The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

Like I said, I think Silva might have his will to fight. It didn't look like he was trying all that hard in the Sonnen fight - and it's not because he was trying to coast by, because he certainly didn't. I think Silva has lost his fire. He's the best Middleweight in the UFC right now, and he knows it. But it seems like he's stuck in an emotional rut.

 

I'm not sure that I agree. For me, it seems that Silva, like so many other fighters before and since, came into the UFC, was put on a pedestal and lauded as the best thing since sliced bread. It just so happens that Silva might actually be the best thing since sliced bread, but my point is that everybody's time comes; Silva's is just lasting longer than most.

 

I don't think Silva has lost the fire...certainly not to the point whereby he's phoning-in his performances in the Octagon on purpose, I just think he's faced a couple of guys that he couldn't treat the same way that he treated Rich Franklin, Chris Leben and Forest Griffin. People said he'd lost the passion after Leites, only for him to come out and wreck Forest. Belfort is tailor-made for Anderson to annihilate; who's to say we won't see a similar performance to the ones that put him on the map in the UFC in that fight?

 

Another theory I have, which is a bit tinfoil hat I'll freely admit, is that Silva's management are having a detrimental impact on his career. Ed Soares runs a pretty tight ship with those guys by all accounts, and on more than one occasion, particularly with Anderson, I've got the sense that he's looking out for his own best interests as a 'super-agent' and a conduit for Brazilian fighters to the UFC.

 

First there was the whole 'phantom elbow injury' that kept appearing when the UFC threw around opponents that Soares didn't like, trying to get the UFC to match up middleweights for a chance to fight Silva while pursuing big money fights at 205 and heavyweight. Then he doesn't want Anderson to fight Vitor, and the elbow injury pops up again. Chael comes within two minutes of wiping the floor with him, and as soon as an immediate rematch is mentioned, Silva is (instantly) out until 2011 (with a bruised/cracked rib, seriously?) and all of a sudden Belfort is the fight they're after, or Belfort vs Sonnen, with Silva fighting the winner. Hmm.

 

As memory serves, Anderson seemed alot more enthusiastic back in the day when he was fighting all comers as and when he pleased.

[brashleyholland]

Early estimates are putting 117 at around 1 million buys (!!!)

 

That's an insane number. I'd assumed something like 600K, with anything above that being a major success, based on Anderson's track record. I sure hope that Chael Sonnen gets a piece of that pie.

 

To put that into context, Anderson's previously most selling card was 101 with 900k against Forrest where he co-mained to BJ - Florian.

 

...and to give that further context, that event was UFC 101, which benefited HUGELY from the spillover from 100, making this even more impressive.

 

So about a million people just saw not just one of the best fights I've ever seen but saw Anderson get pushed to the brink of defeat just to make a comeback in the fifth. I'm not sure if this is going to establish Anderson as an actual PPV draw but there's no way his appeal hasn't increased.

 

I'm not sure if it will have done a whole lot for Silva on his own, but a rematch between the two should be a big earner for both of them.

 

It also validates every single thing Chael had done to hype the card up. It's a shame that there's so few guys that are good at trash talking because clearly it works.

 

Absolutely correct, the biggest earners are always the best (American) talkers. I can only imagine we'll be seeing more of it from this point on...not sure if that's something I'm looking forward to or not though.

 

Also I imagine that it made the UFC much more interested in a rematch.

 

You knows it. A rematch, plus a Primetime series could easily see them do another 1m, if that number is indeed correct.

 

What I'd like to see: Sonnen kept on the shelf until Silva gets back. Maia vs Belfort, winners fight, losers fight.

[ampulator]

I'm not sure that I agree. For me, it seems that Silva, like so many other fighters before and since, came into the UFC, was put on a pedestal and lauded as the best thing since sliced bread. It just so happens that Silva might actually be the best thing since sliced bread, but my point is that everybody's time comes; Silva's is just lasting longer than most.

