other and you don't always get the most excitement out of it.

Sure, but I think it's a pretty big jump from perfection to sloppy as hell.

 

I acknowledge that it was a dramatic game, but to me dramatic does not necessarily equal good. Too much sloppiness for me, but hey, YMMV.

[jwt13]

My random thoughts on last night's crazy game:

 

1. John Fox should be being hammered in the media today for the kneel down at the end of regulation, but somehow the narrative from the bronco's apologists is "well, you don't want to take any risks!"

 

you have peyton manning, 31 seconds and 2 timeouts. That's easily 5-6 plays. maybe 8 if you get plays at the sidelines. All you need is a FG to win it, amazingly cowardly play by the bronco's right there.

 

My GF turned to me as they did that and said " I cannot believe they just gave up right there. I hope the ravens win now, just because that was such a Bleep move. You have to try to win the game there!" and I could not disagree.

 

2. Listen, I fully acknowledge that Peyton is one of the top 10 all time QB's, but man, he is brett farve esq in the postseason. He now has 8 first game exits in the playoffs, and is now 9-11 overall. He's just not the same QB in the playoffs that he is in the regular season for some reason.

 

I mean, I've heard on the pregame shows today that he "played great, can't blame this one on manning" which to be sure, is true. but played great? he had three TD's and 2 game killing picks in 5 quarters AT HOME against a defense missing some of it's best players. I wouldn't call that "playing great" like espn is committed to telling us this morning.

 

3. I was amazed that Fox, on 3rd and 7 with, didn't let peyton throw the ball. Peyton is one of the best QB's of all time, and excels in the west coast offense, you can't design a play there that gets a receiver the ball short (read: check down or quick 3 yard slant, which the ravens would have given you to protect the first down) and let him try to make a play? instead you conceed the possession.

 

The bronco's in general were way to conservative late, and they paid for it.

 

4. Joe Flaco should buy Tory Smith dinner for the next 3 seasons, he made him look like a super star, rather than a above average QB. That second TD catch in particular, where smith somehow halted his forward momentum and picked the ball out of the air before bailey could pick it off was amazing. I've heard that called a "great throw by flaco!" this morning, that was a awful throw, and if smith dosen't make an amazing play on that ball it's incomplete or picked.

 

Fun game to watch though, and as a Patriots fan I'm happy that if we take care of business today we get a home game next week.

 

# 1 You saw what happened in OT, Fox didn't want that to happen in Reg, it was a good choice if you ask me.

[crownsy]

Well if that's true, then lets end the "Peyton manning is an elite QB" argument. I personally think that if you have a 5 time MVP Under center and pay him one of the highest salaries in the leauge, he should be able to drive you down close to a FG with 2 timeouts and 30 seconds left.

 

Although as a pats fan, I wish more people were of your mind on the subject, that would just about en the Tom vs Peyton debate. Because there is no way on gods green earth Brady takes a knee there.

[GruntMark]

Seattle should have brought their much hyped defense.

 

These fill ins from Our Mother of Mercys Schools for Orphans arent getting it done.

[lazorbeak]

My random thoughts on last night's crazy game:

 

1. John Fox should be being hammered in the media today for the kneel down at the end of regulation, but somehow the narrative from the bronco's apologists is "well, you don't want to take any risks!"

 

you have peyton manning, 31 seconds and 2 timeouts. That's easily 5-6 plays. maybe 8 if you get plays at the sidelines. All you need is a FG to win it, amazingly cowardly play by the bronco's right there.

 

My GF turned to me as they did that and said " I cannot believe they just gave up right there. I hope the ravens win now, just because that was such a Bleep move. You have to try to win the game there!" and I could not disagree.

 

2. Listen, I fully acknowledge that Peyton is one of the top 10 all time QB's, but man, he is brett farve esq in the postseason. He now has 8 first game exits in the playoffs, and is now 9-11 overall. He's just not the same QB in the playoffs that he is in the regular season for some reason.

