Official NFL Discussion Thread

[Remianen]

Khan will change his tune when LA finishes work on that stadium. He'd be turning down a potential billion (that's with a 'b') in first year revenues and guarantees to stay in St. Louis (NFL has proven it can thrive without the second largest media market in the country so LA's going to have to seriously entice someone to move). If he's not willing to move, Wayne Weaver will.

 

And say bye bye to LT. No way he lasts past March 5th. Chargers aren't paying that roster bonus (he's not worth it anymore). He's going to wind up like Marvin Harrison did.

 

Oh and I hope the Saints fans enjoy their first Super Bowl. Not likely to repeat given the restrictions placed on roster movement (none of the Saints free agents are worth a 3rd so they're not likely to lose any free agents). Well deserved though. Still can't help but think how bad the Dolphins must feel or how good the Texans feel.

[Stennick]

Who knows what Khan has instore he's lived in the STL area for the last 40 years, he owns a company in IL, he went to school around here, has family here. Maybe he'll pick up and move but would LA really want a 1-15 football team.

 

It might happen and if it does more power to the guy. I think there are a few teams around the league that have to be looking at LA and thinking. San Fran was talked about two years ago, the Saints were moving three years ago, jacksonville is struggling to sell out even with a decent football team.

 

They should have moved L.T after last season but kept him around. Great guy, great player but its time to move on.

[PeterHilton]

Who knows what Khan has instore he's lived in the STL area for the last 40 years, he owns a company in IL, he went to school around here, has family here. Maybe he'll pick up and move but would LA really want a 1-15 football team.

 

It has nothing to do with that record.

 

The company i work has a good relationship with AEG and the LA Live/Staples Center complex and whenever their executives talk about getting a team into the stadium in Carson, they don't talkin terms of talent or record, they talk about revenue.

 

The developers are making as much if not more money from the commercial and retail developments springing up around Staples. Their vision for the land around the Carosn stadium is this insane, massive commercial complex with million dollar condos sitting atop the commercial centers, each condo with a view of the stadium field . They literally think it will be abigger attraction than Disneyland.

 

And none of that happens without a team. They don't care what the franchise looks like ...and if the hard cap goes away they are prepared to spend like the Yankees to get LA fans to buy in.

[EddieFnG]

Early april ? It said 75% of NFL owners have already approved and the sale is finalized.

[Stennick]

Early april ? It said 75% of NFL owners have already approved and the sale is finalized.

 

No it says that he NEEDS 75 % vote to get ownership cleared they haven't even voted yet and won't until April or May.

[Remianen]

Early april ? It said 75% of NFL owners have already approved and the sale is finalized.

 

Owner's meeting coincides with the Combine (at least it did last year) so they couldn't have voted already. Usually this is the meeting where the competition committee presents their recommendations for rule changes and such.

 

And Peter's right. Look beyond the surface. I've been involved (in an ancillary fashion) with the Nets' proposed move to Brooklyn and I can tell you it has nothing to do with the quality of the team. What's most important is the team's membership in the league. They're not selling the team, they're selling THE LEAGUE. You can't really be a baller city unless you have at least one team from every major North American sports league (NFL, NBA, MLB, and maybe the NHL though they're leakin' real bad stateside). The ridiculous cities have two of each (New York, as an example. LA has two in each except the NFL, etc). These cities build entire complexes for their teams because of the retail, commercial, and residential properties that come with that, not even counting the other attractions.

 

Blame Baltimore. When Camden Yards opened, the floodgates opened with it.

[Craig Edwards]

what is everyones thoughts on the Draft. I know my bengals are most likely to pick a SS, FS, or WR in the first round as they need the most help there than any where else.

[Wallbanger]

what is everyones thoughts on the Draft. I know my bengals are most likely to pick a SS, FS, or WR in the first round as they need the most help there than any where else.

 

With the combine this weekend I think more draft strategies will fall into place. You're starting to see some positioning already, with LT's and Brian Westbrook's releases from SD and Philly respectively.

 

Any lesser known college folks we should be keeping an eye on?

[Remianen]

what is everyones thoughts on the Draft. I know my bengals are most likely to pick a SS, FS, or WR in the first round as they need the most help there than any where else.

