[RELEASE] Risky Business (Jan 1985)

[YoungNoble]

After what you said, I'd say keep the Vince loyalties. That Bobby wanted to stay but couldn't get paid enough says to me he must have been loyal. And as I said, the other two stuck around forever. So yeah; good call on the loyalties.

 

But wouldn't that come with time? He was still relatively new at this point. We have no reason to think that there was loyalty in 1985

[Mattywood]

But wouldn't that come with time? He was still relatively new at this point. We have no reason to think that there was loyalty in 1985

 

That's why I was taking out the Heenan one after thinking about it. The user character can always earn it with random incidents.

[The Final Countdown]

And I wish that diary would make its return! Hope everything works out well in your sims.

I'd like to think it will be back at some point, but I haven't heard from Ritchardo in about three months, which complicates things. I don't think I'd have all that much interest in returning to that game world by myself, largely because since the WWF (rightly) starts out head and shoulders above everyone else in that mod, there's no real competition to deal with.

 

So I simmed to 1990, to the night after Wrestlemania VI. Mid-South went out of business in August of '85, but they were the only recognizable company to fold. The WWF, JCP and AWA are all still alive and kicking and almost neck and neck in popularity as far as the US in concerned. JCP and AWA joined the WWF at Cult during '85, and all three companies had remained there for years, until JCP finally hit National in May of '89. They dropped back down the following month, but rose back up in December and have managed to remain there for the past four months. I'm surprised they haven't left the competition in the dust given how much better their shows are; they've had a total of 72 shows achieve an A rating, while the WWF has only ever managed it once and the AWA has pulled an A 12 times.

 

Despite that, the WWF is still the #1 ranked company overall (Crockett is #2 and AWA is #4, with EMLL sandwiched in between.) It's a different story entirely when you look at Influence, where JCP is #1, AWA #5 and WWF #6. The big three all have a pretty nice war chest built up, so I don't think any of them would go out of business any time soon.

 

Ric Flair is hands-down the most over worker in the US, as he's by himself in the Huge Star tier. Each of the big three has multiple workers in the Star tier: the WWF has 2, AWA 3 and JCP 5. When you factor in Flair as well, it's easy to see why JCP's shows are so consistently great. They have a fantastic main event scene with really over workers who are also great in the ring.

 

One suggestion that I would make based on this one simulation is to increase Vince McMahon's roster turnover as an owner. With it set to Low, the WWF's roster stayed almost exactly the same year in and year out. I simmed four years leaving it alone, and in all that time they signed two new male wrestlers (Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk) and no one of consequence left aside from Tito Santana and Brutus Beefcake. I bumped it up to High the night after WMV, and in that one year several older stars like Andre, Orton, Volkoff and John Studd left and were replaced with newer, younger wrestlers like Undertaker, Arn Anderson, Sting and Kerry Von Erich.

[Mattywood]

I'd like to think it will be back at some point, but I haven't heard from Ritchardo in about three months, which complicates things. I don't think I'd have all that much interest in returning to that game world by myself, largely because since the WWF (rightly) starts out head and shoulders above everyone else in that mod, there's no real competition to deal with.

 

So I simmed to 1990, to the night after Wrestlemania VI. Mid-South went out of business in August of '85, but they were the only recognizable company to fold. The WWF, JCP and AWA are all still alive and kicking and almost neck and neck in popularity as far as the US in concerned. JCP and AWA joined the WWF at Cult during '85, and all three companies had remained there for years, until JCP finally hit National in May of '89. They dropped back down the following month, but rose back up in December and have managed to remain there for the past four months. I'm surprised they haven't left the competition in the dust given how much better their shows are; they've had a total of 72 shows achieve an A rating, while the WWF has only ever managed it once and the AWA has pulled an A 12 times.

 

Despite that, the WWF is still the #1 ranked company overall (Crockett is #2 and AWA is #4, with EMLL sandwiched in between.) It's a different story entirely when you look at Influence, where JCP is #1, AWA #5 and WWF #6. The big three all have a pretty nice war chest built up, so I don't think any of them would go out of business any time soon.

 

Ric Flair is hands-down the most over worker in the US, as he's by himself in the Huge Star tier. Each of the big three has multiple workers in the Star tier: the WWF has 2, AWA 3 and JCP 5. When you factor in Flair as well, it's easy to see why JCP's shows are so consistently great. They have a fantastic main event scene with really over workers who are also great in the ring.

