jesterx7769 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 How do they factor in the commercial licensing for the buys? i.e. Hooters, etc. I know UFC charges a fee to show the fights (which I'm assuming has gone up the last few years) but how does that factor into PPV numbers? Or do they just not count it at all? edit: On the K-1 note, Overeem talked today about not getting paid from last years Grand Prix. Guess that's why some Showtime guys are already in from the partnership because they know Showtime will pay them instead of FEG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 How do they factor in the commercial licensing for the buys? i.e. Hooters, etc. I know UFC charges a fee to show the fights (which I'm assuming has gone up the last few years) but how does that factor into PPV numbers? Or do they just not count it at all? The numbers that are banded about are not official, they usually come from Dave Meltzer from his sources within the PPV companies. From what I'm told, they're based on domestic, home purchases in the US and Canada. The truth is that nobody knows for sure because neither the UFC or the PPV people release the numbers. Some credible sources have claimed that the 1.7 million number for UFC 100 was infact a combination of homes, bars and international PPV's/views. No way to prove/disprove it either way. edit: On the K-1 note, Overeem talked today about not getting paid from last years Grand Prix. Guess that's why some Showtime guys are already in from the partnership because they know Showtime will pay them instead of FEG. I'd assume that It's Showtime (not to be confused with Showtime) have been paid upfront, or will be paid in advance, of any WGP they provide fighters for after all K-1's money troubles. Simon Rutz (owner of It's Showtime) isn't stupid, and he cancelled a huge Amsterdam end of year show until next year so that he could send his guys to the WGP. Doubt he'd have done that for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hendo has never done over 350-375 I believe. Shogun has averaged about 500 for the three UFC's he's main evented (against Jones and Machida x2 when the UFC hype train was at it's peak for both), but that was before he got wrecked by Jones and UFC PPV buys slumped. Hendo just never clicked with the UFC PPV buying audience, and with good reason. Yes, there's a chance that he'll 'Bisping' somebody, but there's an equal chance that you'll drop $55 on a dull, grinding main event. And now it's five rounds, so you'll really get your money's worth, or not. It'll break 350, but I'd be shocked if it did anymore than 400. Fewer people are buying UFC PPV's at the moment, and that's a fact. I would agree with this. I think it'll do 375,000, but I have a feeling that is going to be a very optimistic guess. As for the fight, I think Shogun probably levels Henderson and puts him away by the second round, providing he can escape Hendo's takedowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hendo/Shogun is an exciting announcement. I'm definately getting that fight for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 No more undercard fights on Facebook once they go to FOX. Seems like FOX want to air them, but no news on what platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 No more undercard fights on Facebook once they go to FOX. Seems like FOX want to air them, but no news on what platform. Is it Fuel TV or something, the little one they own that's smaller than FX? It'll probably go there. Dunno what that means for the UK/rest of the world mind. I guess we'll either get them on facebook with a GeoIP block, or they'll maybe stick em on FX? I can't see them getting 3 hours of TV time in the UK to be honest, but stranger things have happened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Is it Fuel TV or something, the little one they own that's smaller than FX? It'll probably go there. Dunno what that means for the UK/rest of the world mind. I guess we'll either get them on facebook with a GeoIP block, or they'll maybe stick em on FX? I can't see them getting 3 hours of TV time in the UK to be honest, but stranger things have happened... I'd like to see it on TV because at least then I can pause and stretch my legs whenever I want. Watching a few hours of fights on the computer isn't much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 I'd like to see it on TV because at least then I can pause and stretch my legs whenever I want. Watching a few hours of fights on the computer isn't much fun. My semi-solution to that is HDMI'ing a lappy to my TV. The BT exchange is right outside my front door, so my net is fast as...well, y'know...so I get a really good quality picture even on a 32" or 42" screen. Can't pause it on FB, although you can on the UFC.tv prelims if I remember right, but it beats getting a room full of drunkards huddled around a single lappy/PC :-p Worse than watching a few hours of fights infront of a computer = Watching a few hours of fights next to a 370lb doorman at a UFC event in really small seats. You've met me Fantab, I was a bit chunkier at the time but I'm hardly the biggest fella in the world...every time the dude moved I thought he was going to crush me. Floor seats or press only from that point on :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I'm just glad Fox is following through so far on promoting the UFC, the first few weeks of NFL programming they have reads and commercial spots for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 So it looks like Golden Glory is falling to bits. There have been rumblings of discontent for a while now, but most people put it down to the K-1 situation. Today Overeem has confirmed that he's left the GG management team. Saki hasn't confirmed it yet but he's gone too. Expect other names to follow. This is a massive, massive surprise to me. I've been lucky enough to train at each of the GG gyms in Holland over the years when I lived there, and the pro fight team, trainers and management were like a family. Bas Boon, the top man there, has been ill for a while and has stepped back from his duties, which has caused things with K-1 and It's Showtime to progress slower than some would have liked. The original plan was for GG to be involved in some big kickboxing/MMA shows in the US by the end of this year/early next, and many see Boon's absence as the reason those plans have yet to bare fruit. Still a crazy situation though. GG is an institution in the Dutch kickboxing/Free Fight/MMA world...will be crazy seeing it implode What I don't know yet is whether or not Overeem is going to continue working with Martijn de Jong and the other GG coaches. I've reached out to Martijn, hoping to get an answer soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Amidst the UFC's ongoing quest for mainstream acceptance I find it quite strange how heavily they're billing 137 as GSP vs. "The Killer" xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hasn't Overeem been with de Jong since his teens? Super surprised at the split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hasn't Overeem been with de Jong since his teens? Super surprised at the split. Yeah, they've been together for aaaaages. Still don't know if he won't be training with de Jong anymore. GG management and the various gyms are different entities (under the same umbrella of course), so it's possible that he could still train with some, or all, of the same GG guys. Or de Jong and could also jump ship and join him in the states...I'm sure there would be a lot of work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah, they've been together for aaaaages. Still don't know if he won't be training with de Jong anymore. GG management and the various gyms are different entities (under the same umbrella of course), so it's possible that he could still train with some, or all, of the same GG guys. Or de Jong and could also jump ship and join him in the states...I'm sure there would be a lot of work for them. The question I have is... was the situation with Zuffa "the straw that broke the camels back"? I saw the interview he had on MMAFighting, it seemed pretty well it was "organized" through someone else. That put him in a really bad position with Zuffa (initially). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 The question I have is... was the situation with Zuffa "the straw that broke the camels back"? I saw the interview he had on MMAFighting, it seemed pretty well it was "organized" through someone else. That put him in a really bad position with Zuffa (initially). No, because GG did the deal with Zuffa to get Overeem back in the UFC. They also got Jon Olav Einemo back in and by the looks of things, Siyar Bahadurzada will be signing in the next few days - he has a contract but has not signed it yet. My theory, from speaking to some people and reading the statements issued by Reem and Boon, and what I know of how GG runs. Golden Glory pays for their fighters to train etc. They take money from promoters, then pay the fighters. This was great for the fighters with their K-1 deals, as K-1 always paid after the fact - it allowed them to continue to live and train on GG's dime until the money came though. Thing is, K-1 owes Overeem a massive, massive amount of money for fighting in, promoting and winning the GP. We're talking mid-to high six-figures. GG can't pay him that outright, obviously. My guess is this: Overeem asked that GG take a significantly lower cut of his UFC contract in return for them not getting him his K-1 money - as his management, it's their responsibility to get him paid, after all. GG didn't want to change the percentages they always had and that's what has caused the rift: Alistair wants to get paid for the work he's done, GG don't have the ready money and don't want to miss out on a percentage of his UFC contract, which will be worth millions while he's main eventing PPV's against the likes of Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 All assumptions of course, but I read one interview where he said Overeem was no longer happy with the standard percentages they had been using. If that's true, Overeem probably didn't want to shell out more money (larger UFC deal=more money for GG on the same percent) when 1) They're the reason he (And his brother) were cut from SF as they couldn't get a deal done (leaving conspiracy out that it was planned so he could go to UFC for Brock) 2) K-1 money that he still hasn't got and wants to pursue legally 3) UFC was going to give him big money on his