The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Basmat01]

I went to a UFC party last night. I sat in a room with 20 people. I was the ONLY one cheering for Lesnar. Every other one was a anti-wrestling dumbass who could only say that Lesnar can't fight he is just into that fake ****. Ummm ok Lesnar was one of the baddest amateur wrestlers known to man. Anyway...So Brock won me almost $200 last night. Better then that I got to make my rounds around the room and tell each one of them to kiss my ass

 

LMAO.

 

there really is alot of hate for brock isnt there. But he is the guy fans love to hate and has/will make UFC alot of money because of that

[GruntMark]

I pull for Lesnar specifically because he annoys people so much.

 

Its hilarious.

[Trashbear]

I love Brock because:

 

A. I was a successful amateur wrestler (at the lowest possible level), and when he was at his peak in college, everyone on my team thought he was awesome and couldn't believe that a guy who looked the way he did could do the things he does.

 

B. I was a huge mark for him in the WWE.

 

C. I love to see the disappointment on people's faces when he beats whoever they're pulling for. Brock was more mature and humble in his victory speech, which is great. But I sort of hoped that he would stick it right up everyone's ass again.

 

Last night, my heart caught in my throat when Carwin was firing off his bombs. I was positive that it was going to be stopped, even though Brock was defending himself well. And when he got the takedown in Round 2, I breathed easy knowing that once he gets the top, he's almost impossible to stop. It was a great effort by Carwin to do what he does best, and it showed the poise of Lesnar that he didn't allow himself to be put away.

 

I was elated, but the road only becomes more difficult, because Cain Velasquez is, to my mind, a better MMA fighter than Carwin. Brock of course will gameplan and train and he'll be prepared for him, but Velasquez is serious business. I can't wait for them to showdown, because while I don't think he's better than everyone else, I know that Brock can beat Velasquez. But will he? That's a question that has me very excited.

 

On another note...I think Leben may have just made himself a superstar. You wrestling guys know the moments that take a guy and "make" him, right? Last night's choke submission at the tail end of a very hard fought battle was one of those moments. I loved last night's whole show, I was very entertained, and I couldn't be happier that Brock won.

[The Shape]

Was pleased with how Lesnar handled himself afterwards, perfect blend of being a bit of a showman with the chin-tapping and the "I'm still the baddest..." line but also showing some class during and after his interview. You can tell his heart is really in this, he's thankful for every minute right now, and it's great to see.

 

And Leben...I was absolutely ecstatic when he pulled that off. I remember watching Akiyama's first UFC fight and he won a decision where I think some people weren't too happy, and it looked that he was gonna get the judgement again, and once again Leben would be frustrated by someone lying on top of him just like he was back on TUF lol. So to see him bust out a submission was just beautiful.

 

And Bonnar...

[TheKenwyne]

On another note...I think Leben may have just made himself a superstar. You wrestling guys know the moments that take a guy and "make" him, right? Last night's choke submission at the tail end of a very hard fought battle was one of those moments. I loved last night's whole show, I was very entertained, and I couldn't be happier that Brock won.

 

Chris Leben made himself a superstar on TUF 1 by being an oversensitive douchebag. To be fair I have huge respect for the guy stepping up and fighting a guy of Akiyama's quality on such short notice and even moreso considering he tapped a Judo black belt. I think he needs to go in with someone truly great - Wanderlei, Maia, Marquardt - and get squashed - he's a tough guy with a decent offensive guard, iron jaw and some vicious brawling but by no means is he a world class fighter. He's like a less refined version of Forrest Griffin.

[The Shape]

To be fair...he's been up against someone truly great before, been squashed, and it hasn't stopped him

[Daffanka]

Chris Leben made himself a superstar on TUF 1 by being an oversensitive douchebag. To be fair I have huge respect for the guy stepping up and fighting a guy of Akiyama's quality on such short notice and even moreso considering he tapped a Judo black belt. I think he needs to go in with someone truly great - Wanderlei, Maia, Marquardt - and get squashed - he's a tough guy with a decent offensive guard, iron jaw and some vicious brawling but by no means is he a world class fighter. He's like a less refined version of Forrest Griffin.

 

Akiyama has fought exactly two good fighters now and he's lost to both of them. He whined enough about one of the losses that it was changed into a NC and then went around telling everyone that he was openly challenging Misaki while doing his very best to not fight him (or any other good fighters.)

 

Also he's a cheater who greased up and loaded his gloves against Sakuraba which makes him the devil.