 

I don't think Silva has lost the fire...certainly not to the point whereby he's phoning-in his performances in the Octagon on purpose, I just think he's faced a couple of guys that he couldn't treat the same way that he treated Rich Franklin, Chris Leben and Forest Griffin. People said he'd lost the passion after Leites, only for him to come out and wreck Forest. Belfort is tailor-made for Anderson to annihilate; who's to say we won't see a similar performance to the ones that put him on the map in the UFC in that fight?

 

Another theory I have, which is a bit tinfoil hat I'll freely admit, is that Silva's management are having a detrimental impact on his career. Ed Soares runs a pretty tight ship with those guys by all accounts, and on more than one occasion, particularly with Anderson, I've got the sense that he's looking out for his own best interests as a 'super-agent' and a conduit for Brazilian fighters to the UFC.

 

First there was the whole 'phantom elbow injury' that kept appearing when the UFC threw around opponents that Soares didn't like, trying to get the UFC to match up middleweights for a chance to fight Silva while pursuing big money fights at 205 and heavyweight. Then he doesn't want Anderson to fight Vitor, and the elbow injury pops up again. Chael comes within two minutes of wiping the floor with him, and as soon as an immediate rematch is mentioned, Silva is (instantly) out until 2011 (with a bruised/cracked rib, seriously?) and all of a sudden Belfort is the fight they're after, or Belfort vs Sonnen, with Silva fighting the winner. Hmm.

 

As memory serves, Anderson seemed alot more enthusiastic back in the day when he was fighting all comers as and when he pleased.

Thanks for insight, but Silva seems... tired to me. He's tired of SOMETHING. He's either bored, he's either lacking motivation, or something else is affecting. Silva doesn't seem like the guy to burst out, and rather seems to keep it all in... and it's affecting him in ways.

 

It makes me wonder if he's acting out on purpose. Not necessarily against UFC or even Dana, but against something else.

[Daffanka]

What I'd like to see: Sonnen kept on the shelf until Silva gets back. Maia vs Belfort, winners fight, losers fight.

 

Replace Maia with Okami and I'm down (or make those two fight, Okami would win.) Okami's fights are hardly barn burners but even a theoretical Okami - Silva fight has to be better than an Anderson - Maia rematch.

 

Maia could maybe fight Bisping/Akiyama or Marquardt/Palhares.

 

e: I don't know if Anderson's done or anything like it. This is the first time he's fought a guy with a real, outstanding double with a very active top game. Shogun looked awful fighting Coleman in a fight where he was by his own admission 100%, plenty of wrestlers have made Fedor look bad for a round and so on. Anderson thrives in fights where his opponent is coming forward throwing punches and he always looks like a million bucks when that happens. This time he was fighting a wrestler.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Tell me if my logic is flawed but woudln't GSP pretty much take Silva down at will and grind out a decision? Or am I wrong in thinking GSP's takedown skills are as good or better then sonnen? I def. don't see Silva pulling out a sub like that one GSP. If I was a betting man I would have to put my money on GSP. He is a very smart fighter and very careful.

 

The Brock vs Cain vs Santos fights have me very excited. I has big time on the Santos bandwagon until the Roy fight exposed him some. I still think he will put it together but his time isn't now imo. I am now leaning towards Cain winning out here even though I will be pulling for "The next Big Thing".

 

I don't think anyone will ever question Roy Nelsons chin

 

UFC 118 looks like it will end the streak of good cards for them. Only fight I am looking forward too is Florian vs Maynard. Even if Maynard is one of the most boring fighters there is. I didn't care for Edgar/Penn 1 but would like Penn to win so Florian can win the belt from him. Don't want the cloud of

"oh he only won the title cause Penn didn't have it" crap. The Couture vs tony is a joke for a co-main event. Nothing good can come from that fight as it proves nothing. Guess I don't mind seeing Diaz getting knocked out by the Hand Grenade. It just looks like a really weak card after the stacked 117 where even the undercard was stacked.

