The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[bigtplaystew]

Or instead of cancelling 151 as a whole, its never gonna exist and just move onto 152. I mean they could've just change 152 to 151 and move everyone like their doing. But hey I don't run the UFC.

 

On a side not, Machida bailed and now Vitor Belfort is stepping in to face Jon Jones at 152, and Anderson Silva offered to fight at 205 to save 151, but it was too late.

 

Nobody is really to blame, as an injury ruined everything, and Jon thought like a rational fighter instead of a true champion, and the UFC obviously couldn't figure something out and collapsed and cancelled an entire event. I'm intrigued by the Belfort Jones match up. I wanna see how Jones can fare against the fast hands of Vitor.

 

 

Sir, I respectfully disagree. A rational fighter that just signed a Nike deal and looks poised to launch into a level of sports stardom that transcends MMA would b this short sighted. He should have recognized that all of this bad press that surrounds him bitching out of a fight with a dude who some would say lost his last two fights. He would have destroyed Sonnen in seconds.

[Blackman]

Ok, so let me get this straight:

 

UFC forces fighters to run through a 'ty-pages thick contract, and it has absolutely no mention of the fact that they should fight whoever the employer chooses to? You're kidding right?

 

Normally this would be "unwillingness to work". I understand his motives though, but it's just wrong to so many people.

 

Would fighting Sonnen be high risk, after what - or better, who - he's been through, and given the context? Sure, Sonnen has nothing to lose, but there are people who actually do. I'm looking at his fellow fighters on the card, especially the prelims.

[brashleyholland]

Ok, so let me get this straight:

 

UFC forces fighters to run through a 'ty-pages thick contract, and it has absolutely no mention of the fact that they should fight whoever the employer chooses to? You're kidding right?

 

 

Contracts and bout agreements are separate things. Many UFC contracts stipulate that you can turn down your first opponent but have to take the second one offered to you. I don't know if Jones' contract has that clause - I'm leaning towards 'no' though as he's one of the 'elite' guys they have on the books and has a powerful management team behind him.

 

Even if there was a clause that said "You have to fight whoever we say, whenever we say" how are you going to enforce that? You can't force a human being to fight, any more than you can force him to stack shelves in a shop, paint houses or sell insurance. You can fire him if he breaks a clause in his contract, maybe even get some money out of him...but you can't force him to fight someone he doesn't want to fight.

[Blackman]

I guess that is true. And the way it works in this business, people who have the credentials get the power. Firing a champ isn't an option, unless it's really over the top.

[J-Money]

Sir, I respectfully disagree. A rational fighter that just signed a Nike deal and looks poised to launch into a level of sports stardom that transcends MMA would b this short sighted. He should have recognized that all of this bad press that surrounds him bitching out of a fight with a dude who some would say lost his last two fights. He would have destroyed Sonnen in seconds.

 

He may have destroyed Sonnen, he may have not. Yes by him turning down the fight his endorsement deal wiith Nike is gonna look foolish on Nike's part now, but what about everyother fighter that got offered to fight Jones and turned him down?? Aren't they the same? Im pretty sure he was thinking off the top and wasn't aware of all the bad press that followed. Can't blame the guy, cut him some slack. Nobody complaining bout Anderson turning down a fight with Weidman for the same reason Jones turned down Sonnen. He believes he doesn't deserve it.

[Makhai]

Dana White is a child in men's clothing... Jon Jones and Greg Jackson need to pull their heads out of their asses, and Chael Sonnen is one hell of a capitalist.

[MrSelfDestruct]

So if people are complaining about Jones turning down Sonnen on a week notice, why is no one saying much about Machida turning down Jones on a month's notice?

[Blackman]

So if people are complaining about Jones turning down Sonnen on a week notice, why is no one saying much about Machida turning down Jones on a month's notice?

 

Machida's not a current star. Few people actually like him because of his style and character.

[Makhai]

So if people are complaining about Jones turning down Sonnen on a week notice, why is no one saying much about Machida turning down Jones on a month's notice?

 

Because he didn't turn it down, he just asked for the fight to be held at UFC 153 in Brazil. The UFC flipped out and gave the fight to Vitor... even thought both of those fights would do better business at 153. UFC is just on total tilt right now.

[J-Money]

Because he didn't turn it down, he just asked for the fight to be held at UFC 153 in Brazil. The UFC flipped out and gave the fight to Vitor... even thought both of those fights would do better business at 153. UFC is just on total tilt right now.

 

The UFC should've booked Weidman vs Sonnen at a catch weight and save the card. Who wouldn't wanna see the manliest man on the planet take on the true number one contender to Anderson Silva's title?

[Blackman]

The UFC should've booked Weidman vs Sonnen at a catch weight and save the card. Who wouldn't wanna see the manliest man on the planet take on the true number one contender to Anderson Silva's title?

 

The cancellation might've been some sort of angry reaction to Jones not wanting to play ball. The main event you name probably would've brought in enough people to make the event worthwhile I guess?

