The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Daffanka]

Why would they split their company in two? They've done such a terrific job at building up the UFC as a brand and now you want them to throw that away?

 

If it was up to me, I'd split UFC & WEC differently then most people are talking about. Drop Lightweights down to WEC, it would give WEC some "names" and attract interest, and create superfights (Jose Aldo jump weight to fight BJ Penn!)

 

This can't happen if they bring in FW to UFC?

 

and then in the UFC you add the much needed Cruiserweight division,

 

They don't have anywhere near the talent depth to split HW in two. The division would be Cain Velasquez and no one else of note.

 

and modify the Middlerweight & Light Heavyweight divisions to make it more even. Right now someone like Silva can cut to 185, but then get back up to 200. Cutting the extra 5 would make a HUGE differance. And in that case he could fight bigger guys who can also cut to 195.

 

Anderson's fought at 170 before. 5 extra pounds won't stop him and there aren't any other guys who this would affect other than giving them a rougher cut.

 

It would make Middleweight a more even division, allowing some Welter's to jump (Thiago, looking at you!) and guys like Maia to do well without big guys like Silva

 

Why? Thiago makes weight perfectly fine. Maia not doing well has nothing to do with Anderson being big and more to do with him being so much slower and less talented than Anderson.

 

Then of course the Cruiserweight division creates a huge division for a lot of guys. Most top Light Heavyweights would be up there, and guys who are getting overshadowed or not given the chance (Jon Jones) can dominate the new Light Heavyweight division.

 

Most top light heavyweights would get steamrolled by Cain because they'd still be giving up 20 pounds to the guy. And being the main event of a fight night is now being overshadowed?

 

All you seem to want to do is move the weight divisions about a bit just for the sake of it. It would still have the exact same or even more problems because now we'd have two divisions where there's a significant difference in weight between fighters.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Yeah, not so much a fan of your suggestions MrCanada.

 

As Daff said, Zuffa has spent safe vaults full of money to establish the UFC name since buying it. Two of your key suggestions were to... drop the Lightweight division to WEC and split the heavyweight division... which up until about two years ago was probably the weakest division in MMA history.

 

Most people -love- the lightweights, especially the casual fan. And since the casual fan isn't as "in the know" about lesser products(Strikeforce, WEC, KOTC, etcetcetc) it would be nonsensical to drop one of their most popular divisions to a lesser brand.

 

The heavyweight division isn't even that stacked as it is right now, it just seems that way. The truth of the matter is, Lesnar is really only about three fights away from destroying the division that's 'so stacked'. You've got Carwin, Velasquez, and Junior dos Santos. If those three can't beat Lesnar then there's pretty much nobody else in the division until Nogueira or Mir put together another streak.

 

I swear, Thiago Alves has had trouble making weight twice, and that's it. And the second time it happened he decided to fight through an ankle injury, and still beat the **** out of Hughes. So there's no reason to point any sort of finger at him. He's a big welterweight but he's shown no signs of having issues since the last debacle.

 

And how is Jon Jones being overshadowed? He's one of the most talked about fighters by the casual fanbase. And he has a pretty big following already amongst the elitist fans. The dude has had some good fights, but he's still growing as a fighter. Are you trying to suggest that he's ready to be thrown in there with the likes of Machida, Shogun, and Rampage? Why?

 

Jones has a long way to go before he's ready to be considered a contender, and even he knows that.

 

Also, Dana and company have been pretty adamant that they aren't "down" with women's MMA. He has said he's a fan, and that he respects the women for their efforts. But that's not the kind of product UFC is looking to build... Though I bet if Gina Carano would sign an Octagon Girl contract, Dana would be all over it.

[MrCanada]

They don't have anywhere near the talent depth to split HW in two. The division would be Cain Velasquez and no one else of note.

 

Pretty much all the larger Light Heavyweights would be in that division. And there is plenty of depth, people are just skewed because the divisions suck so much. Divisions should, really, be every 10 pounds or so with same-day weigh ins to make it real good. And I doubt Cain could get down to 220.

 

but a cruiserweight division would have plenty of guys who are too big to cut to 195.