 

I mean, I've heard on the pregame shows today that he "played great, can't blame this one on manning" which to be sure, is true. but played great? he had three TD's and 2 game killing picks in 5 quarters AT HOME against a defense missing some of it's best players. I wouldn't call that "playing great" like espn is committed to telling us this morning.

 

3. I was amazed that Fox, on 3rd and 7 with, didn't let peyton throw the ball. Peyton is one of the best QB's of all time, and excels in the west coast offense, you can't design a play there that gets a receiver the ball short (read: check down or quick 3 yard slant, which the ravens would have given you to protect the first down) and let him try to make a play? instead you conceed the possession.

 

The bronco's in general were way to conservative late, and they paid for it.

 

4. Joe Flaco should buy Tory Smith dinner for the next 3 seasons, he made him look like a super star, rather than a above average QB. That second TD catch in particular, where smith somehow halted his forward momentum and picked the ball out of the air before bailey could pick it off was amazing. I've heard that called a "great throw by flaco!" this morning, that was a awful throw, and if smith dosen't make an amazing play on that ball it's incomplete or picked.

 

Fun game to watch though, and as a Patriots fan I'm happy that if we take care of business today we get a home game next week.

 

Agreed on most of these points. The Broncos were practically handed the game (14 free points) but gave the Ravens every opportunity to come back into it. If they get one more first down instead of running it, if they at least make an attempt to move the ball down the field and attempting a field goal in regulation, then there isn't even an overtime. Way too much field position gaming in OT, too. I still can't believe how completely Denver blew the coverage on that last touchdown throw though. That was just sad.

 

jwt, that's just not a very good argument. Totally different situation at the end of regulation where the Ravens had no timeouts and would basically be giving up 10-15 yard throws every play to avoid giving up the deep ball. If you can't move the ball with two timeouts against a prevent defense, forget being a top quarterback, you might as well play for the Cardinals.

 

The other game wasn't nearly as dramatic, and CK, despite some early jitters, looked like a video game character out there. The throws he was able to make were unreal, and that's before you factor in the 50 yard TD run.

 

I can at least feel good about the Ravens pick, even if the Packers defense is worse than I thought.

 

And you think the Seattle defense will have some coffee and show up to play in the second half? They're making Michael Turner look 5 years younger.

[BHK1978]

Well at the start of the playoffs I said Falcons vs. Patriots in the Super Bowl. I am glad I was wrong about that (I really did not care who won the NFC, but I am very happy the Ravens won the AFC).

[moon_lit_tears]

Well at the start of the playoffs I said Falcons vs. Patriots in the Super Bowl. I am glad I was wrong about that (I really did not care who won the NFC, but I am very happy the Ravens won the AFC).

 

 

Was hoping Atlanta won, but after my Skins were taken out the Ravens have been my pick. Not that I really like them...they are just doing good this season.

[bigtplaystew]

Ray Lewis annoys me because he always takes this "I was always the underdog" approach to his career, which just isn't true. He was always a well hyped and well respected MLB as long as I've been aware of him, which goes back to his college days. Dude just annoys me.

 

But he plays with emotion and he's fun to watch. And I'm an Eagles fan so since the dirty Patsies stole signals and cheated us out of a superbowl (seriously, Brady knew where every blitz was coming from int he second half it was crap) I'm down with the Ravens.

 

I like Kapernick too tho. And I've been a Vernon Davis fan since his college days so I have a soft spot for the niners. Esp since I was a little kid when Montana was amazing so I kinda like them too. It's going to be a great game. These playoffs have been magnificent all around from an emotional aspect.

[lazorbeak]

Ray Lewis annoys me because he always takes this "I was always the underdog" approach to his career, which just isn't true. He was always a well hyped and well respected MLB as long as I've been aware of him, which goes back to his college days. Dude just annoys me.

 

But he plays with emotion and he's fun to watch. And I'm an Eagles fan so since the dirty Patsies stole signals and cheated us out of a superbowl (seriously, Brady knew where every blitz was coming from int he second half it was crap) I'm down with the Ravens.