 

Don't know if anyone here watches Around the horn or PTI but man every time anything MMA comes up they bury it. Other then the host of ATH that is. I guess older sports journlists can't stand the sport.

[Daffanka]

GSP isn't nearly a good a wrestler as Chael nor does he have the same kind of monster shot (although still a very good one.) He's a much, much better guard passer, his positional game is better and he doesn't give up triangles or leave arms in there for when he tries to escape.

 

GSP's stand up is also a lot better than Chael's. I liked that Chael threw straight punches and feinted with the takedowns but GSP's jab is pretty outstanding as far as MMA goes and he could definitely threaten Anderson with it.

 

I think GSP would win too but it'd be harder for him to get Anderson to the floor. If he did he'd repeatedly pass Anderson's guard and probably beat him up pretty badly.

[ampulator]

Tell me if my logic is flawed but woudln't GSP pretty much take Silva down at will and grind out a decision? Or am I wrong in thinking GSP's takedown skills are as good or better then sonnen? I def. don't see Silva pulling out a sub like that one GSP. If I was a betting man I would have to put my money on GSP. He is a very smart fighter and very careful.

 

The Brock vs Cain vs Santos fights have me very excited. I has big time on the Santos bandwagon until the Roy fight exposed him some. I still think he will put it together but his time isn't now imo. I am now leaning towards Cain winning out here even though I will be pulling for "The next Big Thing".

 

I don't think anyone will ever question Roy Nelsons chin

 

UFC 118 looks like it will end the streak of good cards for them. Only fight I am looking forward too is Florian vs Maynard. Even if Maynard is one of the most boring fighters there is. I didn't care for Edgar/Penn 1 but would like Penn to win so Florian can win the belt from him. Don't want the cloud of

"oh he only won the title cause Penn didn't have it" crap. The Couture vs tony is a joke for a co-main event. Nothing good can come from that fight as it proves nothing. Guess I don't mind seeing Diaz getting knocked out by the Hand Grenade. It just looks like a really weak card after the stacked 117 where even the undercard was stacked.

 

Don't know if anyone here watches Around the horn or PTI but man every time anything MMA comes up they bury it. Other then the host of ATH that is. I guess older sports journlists can't stand the sport.

The problem with Roy Nelson, to me, is his reach and cardio. His Cardio isn't THAT bad... hell, it's probably better than Shane Carwin's, plus, he knows how to pace himself. Still, he needs to work on it. However, his reach is something of problem. For guy his height and weight, he's got short arms. That's not an advantage, unless he decides to have very, very short range fisticuffs.

 

As for future cards, the thing is, UFC usually pairs winners against winners, losers against losers, fights that were so darn close they need a rematch (Rua/Machida), or other fights, for whatever reason, deserves a rematch (Sonnen/Silva).

 

So, unless they fast-track fights, I can't see any I really want to see right now.

 

In any case, the thing Cain Velasquez should be able to do is somewhat neutralize Brock Lesnar's ability for takedowns, considering they are both wrestlers. My curiosity is who has the better standup. Brock is stronger, but Cain is more accurate.

[brashleyholland]

I'm calling a certain Mr Couture on Monday evening for an interview on all things James Toney, UFC 118 and The Expendables.

 

Anyone have an interesting questions they want to throw out there?

[ProphetX]

yeah ask him how he sees his son faring in MMA thus far?

[Zoloftjunkie]

I would like to know if he is aiming for the lhw title. And if so why take this fight that would do him no good in the title picture and where a loss would be a huge setback. What really motivates him for this fight which doesn't really seem a real challenge for him.

 

Any cool manley stories from the set of the movie? Did they have any challenges they competed in for fun like arm wrestling or w/e.

[brashleyholland]

yeah ask him how he sees his son faring in MMA thus far?