 

Here's what the top two divisions would look like, and note I'm just listing names, not the young fighters no one really knows about yet.

 

Heavyweight: 265

Brock Lesnar

Shane Carwin

Cain Velazquez

Roy Nelson

Frank Mir

Minotauro Nogueira

Cheick Kongo

Heath Herring

Gabriel Gonzaga

Junior Dos Santos

 

Cruiserweight: 220

Forrest Griffin

Keith Jardine

Ryan Bader

Chuck Liddell

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira

Tito Ortiz

Brandon Vera

Randy Couture

Quinton Jackson (doubt he can get to 195 anymore)

Mirko Cro Cop

Gilbert Yvel

Kimbo Slice

Jon Jones (might be able to hit 195)

Keith Jardine

 

Light Heavyweight: 195

Anderson Silva

Lyoto Machida

Mauricio Rua

Vitor Belfort (could drop down to 185)

Jon Jones (might be too big)

Rashad Evans

Rich Franklin (might be down at 185)

Thiago Silva

Matt Hamill

Wanderlei Silva (might be down at 185)

 

Middleweight: 185

Vitor Beflort (might decide to stay at 195 where he's more comfortable, him Franklin, & Henderson are the big names that have been pushing for that class to be brought in)

Michael Bisping

Rich Franklin

Demian Maia

Nate Marquardt

Yushin Okami

Chael Sonnen

Wanderlei Silva (might be up at 195)

 

Welterweight:

Georges St-Pierre

Thiago Alves

Carlos Condit

Paul Daley

Marcus Davis

Jon Fitch

Dan Hardy

Matt Hughes

Anthony Johnson (might jump to 185 as he gets older & bigger)

Josh Koscheck

Matt Serra

Mike Swick

 

and those are only "names" of course you could bring in more guys from the outside, and UFC could aggressively go after some guys who would love to get in and just arnt "known" yet.

 

And this would only create more names, that cant be stressed enough. If you watch enough MMA, especially for long enough, you realize that is suffers from the same crap pro-wrestling does. Josh Koscheck is in the UFC (eg WWE) so he must be amazing! then Paulo Thiago comes and bam. There are a CRAP load of good fighters who just havnt been given the chances yet who if given some rope would do well.

 

Jake Shields is GREAT example. Respected upmost in MMA circles but no one cared. I watched Strikeforce with friends and was the only one cheering for Shields (I didnt think he'd win though to be honest), and my friends were ****ting on him when he's now argueably the second best middleweight behind Silva! And he would likely beat anyone in the UFC besides him.

 

If UFC did this they would be EXPANDING, which means getting more and more already semi-accomplished fighters, or trying to, like King Mo. Or bringing Nick Diaz back, though I doubt they would.

[Daffanka]

And this would only create more names, that cant be stressed enough. If you watch enough MMA, especially for long enough, you realize that is suffers from the same crap pro-wrestling does. Josh Koscheck is in the UFC (eg WWE) so he must be amazing! then Paulo Thiago comes and bam. There are a CRAP load of good fighters who just havnt been given the chances yet who if given some rope would do well.

 

No it absolutely does not. There's constantly new stars being created. Brock Lesnar, Jon Jones, Rogerio Nogueira, Cain Velasquez, Jose Aldo, Junior Dos Santos, Frankie Edgar, Brian Bowles, Paulo Thiago, Chael Sonnen, Ryan Bader, Dominick Cruz and Shane Carwin to name but a few.

 

Jake Shields is GREAT example. Respected upmost in MMA circles but no one cared. I watched Strikeforce with friends and was the only one cheering for Shields (I didnt think he'd win though to be honest), and my friends were ****ting on him when he's now argueably the second best middleweight behind Silva! And he would likely beat anyone in the UFC besides him.

 

Good then that Shields is coming to the UFC. He'd get wrecked by GSP, Fitch, Alves and the like but he's a quality fighter and ergo he's coming to the UFC. By the way Shields is a WW he just fights at MW because Diaz is their WW champ.