 

I don't think the Bengals will take any of those. At 21, I see the cats taking a tackle (offensive or defensive). That low in the order, you take the best available player. Safeties and receivers can be had in later rounds. The first round is for franchise skill positions (quarterback, tackle, pass rusher). For every Jason Peters (undrafted Pro Bowl left tackle), there are a hundred Jake Longs and Joe Thomases. But for every Wes Welker, there's a Charles Rogers or Mike Williams or Ashley Lelie. Which is more expensive a blunder?

[GatorBait19]

If Dez Bryant falls to bengals at 21, they might possibly take him, but also look for Defense because of the fact that the WR group this year is rich

 

Either that or Benn in the 2nd would be interesting Chad Johnson is getting older and closing in on the last year or two of his contract

 

Bryant and Benn are both extremly talented WR's and could both help their offense as the third WR behind Johnson and Bryant

 

Remember Bryant is on his 5 team in 9 years.

 

 

One thing I don't agree with is the fact people are calling the Jets winners in the market, they trade away Rhodes who I still believe is a talented SS just didn't fit into Ryan's plans, they also lost Jones and are going to rely on Greene, not say it's a bad thing but why not keep Jones, even with his age going up he rushed for 1400 yards last year and him and Greene would have been a great one, two punch along with Leon Washington.

 

Also I am scared about the pick up of Cromartie, yes he is a talented player but he is like Peppers, lacks that 100% effort every play, doesn't tackle and doesn't tackle well, good thing though is it might not matter in the run game because they have such a talented front 7.

 

 

The interesting thing will be the NFC North, Bears have done stuff to improve the team (even though I still believe they have a big weakness at WR and other area's). The Lions have improved, while the Packers and Vikes (mainly because of the new rules) haven't done much

 

 

But I do like how many of the owners (Jerry Jones, Dan Snider) haven't gone full blast in free agent market, people are shedding cap left and right NFC South has done little in the Market (only Falcons signed a big contract)

[CQI13]

Tomlinson in talks with the Vikings. That'd be interesting. Though I'd prefer if he went to New England.

[GatorBait19]

Tomlinson in talks with the Vikings. That'd be interesting. Though I'd prefer if he went to New England.

 

Tomlinson still has stuff in the tank, I think he'll go into the season in great shape and the fact that he won't be the main guy will help him, he's a better all around player than AP but AP is the better RB

[GatorBait19]

What else could be interesting his teams like the Vikes, Seahawks, Browns, Jags, Panters, Radiers, Bills, Cards could all draft QB's

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I've been thinking about spread betting tonight. It's probably pointless but how many different outcomes can there be to a standard week of 16 games? 2 outcomes per match, 16 matches, 2^16 would be the formula right?

[Remianen]

If Dez Bryant falls to bengals at 21, they might possibly take him, but also look for Defense because of the fact that the WR group this year is rich

 

Either that or Benn in the 2nd would be interesting Chad Johnson is getting older and closing in on the last year or two of his contract

 

Bryant and Benn are both extremly talented WR's and could both help their offense as the third WR behind Johnson and Bryant

 

Remember Bryant is on his 5 team in 9 years.

 

First off, Antonio Bryant is inferior to Terrell Owens as an on field threat. Yeah, I said it. Bryant parlayed one good year into a big contract. What was he doing prior to that year? He wasn't even in the league! T.O. has an issue with drops but no one can question his level of production. I would be shocked (SHOCKED, I tell you) if Bryant makes it through a full 16 game season without missing time due to injury. Matt Jones could possibly contribute but he likes to treat his nose so I wouldn't count on it.

 

One thing I don't agree with is the fact people are calling the Jets winners in the market, they trade away Rhodes who I still believe is a talented SS just didn't fit into Ryan's plans, they also lost Jones and are going to rely on Greene, not say it's a bad thing but why not keep Jones, even with his age going up he rushed for 1400 yards last year and him and Greene would have been a great one, two punch along with Leon Washington.

 

Two words: Roster bonus. Tell me, would you be willing to pay $5.8 million to Thomas Jones? $3 million of it in cash in March. Thomas Jones isn't feature back material. Heck, the day of the feature back is long past. Most teams want/need two to three running backs to split in rotation. Shonn Greene is far cheaper than Jones (who outright refused to restructure his deal and/or take a pay cut) and with Leon coming back and the ability to draft a good back in the later rounds, he was expendable. You talk about how many yards he rushed for last year. I'm guessing the fact he was running behind arguably the best offensive line in the league had nothing to do with that?