 

One suggestion that I would make based on this one simulation is to increase Vince McMahon's roster turnover as an owner. With it set to Low, the WWF's roster stayed almost exactly the same year in and year out. I simmed four years leaving it alone, and in all that time they signed two new male wrestlers (Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk) and no one of consequence left aside from Tito Santana and Brutus Beefcake. I bumped it up to High the night after WMV, and in that one year several older stars like Andre, Orton, Volkoff and John Studd left and were replaced with newer, younger wrestlers like Undertaker, Arn Anderson, Sting and Kerry Von Erich.

 

Thanks for all this. I made those changes, so it'll be interesting to see how things play out. I'm also going to be changing the title change frequency settings for Vince from Average to Frequent. I think I already changed George Scott from Infrequent to Average, and already saw the IC Title and Tag Titles change hands in a watcher game, so I should be good there.

 

How would people feel about me taking out the Media Groups for now? I would need to do some work to jot down all the TV deals before taking out the TV Networks and Media Groups, then adding them back in. So taking out the Media Groups might be the easier thing to do. I know it's not the perfect solution in regards to the bug with Media Groups (which apparently is because my mod has errors in it... how it picked them up, I don't know), but it might be the most feasible if I want to get Version 2.1 out there to ya'll.

[Jaysin]

I'm sorry for finding such an annoying error.

 

I asked in my tech support thread how this error occurs and Adam responded with:

 

It's usually because the data was created or imported in an unpatched or early version of one of the TEWs when there was a glitch, as then the error is already in place and so gets past any future checks or fixes that are added.

[The Final Countdown]

George Scott is at Average, yes. Each belt generally has two title changes per year, which is maybe a little high for this era but not too bad. Keep in mind that that's with the two weekly events that frequently see title matches, so they usually have 30-40 title defenses in most reigns.

 

Another thing that I happened to notice as I was looking through the game world was that UWF Japan had gone three years without running a show (while still remaining active and on a full time schedule.) I'd seen something similar happen with one of the puro feds in TGAAB, so I knew what to look for. What happened was that a couple of their guys got poached and there weren't enough workers available for them to sign who fit all of their hiring rules. They didn't have a large enough roster to run any shows, so they just kept cancelling them. I went into the editor and deleted a couple of their hiring restrictions, and they immediately signed a couple of guys and held their next scheduled show a week later.

 

Good luck with the media groups. That sounds like a messy issue.

[Mattywood]

I'm sorry for finding such an annoying error.

 

You shouldn't feel bad about finding it. I just wish that I had known about this error sooner.

 

 

George Scott is at Average, yes. Each belt generally has two title changes per year, which is maybe a little high for this era but not too bad. Keep in mind that that's with the two weekly events that frequently see title matches, so they usually have 30-40 title defenses in most reigns.

 

Another thing that I happened to notice as I was looking through the game world was that UWF Japan had gone three years without running a show (while still remaining active and on a full time schedule.) I'd seen something similar happen with one of the puro feds in TGAAB, so I knew what to look for. What happened was that a couple of their guys got poached and there weren't enough workers available for them to sign who fit all of their hiring rules. They didn't have a large enough roster to run any shows, so they just kept cancelling them. I went into the editor and deleted a couple of their hiring restrictions, and they immediately signed a couple of guys and held their next scheduled show a week later.

 

Good luck with the media groups. That sounds like a messy issue.

 

Hmmm, which hiring rules did you get rid of for UWF Japan? I may have to take that into consideration for the 2.1 update. Speaking of in-game oddities, it seems that JCP always seems to vacate the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, then creates a new Low Level Title. I may go ahead and lower the TV Title to Low Level to prevent the AI from doing that as any competent player booking JCP knows how to handle the titles. Not sure what to do for the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, though, without bloating the roster and without setting things out of whack by upping Denny Brown's popularity.

[The Final Countdown]

Hmmm, which hiring rules did you get rid of for UWF Japan? I may have to take that into consideration for the 2.1 update. Speaking of in-game oddities, it seems that JCP always seems to vacate the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, then creates a new Low Level Title. I may go ahead and lower the TV Title to Low Level to prevent the AI from doing that as any competent player booking JCP knows how to handle the titles. Not sure what to do for the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, though, without bloating the roster and without setting things out of whack by upping Denny Brown's popularity.

I dropped all the ones that stipulated a minimum level of skill and the one about no Japanese Juniors, but I'm betting you could eliminate just the ones about skill levels and avoid the problem. Or if nothing else, maybe lower the minimum skills required so they don't need to try and field a roster of Japanese guys not under written deal with NJPW or AJPW with at least C grades in chain and mat wrestling.

 

I hadn't noticed it, but you're right about the titles. The junior title is retired and they created a low level title in '85. (And they named it the #1 Contender title, which is a pretty funny choice given the guys who are fighting over it. ) I'd say dropping the TV title to low level is the best solution.