 

If UFC did this they would be EXPANDING, which means getting more and more already semi-accomplished fighters, or trying to, like King Mo. Or bringing Nick Diaz back, though I doubt they would.

 

... they're under contract and Dana's already said he's interested in Diaz.

 

I have no idea why you think messing up the weight classes creates new stars nor do I see the point of it. You understand that the reason HW is so broad is because there's not enough good HW fighters to make two compelling weight classes? Having more weight classes is only an advantage if you have enough fighters to fill said weight classes and that's not the case for MMA right now, especially for the heavy guys. The 220+ pound athletes still go to football to make hundreds of millions rather than go to MMA where they'll earn significantly less money. That's the root of the problem.

[Dustin]

Off topic I know, but I by some fluke happened to stumble across Jon Fitch's college wrestling page and was surprised to find out that he was not as good a wrestler as I gave him credit for.

 

1998-1999: 8-8 season record

1999-2000: 8-21-2 season record

2000-2001: 11-8 season record

Overall: 27-37-2

 

Then I looked back and noticed that he hasn't fought many wrestlers during his career:

 

GSP - dominated him

Diego - decent wrestling but favors his jiu-jitsu far more

Mike Pierce - pretty good wrestler, solid win for Fitch

Brock Larson - same as Pierce

 

There could be an explanation for all of this, but that record looks horrible compared to someone like Koscheck who went 42-0 in a single season.

[brashleyholland]

Couple of things on weight classes.

 

-A curiserweight division is absolutely unnecessary. As has already been mentioned, there aren't enough talented fighters to facilitate it at this point. Maybe in 10 years, when there is enough money in MMA for the 250lb collage athletes to chose MMA over the NFL/WWE, but as it stands, it's just not needed.

 

- Adding more weight classes dilutes talent pools for the existing divisions. There are only so many shows the UFC can run per year, and they're already hitting critical mass. Having additional champions who have won titles in shallow divisions does not make stars. You end up with less stars if anything...see boxing for reference. Guys will hop between weight divisions, titles will become cheapened as champions also move up and down and it will be confusing for the fans. Pro-Elite tried to do it and failed miserably. This isn't wrestling where stars can be created by giving them a spotlight. The best drawing fighters in combat sports history are those that rule over strong divisions.

 

- There are some big misconceptions about cutting weight here. Cutting an additional five pounds makes no difference WHATSOEVER to a 200lb man who does it properly. With the correct diet, exercise and supplement regime, it's no more difficult for a 220lb fighter to make 195 than it is 205. I have seen with my own eyes Mark Coleman step on a scale at 184lbs while doing practise cuts a few years back when he was considering a 205lb run in Pride and wanted to make sure he could do it easily. That was without the numerous doctors, dieticians and trainers that say, Randy Couture uses to get into fighting shape.

 

- Adding divisions will not stop weight advantages. If you have a 220lb division, guys like Forrest, Chuck and Tito would not fight in it, they'd get down to 195. Otherwise they'd be fighting 240+ pound guys who can get down to 220, which is the reason they cut to light heavyweight in the first place. The mentality is always "As low as you can go"..adding more divisions wont change that.

 

- The UFC will never give up any of it's weight classes to WEC. They don't want brand confusion. For as long as the WEC lasts, they'll keep the divisions separate. I expect that 155 will fold into the UFC sooner rather than later, making way for a Flyweight division. Long term though, there still aren't enough fighters in the US for a sustainable 125lb division. The top-ranked 125lb fighter has a record of 3-0, that's how shallow it is. Add to the fact that most of the fighters of note at that weight are Japanese (BJ Kojima, Mamoru Yamaguchi, Urushiitani), and it's unlikely that an MMA promotion in the states would be able to find legit stars. As for 115 and 105lb classes...it's not happening.

[brashleyholland]

Off topic I know, but I by some fluke happened to stumble across Jon Fitch's college wrestling page and was surprised to find out that he was not as good a wrestler as I gave him credit for.

