The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[ampulator]

Damn, Boetsch, what a come back.

 

Edit Bader's GASSING OUT!

[Guest codey]

Looks like Bader made quite a bit tonight, as did the (apparently) few that bet on him!

[ampulator]

Looks like Bader made quite a bit tonight, as did the (apparently) few that bet on him!

Good for him and the people that bet on him! But in all honesty, he's going to run into wall at LHW. He might need to move up, because his cardio was almost as bad as Page's.

[damonster]

WTF!!!! Edger won that fight, should be Edgar vs Bendo 2.

[LoNdOn]

WTF!!!! Edger won that fight, should be Edgar vs Bendo 2.

 

Nope. Good fight, but Edgar didn't win it.

[Blackman]

Sweet card in retrospect and it delivered.

 

Btw that was some sexy takedown r2 from Sexiyama. Still had me excited. Too bad he didn't show the determination to take the match. My respect for Shields is increasing still.

 

And I think I heard of a lot of Darth Bader...breathing heavily? What's up with that.

[bigtplaystew]

Damage shouldnt win fights when it comes to the scorecard. Damage helps you finish a guy, past that, screw damage. It's meaningless. Fights are scored by a set list of criteria. I'm a big Edgar fan so with my eyes, when the 5th round ended, my heart told me Edgar did more to win even though he looked more beat up.

 

Then I checked out fightmetric:

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/henderson-vs-edgar-official-ufc.html

 

Fightmetric isn't perfect. But it does give a tangible readout of the abstract sport of MMA. And according to fightmetric, Benson won pretty well.

 

I mean Frankie got more takedowns, but little was done with them. Plus, he got 5 takedowns but 7 were stuffed. As much as I hate to say it (being an Edgar fan), the judges probably got it right this time.

 

Very close fight. Very entertaining fight. Ben Henderson is a warrior and I'm really happy for him. I'm a fan of his too, and if you know his family's story you really can't NOT be a fan on some level.

 

Here's hoping Frankie reels off a couple big wins and we get a rematch down the road. But 155 is too stacked for Frankie to get the instant rematch in my opinion.

[LoNdOn]

Damage shouldnt win fights when it comes to the scorecard. Damage helps you finish a guy, past that, screw damage. It's meaningless. Fights are scored by a set list of criteria. I'm a big Edgar fan so with my eyes, when the 5th round ended, my heart told me Edgar did more to win even though he looked more beat up.

 

Then I checked out fightmetric:

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/henderson-vs-edgar-official-ufc.html

 

Fightmetric isn't perfect. But it does give a tangible readout of the abstract sport of MMA. And according to fightmetric, Benson won pretty well.

 

I mean Frankie got more takedowns, but little was done with them. Plus, he got 5 takedowns but 7 were stuffed. As much as I hate to say it (being an Edgar fan), the judges probably got it right this time.

 

Edgar will bounce back. With the heart and determination that man has, I wouldn't write him out at his own funeral.

Very close fight. Very entertaining fight. Ben Henderson is a warrior and I'm really happy for him. I'm a fan of his too, and if you know his family's story you really can't NOT be a fan on some level.

 

Here's hoping Frankie reels off a couple big wins and we get a rematch down the road. But 155 is too stacked for Frankie to get the instant rematch in my opinion.

 

I am one of the seemingly minority, who scored Edgar/Penn I in favour of Edgar. I also scored the second Maynard fight in his favour by a round (although I could see it being given as a draw). Edgar did not beat Henderson. Bendo beat him in every department from what I could see.

 

Edgar will bounce back. With the heart and determination that man has, I wouldn't count him out at his own funeral.

[Fantabulous]

Henderson clearly won the main event. He outstruck Edgar, outworked Edgar, dictated the action and did far more damage. I really don't see how you can argue against that and claim Edgar won. Henderson/Pettis II looks to be where they're going and I can't wait. UFC 144 was a great show from beginning to end. You had a sick KO, slick submissions, a great comeback and just lots of skill on display all night long. I can see this one winning Card of the Year.

[The Shape]

lol @ Dana claiming Frankie won, when in the past he's been like "when it's close, damage is all that matters."

 

 

Incredible heart from Frankie again but he can't sustain a career taking this much damage, needs to drop down.

[CoutureLegend]

The fight was really close, but i had Henderson winning 3-2. No idea how some people can say Edgar was robbed. Sucks for him that he probably won't get a rematch but when you have other guys waiting in line for there shot, then they should get there opportunity first.

 

What i am really surprised by is the number of people who actually thought Akiyama beat Shields! I just don't see any reason how you can give that fight to Akiyama, unless you were influenced by Rogans biased commentary. You can't win a fight stuffing takedowns & landed a few flashy judo throws. Shields out-worked him & out-struck him all night, i had him winning 30-27 in a fight that wasn't even close in my book.

 

Hioki was impressive & i thought Okami looked fantastic before the Boetsch comeback.