[Anderz]

Really like the look of this so far Matt; I've not had a proper look into everything yet or started a test game but first impressions are good.

 

Is 2.1 on the cards pretty soon? I'm inclined to wait for that to start a proper game if so.

 

I'll start playing around with a tester game for now and report back if there's anything I find!

[Mattywood]

Really like the look of this so far Matt; I've not had a proper look into everything yet or started a test game but first impressions are good.

 

Is 2.1 on the cards pretty soon? I'm inclined to wait for that to start a proper game if so.

 

I'll start playing around with a tester game for now and report back if there's anything I find!

 

I'm close to releasing 2.1, but I'm more than happy to wait to see if you notice anything in your test run.

 

Speaking of 2.1, I tinkered with the stats a bit, specifically, lowering the basics and psychology of Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff, and lowered Andre the Giant's psychology to 75.

 

Hulk Hogan is now at 72 for basics and 76 for psychology; Roddy Piper to 80 for both; and Paul Orndorff to 82 for both. Seeing as that they're respective pops are lower than their basics and psychology, and seeing as that the WWF's highest pops (Tri State and New England) are at 65, I felt it was right to lower them a bit because I thought that maybe I had them overrated in those two areas.

 

I have also added the King of the Ring title, with a prestige of 60 since it's the first year for the title (thank you franticloser for that find).

[Oyaji]

How have you found these universal skill and popularity decreases have changed the way the mod plays? Is Japan still overpowered with too many A rated matches? I went over the main stars and they looked just about perfect, so that's good. But, has this changed survival rates for companies?

 

I applaud the work you've put into this project after its release, Matt. Congrats and trying to find that perfect balance (if such a thing exists!). I think it's come a long way and I'm looking forward to finding time to get a long play in as either Mid-South or JCP.

[Mattywood]

How have you found these universal skill and popularity decreases have changed the way the mod plays? Is Japan still overpowered with too many A rated matches? I went over the main stars and they looked just about perfect, so that's good. But, has this changed survival rates for companies?

 

I applaud the work you've put into this project after its release, Matt. Congrats and trying to find that perfect balance (if such a thing exists!). I think it's come a long way and I'm looking forward to finding time to get a long play in as either Mid-South or JCP.

 

I haven't had a chance to run a long term watcher game since the pop and worker skill decreases, but I will say from playing as the WWF, I'm quite happy with the ratings I get for matches and segments, and I'm able to increase popularity in the regions the WWF is seen by closing out the show with a rotation of Hogan, Piper, Orndorff, Andre, Snuka, Orton, and even Muraco, Tito and JYD. But as far as survival rates, again, I haven't run a long term watcher game, so I can't say on that yet. And thanks for the kind words, everyone.

[Anderz]

I've only stumbled across two things so far (and don't know if either have already been noted):

 

WWF Championship Wrestling is a 90 minute show whereas I think it was always 60 minutes (this is going from what I can find online and the shows I've seen - which are all around the 40/45 minute mark without adverts). I figured this was to improve gameplay but it's worth pointing out.

 

The second is Paul Roma's debut date; it's down as November-1985 but he was working as a jobber on Championship Wrestling as early as January 5th (taped in December I assume)

 

I'll add anything as I stumble across it; but nothing major out of place so I'm just nitpicking.

 

Edit:// In my efforts to add a load of jobbers from Championship Wrestling to add to the WWF. I can't find Mario Mancini, Dave Barbie, Gino Carabello, Joe Mirto or Paul Kelly. I can't see there being much desire to have them added but if you want some more faceless jobbers there's a few. Of them, from what I can see - Dave Barbie was the one with the best look but I've not had a look into what any of them did over the years so it's doubtful there's any point researching them.

 

Edit 2:// King of the Ring was in July for the first two years; then September and October until 1991. Semantics again.

[Mattywood]

I've only stumbled across two things so far (and don't know if either have already been noted):

 

WWF Championship Wrestling is a 90 minute show whereas I think it was always 60 minutes (this is going from what I can find online and the shows I've seen - which are all around the 40/45 minute mark without adverts). I figured this was to improve gameplay but it's worth pointing out.

 

The second is Paul Roma's debut date; it's down as November-1985 but he was working as a jobber on Championship Wrestling as early as January 5th (taped in December I assume)

 

I'll add anything as I stumble across it; but nothing major out of place so I'm just nitpicking.

