TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[Poputt]

The Auto-Push is so misleading, especially when putting things into categories that don't mean anything. Who actually opens their shows with Openers?

 

I'm not sure if I'll like the new system since I haven't played it, but it is likely going to be a massive step in the right direction because of issues like that. It's unfortunate that the way the system used to work was to actively lie to players who trusted what the game was telling them. And on top of that, the push system would cause workers to get upset if they were being under-pushed, causing players to perpetuate using the auto-push system that was often screwing them.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I personally never used auto push. I always set the push levels myself. Yes sometimes I get guys complain about where they are but that is why I wanted the ability to talk with the roster. If we still have a way to tell workers how we are going to use them then that would be great.

[Derek B]

First of all TEW has never been an accurate simulation of real life in almost any facet and it never will be because doing is impossible, especially in a world like wrestling. SI has failed to acccurately portray reality in Football Manager for over a decade despite having a huge budget compared to most. I play it quite often and the lack of realism makes a better gaming experience

 

Second, it isn’t at all how real life works, as in real life, workers generally gain popularity much faster than they do in TEW with a big enough push.

 

Brock would’ve been likely no better than a midcarder with exact mirror booking of his run up until SummerSlam with The Rock, especially given his win over Hulk Hogan on TV like 4 months into his WWE was on Smackdown which probably gains you like 2 overness because it’s on TV and not a prestigious annual event.

 

 

 

Thirdly, the fans “accepting” anything is irrelevant, the game has nothing to do with fans, it’s rated in grades. Grades are earned through a combination of skills and popularity relative to popularity. Ergo, if you had a star worker capable of grading better than his popularity would suggest, it made sense to give him a higher push.

 

Now the game arbitrarily tells you this guy isn’t popular enough and your show sucks despite getting good grades.

 

I'm going to write a lengthy response here to try to flesh out some of the finer detail of the new system with regards some of the examples used recently in the thread. I know I have the advantage of seeing the new TEW2020 system in action so I hope this doesn't come off as a lecture, but more of an example of some of the differences between TEW16 and TEW20 with some real life examples.

 

..........

 

I think you are falling into the same trap that most people playing TEW make.... and that is mistaking good momentum at a specific period in time with actual overness. Which is why in so many older mods you would see someone in WWE being at a high level of popularity, get released and suddenly lose 20 points so that they could fit in with their inevitable TNA hiring.

 

In reality, the effects of Recent Fortunes offer big bonuses to popularity as it's a result of good booking, which helps people to get great reactions. The two effects stack, leading to a loud crowd reaction made of both factors. When people ignore the effects of Recent Fortunes they end up inflating Overness to balance that, which leads to people thinking workers should have more overness then they actually do.

 

Which leads into the original Brock Lesnar example perfectly as he's one of the fastest rises ever. He came into the WWE with next to 0 popularity. In TEW terms, he was showcased in some early dominating angles using his excellent menace (boosted further by star quality) to beat people who were rated on Selling/Overness. Combined with TEW's Low Popularity Mechanics that help get people up to around 25% of company popularity more quickly, Brock was gaining popularity and Recent Fortunes at a rapid pace up to about 30 points of overness. Over the next 2/3 months he dominated a bunch of people (boosts to Recent Fortunes, strong overness gains from beating people more over than him) up to winning King Of The Ring at which point he's probably at about 70 points of overness (your opinion may vary here) with his Recent Fortunes at near max levels and his segment ratings. That's 13 broadcast matches by a count from Cagematch, and a 70 point gain... even if angles accounted for half of that, he's still gaining close to 3 points per match, and he lost some of those by DQ. He had about 7 more broadcast matches up until he beat The Rock at Summerslam, losing a couple of them by DQ too. How high to you truly believe his popularity to be at this point? 80? 85? 90? And how much more popular did he become? Because if he got MORE popular then he clearly wasn't at the highest he could be, which would be 100.

 

The point being... this is the fastest rising star of all time and if he were to gain 3 points of overness per show he appeared on, he'd be hitting 100 points by the time he beat The Rock at Summerslam. And people complain that overness gains are too slow, yet even using the fastest rising example ever he's doing it at a rate slower than TEW16 currently allows.

 

In short... Brock Lesnar had amazing Recent Fortunes, which made up for the lack of top level overness. In TEW16, this would mean he'd likely still be pushed as an Upper Midcarder given how many top level stars the company had. In TEW20, the combination of Recent Fortunes AND pretty good overness actually stacks as part of Perception, so Brock Lesnar would absolutely be considered a Star or Major Star by that point. At the same time, guys like Hulk Hogan who had huge Overness but far lower Recent Fortunes would be at roughly the same level as Lesnar. The strength of booking matters much more now in terms of how the fans view your roster, it's not as simple as having a raw level of Overness as it used to be.