 

I like Kapernick too tho. And I've been a Vernon Davis fan since his college days so I have a soft spot for the niners. Esp since I was a little kid when Montana was amazing so I kinda like them too. It's going to be a great game. These playoffs have been magnificent all around from an emotional aspect.

 

To be fair, the Eagles still could've won if McNabb hadn't been incredibly inaccurate throwing the ball, with 20 incompletions and 3 interceptions.

 

How much does Vegas love the Atlanta Falcons? Even when they lose, they win, as they covered the spread by playing exactly like they always do- get a lead and then blow it with their crappy secondary, then rely on their receivers to bail them out. They basically did some version of that 7 times this year, then did it twice in the playoffs.

 

Also, two weeks ago I said Flacco wasn't a top 10 QB and was barely top 15... after that win, I think I'd put him in my top 10. I wouldn't trust Matt Schaub or other "game manager" level QB's to win on the road against New England. He's still not a top 5 guy, but he has that fearlessness you need to challenge a defense downfield (Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers play a similar style, but I'd put Flacco in front of both of them right now, even if it's just that he has better targets and a better line). Also, Kaepernick wasn't in my previous top 10, because at the time he had only played in half a dozen games, but I'd put him there now. That kid is really, really good.

[moon_lit_tears]

I like when people jump all over these guys with love and stuff because they have a good game/season.

 

Flaco isn't that great....but he's had a few average seasons and one decent season. He's not a top ten right now just because they had a few good games.

 

To be fair NE played really crappy and Flaco has a decent team around him. Still not enough to put him high up.

[BHK1978]

Flaco isn't that great....but he's had a few average seasons and one decent season. He's not a top ten right now just because they had a few good games.

 

To be fair NE played really crappy and Flaco has a decent team around him. Still not enough to put him high up.

 

My fantasy team agrees with this statement...

[moon_lit_tears]

My fantasy team agrees with this statement...

 

Tiz why RG 3 started most weeks on my team.

[BHK1978]

Tiz why RG 3 started most weeks on my team.

 

Well Eli started most of my games but the two of them had this annoying thing going on where when one would have a good game the other would suck. It just so happened that I always seemed to start the one that had the bad week every week.

[moon_lit_tears]

Well Eli started most of my games but the two of them had this annoying thing going on where when one would have a good game the other would suck. It just so happened that I always seemed to start the one that had the bad week every week.

 

 

I had that issue last year. This year I had Rivers as my back up...It didn't matter which I started they both had average weeks or better.

[lazorbeak]

I like when people jump all over these guys with love and stuff because they have a good game/season.

 

Flaco isn't that great....but he's had a few average seasons and one decent season. He's not a top ten right now just because they had a few good games.

 

To be fair NE played really crappy and Flaco has a decent team around him. Still not enough to put him high up.

 

He's part of a system and he's not a superstar, but he's made big plays and is looking good. He's going to get a big payday based on these past three games, whether it's in Baltimore or elsewhere. I mean Manning, Brady, other Manning, Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are proven champions that have pretty much done everything. That's six guys, and even if we're still saying that all of them are elite QBs, who's at the next level? Matt Ryan, Colin Kaepernick, maybe RGIII (if he can stay healthy), and... who else? I wouldn't put Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Matt Stafford, etc. over Flacco the way he's played the past three games. And his career record as a starter is 62-30, and even in a good system, that's pretty good. I mean Arizona had a top 5 defense and one amazing receiver (but no running game at all), and they would absolutely love any of the guys I just listed.

[moon_lit_tears]

He's part of a system and he's not a superstar, but he's made big plays and is looking good. He's going to get a big payday based on these past three games, whether it's in Baltimore or elsewhere. I mean Manning, Brady, other Manning, Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are proven champions that have pretty much done everything. That's six guys, and even if we're still saying that all of them are elite QBs, who's at the next level? Matt Ryan, Colin Kaepernick, maybe RGIII (if he can stay healthy), and... who else? I wouldn't put Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Matt Stafford, etc. over Flacco the way he's played the past three games. And his career record as a starter is 62-30, and even in a good system, that's pretty good. I mean Arizona had a top 5 defense and one amazing receiver (but no running game at all), and they would absolutely love any of the guys I just listed.