 

Kerry Rhodes was not a Rex Ryan type of player. Did his skillset match that of Ed Reed in the slightest? Heck no! He couldn't sniff Reed's jock. That doesn't mean he isn't a good player. It means he's not even close to being the kind of player for that position in Rex Ryan's system.

 

Also I am scared about the pick up of Cromartie, yes he is a talented player but he is like Peppers, lacks that 100% effort every play, doesn't tackle and doesn't tackle well, good thing though is it might not matter in the run game because they have such a talented front 7.

 

GatorBait, go look at film. Specifically, go look at film of the Ravens defense under Rex Ryan. Look at a kid named McAllister. Ball hawk, excellent cover guy, not all that great in the tackling department. Rex Ryan's defense doesn't require textbook tackling technique from the corners. It requires corners who can flat out cover, DBs that generate takeaways, basically the things needed so Rex can send everything PLUS the kitchen sink at the quarterback. What's also important to consider is depth. Since quarterbacks are no longer going to be able to throw away from Revis, they'll have to pick their poison in standard sets. BUT, if they go to 3 receiver sets, they can expose a lack of depth and victimize the Jets' nickel back. But 3 receivers means fewer people left to protect the quarterback. Rex Ryan's defenses LOVE that. Hell, if he had the personnel, ROB Ryan's defenses would love that (but he doesn't).

 

The interesting thing will be the NFC North, Bears have done stuff to improve the team (even though I still believe they have a big weakness at WR and other area's). The Lions have improved, while the Packers and Vikes (mainly because of the new rules) haven't done much

 

The Bears are pretending. Peppers isn't a really good fit for their scheme. Unless they change it to allow him to freelance (like the Packers did years ago with Reggie White), he isn't going to have the kind of impact people are expecting, I don't think. The Bears need receivers BAAAAAAAAAAD. Devin Hester is not a #1 receiver in this league, Johnny Knox works better from the slot (he's so slight, bigger corners outmuscle him too much), and Jay proved how a good line (Denver) can mask a quarterback's deficiencies. They need line help in a MAJOR way or Cutler's gonna die.

 

But I do like how many of the owners (Jerry Jones, Dan Snider) haven't gone full blast in free agent market, people are shedding cap left and right NFC South has done little in the Market (only Falcons signed a big contract)

 

Dunta's contract wasn't by any means 'big'. I think folks need to change their thinking and realize the big number isn't the one that matters. Guaranteed money is the only thing that counts since it's highly unlikely Robinson will see the full $57 million. Haven't we seen this enough already to realize that? Guaranteed, it works out to less than 5 million a year, which is peanuts for a cover corner. How much is Asomougha makin' again? What's Champ's annual paycheck? I would almost guarantee that the bulk of that contract's value comes in the final three years. It also probably includes things like roster bonuses and crap. How many people were released this year to avoid paying out those bonuses?

 

I think the Rams have bought into the Bradford hype and are gonna take him. I think they're freakin' nuts. It does zero good to draft a franchise quarterback and have him take snaps behind that atrocious line. Might as well make him stand on subway tracks and wait for incoming trains. Spags' defense needs at least a couple of top flight D-lineman to make it go. The Rams have one (Chris Long - don't judge him by his first two years. How long did Mario Williams take to develop???). A DT would help them immensely and they can get a franchise QB for far cheaper than $41+ million guaranteed, in the second or third round. I have a problem with Bradford. History teaches that once a QB injures his throwing shoulder, he'll keep injuring his throwing shoulder (hello Mr Pennington, how are ya?). Plus, I think the Rams will have a shot at a VERY good QB outside of the first round. I believe Dan LeFevour is the person they need to focus on. But no, they're going to be the Rams and take Bradford, he's going to get his ass torn in preseason and they'll be playing their backups. Again. But on the bright side, they'll have a chance to draft Jake Locker next year!

