The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[d_w_w]

Is this where people finally understand that Greg Jackson is a bad game planner and that GSP isn't his product at all?

 

Based on what I saw/heard at Jackson's, Akiyama didn't really follow through with Jackson's advice, but I think it'd be a stretch to say that Jackson really gave him a game plan (Akiyama worked on cardio [which I guess was maybe slightly better?], on leg kicks with Winklejohn [which he didn't really use] and using aggressive flurries when Bisping circled to Akiyama's right and/or backed into the cage [which he didn't really do either])

 

Edit: To be fair, I wasn't there all of the time (work and all), nor do I make it a habit to try to listen in or anything. But it still seemed pretty clear what they were working on during the afternoon sessions. And from my perspective, it seemed like Akiyama just wanted to go out and try to land a big one punch KO, which didn't seem to be the focus of training, and the folks that I watched with generally agreed.

 

And to say that Jackson is a bad game planner seems, IMO, a bit silly, as is the idea that you can neglect Jackson's role in GSP's fight planning (GSP keeps him around and speaks highly of him, so he must buy into it, yes?). I'm a bit bummed out when he gets more credit/grief than the actual fighters, but the fact that he has been able to pull together the group that he has (that is, fighters seek him out), the fact that most of them speak highly of his coaching, and the overall success and win record for Jackson's fighters kind of speak for themselves, I think.

[Daffanka]

He told GSP to strike with Hardy when he was taking him down at will.

 

Like, that actually happened.

[xspudx]

Depressing as **** to see Hardy get twatted and Hathaway losing all his momentum. And worst of all, Bisping won.

 

The only silver lining for that event is that Spencer Fisher isn't cut.

[Self]

A lot of really cool entrances on that show I thought. Two Americans played their heel roles perfectly, one with the Springsteen song, the other with... something very American. Yankee smugness getting our goats. Top draw.

 

Akiyama's entrance was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in MMA. The music. The bowing. The hand holding. The gi. He was so unique. Such presence. Even if he was a boring fighter (which he totally isn't) I'd be interested in his next fight.

 

Dan Hardy won me over too. Never liked him before, do now. His enthusiasm was infectious.

[TheKenwyne]

A lot of really cool entrances on that show I thought. Two Americans played their heel roles perfectly, one with the Springsteen song, the other with... something very American. Yankee smugness getting our goats. Top draw.

 

Akiyama's entrance was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in MMA. The music. The bowing. The hand holding. The gi. He was so unique. Such presence. Even if he was a boring fighter (which he totally isn't) I'd be interested in his next fight.

 

Dan Hardy won me over too. Never liked him before, do now. His enthusiasm was infectious.

 

Sexyama ususally does great things with his entrance. If you enjoyed that check out some of the classic Sakuraba entrances - the guy's former pro wrestling experience really shows through with his showmanship there

 

I especially enjoyed Hardy's interplay with Buffer during the intros - made me lol. And to quote the guy standing next to me - 'wow his hair is awesome!'.

 

Good to see Condit finally getting his due - he came to the UFC all hyped up as WEC 170lbs champion, lost a razor-thin split decision to Martin Kampmann and disappeared off our radars. I'm glad he's getting the recognititon he deserves- he's an upper-mid level fighter, borderline title contender I might dare to add - even if I'm a little upset he did it by defeating one of my favourite fighters in Hardy.

[RingofHonorGuard]

People on other message boards have been mocking Carlos Condit for his staredowns(or his facial expression in general) as of late. I've seen like a million fighters pull off intense staredowns, and most of their eyes just don't have any real intensity to it.

 

There's Wanderlei Silva/Carlos Condit, then everyone else in my opinion. Condit's moniker couldn't be any more fitting because his eyes look piercing as hell.

[jesterx7769]

Since there's a lot of UK'ers, who all do you want Bisping to fight next? The MW division is pretty booked up at the moment so he may be waiting until the UFC goes back to the UK in the spring once the upcoming matches play out (that is just me guessing they will go to the UK 3 times next year)

[jesterx7769]

No, there WERE three judges. They all judged it 28-28, as did I.