 

Ryan is fighting on Friday (his pro debut) so I'm hoping it goes well so that I can avoid any awkward "Yeah, so your boy got trounced at the weekend..." moments :-p

[ProphetX]

Ryan is fighting on Friday (his pro debut) so I'm hoping it goes well so that I can avoid any awkward "Yeah, so your boy got trounced at the weekend..." moments :-p

heh yeah I know. But with his father being who he is and who he's fought I think Randy would give some interesting (if slightly biased) insight on how well he sees his son doing, especially in Strikeforce.

 

And didn't Randy end up in the EA MMA game?

[brashleyholland]

 

And didn't Randy end up in the EA MMA game?

 

Yup. On the cover no less.

 

 

In other news...Bellator!!!!

[MrCanada]

MMA was regulated today in Ontario, out of no where. Starting 2011.

 

Expect GSP vs. Koscheck to get bumped from December to January for the debut.

[brashleyholland]

MMA was regulated today in Ontario, out of no where. Starting 2011.

 

Expect GSP vs. Koscheck to get bumped from December to January for the debut.

 

A Jan date would be ideal if they can get it. They have a date at the Rogers Centre on hold for March...will be interesting to see if they hold off on Kos vs GSP for that long, especially as the last two seasons of TUF have ended without the originally planned coach fight.

 

They really can't do that card without GSP in the main event though. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

[Daffanka]

Hahahaha they've subtitled Toney in the 118 preview.

[Daffanka]

Big Nog is out of his fight with Mir. They slotted in Cro Cop so that's going to be depressing when Frank Mir has beaten a majority of the great Pride HWs.

 

Also WEC 50 is on tonight and it's a free card featuring two top bantamweights and a bunch of other really good fights. Jorgensen vs. Pickett is going to be really interesting.

[ampulator]

Big Nog is out of his fight with Mir. They slotted in Cro Cop so that's going to be depressing when Frank Mir has beaten a majority of the great Pride HWs.

 

Also WEC 50 is on tonight and it's a free card featuring two top bantamweights and a bunch of other really good fights. Jorgensen vs. Pickett is going to be really interesting.

I think it's just because a lot of the PRIDE guys are either getting older are have been in so many fights, it's starting to show.

 

Big Nog and Cro Cop are few of those people. At least Big Nog's twin brother still seems to be in good shape.

[Daffanka]

<p>Well Cruz - Benavidez wasn't as good as I thought it would be and Jorgensen would beat either man any given night. As would probably Pickett.</p><p> </p><p>

Jorgensen - Pickett absolutely ruled and you should watch it because Jorgensen is the future 135lbs king and Pickett is an Englishman who can wrestle which puts him with John Hathaway as Britain's best fighters.</p><p> </p><p>

Pettis - Roller also ruled pretty hard. Round 3 was awesome. I hope I can find some .gifs of those sweet TKD-ish kicks.</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<p>I can't wait for 118...</p><p> </p><p>

We're going to get to see BJ Penn over-commit on everything he does, and Frankie won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Not sure which round it ends in though, Edgar is very durable. I just don't think he's going to be able to deal with the king-sized beating that an angry BJ is going to put on him, and I see it ending with a Rear-naked.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm still sticking with my pick that James Toney is going to smash Couture. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Randy won, but my gut just says Toney and it's said it all along since fight was made. I just see Randy being too prideful of his Greco Roman that has dominated so many people, and making the mistake of clinching. That's where this fight ends if Couture can't shoot a double in his later years(and he was never that great with doubles anyway, different style). Toney is going to land some wicked shots, ala Carwin/Mir, and the ref's going to have to face the music. Toney vs. Lesnar, for as lopsided as it would be, would probably sell a million buys. Could see it now...</p><p> </p><p>

"8-1, and he the champion? Pssh in boxing he wouldn't even be talked about at the water cooler, kid. Brock Lesnar just an overgrown wrassler in a man's world." And so on and so forth in Toney's banter hilarity.</p><p> </p><p>