[GatorBait19]

First McAlister (yes that is really how you spell it, I had to make sure myself) was taken way before Ryan's time, back when Marvin Lewis ran that defense

 

Second Cromartie isnt anywhere close to being as good as Chris was, Chris avg. over 40 tackles a year with the Ravens, he was a solid tackler (yes not a great one) but solid, and unless you can prove other wise then I don't want to hear. Cromartie isn't solid at all, he only does the pass well, and I have seen times where he gives up there, he lack of effort is troublesome

 

 

About the Bryant thing, you know that my main Bryant is that one was Dez Bryant right? I never said the other Bryant was better than T.O, now at this time period he you don't know, T.O is old, can't hang on to the ball, and Bryant is known for his solid hands, but a poor route runner. But we won't know till it's all said and down, both are cancers in a locker room though

 

 

Hm, your comment about Thomas Jones I found awkward because of the fact he was the third leading rusher in the NFL and had 14 TD's, behind a rookie QB, even with a great offense line when teams know you're going to rush the ball because you're QB isn't that great yet, it still effects you. Also he only made 900,000k this year, pretty cheap for the 3rd ranked rusher last year, and yes I would be willing to pay Thomas Jones who just had the best year of his career 5.8 million dollars, I mean would you pay Reggie Bush to be the highest paid RB in the league (no lie) doubtful. To say Thomas Jones isn't a feature back is odd to me, yes most teams do dual RB system now, but they all still have a feature back out of those two RB, Ten. with Chris Johnson and White (Chris emerged this year and change that stance to many people), when Jax had Taylor and Drew, Taylor was still the feature, Panthers with Williams and Stweart (Williams is still the main guy), Vikes with Peterson and Taylor (Peterson has been the feature back since is 3rd career game) Giants (Brandon Jacobs was the feature back)

 

So yes the dual RB system is big, but they all still have a feature back, someone who can carry the rock 25 times a game if they must, the daul back system is so high because it saves the legs of the RB, Oh and once again..... YES I'D BE WILLING TO PAY THOMAS JONES 5.8 MILLION DOLLARS,

 

and someone refusing to take a pay cut and people getting mad is dumb to me, the Bucs asked D. Brooks to do it every year, then finally one day he said no just so he could do it again the next year, Thomas Jones' contract was front loaded, but 5.8 million for a back who rushed for 1400 yards, 14 TD and avg over 4 yards a carry to me is nothing.

 

And you also forgot he signed with KC for 2 years at 5 mill. altogether and the Jets wouldn't match it

 

Peppers is a very good fit in the system, Rod M. their D-Coord is considered to be the best D-Line guy in the league, S. Rice when he went to Tampa was a very good player, but when he finished with Marnelli (however you spell it) he was considered one of the top pass rushers in the game (active), also it only took Mario Williams one full year in the NFL to catch on, 4 years 39.5 sacks is a very good, not saying I don't think Long will be a good DE I'm just saying Mario caught on quickly

 

But yes the bears are pretending, but it should still be interesting

 

And I believe Robison got a big deal from the Falcons, 6 years, 57 million, and 22.5 guaranteed is pretty big for a guy who isn't better than Revis, Woodson, Asomougha, or Bailey. But the Falcons needed a CB really badly so they paid for it. And Bailey and Asomougha are two of the best CB in the leage so yes they do earn that money, and next year Revis will destroy both of their contracts

[Stennick]

Yeah Thomas Jones was the third leading rusher of the year and had double digit TD's thats kinda what you want if you want a "feature" back. I still think there are feature backs there is just "supporting role" backs in several places as well.

[Remianen]

First McAlister (yes that is really how you spell it, I had to make sure myself) was taken way before Ryan's time, back when Marvin Lewis ran that defense

 

Second Cromartie isnt anywhere close to being as good as Chris was, Chris avg. over 40 tackles a year with the Ravens, he was a solid tackler (yes not a great one) but solid, and unless you can prove other wise then I don't want to hear. Cromartie isn't solid at all, he only does the pass well, and I have seen times where he gives up there, he lack of effort is troublesome

 

*shrug* Agree to disagree. How many tackles did Deion Sanders average when he was hands down the best cover corner in the league? I think it's a mistake to judge a cover corner on stats like tackles and even picks. Nnamdi is the highest paid corner in the league. How many picks does he average a year? A change of scenery is often given as a reason for players' habits and performances changing. Isn't that right, Kyle Orton?