 

1998-1999: 8-8 season record

1999-2000: 8-21-2 season record

2000-2001: 11-8 season record

Overall: 27-37-2

 

Then I looked back and noticed that he hasn't fought many wrestlers during his career:

 

GSP - dominated him

Diego - decent wrestling but favors his jiu-jitsu far more

Mike Pierce - pretty good wrestler, solid win for Fitch

Brock Larson - same as Pierce

 

There could be an explanation for all of this, but that record looks horrible compared to someone like Koscheck who went 42-0 in a single season.

 

I think it's just a situation whereby being good at adapting wrestling for MMA doesn't mean that you are a good wrestler. GSP learned wrestling for MMA, for example. After training with actual wrestlers with a view to competing in the Olympics, he realised that he was sorely out-gunned and would have been in waaay over his head.

 

Fitch is simply one of those guys who uses wrestling in MMA very well.

[Tag01]

Couple of things on weight classes.

 

-A curiserweight division is absolutely unnecessary. As has already been mentioned, there aren't enough talented fighters to facilitate it at this point. Maybe in 10 years, when there is enough money in MMA for the 250lb collage athletes to chose MMA over the NFL/WWE, but as it stands, it's just not needed.

 

- Adding more weight classes dilutes talent pools for the existing divisions. There are only so many shows the UFC can run per year, and they're already hitting critical mass. Having additional champions who have won titles in shallow divisions does not make stars. You end up with less stars if anything...see boxing for reference. Guys will hop between weight divisions, titles will become cheapened as champions also move up and down and it will be confusing for the fans. Pro-Elite tried to do it and failed miserably. This isn't wrestling where stars can be created by giving them a spotlight. The best drawing fighters in combat sports history are those that rule over strong divisions.

 

- There are some big misconceptions about cutting weight here. Cutting an additional five pounds makes no difference WHATSOEVER to a 200lb man who does it properly. With the correct diet, exercise and supplement regime, it's no more difficult for a 220lb fighter to make 195 than it is 205. I have seen with my own eyes Mark Coleman step on a scale at 184lbs while doing practise cuts a few years back when he was considering a 205lb run in Pride and wanted to make sure he could do it easily. That was without the numerous doctors, dieticians and trainers that say, Randy Couture uses to get into fighting shape.

 

- Adding divisions will not stop weight advantages. If you have a 220lb division, guys like Forrest, Chuck and Tito would not fight in it, they'd get down to 195. Otherwise they'd be fighting 240+ pound guys who can get down to 220, which is the reason they cut to light heavyweight in the first place. The mentality is always "As low as you can go"..adding more divisions wont change that.

 

- The UFC will never give up any of it's weight classes to WEC. They don't want brand confusion. For as long as the WEC lasts, they'll keep the divisions separate. I expect that 155 will fold into the UFC sooner rather than later, making way for a Flyweight division. Long term though, there still aren't enough fighters in the US for a sustainable 125lb division. The top-ranked 125lb fighter has a record of 3-0, that's how shallow it is. Add to the fact that most of the fighters of note at that weight are Japanese (BJ Kojima, Mamoru Yamaguchi, Urushiitani), and it's unlikely that an MMA promotion in the states would be able to find legit stars. As for 115 and 105lb classes...it's not happening.

 

Exactly. It was just like when Pro Elite made the 160 division and the 150 division, and it was all the same fighters. I have no interest in a cruiserweight division now, and possibly never will. Without a doubt I don't want any of the lower divisions broken up. Although as the sport continues to grow I think 145, 135, and eventually even 125 will become huge. Lightweight was afterthough five years ago, and it's massive now.

[Daffanka]

So I guess the Overeem - Rogers card is finalized

 

 

MAIN CARD

 

* Champ Alistair Overeem vs. Brett Rogers (for heavyweight title)

* Andrei Arlovski vs. Antonio Silva

* Ronaldo "Souza" Jacare vs. Joey Villasenor

* Roger Gracie vs. Kevin Randleman

* Antwain Britt vs. Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante

 

PRELIMINARY CARD (un-aired)

 

* Justin DeMoney vs. Jesse Finney

* Lyle Beerbohm vs. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro

* Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto vs. Federico Lopez

* Lee Brousseau vs. Fransisco "Kiko" France

* Mike Chandler vs. Sal Woods

* Pat Benson vs. Erik Steenberg

* Tom Aaron vs. Matt Ricehouse

* Darryl Cobb vs. Booker DeRousse

 

Yeah they got both kid Yamamoto and Beerbohm vs. Shaolin in the unaired prelims.