 

You're right, I looked up a play by play. I thought I heard Buffer say "Both judges scored the fight.." but I just misheard.

[Daffanka]

<p>It feels very, very strange to have Lesnar - Velasquez just looming around the corner.</p><p> </p><p>

I haven't been this excited for a fight in a while.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It feels very, very strange to have Lesnar - Velasquez just looming around the corner.<p> </p><p> I haven't been this excited for a fight in a while.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. I got back from the very messy and hectic weekend that was UFC 120 a couple of days ago and have been struck down with man flu ever since (made worse by the fact that my Mrs is currently in Cali so I'm having to make my own chicken soup and tea!), so I've not really got into the build-up as much as I would have liked. </p><p> </p><p> That said, now that the fight it dawning, it's really hitting home. I think in terms of the skills of the fighters and their positions in the heavyweight rankings, this is one of the most relevant and important heavyweight MMA fights ever. It's right up there with Fedor/Nogueira and Fedor/CroCop fights, probably the most relevant in the UFC's HW division since Barnett/Couture waay back (in terms of deciding a number 1 HW). </p><p> </p><p> I still think that Fedor beats Brock more often than Brock beats Fedor, but I can't entertain F-to-tha-yodor as the baddest man on the planet while Brock is knocking off all these top guys. </p><p> </p><p> As for a winner...I'm genuinely stumped. Cain seemingly has all the tools, more-so than Carwin. But it disturbs me that he couldn't finish Kongo. As a counterpoint, he then went on to stop two guys with only 5 strike-based stoppages losses in a combined 78 bouts in his next two outings. Still don't know if that sells me. I think the Vanilla Gorilla will take it. </p><p> </p><p> Also picking Kampmann for the upset (of sorts). Its a tough fight for both guys, but the more I think about it the more I'm with Kampmann spoiling the party. Sanchez to get back on track, Gonzaga to derail Schaub and Hamill to...ah you know what, I just don't care about that fight.</p>

[Self]

<p>I'm a little sick of all the hype for Cain/Brock to be honest. All of the talk I'm hearing about tactics and strategies is... It's the same thing over and over and over again. "Cain's more skilled" versus "Brock's bigger" rinse and repeat, ad nauseum. Almost getting go-away heat from me.</p><p> </p><p>

Still, totally gonna watch the fight. No prediction, as it could easily go either way, but I'll be cheering on Brock as always. I mean, he once superplexed Big Show and broke the ring. How could he possibly lose? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think the Vanilla Gorilla will take it. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is genius haha.</p><p> </p><p> I'm picking Cain, Kampmann, Thiago, Gonzaga and Hammill. Not going to write an essay to justify these picks, I just think Cain is better at everything (but he might lose the first and second round) and Shields' terrible kickboxing and mediocre offensive wrestling is going to come back to bite him against one of the most underrated guys in the WW division. Paulo Thiago is an actual welterweight and has a good grappling game, Gonzaga is good when he wants to and Hammill's skull hasn't cracked fifty times in his career, softness from being deaf aside.</p><p> </p><p> And obviously Yvel to beat Madsen.</p>

[TheKenwyne]

<p>Jon Jones said Cain was going to win at the Fan Expo. If it's good enough for Bones...</p><p> </p><p>

In all seriousness, I'm taking Brock. Cain would be perfect for the Cruiserweight/205-240lbs divsion when/if they get round to making it, but he's just a little on the small side to be taking on goliaths such as Lesnar and Carwin. And if he loses the first two rounds, as Daffanka suggests above, I'll bet his face will be something resembling paste and his brains rather scrambled - the only way Lesnar's winning rounds in this fight is by grabbing Cain and either sitting on him or squishing him against the fence. If he stands with Cain he'll get Carwin'd again.</p><p> </p><p>

But all that said, lesnar.</p><p> </p><p>

Rest of the main card?</p><p> </p><p>

Shields, Thiago, Schaub and Hammill.</p>

[jesterx7769]