 

A owner of a team would be a moron to give a HUGE payday over 3 games. If you think that's going to happen then that makes you a fool.

 

 

I understand the TEAM has a good record. If he didn't have receivers to catch his not always good passes he wouldn't have a good record.

[lazorbeak]

A owner of a team would be a moron to give a HUGE payday over 3 games. If you think that's going to happen then that makes you a fool.

 

 

I understand the TEAM has a good record. If he didn't have receivers to catch his not always good passes he wouldn't have a good record.

 

Ugh, yes, I must be a "fool" to think that a guy being the winning quarterback of two road playoff games in a row who's playing in the Super Bowl matters in contract negotiations. In other news, Super Bowl winner and noted "fool" Kurt Warner says Flacco is worth a 100 million dollar contract based on his play. The only guys that have gotten where Flacco is the same way in the past decade have been Kurt Warner, Eli Manning and Aaron Rodgers. The reality is that if Flacco doesn't get the money from Baltimore, he'll get it somewhere else. There's at least ten teams whose starting QB next year is "??????" and all of them would love to say they signed a QB who played in the Super Bowl and isn't Kerry Collins. Even if the team struggled it would be worth it to show the fans that a franchise was serious about improvement that they were willing to spend money to bring a guy that has shown the tools to be an elite quarterback against some of the top teams in the league.

 

I mean his best analogue right now might be Eli Manning, who similarly got to the Super Bowl his fifth season and never had the gaudy numbers his brother did because Coughlin didn't expect him to throw the ball 45 times every game. In fact, Flacco looks better on paper than Manning did with similar circumstances; Manning had more of an issue with turnovers in his early career. Manning has since proved he was an elite QB, so I don't see why Flacco can't do the same.

 

 

Warner link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-kurt-warner-said-joe-flacco-has-earned-100-million-contract-20130122,0,1902763.story

[Stennick]

<p>MLT you might not like Flacco and honestly I think the term "elite" is pretty stupid. Ben was supposed to be elite what has he done the last four seasons besides assault women in bathroom stalls? Manning is supposed to be elite but the guy is something like 9-11 in the playoffs with SIX first round playoff exits. What good is it that he can throw for 10,000 yards in the regular season if he can't win the first playoff game of the season? Even Brady who is supposed to be "elite" has a 66 QB rating in the fourth qtr in the playoffs since his last Super Bowl. How elite can you be when you play your worst football when it matters most? </p><p> </p><p>

Flacco will get paid and he will get paid by Baltimore because honestly who else do they have? If anything else that "100 million" which I don't think it will be that much we're looking at whatever Ben is making or whatever Eli is making. Either way the contract will pay for itself with "Joe Cool" merchandise. </p><p> </p><p>

The question I have and I think the determining factor is going to be can Baltimore's old defense hold up against Colin? I don't think they can.</p>