[Daffanka]

Slamming Dudes 101: A How-To Guide

http://i48.tinypic.com/2iszdia.gif

[RingofHonorGuard]

Slamming Dudes 101: A How-To Guide

http://i48.tinypic.com/2iszdia.gif

 

Slow motion ruins that GIF.... You seriously have to see it in real time to appreciate just how violent that collision between head and mat is. Harris seems to be a travelling wrecking machine now. He's been training with a plethora of guys since he was last in the UFC, and it's paying off. I expected a decision in the fight, not a flying triangle to Rock Spinebuster. Dwayne Johnson was in attendance... Harris should have been smart, raised his eyebrow and said "Do you smell what I'm cookin'?"

 

A lot of people on other forums I frequent are up in arms about Lesnar getting Submission of the Night bonus over Lytle. I'm not surprised at all... While Lytle's submission was more unique, it's not going to be remembered very far down the line. We've seen Lytle secure a lot of submissions(and to be fair the guy has won a ridiculous amount of payouts for of the Night rewards) but last night I gotta give the edge to Brock, just for the fact that anyone with half a brain saw that submission coming, and he still applied it with ease. Carwin knew it was coming and he could do nothing to stop it, that shows you how good Brock's ground game is for a heavyweight. Not to mention he showed heart, which is something lacking in almost all champions. Lesnar didn't need the money at all, but his submission was more worthwhile and memorable for me.

[Trashbear]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/mmaufcnews/article10012795.shtml

 

I figured this video of JR, Steve Austin, Paul Heyman, and Bill Goldberg being interviewed after last night's event was appropriate for this forum, ya know?

 

Also, I want to point out that I think last night was a great card for people new to MMA. I imagine that at house parties and bars, a lot of new fans were introduced to the sport, and with a card that featured decisive finishes, exciting fights, and intriguing storylines and characters, 116 was very good for the UFC.

[Self]

Just watched Akiyama/Leben & Carwin/Lesnar. Awesome. I don't watch all that much MMA any more, but they rocked hard.

[Zoloftjunkie]

I have to say, if I was giving out the bonuses Lytle would of gotten sub of the night. It was very slick how he got it in. Lesnars was pretty easy for him cause Carwin was gassed and was no real defense left in him. I know the Brock fight was higher profile and will be talked about years down the road but that isn't what the reward is for that I know of.

 

Just rewatched the Brock fight and on second viewing I have to say that was pretty nice sub too. I won't say it is a tragedy that he got the sub of the night but I still believe Lytle was more unique and just edged it out. Either way we were in for some great treats as that was a hell of a show. For all the extra buys the show gets for the Lesnar fight, if that showing from top to bottom doesn't draw in the new fans to stick around and fall in love with the sport then nothing will.

[GatorBait19]

If I am correct Cain gets the next shot at Lesnar. I know Cain will go in as the underdog, but I really want Cain to win. I like Cain and believe 27 he still has room to grow. I am a big Cain mark

[TheKenwyne]

If I am correct Cain gets the next shot at Lesnar. I know Cain will go in as the underdog, but I really want Cain to win. I like Cain and believe 27 he still has room to grow. I am a big Cain mark

 

It wouldn't suprise me if Cain pulled the upset. He's got heavy hands (see: KO of Big Nog) and better boxing technique than Shane IMO. His wrestling's good too, but I think that Lesnar's size means he'll still be able to finish the shot - and I guess it will come down to how good Cain's matwork is off his back. Cain usually weighs in between 240-250 so he's no Cruiser-Heavy but he isn't a monster on the levels of Carwin/Lesnar, and he can still hit hard enough to put Mr Brock in trouble. One shot's all it takes, as Carwin showed, and unlike Carwin, Velasquez has a decidedly deeper gas tank.

[Dustin]

I like Cain very much but he won't win IMO. He would have to use a lot of movement and look for a decision by landing punches and kicks but I believe Brock will get him down and finish him.

[RingofHonorGuard]

The Cain who got clipped multiple times by Kongo is still looming somewhere in this "new and improved" one that KO'd Nogueira. Hey, if Carwin proved anything, it's you've always got a chance. Cain certainly has a better gas tank than Carwin, so we'll see. I just hope his standup has improved, and he didn't just land a lucky KO on Big Nog.

 

He's not going to have the wrestling to fall back on if he gets in trouble on his feet this time around(at least not every time). And you know with the way Lesnar performed on his feet at 116 that they'll be drilling pretty much nothing but standup for Cain...

[Daffanka]

I like Cain very much but he won't win IMO. He would have to use a lot of movement and look for a decision by landing punches and kicks but I believe Brock will get him down and finish him.

 

I don't know if that's true.