 

 

About the Bryant thing, you know that my main Bryant is that one was Dez Bryant right? I never said the other Bryant was better than T.O, now at this time period he you don't know, T.O is old, can't hang on to the ball, and Bryant is known for his solid hands, but a poor route runner. But we won't know till it's all said and down, both are cancers in a locker room though

 

Dez Bryant isn't on his fifth team in 9 years. That was the part I was focusing on. As I said, TO isn't a perfect receiver by any means. But you cannot downplay his level of performance, despite those things. As far as him being a locker room cancer, yeah okay. His most recent stop proves he can "fit in" to a degree.

 

Hm, your comment about Thomas Jones I found awkward because of the fact he was the third leading rusher in the NFL and had 14 TD's, behind a rookie QB, even with a great offense line when teams know you're going to rush the ball because you're QB isn't that great yet, it still effects you. Also he only made 900,000k this year, pretty cheap for the 3rd ranked rusher last year, and yes I would be willing to pay Thomas Jones who just had the best year of his career 5.8 million dollars, I mean would you pay Reggie Bush to be the highest paid RB in the league (no lie) doubtful. To say Thomas Jones isn't a feature back is odd to me, yes most teams do dual RB system now, but they all still have a feature back out of those two RB, Ten. with Chris Johnson and White (Chris emerged this year and change that stance to many people), when Jax had Taylor and Drew, Taylor was still the feature, Panthers with Williams and Stweart (Williams is still the main guy), Vikes with Peterson and Taylor (Peterson has been the feature back since is 3rd career game) Giants (Brandon Jacobs was the feature back)

 

So yes the dual RB system is big, but they all still have a feature back, someone who can carry the rock 25 times a game if they must, the daul back system is so high because it saves the legs of the RB, Oh and once again..... YES I'D BE WILLING TO PAY THOMAS JONES 5.8 MILLION DOLLARS

 

Well obviously, you should be running an NFL franchise then. Let's ignore the fact that nobody else in the league felt Jones was worth 5.8 mil because of the wear on his tires, so to speak. Also, we obviously have a different view of what a 'feature back' actually is. It's not a surprise since folks' memories are so short.

 

A feature back is the ONE back who receives the lion's share of carries. Eric Dickerson was a feature back. Emmitt Smith during much of his Cowboys career, was a feature back. LT during the first few years of his career (especially during his record breaking season) was a feature back. Jamal Lewis during his Ravens stint at the beginning of the century, was a feature back. Feature backs average a minimum of 300 carries a season (and up to 400 touches). Adrian Peterson is indeed a feature back. Thomas Jones has been a feature back for much of his career, now that I look at his career stats so I was mistaken on that point. However, the feature back is a dying concept for the same reason Jones was released: it wears on a back over time. In this day and age, you don't need a feature back to be successful. You can have a very successful team with a running back by committee setup (remember Earth, Wind, and Fire?). Yes, one is going to receive more carries than the other(s), but not to the tune of 300+ touches. Brandon Jacobs, during the Giants Super Bowl run, touched the ball 225 times (202 rushing, 23 receiving). He was "spelled" repeatedly. Look at Terrell Davis's career. Notice a trend in this workload? That is an old school feature back.

 

and someone refusing to take a pay cut and people getting mad is dumb to me, the Bucs asked D. Brooks to do it every year, then finally one day he said no just so he could do it again the next year, Thomas Jones' contract was front loaded, but 5.8 million for a back who rushed for 1400 yards, 14 TD and avg over 4 yards a carry to me is nothing.

 

And you also forgot he signed with KC for 2 years at 5 mill. altogether and the Jets wouldn't match it

 

First off, why would the Jets even consider matching an offer for Thomas Jones when they released him? KC was willing to pay far more for Jones than the Jets thought he was worth for the role they had in mind for him. Why even bother niggling over that? And seriously, Kansas City is a team you want a 'Final Four' franchise to emulate? The Chiefs needed protection for Jamaal Charles. Jones fits the bill (and for peanuts, salary wise).