 

Edit:// In my efforts to add a load of jobbers from Championship Wrestling to add to the WWF. I can't find Mario Mancini, Dave Barbie, Gino Carabello, Joe Mirto or Paul Kelly. I can't see there being much desire to have them added but if you want some more faceless jobbers there's a few. Of them, from what I can see - Dave Barbie was the one with the best look but I've not had a look into what any of them did over the years so it's doubtful there's any point researching them.

 

Edit 2:// King of the Ring was in July for the first two years; then September and October until 1991. Semantics again.

 

Championship Wrestling being 90 minutes was indeed for gameplay purposes given the WWF's roster (even after trimming it down). If I left it at 60, the AI might book three matches at most.

 

I'll fix Paul Roma's debut date. I thought I had seen November 1985 somewhere, but it could easily just have been a mistake.

 

I actually wanted to throw in a few more jobbers (especially the ones you mentioned), but I don't think there are any Organic cuts of them in the nGo Generations picture pack at this time. If justtxyank ever makes cuts for them, or allows someone to make cuts for them and add them to an expansion pack, then I can consider adding those jobbers in a DLC release.

 

And King of the Ring being in June is again for gameplay. It's the month most everyone associates with the event, and there's no way to have the AI simulate it being in July, then switching it to September, then October, then June. I figured if people wanted to, they could just switch it themselves so long as they remember to change the month that the King of the Ring Title is contested for in accordance to the KOTR event. Thanks for all those findings! ^_^

[Mattywood]

Sorry about that. I had uploaded then realized I forgot to delete a couple of UWF Japan's hiring rules. Now the first post is updated with the most up to date data. Anywho, the UWF Japan hiring rules that were deleted were "Style cannot be Japanese Junior" and "Minimum Grade C Chain Wrestling" for those who want to add them back. Also, I decided that it would be more feasible gameplay-wise to have Jushin Liger in the database as Jushin Thunder Liger and have his unmasked Keiichi Yamada as an alter ego set at 0%. That way, he can build up the mask prestige to go with the Jushin Thunder Liger character.

[Big Mikey]

Does this update have the network issue fixed? Going to give this mod a go when it is. Want to sign up a bunch of guys on written deals. Have no idea what's going on though other than hulkamania runnin wild and from what i've seen on some of my documentary dvd's.

[Mattywood]

Does this update have the network issue fixed? Going to give this mod a go when it is. Want to sign up a bunch of guys on written deals. Have no idea what's going on though other than hulkamania runnin wild and from what i've seen on some of my documentary dvd's.

 

The network issue is when you set a company to be owned by a network. I haven't gotten around to fixing that because of the work that will have to go into getting that fixed, so for now I'm advising players not to set companies to be owned by networks.

[Big Mikey]

What about when ted turner buys wcw? Or can I take that out if I want and everything will still be fine.

[Mattywood]

What about when ted turner buys wcw? Or can I take that out if I want and everything will still be fine.

 

There's no narrative for Ted Turner buying WCW. If you want to do that, then I would suggest either using Ted as the user character and choosing JCP as the owner and changing it to WCW in the in-game editor, or before firing up a game, edit JCP to be WCW, give Ted Turner a contract and make him the owner. Or create a whole new company named WCW to be owned by Ted Turner.

[Big Mikey]

The big events WWF On Tour thursday and friday, were thse meant for AI puprose only so they make more money, or should I be keeping those in for myself as well?

[Mattywood]

The big events WWF On Tour thursday and friday, were thse meant for AI puprose only so they make more money, or should I be keeping those in for myself as well?

 

Meant to keep companies solvent so they don't go belly up at the same point in time (such as WWF going belly up in February 1988) in every save.

[Jaysin]

Adolfo Tapia, Volador, and Volador Jr should have a blood relationship.

 

Rey Misterio Sr isn't related to Super Astro by blood, they're brothers in law.

 

Atsushi Onita should be set as On Hiatus, not Out of Business that way he can come back to wrestle and create FMW

[Mattywood]

Adolfo Tapia, Volador, and Volador Jr should have a blood relationship.

 

Rey Misterio Sr isn't related to Super Astro by blood, they're brothers in law.

 

Atsushi Onita should be set as On Hiatus, not Out of Business that way he can come back to wrestle and create FMW

 

The relationships will be fixed.

 

The Onita one I've gone back and forth on. Right now there is a narrative that mentions his return, with instructions to change his status.

[Jaysin]

His starting status of Out Of Business puts a cap on his stat growth since in the game's eyes, he's never returning.

[Mattywood]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="38592" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>His starting status of Out Of Business puts a cap on his stat growth since in the game's eyes, he's never returning.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's a facet of the game I never know about. I'll switch him to On Hiatus then and take out the narrative.</p>