own and didn't really need them. Wouldn't be surprised if he signed with a more common UFC/MMA management team here in the US and started training over here. Of course there are probably personal reasons that haven't been disclosed but these are some obvious business problems Overeem could have with them. On top of what BH said about Boon being sick, I can see how Overeem would get tired of dealing with "secondaries" after dealing with Boon forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJoel Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Kids...Cung Le vs Wanderlei Silva is now scheduled for UFC 139. Vitor Belfort is out with an injury. UFC 139 is shaping up to be a great card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah Le/Wand interests me more than the probable back-of-the-head-beatdown that Belfort would have delivered. Just watched the 135 countdown show. Can't help but love Jones, and I really really want to see him vs. Rashad in a battle of casual sheer arrogance. Can see him wearing down and breaking Rampage unless he gets clocked early. With that said, looking at the odds...Rampage by KO at over 5/1 seems huge. Jones submission 6/1 and Jones on points at over 3/1 are also pretty tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 No, because GG did the deal with Zuffa to get Overeem back in the UFC. They also got Jon Olav Einemo back in and by the looks of things, Siyar Bahadurzada will be signing in the next few days - he has a contract but has not signed it yet. My theory, from speaking to some people and reading the statements issued by Reem and Boon, and what I know of how GG runs. Golden Glory pays for their fighters to train etc. They take money from promoters, then pay the fighters. This was great for the fighters with their K-1 deals, as K-1 always paid after the fact - it allowed them to continue to live and train on GG's dime until the money came though. Thing is, K-1 owes Overeem a massive, massive amount of money for fighting in, promoting and winning the GP. We're talking mid-to high six-figures. GG can't pay him that outright, obviously. My guess is this: Overeem asked that GG take a significantly lower cut of his UFC contract in return for them not getting him his K-1 money - as his management, it's their responsibility to get him paid, after all. GG didn't want to change the percentages they always had and that's what has caused the rift: Alistair wants to get paid for the work he's done, GG don't have the ready money and don't want to miss out on a percentage of his UFC contract, which will be worth millions while he's main eventing PPV's against the likes of Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez etc. I know it isn't GG's fault, but, from what you said, Overeem did offer them a pretty good deal. Sure, they would probably lose out on some potential money, but at least they don't have to worry about paying Overeem's K1 money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 BH, with Reem's new UFC deal, IS golden glory getting their usual cut or did UFC negotiate solely with Reem- thus making it up to him to pay GG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 BH, with Reem's new UFC deal, IS golden glory getting their usual cut or did UFC negotiate solely with Reem- thus making it up to him to pay GG? GG brokered the deal. UFC doesn't negotiate with fighters, only agents. They only *pay* fighters - as in, the cheque has the fighters name, not the agent/management company's name on it. Overeem will have a management contract with GG which states what kind of % they get from his signing bonus, initial contract etc. He will have to pay them something. This is where it gets confusing...Reem has now left GG after they brokered the deal for him. They claim to have a management contract, and are whispering about settling the matter in court. I don't honestly know any more than that, I just hope it doesn't get messy and distracting for Overeem ahead of the biggest (MMA) fight of his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 I know it isn't GG's fault, but, from what you said, Overeem did offer them a pretty good deal. Sure, they would probably lose out on some potential money, but at least they don't have to worry about paying Overeem's K1 money. That's just my theory from putting all the pieces together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_w_w Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Off to Denver tomorrow for a hopefully nice extended vacation weekend, including UFC 135. Anyone going to be there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Jones, Kos, Rothwell, Diaz, Browne, Ferguson, Botesch, Assuncao, Mizugaki, Romero. What say you all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btorrie Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Jones, Kos, Rothwell, Diaz, Browne, Ferguson, Botesch, Assuncao, Mizugaki, Romero. What say you all? I agree except possibly Gomi over Diaz Diaz is a bit of a slow starter, if Gomi comes out like he did against Griffin... Diaz has never been KO'd but Gomi hits hard. He'd be my outside shot. Should be a good card and a great run of UFC events coming up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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