 

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what he made in 2009. That's not what we're talking about. In 2010, he was due a $3 million roster bonus in March (around the start of the league year) and a $2.8 million salary. That makes his total compensation for 2010.....$5.8 million. Too high for a back that isn't a team's only option. Too high for a back who was essentially ineffective at the most important time of the year. Too high for a back whose replacement LIT UP the playoffs while he couldn't get anything going. That's the danger teams are protecting against: your #1 weapon on the ground fading at the most important time of the year due to their previous workload. Too high when relatively low paid draft picks can come in and make an immediate impact ("Ray Rice from Rutgers running for the Ravens").

 

The Derrick Brooks example is a good one but begs a question. D. Brooks was easily one of the best players at his position AND a positive locker room presence. Who went after him when he was released? G'head, I'll wait.

 

A player's value is determined by the market, not the fans. If the fans had their way, every player would play their entire career with the same franchise that made them famous (not necessarily the one that drafted them or signed them first - Favre & Delhomme being good examples). But it doesn't work like that, especially not in a season with no cap and thus, no salary floor or ceiling. Thomas Jones plays a position that is easily replaceable for cheap. Thus, in order to justify his cost, he has to be far and away the best in the league at what he does. He's not. Yes, he's reliable and yes he's a "good" back but there are tons of "good" backs in the league. For every Thomas Jones you mention, I can present a Pierre Thomas or Mike Anderson. Plus, Kansas City's line is horrid so you really can't expect him to perform up to his previously set standard, especially not splitting significant time with Jamaal Charles.

 

Peppers is a very good fit in the system, Rod M. their D-Coord is considered to be the best D-Line guy in the league, S. Rice when he went to Tampa was a very good player, but when he finished with Marnelli (however you spell it) he was considered one of the top pass rushers in the game (active), also it only took Mario Williams one full year in the NFL to catch on, 4 years 39.5 sacks is a very good, not saying I don't think Long will be a good DE I'm just saying Mario caught on quickly

 

First off, Lovie's defense requires gap control for the linemen. That doesn't fit a pass rushing end like Peppers. It's designed to funnel the action to the linebackers (which accounts for Urlacher and Briggs' numbers) and that's not something you tend to have happen unless you then shift your 'backers to cover the possible holes created by an end that makes his own gaps (or loops around the tackle altogether, leaving a HUGE gap). I don't know what Rod Marinelli has to do with anything. I'm fairly sure they're not giving Peppers all that money just to teach him to be Alex Brown.

 

And you're comparing a FOUR YEAR career with a TWO YEAR career? Mario broke out in his second year but after his rookie season, people were STILL questioning taking him over Bush & Young. He was on a 'meh' team that didn't do much of anything. It's like being the most popular person in a town of 200 people. My point was, don't judge a top 5 defensive lineman's worth before the team manages to get people around them. Chris Long has the ability to approach his father's legend but of course, fans always seem to forget that Howie had some pretty damn good people playing alongside him.

 

And I believe Robison got a big deal from the Falcons, 6 years, 57 million, and 22.5 guaranteed is pretty big for a guy who isn't better than Revis, Woodson, Asomougha, or Bailey. But the Falcons needed a CB really badly so they paid for it. And Bailey and Asomougha are two of the best CB in the leage so yes they do earn that money, and next year Revis will destroy both of their contracts

 

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Even though every player and agent is more concerned with guaranteed money and only structures the total value for bragging rights, the big number will always impress fans more than the one that actually matters. Tell me, do you think Haynesworth is actually going to see $100 million too? I bet you also thought Thomas Jones would see the full $20 million his contract with the Jets called for too, huh? Doesn't work that way in today's NFL.

[GatorBait19]

Okay first I said Antino Bryant had been with 5 teams in 9 years and the Bengales are not that 5th team, But Dez Bryant was the main Bryant I was talking about because I think if he is there at 21st pick they should take him

 

Second D. Brooks being cut and no one signing him makes no sense in this arguement seeing as how I brought him up due to the fact he was asked to redo his contract every year and one year said no, he didn't face a backlash and wasn't cut because of it, it took another 2 years for that to happen

 

And yes I believe Jones was worth all the money the Jets paid him, which is why they gave him that contract, whether he performed or not in the playoffs I didn't care what he did in the playoffs, hell AP didn't do to well but I don't see the Vikes cutting him for it?