[brashleyholland]

So I guess the Overeem - Rogers card is finalized

 

 

MAIN CARD

 

* Champ Alistair Overeem vs. Brett Rogers (for heavyweight title)

* Andrei Arlovski vs. Antonio Silva

* Ronaldo "Souza" Jacare vs. Joey Villasenor

* Roger Gracie vs. Kevin Randleman

* Antwain Britt vs. Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante

 

PRELIMINARY CARD (un-aired)

 

* Justin DeMoney vs. Jesse Finney

* Lyle Beerbohm vs. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro

* Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto vs. Federico Lopez

* Lee Brousseau vs. Fransisco "Kiko" France

* Mike Chandler vs. Sal Woods

* Pat Benson vs. Erik Steenberg

* Tom Aaron vs. Matt Ricehouse

* Darryl Cobb vs. Booker DeRousse

 

Yeah they got both kid Yamamoto and Beerbohm vs. Shaolin in the unaired prelims.

 

Kid Yamamoto is a very naughty boy...he's lucky that he's allowed to fight at all at the moment...

 

Great card though, couple of compelling fights.

 

Rogers vs Overeem has been brewing for a while...we had Brett on our radio show recently and to say that he's pumped is an understatement. That said, I have a soft spot for Overeem as I used to take classes from his brother when I lived in Holland. I keep forgetting that this is for a title...guess that shows how much the SF heavyweight title means...

 

AA vs Silva should be good as well. This is a HUGE fight for Arlovski if he is going to get his career back on track. I don't think Silva will be nimble enough to catch him, and AA usually does ok against that type of opponant.

 

Jacare will roll through Villasenor, Britt vs Feijao should be an interesting scuffle and Gracie will hopefully restore a bit of faith in the family name.

[RingofHonorGuard]

So I guess the Overeem - Rogers card is finalized

 

 

MAIN CARD

 

* Champ Alistair Overeem vs. Brett Rogers (for heavyweight title)

* Andrei Arlovski vs. Antonio Silva

* Ronaldo "Souza" Jacare vs. Joey Villasenor

* Roger Gracie vs. Kevin Randleman

* Antwain Britt vs. Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante

 

PRELIMINARY CARD (un-aired)

 

* Justin DeMoney vs. Jesse Finney

* Lyle Beerbohm vs. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro

* Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto vs. Federico Lopez

* Lee Brousseau vs. Fransisco "Kiko" France

* Mike Chandler vs. Sal Woods

* Pat Benson vs. Erik Steenberg

* Tom Aaron vs. Matt Ricehouse

* Darryl Cobb vs. Booker DeRousse

 

Yeah they got both kid Yamamoto and Beerbohm vs. Shaolin in the unaired prelims.

 

I guess getting your face knocked off by Fedor gets you a title shot in Strikeforce, for their paper Heavyweight title that Alistair Overrated carries. I have absolutely no interest in this fight, other than hoping Rogers wins and all of these Alistair fans start understanding that he's been looking so amazing lately because he's been fighting cans and/or lesser competition. It's getting a little ridiculous. He beat Paul Buentello... for the title.... Okay? That's all.

 

Arlovski vs. Bigfoot should be interesting... and by interesting I mean "It'll be interesting to see what I'll be doing other than watching Arlovski pitter-patter his way to a decision victory" ala Werdum. Almost every time Arlovski comes back from a KO, he's timid. I hope I'm wrong but I think Arlovski is going to approach this exactly like he did Werdum, doing just enough to win. I'd be surprised to see him KO Bigfoot though, honestly.

 

Jacare should beat Villasenor, but I think this is a stupid matchup... Very little upside for Jacare unless he wins by some slick submission.

 

If Roger Gracie doesn't submit Kevin Randleman he should just consider sticking to BJJ competitions. He's pretty much the last real shot at any sort of Gracie blood lineage in modern MMA, and he's not even that serious about it.