[bigtplaystew]

I think they should offer him Aldo. Henderson/Pettis II is a much tastier rematch for Benson than one with Edgar. Aldo's kinda cleared out his division so I mean a fight with Frankie isn't out of the question. The only issue is you're giving the shot to a guy coming off the loss... hmm...

 

So maybe give Poirier the next shot at Aldo, then have that winner fight the winner of a Frankie/Hatsu Hioki fight or something like that.

 

I don't understand the "lol @ dana" stuff though. The guy knows there's money in a rematch if need be.

[Target Practice]

Heh, alright, alright guys... Bader was definitely struggling a bit in that third round. Er... maybe it was... erm... the jetlag. Yeah, the jetlag. Definitely that.

Anyway, what an excellent card - it had everything.

 

Personally, I had Henderson winning 48-47 - Edgar winning 1 & 5, Ben winning 2, 3 and 4. Having said that, the only round I was totally certain about was the second - depending on what the judges were looking for, those scores could have been anything.

I felt sorry for Frankie, as he did land more strikes and takedowns, but for my count, he only really hurt Henderson once, and that was in the fifth, and Henderson recovered quickly. Henderson was doing plenty of damage, and that upkick in the second really came close to ending the fight.

 

As for the other fights, amazing comeback from Boetsch, but he was getting utterly outclassed by Okami. Bader dominated Jackson, who did nothing to change my opinion that he's not got much left to offer other than name value.

Of everyone, I was actually most impressed with Vaughan Lee in the prelims - he looked awesome against Kid Yamamoto - did damage on his feet, and as soon as it went down to the ground, that transition from the triangle to armbar was seriously impressive. I reckon he could potentially have a run in the Bantamweight division in him.

[Anderz]

Tim Boetsch just robbed me of £54! :@

 

Put £1.50 on a 5-fight accumulator.. Shields, Hunt, Bader and Bendo came in.. but Boetsch couldnt stay down!

 

great night of fights.. I nearly put Pettis and Hioki on to make it a 7-fight.. and Im glad I didnt as I would be fuming right now..

 

Bendo vs Pettis 2 has got to be the next title fight.. its got a brilliant backstory to it and you know theyll put on a corker..

 

I do think Frankie should drop down to 145.. maybe give him a fight to get him a win under his belt before giving him the Aldo fight.. maybe give us Aldo vs Hioki and Edgar vs Mendes?

 

I dont know.. Im just gutted that Boetsch robbed me

[bigtplaystew]

Frankie actually didn't land more strikes than Henderson in any round. The first it was basically dead even. But from then on, Henderson landed more in rounds 2-5.

 

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/henderson-vs-edgar-official-ufc.html

 

Close fight, but Henderson definitely outpointed him.

[Target Practice]

Huh. I stand corrected.

 

Either way, it was a great fight, and Frankie did everything he could to hold on to the belt but ultimately it was a featherweight fighting a big lightweight, and Henderson's size and strength made the difference, and I think he's head and shoulders above anyone else in the Lightweight division - the difference between Henderson now and Henderson in the WEC is huge, and I can't see Pettis getting anywhere close this time - Guida showed that can be shut down and controlled with decent wrestling. As long as Henderson is smart enough not to try and strike with him for extended periods, I can't see anything other than Henderson winning comfortably.

[bigtplaystew]

Yea man I agree with you. I think Frankie was actually just defeated. That fight could have gone 10 rounds. Frankie wasnt going down but he didn't have enough for Henderson.

[Target Practice]

Oh, apparently Compustrike disagreed with fightmetric regards the striking, saying that Edgar outstruck Henderson (http://compustrike.com/wp/index.php/compustrike-live-stats-ufc-144/ - you'll need to log in/register).

 

Either way, it's kind of a moot point, Henderson won that fight. Not by much, but he did. Frankie could probably be legitimately upset that he's unlikely to be offered a rematch, particularly after having to rematch BJ Penn after a much, much more clear-cut decision, not to mention having to face Gray Maynard twice as well.

On the other hand, it looks like Dana is implying pretty strongly that there's a title shot for him against Aldo if he wants it. Does he drop to 145 now? For me it makes sense - I reckon he's got a better chance of beating Aldo than he has Henderson.

[Fantabulous]

Frankie isn't dropping down to 145 any time soon. The main reason being that he doesn't want to; he likes fighting at his natural body weight and feels his not needing to cut weight gives him an advantage. Until his giving up weight causes major hassles and blocks his return to the top, he isn't moving classes so talk of any Edgar/Aldo fight is rather pointless. Vaughan Lee looked good against Yamamoto but you can't gauge his ability based on that because Yamamoto is shot. Lee was brought in specifically to give Yamamoto a win and Yamamoto couldn't do it. His time has gone and it really has been for a while, so looking good against him doesn't prove anything other than Lee can beat a guy long past his prime.