 

So you're saying Cromartie is the best coverage corner out there? do you trust him when things aren't going his way to give 100%

 

Are you a Jets fan?

 

and by your theroy of feature back there are currently only 6 feature backs but there are 14 teams who really only rely on 1 back

 

Ray Rice; Ravens, Adrian Peterson; Vikies, Chris Johnson; Titians, Jones Drew; Jax, Clinton Portis; Skins (doubt that check Redskins rushing numbers after he got hurt) Steven Jackson; Rams, Ryan Grant; Packers, Cedric Benson; Bengales, Frank Gore 9ers; Jamaal Charles (after Larry went bye bye); Cheifs, Rashard Mendenhall; Steelers; Matt Forte; Bears, Michael Turner; Falcons; Kevin Smith; Lions (I know he didn't much last year but is still considered their feature back, just has a horrible O-Line)

 

Thomas Jones is the only one left out and Bold are 300 carries plus which Jones was

 

Now you're telling me that each one of those 14 teams could survive with out there key running back becuase I don't

 

And I am not disagreeing with the fact that RB wear down, it happens that's why you can find them in the draft so easily, I am just stating after coming all his best year ever, why cut him and count on two RB's who one just came off injury and could be in trouble if LT signs anyways, and two Greene hasn't been the main guy in the NFL yet, sure he put up great numbers behind Jones and that O-Line, but now Jones is gone

 

also you're telling me it's cheaper to finish paying the rest of his singing bonus plus paying LT if he comes in?

[CQI13]

Jets have shown real interest in Tomlinson...I still say he should go to NE.

[Remianen]

I'm really having trouble understanding where you're coming from. About Jones' signing bonus, are you familiar with that concept at all? Signing bonuses are UP FRONT money (you sign, they give you a check). The only time in recent memory it wasn't is when Peyton signed his last contract. Jim Irsay was kinda hard up for cash at the time so Peyton took his signing bonus in installments. But for cap purposes, signing bonuses are PAID upfront but are prorated over the life of the contract. So a $10 million dollar signing bonus on a 5 year deal is paid UPFRONT but only counts for $2 million per year on the cap number. Long story short, the Jets aren't still paying Jones' signing bonus. It was paid on 07 when that contract was signed.

 

Derrick Brooks is an OLD player who excelled in ONE type of defense. He was the prototypical Cover 2 linebacker. There are few teams in the league who play that defense to the extent Tampa did (prior to Monte leaving). The Colts are one of those teams (though they don't run it quite as much as they did say 5 years ago). The knock on D. Brooks is his age and the wear on him, which would reduce his effectiveness (Cover 2 linebackers have to be FAST). AGE and WEAR is one reason Jones didn't get the interest (and money) you seem to think he deserved. No one wants to sign a worn down player to a blockbuster deal and then have their bodies quit on them. The examples of teams signing formerly great workers who didn't quite pan out is long (how 'bout you start with Jamal Lewis? Yes, decent performance with the Browns but was it anywhere near his Ravens era output?). How'd Shawn Alexander work outside of Seattle? And you even mentioning Thomas Jones in the same breath as Adrian Peterson is hilarious. You think they compare in any way, shape or form? No one has ever called Thomas Jones a once in a lifetime talent at his position. EVER. If you don't see the difference between a 30 year old running back whose performance is exceeded during the most important part of the year by his rookie backup and a 24 year old running back who has flirted with history his entire career (and been called a 'once in a lifetime talent' since his rookie season), I don't know what to tell you. No, the Vikings aren't going to cut Adrian Peterson because of his performance in one playoff game. Wanna know why? Familiarize yourself with the term 'upside' as it relates to sports and specifically young players.

 

And for the record, I'm a BRONCOS fan. I'm just not so much of a fan that I can't see the big picture and how BUSINESS impacts the game. If Thomas Jones is worth $5.8 mil a year, how much is Adrian Peterson worth? How much is Chris Johnson worth? How much is Ray Rice worth? How much is James Stewart or DeAngelo Williams worth?