 

Brock clearly showed he's not, and will never be, a striker. He got hit with a running uppercut and just ran straight back and paid for it by getting tagged a lot more. Cain's offense is much crisper and varied than Carwin's and if Brock ends up with Cain in the same position Carwin was in, or even just pushing him into the fence that's a dangerous spot.

 

The wrestling difference is where I think most people are tricked by credentials. Brock is obviously a lot more decorated than Cain but Cain wrestled in a period where the heavyweight collegiate scene was the best there ever was and the two greatest wrestlers of that time, Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco, couldn't get him down and ended up winning on points in overtime. Meanwhile the only really great wrestlers Lesnar had to contend with was Stephen Neal in his first year, who beat him, and no one in his second which is when he got the title.

 

I mean both Couture, Herring and Carwin manged to stuff Lesnar's shots. Cain is a better wrestler than all of them.

 

I think cardio is going to play a big part as well. Velasquez is a guy who's clearly got really good cardio, especially for a heavyweight. I don't think he'd be one to spend three minutes punching Lesnar's arms either, apart from landing the elbows that was pretty terrible by Carwin.

 

It's not a lock for either guy is what I'm trying to say. It's an interesting fight to say the least and I don't think it's going to end with an easy submission because one of the fighters totally gassed out.

[GatorBait19]

I don't know if that's true.

 

Brock clearly showed he's not, and will never be, a striker. He got hit with a running uppercut and just ran straight back and paid for it by getting tagged a lot more. Cain's offense is much crisper and varied than Carwin's and if Brock ends up with Cain in the same position Carwin was in, or even just pushing him into the fence that's a dangerous spot.

 

The wrestling difference is where I think most people are tricked by credentials. Brock is obviously a lot more decorated than Cain but Cain wrestled in a period where the heavyweight collegiate scene was the best there ever was and the two greatest wrestlers of that time, Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco, couldn't get him down and ended up winning on points in overtime. Meanwhile the only really great wrestlers Lesnar had to contend with was Stephen Neal in his first year, who beat him, and no one in his second which is when he got the title.

 

I mean both Couture, Herring and Carwin manged to stuff Lesnar's shots. Cain is a better wrestler than all of them.

 

I think cardio is going to play a big part as well. Velasquez is a guy who's clearly got really good cardio, especially for a heavyweight. I don't think he'd be one to spend three minutes punching Lesnar's arms either, apart from landing the elbows that was pretty terrible by Carwin.

 

It's not a lock for either guy is what I'm trying to say. It's an interesting fight to say the least and I don't think it's going to end with an easy submission because one of the fighters totally gassed out.

 

It's Cole one of Lesnar's sparring partners? If so wouldn't that put Cain at another disadvantage?

 

It's like someone said about Lesnar, he is so hard to prepare for because he evolves so much between each fight.

[Daffanka]

It's Cole one of Lesnar's sparring partners? If so wouldn't that put Cain at another disadvantage?

 

It's like someone said about Lesnar, he is so hard to prepare for because he evolves so much between each fight.

 

Lesnar's camp is really, really good. He's got Konrad, Camprido, Peter Welsh (sp?) and a bunch of other guys. Having other 260lbs wrestlers is an advantage I don't think any other HWs have.

 

Cain trains at AKA though so I don't think there's that much of a difference.

 

And that last bit can be said about Cain as well. He completely blitzed Big Nog who wasn't at all prepared for someone who throws, you know, technically proficient punches.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Lesnar's camp is really, really good. He's got Konrad, Camprido, Peter Welsh (sp?) and a bunch of other guys. Having other 260lbs wrestlers is an advantage I don't think any other HWs have.

 

Cain trains at AKA though so I don't think there's that much of a difference.

 

And that last bit can be said about Cain as well. He completely blitzed Big Nog who wasn't at all prepared for someone who throws, you know, technically proficient punches.

 

I really like Cain, and think he's going to to be a champion eventually... I just don't think he'll beat Lesnar this time. That's not to say he won't put together three wins afterward and get a rematch. I see Lesnar/Velasquez being the next trilogy in the UFC, and it's going to end up just like Hughes/St. Pierre, which Lesnar winning the first, and Cain evolving too much and picking up the last two.

 

Comparing Brock's big money camps to AKA is laughable though. It's not even close to the same level of training. AKA is still mostly a kickboxing camp, it's still catching up in terms of other areas of MMA. Not to say they don't have a more than capable team, but Cain doesn't have training partners as good as Lesnar(Nor the money or ability to really bring in anyone and everyone like Lesnar can)... Cain's obviously got the same chance that Carwin had, if not more due to his better cardio... but I truly see Lesnar beating him in the first or second by TKO.