[moon_lit_tears]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><strong>Ugh, yes, I must be a "fool" to think that a guy being the winning quarterback of two road playoff games in a row </strong>who's playing in the Super Bowl matters in contract negotiations. In other news, Super Bowl winner and noted "fool" Kurt Warner says Flacco is worth a 100 million dollar contract based on his play. The only guys that have gotten where Flacco is the same way in the past decade have been Kurt Warner, Eli Manning and Aaron Rodgers. The reality is that if Flacco doesn't get the money from Baltimore, he'll get it somewhere else. There's at least ten teams whose starting QB next year is "??????" and all of them would love to say they signed a QB who played in the Super Bowl and isn't Kerry Collins. Even if the team struggled it would be worth it to show the fans that a franchise was serious about improvement that they were willing to spend money to bring a guy that has shown the tools to be an elite quarterback against some of the top teams in the league.<p> </p><p> I mean his best analogue right now might be Eli Manning, who similarly got to the Super Bowl his fifth season and never had the gaudy numbers his brother did because Coughlin didn't expect him to throw the ball 45 times every game. In fact, Flacco looks better on paper than Manning did with similar circumstances; Manning had more of an issue with turnovers in his early career. Manning has since proved he was an elite QB, so I don't see why Flacco can't do the same.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Warner link: <a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-kurt-warner-said-joe-flacco-has-earned-100-million-contract-20130122,0,1902763.story" rel="external nofollow">http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-kurt-warner-said-joe-flacco-has-earned-100-million-contract-20130122,0,1902763.story</a></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You do realize he didn't do it on his own right?</p><p> </p><p> This is the problem I have with football "fans" Yes he's the QB of a TEAM that won two playoff games. Yes he's the QB of a TEAM that's going to the superbowl.</p><p> </p><p> Does his D get respect for the job they did? No Flakeo won it on his own. Lets play him HUGE bucks. </p><p> </p><p> No I don't think they have a great Offense and yes he's a decent QB but lets face it. He didn't do it on his own. .</p>

[lazorbeak]

You do realize he didn't do it on his own right?

 

Yes, I do. See how the bolded part you quoted says he's the "winning quarterback"? The fact that he has played beyond his projected ability has ensured that he's going to get a big payday. That's not me being a dumb "fan" or espousing my love of "Flakeo." It's just reality. Seriously, let's move on.

[bigtplaystew]

Flacco's been a beast in the playoffs. He'll get paid. Overpaid probably.

 

I'm rooting for the Niners. I don't hate Ray Lewis at all, I just never liked his "I did it despite the naysayers" nonsense. Dude was a first round draft choice and has been one of the most highly regarded MLBs in the game ever since. If there's one thing that annoys me it's when a highly touted entity is considered under rated when they're anything but. It simply would make me laugh when he's crying after the big loss. His emotional bullcrap bugs me. I actually haven't watched much coverage these playoffs beyond the games themselves because I am tired of hearing about Ray Lewis and listening to him cry at this point. Which shows how the media oversaturated things because just four weeks ago, I was kinda hoping he'd get one last good ride.

 

I also don't want Juan Castillo getting a god damned superbowl ring the year he was fired from my team. :-)

 

I dig the Niners and their style. I like the way they play football and I want Kaepernick to have an awesome game. I do think the way both QBs have been playing, we're in for a damn good game.

[lazorbeak]

If in some alternate universe Ray Lewis washed out of the NFL, he would be the most successful pro wrestler ever. He has the ability to say completely absurd things as though he 100% believes them, gets fired up to an almost comical degree, and looks like he's on the verge of tears every time he starts talking about God. That plus having a six-pack in his late 30's would make him a 10 time champion.

[bigtplaystew]

If in some alternate universe Ray Lewis washed out of the NFL, he would be the most successful pro wrestler ever. He has the ability to say completely absurd things as though he 100% believes them, gets fired up to an almost comical degree, and looks like he's on the verge of tears every time he starts talking about God. That plus having a six-pack in his late 30's would make him a 10 time champion.

 

Couldn't agree with any of this any more :-)

[crownsy]

Just had to chime in and agree on Ray. I love him as a player, but god is the "no one ever believed in me!!!" fake reality he's made up for himself tired.

 

His madden 13 intro, which I love, starts with: "I've always been told, i'm not big enough....not fast enough...not strong enough....not good enough."

 

and I'm always like "ray, no one ever told you that, ever."

 

actually, Mabey his pee wee football coach told him that. perhaps he was skinny as a 10 year old.

 

but come on, Guy is listed at 6'2 240. even coming out of college you were like 225 pounds of raw muscle. that's pretty much the prototypical MLB. give it a rest acting like you were some scrawny kid drafted in the 5th round who made it big.

 

You were a first round stud who turned into exactly what people thought you had the potential to be. It doesn't mean your any less the man, but this underdog stuff he's invented is hard to take with a straight face.