I'm actually not really excited for Lesnar/Cain at all as I don't see what Cain is really bringing that is all that different and it isn't as if he has been bulldozing people to get here, while he has beaten some quality names he hasn't even really beaten a top 10 HW, Kongo is def. not (already addressed my displeasure of him earlier) and Nog is def. not himself, I think it was BH who said he fought in Australia because they didnt know if the US would sanction b/c of his eye, so unfortunately I see Lesnar eventually taking him down and I'll say he goes for another submission. I can see Cain maybe outstriking Brock with his quickness here and there but I dont think it will be enough to catch him standing with a quick KO and that Lesnar will eventually take him down. I will be rooting for Cain not out of Brock hate but just b/c I like the idea of a dominate champ losing so he can build himself back up.

 

Rest of card:

 

Want shields but I'm in agreement that I can see Kampann winning.

I say Diego gets back on track, hopefully or I will feel bad for him since he had the dominate string of fights.

Schaub just b/c I don't like Gonzaga

Hammill, I think Ortiz is done and has been and I am a believer in ring rust and while Hammill has been out Ortiz has been out forever.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Big fights on Bellator tonight...actually its on now. But my post has to do with the Olympics. Just read something about Dana White talking about MMA as a olympic sport and how he wants it to happen. But if it was it seemed he would not want his fighters fighting in it against other fighters in orgs like Strikeforce and such. Unless he would never intend for his big name fighters to be in it? dunno how all that would work.

[ampulator]

Here's the problem. Competitively speaking, there should be a split in the Heavyweight Division. The problem is... well, there isn't enough talent to do it. I bet we will see a filler division between Welterweight and Middleweight, and between Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight, before we ever will see a split in the Heavyweight division. There's simple not enough people, especially talented people, to make a division.

[jesterx7769]

Big fights on Bellator tonight...actually its on now. But my post has to do with the Olympics. Just read something about Dana White talking about MMA as a olympic sport and how he wants it to happen. But if it was it seemed he would not want his fighters fighting in it against other fighters in orgs like Strikeforce and such. Unless he would never intend for his big name fighters to be in it? dunno how all that would work.

 

I think it would work just fine without big names since there is no way you could consistently have big names fighting in it and also the Olympics isn't really about star power at all unlike the UFC. The big names would have to clear their schedules like a year in advance to guarantee perfect health. I think it would work just fine with amateurs or even pros that are not tied to contracts i.e. take an Olympic contract instead. I think this would also help the sport grow because then organizations like the UFC, Strikeforce, Bellator, Dream, could sign Gold medal winners and they would instantly gain recognition.

 

I def. think the talent is there for a really good turn out, the problem I have with it is the injury factor. The Olympics are only about two to three weeks, the 2012 games run from July 27th to August 12th. So how many times are you going to have guys fight in that short of time frame? What if it is an all out war and someone cannot fight? I think this would have to be like a year long process and only display the finals for the weight classes during the actual Olympics live (you of course could show the qualifying matches that were recorded earlier in the year), after all other sports do similar elimination type things for seedings and what not. But still, injuries become the biggest problem since its such a dangerous sport but I think its worth a try even with toned down rules.

 

edit: I think a good trial run approach would be to try and do something like the Goodwill games or a world cup of MMA between a select group of countries. For example take Japan, Canada, US, and UK since those seems to be the most popular areas, maybe France/Germany/Netherlands/ Korea as well, Name a coach for each country who would pick one fighter for each weight class be represented and run the mini-tournament over the next six months to a year aka Bellator style. I think this would be similar to the format the Olympics would need but it would be a slow injection with room for trial and error.

[jesterx7769]

Here's the problem. Competitively speaking, there should be a split in the Heavyweight Division. The problem is... well, there isn't enough talent to do it. I bet we will see a filler division between Welterweight and Middleweight, and between Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight, before we ever will see a split in the Heavyweight division. There's simple not enough people, especially talented people, to make a division.