 

Britt vs. Calvancante should be fight of the night, and is really the only fight on this card that really intrigues me.

 

Dumbest prelims I've ever seen... How can you put Roger Gracie vs. Kevin Randleman on the main card and put ****ing Shaolin vs. Beerbohm on the prelims? Absolutely stupid. And what is Kid even doing fighting for Strikeforce? I didn't even hear he had signed with them, I thought he was still talking with Dana about possibly fighting in the WEC?

 

Kid Yamamoto is a very naughty boy...he's lucky that he's allowed to fight at all at the moment...[/Quote]

 

Can you elaborate? I hadn't heard anything, unless you were just referring to the fact that he's coming off two losses.

[Daffanka]

I guess getting your face knocked off by Fedor gets you a title shot in Strikeforce, for their paper Heavyweight title that Alistair Overrated carries. I have absolutely no interest in this fight, other than hoping Rogers wins and all of these Alistair fans start understanding that he's been looking so amazing lately because he's been fighting cans and/or lesser competition. It's getting a little ridiculous. He beat Paul Buentello... for the title.... Okay? That's all.

 

The SF titles mean about as much as the WAMMA titles.

 

I think Overeem's going to wreck him though. I wouldn't call him a can but Rogers is at best a mediocre, fairly one dimensional heavyweight. Overeem's defense and chin aren't very good so there's a chance he gets clipped and put down but I think it'll end with a knee in the clinch or punches on the ground.

 

Arlovski vs. Bigfoot should be interesting... and by interesting I mean "It'll be interesting to see what I'll be doing other than watching Arlovski pitter-patter his way to a decision victory" ala Werdum. Almost every time Arlovski comes back from a KO, he's timid. I hope I'm wrong but I think Arlovski is going to approach this exactly like he did Werdum, doing just enough to win. I'd be surprised to see him KO Bigfoot though, honestly.

 

Big Foot still hits hard and Arlovski's still got that same chin and inability to defend himself. You can play Arlovski roulette every time he fights someone who hits decently hard!

 

Jacare should beat Villasenor, but I think this is a stupid matchup... Very little upside for Jacare unless he wins by some slick submission.

 

I think you can chalk that up to SF division depth. Who else is there?

[RingofHonorGuard]

I think you can chalk that up to SF division depth. Who else is there?[/Quote]

 

Would have rather seen him fight Lawler or Smith if they were going to match him up with a striker, I guess. There would have been more upside to Lawler or Smith beating Jacare than if Villasenor pulls the upset. It's probably all irrelevant, because Jacare will probably sign with the UFC as soon as he is able to, assuming he continues to win.

[brashleyholland]

 

Can you elaborate? I hadn't heard anything, unless you were just referring to the fact that he's coming off two losses.

 

There was a big scandal in Japan a while back involving Kid, some friends and some other celebrities getting busted at 'Marijuana Parties'; basically small parties where people were getting high.

 

In Japan, there is a huge social stigma surrounding weed. Imagine Brock Lesnar getting caught cooking up a yummy batch of Heroin (apparently it's very more-ish) and you're in the right ballpark. He was blacklisted from TV for a while, lost all his big sponsorship deals and left FEG with a huge mess to sweep under the carpet. Even having a high profile employee associated with Marijuana in Japan is a huge no-no for any company that needs to be in the public eye (TV, advertising) to survive.

 

The best they could do at short notice was a "knee injury". They pulled his Dream debut with Benavidez and he was basically told to keep his head down and stay out of the press for 12 months through 2008/09. Hence the year of reflection. He did have a knee op during his sabbatical, but that was absolutly not the reason for it. It was just one of those things that everyone in Japanese MMA knew, but nobody talked about - very much like the Yakuza/Pride bust (from the same magazine that busted Kid) and the Enson Inoue weed bust.

 

When they finally brought him back, they got a ton of stick for it and kept him out of the spotlight as far as promoting the shows in Japan. The fact that he came back and performed poorly, without the Japanese 'Yamato-Damashii' fighting spirit reflected very badly on him.