[MrSelfDestruct]

I just find it kind of hypocritical because Machida "isn't as big star" no one complains when he has a whole month to prepare, when Jones had one week to change his entire gameplan.. The guy's the champion and I feel that gives him much more right to at least somewhat pick his opponents. Contenders should fight whoever, let alone the champion!

[MrSelfDestruct]

Machida's not a current star. Few people actually like him because of his style and character.

 

this is extremely hypocritical though. Jones had more reason to deny it, Machida did not. Machida had more time to prepare and everything and he turned it down. I don't see the backlash here

[The Shape]

Never thought I'd actually want to see Vitor KOing Jones but now I will be very happy if it happens. He's jumped the shark here for me, screwing over so many people.

[Killagy]

He may have destroyed Sonnen, he may have not. Yes by him turning down the fight his endorsement deal wiith Nike is gonna look foolish on Nike's part now, but what about everyother fighter that got offered to fight Jones and turned him down?? Aren't they the same? Im pretty sure he was thinking off the top and wasn't aware of all the bad press that followed. Can't blame the guy, cut him some slack. Nobody complaining bout Anderson turning down a fight with Weidman for the same reason Jones turned down Sonnen. He believes he doesn't deserve it.

 

Doesn't really matter. At the end of the day the general consensus is this: The definition of being a FIGHTING champion is being open and ready to defend the title against WHOEVER, WHEREVER, and under any circumstances to constantly prove why you're at the top of the food chain. Anything less would be looked down upon, downright stinking of pure p****. That's an age-old public opinion on sport culture that hasn't changed, and quite frankly I hope it never does. JBJ should've stepped up regardless if "Sonnen deserved it or not", he should've accepted it so he'd be able to thrash him that night just to show he'a a true fighting champion. All the bad press going on right now he brought on himself.

 

It's funny that Jones won his title because he replaced an injured Evans. Now he refuses a fight under the exact same conditions but on the flip side of the coin. He is a good fighter with NO heart. This will guarantee that he will NEVER be considered the best ever. Instead of fighting to win he is fighting not to lose.

[J-Money]

Doesn't really matter. At the end of the day the general consensus is this: The definition of being a FIGHTING champion is being open and ready to defend the title against WHOEVER, WHEREVER, and under any circumstances to constantly prove why you're at the top of the food chain. Anything less would be looked down upon, downright stinking of pure p****. That's an age-old public opinion on sport culture that hasn't changed, and quite frankly I hope it never does. JBJ should've stepped up regardless if "Sonnen deserved it or not", he should've accepted it so he'd be able to thrash him that night just to show he'a a true fighting champion. All the bad press going on right now he brought on himself.

 

It's funny that Jones won his title because he replaced an injured Evans. Now he refuses a fight under the exact same conditions but on the flip side of the coin. He is a good fighter with NO heart. This will guarantee that he will NEVER be considered the best ever. Instead of fighting to win he is fighting not to lose.

 

Hence why he doesnt wanna fight Silva. Really?? You want him to be your mentor I can understand that, but you aint a real fighter unless you want to prove you're the best fighter in the world.

[CoutureLegend]

this is extremely hypocritical though. Jones had more reason to deny it, Machida did not. Machida had more time to prepare and everything and he turned it down. I don't see the backlash here

 

The difference is that Jon Jones was in shape & ready to go.. Machida wasn't! Lyoto was expected to meet the winner of the Jones/Hendo fight so i would imagine he has spent very little time in the gym since his fight with Bader. It's absolutely fair for Machida to want more time to get in shape & prepare for that fight.

 

Shogun also turned down the fight before it was offered to Belfort.

 

Doesn't really matter. At the end of the day the general consensus is this: The definition of being a FIGHTING champion is being open and ready to defend the title against WHOEVER, WHEREVER, and under any circumstances to constantly prove why you're at the top of the food chain. Anything less would be looked down upon, downright stinking of pure p****. That's an age-old public opinion on sport culture that hasn't changed, and quite frankly I hope it never does. JBJ should've stepped up regardless if "Sonnen deserved it or not", he should've accepted it so he'd be able to thrash him that night just to show he'a a true fighting champion. All the bad press going on right now he brought on himself.

 

I keep hearing people bring this up about whether Sonnen deserved the fight or not, yet it's not even relevant in the circumstances. Jones didn't turn the fight down because he didn't feel Sonnen deserved to fight him, he just wasn't prepared to fight him on 8 days notice! He has already said he would've fought Sonnen at UFC 152 if they offered that fight to him.

 

Personally i'm really surprised at the backlash against Jon Jones over this! Lets get it right here, Jones hasn't turned down a fight with anybody.. He's just not willing to fight a new opponent with 8 days notice. The question i ask is, why should he take the fight?

 

Had he accepted the fight then he would've had just 3 days in Albuquerque to train for Sonnen before going to Vegas for the week of the fight, where training is normally very limited as all the work has been done in the week prior. Also lets not forget that both Greg Jackson & Mike Winklejohn (Jones' main coaches) will be in the Philippines with Andrei Arlovski for the majority of fight week !