 

While I was totally opposed to a "cruiserweight" division before and I think White is opposed to it, I actually can see one coming to in the next say 5-10 years with MMA's growth. The reason being that long is right now like you said the talent isn't there from the big guy standpoint at least, Lesnar was really the first big 265 lb man of his kind that wasn't a big slouch like Syliva or a big fat guy that could be easily out done technically by a smaller guy: see Fedor vs. Choi. However with MMA's popularity growing college HW wrestlers can now make the career choice to go into MMA, so instead of hearing how Aaron Simpson is such a great Arizona State wrestler...13 years ago... we will be hearing how X just won the HW NCAA a year or two ago. Also I imagine a lot of huge football players that do not make it in the NFL will now transition to MMA after college.

 

A good example I think for this would be Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. He was a starting DE who hurt his knee leaving out any possibility of an NFL draft prospect, played in the CFL then decided to go into wrestling simply because of his family. What if a big athletic 6'4 255 guy like that had MMA to go into where he could make millions? So I really believe the future holds a breeding ground for Lesnar/Carwin HW's instead of the 225 Couture mold and we will either see A) No HW's under 230/240 and they all just cut to 205, or there will be so many 230ish guys they create a division.

 

Edit: 20 more minutes to kill at work so figured I would try to estimate the CW and HW divisions

 

Cruiserweight, lets say 230/235 limit

Werdum,

Fedor,

Dos Santos

Nog

Arlovski

Cain

Couture

Yvel

Kongo

Pat Berry

Cro Cop

Coleman

 

Heavyweight

Lesnar

Carwin

Mir

Overeem

Big Foot

Barnett

Nelson

Rogers

Rothwell

Schaub

Gonzalez

Madsen

Travis Browne

Sylvia

Buentello

Hardonik

 

This was just my quick run down of who I could think of in my head and I threw a few guys in at CW that I think would cut to it or prefer to fight at that weight instead of 205 since they were small HW's before.

[Daffanka]

MMA Olympics is a terrible idea and should never be implemented.

 

It's gonna be MMA with knockdown rules (Shooto represent), no elbows, bigger gloves, head guards and probably no ground and pound.

[EddieFnG]

Since there's a lot of UK'ers, who all do you want Bisping to fight next? The MW division is pretty booked up at the moment so he may be waiting until the UFC goes back to the UK in the spring once the upcoming matches play out (that is just me guessing they will go to the UK 3 times next year)

 

Not a UK'er, just a huge Bisping fan, Demian Maia is a fighter I'd like to see him up against, personally, surprisingly a name that hasn't been thrown in the hat that much.

[The Shape]

list

 

And on top of that think of how stacked the LHW division is, guys like Bones would surely be more inclined to move up. Not sure how I feel on it but it is a massive gap between divisions.

 

Lesnar by 3rd round TKO.

Shields by 2nd round sub.

Ortiz by decision.

Sanchez by decision.

Schaub by first round KO.

[Daffanka]

Not a UK'er, just a huge Bisping fan, Demian Maia is a fighter I'd like to see him up against, personally, surprisingly a name that hasn't been thrown in the hat that much.

 

Maia's fighting Kendall Grove on the TUF 12 finale which is a rare case of Grove fighting someone who doesn't have the tools to exploit his fragile, fragile chin.

 

I could definitely see the winner of that vs. Bisping though.

[ampulator]

I'm don't know Kendall Grove well. Maia reminds me of a classic BJJ user, though... he is great on the ground. Problem is, he has no almost no tools of getting there because of cross-training in wrestling. His problem isn't striking, but wrestling, if you ask me.

 

Honestly, if Sonnen ever gets back in the mix, and Maia rises up, he will be a BAD matchup for Sonnen.

[The Shape]

I'm don't know Kendall Grove well. Maia reminds me of a classic BJJ user, though... he is great on the ground. Problem is, he has no almost no tools of getting there because of cross-training in wrestling. His problem isn't striking, but wrestling, if you ask me.

 

Honestly, if Sonnen ever gets back in the mix, and Maia rises up, he will be a BAD matchup for Sonnen.

 

Well their previous match would certainly suggest that lol, after seeing that I really don't want them anywhere near each other again...

[majesty95]

I think Bisping needs a Top 10 fight now, which Grove is not if he wins. I would acually like to see Bisping vs Marquardt/Okami loser or Wanderlei again.