 

It was basically viewed (in Japan) as him getting a second chance and not preparing for it properly, hence insulting those who gave it to him. Not cool in Japanese culture. Hence why he is fighting on the unaired portion of the SF card...it's a message being sent to Kid, while at the same time letting him fight out of the spotlight. If he looses, I expect FEG will cut him loose.

[RingofHonorGuard]

It was basically viewed (in Japan) as him getting a second chance and not preparing for it properly, hence insulting those who gave it to him. Not cool in Japanese culture. Hence why he is fighting on the unaired portion of the SF card...it's a message being sent to Kid, while at the same time letting him fight out of the spotlight. If he looses, I expect FEG will cut him loose.

 

Hmm... Yeah, I have a Japanese sister-in-law, so I knew the stances on weed in their country. They're also really hardcore against gambling. I've heard they have some cool underground Keno hubs though, lol. I didn't hear that about Kid though.

 

Maybe he should come to America full time and train with Aoki at Cesar Gracie's. They're pro-weed there, Kid would fit in.

[brashleyholland]

Josh Barnett is fighting Geronimo 'Mondragon' on a Strikeforce promoted show in Australia on July 17th according to Tatame.

 

Didn't see that one coming!

[Tag01]

There was a big scandal in Japan a while back involving Kid, some friends and some other celebrities getting busted at 'Marijuana Parties'; basically small parties where people were getting high.

 

In Japan, there is a huge social stigma surrounding weed. Imagine Brock Lesnar getting caught cooking up a yummy batch of Heroin (apparently it's very more-ish) and you're in the right ballpark. He was blacklisted from TV for a while, lost all his big sponsorship deals and left FEG with a huge mess to sweep under the carpet. Even having a high profile employee associated with Marijuana in Japan is a huge no-no for any company that needs to be in the public eye (TV, advertising) to survive.

 

The best they could do at short notice was a "knee injury". They pulled his Dream debut with Benavidez and he was basically told to keep his head down and stay out of the press for 12 months through 2008/09. Hence the year of reflection. He did have a knee op during his sabbatical, but that was absolutly not the reason for it. It was just one of those things that everyone in Japanese MMA knew, but nobody talked about - very much like the Yakuza/Pride bust (from the same magazine that busted Kid) and the Enson Inoue weed bust.

 

When they finally brought him back, they got a ton of stick for it and kept him out of the spotlight as far as promoting the shows in Japan. The fact that he came back and performed poorly, without the Japanese 'Yamato-Damashii' fighting spirit reflected very badly on him.

 

It was basically viewed (in Japan) as him getting a second chance and not preparing for it properly, hence insulting those who gave it to him. Not cool in Japanese culture. Hence why he is fighting on the unaired portion of the SF card...it's a message being sent to Kid, while at the same time letting him fight out of the spotlight. If he looses, I expect FEG will cut him loose.

 

That makes more sense if it was on a Japanese card. I don't know why Scott Coker would give a crap. Shaolin vs. Beerbohm is a great main event for a challengers card, and Yamamoto vs. anybody would be solid tv as well. Don't like what Strikeforce is doing with this at all. Especially since we'll probably never get to see any video on Shaolin/Beerbohm.

[Daffanka]

Josh Barnett is fighting Geronimo 'Mondragon' on a Strikeforce promoted show in Australia on July 17th according to Tatame.

 

Didn't see that one coming!

 

That's absolutely baffling. I like Mondragon though and the card will be free so business sense aside that's pretty great. Hope he beats Barnett.

 

In unrelated and probably old news apparently WEC 48 drew around 150-200k buys which is very encouraging. Also the network ratings shot up about 60% during the Jung - Garcia fight so I hope both those guys get some locker room bonuses for that fight and any extra buys they brought in.

 

I wouldn't call it WEC's Griffin - Bonnar but if nothing else it's a fight they can point to and say "this would never happen in the heavier divisions." Also Jung's probably got a job for life now so him being robbed doesn't make me nearly as mad anymore.