 

And for the record, I'm not one of those delusional nitwits who thinks just because Cain got rocked multiple times by Kongo that he's got a weak chin. I think he's still getting used to getting hit, as Kongo was really the first person to full on touch it. He survived it, and that proves he can take some punches and recover. We'll see how he handles it though when he's got a 265 Vanilla Gorilla laying on him and throwing bombs with stupid power from odd angles.

------------

 

Also, I think it's kind of lame to give Carwin credit for "stuffing" Lesnar's takedowns when he only stuffed one when he was absolutely fresh. The second round(regardless of whatever excuse Carwin wants to come up with) he got taken down with one of the sloppiest(albeit somewhat faster than normal) double legs in UFC Heavyweight history. I've seen people with no wrestling ability(or limited) defend takedowns for three rounds against more than capable wrestlers with nothing else. Carwin should have been able to do more than defend one takedown with a lucky wizer. There's too much credit given to people for stuffing one or two of Lesnar's shots... They might stuff a couple, but they don't stuff them all. Eventually Lesnar gets you to the ground, and everytime he's gotten someone there they've at the very least gotten beaten up bad. And in Herring's case, he was eating so many takedowns that he was bound by mathematical statistic to prevent at least a couple. Additionally, stuffing the takedowns of someone running at you with the force Lesnar does isn't going to do anything positive to your cardio.

 

I mean... look at it from a St. Pierre perspective. The guy has the same kind of wrestling style Lesnar does.... Just brutal force and runs through you. Every once in a while someone stuffs a St. Pierre takedown, doesn't change the outcome. St. Pierre and Lesnar are a lot alike in the fact that once they ground you, you aren't getting back up. Also, Lesnar's ability to pass the guard or make use of whatever guard he's got is becoming a real treat to watch.

 

Up to UFC 50 on my quest to view all of them again... Kerri Kasem did the post-fight interviews on this show... What a double dose of ugly. Ugly voice and she looks like a much younger(and uglier) Cher. It's amazing what being the daughter of a pop culture radio jockey can get you.

[Daffanka]

St. Pierre doesn't really bulldoze people though. He's got a monster double but his real strength is in his chain wrestling which allegedly caught Fitch completely unaware and isn't something that can be done without ridiculous athletic gifts.

 

I think the biggest difference is that St. Pierre actually has striking dangerous enough to make people think "maybe I should raise my hands so he doesn't punch me in the face." Also St. Pierre doesn't look like Bob Sapp when he gets punched.

 

I'm trying to lay off the theoretical fight talk so I'll just chip in with that Lesnar - Velasquez could happen as soon as UFC 119 assuming the doctors clear Lesnar. If it does happen that's three awesome cards in a row we can look forward to, five if you retroactively count 115 and 116. Then there's some UK cards headlined by Bisping and Hardy

[Dustin]

I hope they hold off on the fight until December so they can bring back "The Ultimate" this year.

 

Brock vs. Cain

GSP vs. Koscheck

Chuck vs. Tito 3

Wand vs. Leben

[RingofHonorGuard]

I hope they hold off on the fight until December so they can bring back "The Ultimate" this year.

 

Brock vs. Cain

GSP vs. Koscheck

Chuck vs. Tito 3

Wand vs. Leben

 

Sounds like an awesome card, but I can't see them keeping Lesnar out that long since Cain is healthy and waiting. Also, doubt we'd see Chuck/Tito 3 on that card, as it would sell enough buys by itself even with Chuck coming off a loss to Franklin. That fight will be on PPV by itself as the main event because people will always want to see Chuck punch Tito, and the Tito fans of the world will always buy it in hopes Tito can "get one back for the team."

[Dustin]

"We could have a show [in the U.S.] on Saturday night and five more going on in five other countries."

 

How would this ever work? As far as I know, all the events they do now are shown in the US, UK, Canada and all of their other current markets. Would these be small shows to build up fighters in that area and eventually move the good ones over to the global events kind of like the WWE does with the events that are never shown on TV?

 

Source: http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2010/07/04/dana-white-reveals-head-of-operations-for-china-already-hired-office-opening-imminently/

[RingofHonorGuard]

"We could have a show [in the U.S.] on Saturday night and five more going on in five other countries."

 

How would this ever work? As far as I know, all the events they do now are shown in the US, UK, Canada and all of their other current markets. Would these be small shows to build up fighters in that area and eventually move the good ones over to the global events kind of like the WWE does with the events that are never shown on TV?

 

Source: http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2010/07/04/dana-white-reveals-head-of-operations-for-china-already-hired-office-opening-imminently/

 

Maybe they're referring to something similar to what WWF did with Wrestlemania 3. They had multiple shows going on around the United States that were under the same banner. Think of it like that.