 

About Cromartie, I said nothing of the sort and if you actually drew that inference from what I said, I don't see how. You're talking about how bad Cromartie was in a different system with different responsibilities, with different coaches, and different schemes. I'm telling you to take your eyes off the stat sheet and actually watch some film. Go look at what the Jets defense did with its corners. Go look at how the Ravens under Rex Ryan used their corners. As anyone who has played this game at any level over Pop Warner can tell you, there are many important things that occur on every play that do not show up on a box score. Tell me which stat covers one receiver throwing a pick on another receiver's defender, freeing that receiver to run free right into the free safety's grill. Point out to me the stat that tells when a blitzing corner confuses a quarterback enough for him to not see the outside linebacker shading on his hot route receiver? Cromartie is a Jet specifically because Rex Ryan wanted him. I'm guessing he's got an idea of how he's going to use him. I dunno about you, but I'm going to put my trust in one of the best defensive minds in the game over you. Cromartie's skillset fits what Rex likes to do in his defense. Period. You can talk about how much he sucks and how unmotivated he was in San Diego all you want. He's now on a defensive minded team that made it to the conference title game (beating him and his old team in the process), with a defensive minded head coach, and surrounded by veterans of this system now. I don't think motivation is going to be a problem.

 

Are you trying to refute what I said or prove my point for me? Because you didn't do the former but you sure as hell did the latter. I said 'the day of the feature back is long past' and you post that there are only 6 feature backs in the league. Um, thanks? Just because a team uses one back over another a bit more doesn't make that back a feature back. Maybe if I use the term 'workhorse', you'd understand it a bit better? It's kinda like saying just because a running back starts for a team, that makes him one of the league's best backs. No it doesn't. It doesn't even mean he's a starting caliber back. It just means he's the best that team has.

 

The only reason the Jets might've kept Jones onboard would be to avoid the cap charge of cutting him. Oops, no cap anymore so that's not a concern. The Jets seem to believe (and have reason to) that any running back with talent can be successful behind their line. Time will tell. However, Shonn proved that he's a starting caliber back in the playoffs. His performance basically sealed Jones' fate...unless he was willing to take a pay cut. You think the Jets are sweating Jones' signing bonus? Take a look at what the Panthers are dealing with. You wanna wonder why Jones was cut? Figure out why he was cut.

[GatorBait19]

It is upfront money, that is prorated through the life of the contract, which is why they so many people are cutting big contracts

 

and no, a feature back is the back a team uses as it's feature weapon in the run game, so a player like Ryan Grant who didn't hit your feature back number of atleast 300 carries is still a feature back, but the reason he doesn't fall into this in your case is because he is on a passing team, same goes with Forte, Mendenhall.

 

And you're right Cromartie is going to a defense minded coach, and you talk about watching game film, well go back to the Jets/Chargers game and tell me who the person was that missed the tackle on Greene take he broke for hmmm let's see 53 yards, I believe it was you're boy. and I never ever said Cromartie sucked, he is a talented player with lots of babies and lack of motivation, and you can say he'll have that motivation with Ryan but remember Rhodes was also pumped to have Ryan and it never worked out.

 

and once again you are taking Brooks to something else, I brought Brooks into this because you talked about Jones refusing to redo his deal, I said nothing about Brooks being cut a being a one system guy, he's far better than any Linebacker you have had (and don't say Elvis because wow, look what a system can do for a guy right). You want to talk about how he was good because of a system that's great, but when many in the league believe he is one of the top weak side linebackers to every play the game it doesn't matter system or not, he was talented

 

and I never said Jones was better than AP, that thought never even crossed my mind, but for a guy who doesn't get hurt, has rushed for 1000 yards each of the last 5 years, can block, and doesn't fumble the ball, well that still means he is talented, more than AP.... never..... someone I would give the ball to when it meant HANG ON yes

 

And you keep bringing up wear and tear, I agree with you on that, it takes it's affect on people every day. you get older you decline, oh and Shaun was on the decline while he was with the Seahawks

[GatorBait19]

Oh and on Chris Long's first 2 years vs Mario, Mario was still better and didn't take that long to catch on, neither did Elvis, or Rice, or Sapp, Jared Allen, or Peppers

[GatorBait19]

and if you could show where I said Jets are still paying Jones please, I can't remember saying that but I probably did

 

also if you could show me where I stated Jones was better than AP as well

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Singing bonus is paid up front Gator, pro-rated means the cap hit is spread, not the actual money. Not sure if you know that or not, not very clear what you meant there.