[brashleyholland]

That makes more sense if it was on a Japanese card. I don't know why Scott Coker would give a crap. Shaolin vs. Beerbohm is a great main event for a challengers card, and Yamamoto vs. anybody would be solid tv as well. Don't like what Strikeforce is doing with this at all. Especially since we'll probably never get to see any video on Shaolin/Beerbohm.

 

I think it's a case of American MMA being very 'en vogue' in Japan at the moment, and getting a lot of press. FEG don't want Kid making headlines because he's been nothing but bad press with poor in-ring efforts and drug issues. If he drops another 'L', well...

 

Drugs are a hot topic again lately because Enson Inoue had his comback fight after being busted with weed. Also, on the 9th of May, there is a big Inoki-promoted pro-wrestling show (Josh Barnett vs Takayama) which features the debut of a former Sumo superstar called Shinichi Wakakirin. He was kicked out of Sumo for life because of...you guessed it...a weed bust.

 

The annoying thing for me is that in the past SF haven't been taping prelims at all...hopefully the addition of Kid and Shaolin vs Beerbohm changes that.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Possible rumor killer on a Strikeforce sponsored Barnett/Mondragon fight. Fights still on, but not under a Strikeforce banner.

 

http://www.cagepotato.com/mondragon-vs-barnett-strikeforce-australia-apparently-news-strikeforce

[Tag01]

I think it's a case of American MMA being very 'en vogue' in Japan at the moment, and getting a lot of press. FEG don't want Kid making headlines because he's been nothing but bad press with poor in-ring efforts and drug issues. If he drops another 'L', well...

 

Drugs are a hot topic again lately because Enson Inoue had his comback fight after being busted with weed. Also, on the 9th of May, there is a big Inoki-promoted pro-wrestling show (Josh Barnett vs Takayama) which features the debut of a former Sumo superstar called Shinichi Wakakirin. He was kicked out of Sumo for life because of...you guessed it...a weed bust.

 

The annoying thing for me is that in the past SF haven't been taping prelims at all...hopefully the addition of Kid and Shaolin vs Beerbohm changes that.

 

Yea, it drives me nuts they don't tape those.

[Stennick]

So I'm about to be very vague here and the information I give out is nearly all I know about this fight.

 

I tuned into TNA a few weeks back and they were showing an Unleashed fight. This guy was a bloody mess, they stopped the fight to check on the cut which was like right above the eye because Rogan was talking about thats almost an automatic stop. The fight restarts and the other guy just pounds on his face, blood is going everywhere and out of nowhere the bloody guy traps him in a triangle for the win.

 

Does anybody have a clue what fight I might be talking about? I doubt it but its worth a shot.

[Capelli King]

I have absolutely no interest in this fight, other than hoping Rogers wins and all of these Alistair fans start understanding that he's been looking so amazing lately because he's been fighting cans and/or lesser competition. It's getting a little ridiculous. He beat Paul Buentello... for the title.... Okay? That's all.

 

I think you need to go and see some of his more recent fights. In the US\Strikeforce he has not got much action and not allot of people know him, go to Japan or Europe the picture changes. That said the title they are fighting for is a paper title as mentioned here;)

[Daffanka]

From Josh Gross's twitter:

 

# The Dream light heavyweight grand prix set for May 29 has been cancelled. Fighter reps were told Wednesday. Still working on the reason. about 9 hours ago via web

 

 

# Looks like the reason for the cancellation is an issue between Dream and its TV partner, TBS. about 9 hours ago via web

 

Bummer, we might've gotten some interesting fights out of it (King Mo vs X). Poor Mousasi too, the reason he took the SF contract is because he wanted in on this GP.

[Dustin]

So I'm about to be very vague here and the information I give out is nearly all I know about this fight.

 

I tuned into TNA a few weeks back and they were showing an Unleashed fight. This guy was a bloody mess, they stopped the fight to check on the cut which was like right above the eye because Rogan was talking about thats almost an automatic stop. The fight restarts and the other guy just pounds on his face, blood is going everywhere and out of nowhere the bloody guy traps him in a triangle for the win.

 

Does anybody have a clue what fight I might be talking about? I doubt it but its worth a shot.

 

Josh Neer/Melvin Guillard comes to mind.