Maia over Miranda - easy sub</p><p>

Florian over Maynard - decision</p><p>

Diaz over Davis - decision</p><p> </p><p>

I hope Lauzon doesn't lose to Ruediger. That's all for now.</p>

[The Shape]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RingofHonorGuard" data-cite="RingofHonorGuard" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm still sticking with my pick that James Toney is going to smash Couture. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Randy won, but my gut just says Toney and it's said it all along since fight was made. I just see Randy being too prideful of his Greco Roman that has dominated so many people, and making the mistake of clinching. That's where this fight ends if Couture can't shoot a double in his later years(and he was never that great with doubles anyway, different style). Toney is going to land some wicked shots, ala Carwin/Mir, and the ref's going to have to face the music. Toney vs. Lesnar, for as lopsided as it would be, would probably sell a million buys. Could see it now...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> My gut's leaning in the same direction as well, it just feels like after all the upset Couture's pulled off he might be brought crashing down to earth with an even bigger one. No telling where his head is with all of the acting etc as well.</p><p> </p><p> Then again, Toney's hardly in his prime, but isn't it meant to be something like the last thing you lose is your punching power? LOL Couture will probably just school him after saying all this, but I won't be nearly as surprised if he doesn't as I think a lot of people, including perhaps inside the UFC, will be. And I doubt it'd be a disaster, it'd really tarnish Couture but the company as a whole could sure work with it.</p>

[Daffanka]

<p>I'M NOT POSTING THIS JUST TO BE CONTRARIAN OKAY</p><p> </p><p>

I think Edgar beats BJ again. Probably by decision but it's possible he slaps on a guillotine on a tired BJ who shoots for a takedown because he's getting outpointed agains on the feet.</p><p> </p><p>

Penn is a really good fighter but he's never displayed any significant offensive wrestling or striking ability. All his big victories have come when he hangs back, looking for that big punch and wearing them out with consistent counters and sprawls and I don't think he'll be able to do either against Edgar.</p><p> </p><p>

It's entirely possible that BJ manages to take Edgar down but I'm putting my faith in the guy who outwrestled Griffin pretty thoroughly.</p><p> </p><p>

Watch me eat my words when Edgar gets RNCd in the first. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I hope Toney beats Couture. I really, really hope so because it would be the funniest thing to ever happen in MMA. It's pretty unlikely though. Toney isn't a KO machine and he's the least mobile boxer I've ever seen and he gets away with it using things that don't work in MMA. One takedown and Toney's gonna tap to strikes within a minute.</p><p> </p><p>

Maia probably beats Miranda but one ugly haymaker and Maia's done for.</p><p> </p><p>

Whether Florian beats Maynard or not depends entirely on if Maynard decides to stop pretending he can box and just goes back to being a less active Jon Fitch. This probably won't happen so I'm going with Florian by points as well.</p><p> </p><p>

I don't care about Davis - Diaz. They should've given the card space to Pierce - Amilcar as both those guys are much better fighters.</p>

[Fantabulous]

Unless Toney hits the first punch he swings, Randy <strong>is</strong> taking him down. And once the fight hits the ground, it is all over for Toney.

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Unless Toney hits the first punch he swings, Randy <strong>is</strong> taking him down. And once the fight hits the ground, it is all over for Toney.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think you are severely overestimating Couture's speed. And Toney may only have a puncher's chance, but I mean... the guy -is- a puncher for a living. Don't be delusional... Couture himself has acknowledged that he's probably going to have to eat some punches if he wants the takedown.</p>

[Fantabulous]

Randy might eat some small punches but Toney's one real chance of winning is to hit the big KO and hit it very quickly. If the fight goes any length of time, whatever chance Toney has of winning gets smaller and smaller because Randy gets to use tools that Toney has no fight experience with under rules that Toney also has no fight experience with. The only way that Randy doesn't take Toney down is if Toney gets that big KO punch in. Otherwise, Randy is taking him down and winning the fight.