 

Personally if i'm Jon Jones & i'm the #1 LHW on the planet & those are the circumstances i'm faced with.. I'm not taking that fight either!

[Blackman]

this is extremely hypocritical though. Jones had more reason to deny it, Machida did not. Machida had more time to prepare and everything and he turned it down. I don't see the backlash here

 

There is none. I'm just focusing on Jones, Machida had other reasons imo why he should've taken that fight back then. Jones is a current P4P star. Turning down fights at the last possible moment does not bode well for popular fighters imo.

[android17]

this is extremely hypocritical though. Jones had more reason to deny it, Machida did not. Machida had more time to prepare and everything and he turned it down. I don't see the backlash here

 

Machida just fought weeks ago, not Jones. Jones is supposed to fight while Machida is just on the "cooldown" period after his recent fight.

[BurningHamster]

I just find it kind of hypocritical because Machida "isn't as big star" no one complains when he has a whole month to prepare, when Jones had one week to change his entire gameplan.. The guy's the champion and I feel that gives him much more right to at least somewhat pick his opponents. Contenders should fight whoever, let alone the champion!

 

Because Machida isn't leading to anything getting cancelled and because Jones could probably win anyway based on his abnormal reach/Sonnen only having a week to prepare too. Jones would still have a huge advantage as at least he was preparing to fight on that date, Sonnen wasn't and was at least willing to give it a shot.

 

Jones is what happens to sports when too much money/shoe companies get involved. It's only natural a few of his ilk will gravitate towards the sport and things will immediately go downhill horribly.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Jones already beat Machida anyways, so honestly I had no interest in that fight. And I guess I'm just a fan based on actual in-ring ability and thats why I like Jones, he's a wrecking ball. I don't care how he is as a person, I like how he fights. that's all.

 

Everyone saying because hes the champion he gives MMA a bad name, well honestly, he brings it more interest with his fights, not his personality. If you wanna judge on personality he still isn't as bad as Spider or Tito. People just always like to hate the champ, haters gunna hate.

[Killagy]

And the "haters" will keep hating until he either redeems himself with a jaw-dropping performance or he gets knocked the f*** out and drops the title, bitter karma biting him on the ass. I hope he's proud of himself, everyone likes to be the first in everything. He has the honor of being the first big name p**** to duck a title defense (against someone many deem inferior) and completely cancel the card in the process! I wonder how the guys who were scheduled to fight on the Mid-card, under-card feel. A lot of those are making pennies at this point in their careers, many of them were looking forward to their fights to help with their financial situations at home. Hope this chump is happy with himself. Not saying that this would prevent Dana from re-signing him when his contract expires, but that negotiating process is going to be a long and stressful one for him with this on his track record.

[MrSelfDestruct]

And the "haters" will keep hating until he either redeems himself with a jaw-dropping performance or he gets knocked the f*** out and drops the title, bitter karma biting him on the ass. I hope he's proud of himself, everyone likes to be the first in everything. He has the honor of being the first big name p**** to duck a title defense (against someone many deem inferior) and completely cancel the card in the process! I wonder how the guys who were scheduled to fight on the Mid-card, under-card feel. A lot of those are making pennies at this point in their careers, many of them were looking forward to their fights to help with their financial situations at home. Hope this chump is happy with himself. Not saying that this would prevent Dana from re-signing him when his contract expires, but that negotiating process is going to be a long and stressful one for him with this on his track record.

 

which he probably will, he has in literally just about every other fight he's had. and he's the first? are you forgetting Silva? He ducked the Sonnen rematch until Chael pissed him off. and how can you call a guy who fights (and quite well) for a living a p****? thats just idiotic. and im sure the fighters were payed something and had the fights pushed like a card up

[BurningHamster]

which he probably will, he has in literally just about every other fight he's had. and he's the first? are you forgetting Silva? He ducked the Sonnen rematch until Chael pissed him off. and how can you call a guy who fights (and quite well) for a living a p****? thats just idiotic. and im sure the fighters were payed something and had the fights pushed like a card up

 

Because he behaves like a p-word it's totally a fair call. Jon Jones is a sissy pansy primadonna lilly-livered yellow-bellied egg-sucking dog who is totally lacking in male genitals, heart, backbone and guts. All those regions of his body are instead filled with ego and cowardice. He is the epitome of everything that can go wrong with an athlete's attitude.

 

I don't totally blame him for the show being cancelled, that was Dana's call, but Jones is the major factor in that and the reasons he gave for it were absolutely repugnant and moronic, all that stuff about how he wants to dominate his fights and make them look effortless. What a bloody moron.

[MrSelfDestruct]

but its fighting, why does his ego or anything matter at all? True MMA fans will like a fighter for their ability. You don't like him cuz you think he's a jerk (not you in particular), too bad. he's a damn good fighter.

 

and i'll agree it was his fault. but also Dana's for booking such a lackluster card to begin with. Usually there are 3 decent fights in case of injury but this one, no. Siver vs. some nobody is what I didn't get. If he was facing nearly anyone else, the event may have survived, cuz itd have been the co main event