[damonster]

Gotta say, most memorable moment had to be lee submitting Kid, I thought he was going to retire their.

[bigtplaystew]

Until his giving up weight causes major hassles and blocks his return to the top, he isn't moving classes so talk of any Edgar/Aldo fight is rather pointless.

 

Well some think losing a huge title fight via unanimous decision might hinder one's ride to the top.

 

Either way, Frankie's camp is now saying he's not dropping weight and wants his immediate rematch. Which he almost certainly won't get.

 

http://www.mmaweekly.com/frankie-edgar-not-dropping-to-145lbs-wants-immediate-rematch-with-henderson

 

Of course, we all have been around the MMA game for awhile and what a guy says in the hours directly after his fight vs weeks or months down the road can be very different indeed. It's not unrealistic to think Frankie's going down to 145 sooner than later.

 

Frankie is legitimately a fight or two away at the much-thinner 145 title hunt than he is at 155. If they tell him he's a win or two away from a title fight at 145 vs the several wins he may be away at 155, my logic tends to go with the idea of him dropping down.

[ampulator]

Frankie isn't dropping down to 145 any time soon. The main reason being that he doesn't want to; he likes fighting at his natural body weight and feels his not needing to cut weight gives him an advantage. Until his giving up weight causes major hassles and blocks his return to the top, he isn't moving classes so talk of any Edgar/Aldo fight is rather pointless. Vaughan Lee looked good against Yamamoto but you can't gauge his ability based on that because Yamamoto is shot. Lee was brought in specifically to give Yamamoto a win and Yamamoto couldn't do it. His time has gone and it really has been for a while, so looking good against him doesn't prove anything other than Lee can beat a guy long past his prime.

His face become hamburger in both his fights against Maynard, and somewhat in his first fight against Penn, now his face becomes hamburger AGAIN against Henderson.

 

For his own health, he needs to go down. If he ends up fighting a much bigger guy that match Edgar's speed and agility somewhat, like Bendo, he's going to get hurt, bad.

[The Shape]

Absolutely ridiculous for him to suggest an immediate rematch. BJ got one because he's BJ Penn and the first fight was much more disputable than this one. Maynard got one because it was a freakin draw. Edgar has gone down somewhat in my estimation with the aftermath of this fight.

[Fantabulous]

It's not unrealistic to think Frankie's going down to 145 sooner than later.

 

Frankie is legitimately a fight or two away at the much-thinner 145 title hunt than he is at 155. If they tell him he's a win or two away from a title fight at 145 vs the several wins he may be away at 155, my logic tends to go with the idea of him dropping down.

Except he has repeatedly said that he has no desire to go down to 145. This isn't something he only talked about post-fight. This is something he has said for a long time. I'm not sure what kind of logic you're using, but normal logic says you go with what a guy has been saying consistently over the course of time and has never wavered from. Equally comical is the idea he may be several wins away from a title fight at 155. If they do go with Pettis as the first challenger against Henderson, Edgar probably gets the winner of Diaz/Miller and go from there. However they go, Edgar dominated Penn, had a much vaunted second and third fights with Maynard and lose the title in what was, on paper, a close fight. They're not keeping Edgar away from the title for long with how they see him. Again, that's just normal logic and common sense, so your mileage will vary.

 

His face become hamburger in both his fights against Maynard, and somewhat in his first fight against Penn, now his face becomes hamburger AGAIN against Henderson.

 

He only lost one of those fights, and calling his face hamburger after those fights is more than a slight exaggeration. Evan Tanner after the Franklin fights is hamburger, which Edgar's face wasn't close to. He had a one closed eye and a broken nose from an upkick, which doesn't happen a whole lot. He took some heavy shots in those fights, but hamburger? No. Not even close.

 

What you or I think he 'should do' in regard to going down in weight is irrelevant. Edgar has made his position very clear about going down in weight; he doesn't want to do it and has no desire to anytime soon. The fact he feels he won the fight, and probably still does, makes it even more unlikely he'll move down

 

I don't know why that hasn't sunk in for either of you.

[ampulator]

What you or I think he 'should do' in regard to going down in weight is irrelevant. Edgar has made his position very clear about going down in weight; he doesn't want to do it and has no desire to anytime soon. The fact he feels he won the fight, and probably still does, makes it even more unlikely he'll move down

 

I don't know why that hasn't sunk in for either of you.

Why hasn't it sunk in for you that this is a DISCUSSION board? "We don't need to talk about this." So what if I do talk about it? What's so wrong about that? Am I not allowed to be concerned for someone's health?

 

Maybe I should say "Screw Frankie Edgar, I love it when his brain gets rattled by bigger guys and his face is bloodied up, and when his nose is shattered in a million pieces!" Is that what you want me to say? Will that make you happy? Will it be your enjoyment that I only talk about the things you want me to talk about, and talk it in your favor?