 

I feel like I've written a lot and that I'm still missing some finer points... but I hope that makes sense.

 

I personally never used auto push. I always set the push levels myself. Yes sometimes I get guys complain about where they are but that is why I wanted the ability to talk with the roster. If we still have a way to tell workers how we are going to use them then that would be great.

 

There are no complaints about push levels now since there are no pushes. TEW16 had that weird, broken logic where you could just set a push regardless of what your fans thought about workers. Now the Perception feature covers exactly what your fans think of workers based on your company size, their overness and your booking. It's far more intuitive, removes workarounds and replaces them with common sense. I think when people see it in action they will be able to see it far better than any written explanation I can give has managed to do.

 

Ultimately, I'm just hoping people understand the feature and don't go in with misconceptions about it. Onne of the hardest parts of hyping a game pre-release is making sure people don't start misunderstanding things before they've even seen them. And after release, it's all about making sure people learn how things are meant to be done instead of pushing common misconceptions. I've accidentally started some misconceptions in the past that I still sometimes see on the forum, so I always try to help people understand features and the many complexities behind them. It's why I wrote the TEW13 Mod Making Guide too... because at that point there were so many mods makers looking for help and it was easier to put it all into one place than respond to all the individual questions.

[RatedRKO16]

Awesome explanation Derek. Thanks for taking time to explain those things.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Honestly, I think Brock would and should have auto-pushed to a midcarder at that point. He'd picked up some wins, and developed great momentum, but true popularity takes time. Lucky for him, WWE weren't using the auto-push. They wanted him as a main eventer, with no usage limits, and paired him with big megastars to make sure his matches got over despite his lack of popularity. Plus Heyman was there to lend his popularity to things too.

 

This is part of why I'm glad things are changing. The Auto-Push is so misleading, especially when putting things into categories that don't mean anything. Who actually opens their shows with Openers?

 

I do think popularity gains on TV is too slow though. It has always felt backwards to me that someone winning in front of a million viewers on TV makes less of an impact than doing it in front of 50,000 on PPV.

 

Yes I agree with you entirely, he should’ve been autopushed to midcarder but WWE pushed him as a Main Eventer.

 

Sort of like how I just described in my push with Anders Thunder which was done almost the same exact way.

 

 

My problem is now you cannot do that. I don’t think people understand how large the overuse penalties are on show grades, they are ridiculous. Sometimes 5-6 points for one worker.

 

 

 

 

As for Derek, there’s absolutely no way those numbers are even in the ballpark, you are not gaining 3 overness per match on TV. You will gain 1 at best and usually less than 1 unless your SQ is massive(so Brock may apply) .

 

 

You are probably talking mid 50s to low 60s by SummerSlam in TEW and that’s only because he’ll got to 35 or so by default.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I'm going to write a lengthy response here to try to flesh out some of the finer detail of the new system with regards some of the examples used recently in the thread. I know I have the advantage of seeing the new TEW2020 system in action so I hope this doesn't come off as a lecture, but more of an example of some of the differences between TEW16 and TEW20 with some real life examples.

 

..........

 

I think you are falling into the same trap that most people playing TEW make.... and that is mistaking good momentum at a specific period in time with actual overness. Which is why in so many older mods you would see someone in WWE being at a high level of popularity, get released and suddenly lose 20 points so that they could fit in with their inevitable TNA hiring.

 

In reality, the effects of Recent Fortunes offer big bonuses to popularity as it's a result of good booking, which helps people to get great reactions. The two effects stack, leading to a loud crowd reaction made of both factors. When people ignore the effects of Recent Fortunes they end up inflating Overness to balance that, which leads to people thinking workers should have more overness then they actually do.

 

Which leads into the original Brock Lesnar example perfectly as he's one of the fastest rises ever. He came into the WWE with next to 0 popularity. In TEW terms, he was showcased in some early dominating angles using his excellent menace (boosted further by star quality) to beat people who were rated on Selling/Overness. Combined with TEW's Low Popularity Mechanics that help get people up to around 25% of company popularity more quickly, Brock was gaining popularity and Recent Fortunes at a rapid pace up to about 30 points of overness. Over the next 2/3 months he dominated a bunch of people (boosts to Recent Fortunes, strong overness gains from beating people more over than him) up to winning King Of The Ring at which point he's probably at about 70 points of overness (your opinion may vary here) with his Recent Fortunes at near max levels and his segment ratings. That's 13 broadcast matches by a count from Cagematch, and a 70 point gain... even if angles accounted for half of that, he's still gaining close to 3 points per match, and he lost some of those by DQ. He had about 7 more broadcast matches up until he beat The Rock at Summerslam, losing a couple of them by DQ too. How high to you truly believe his popularity to be at this point? 80? 85? 90? And how much more popular did he become? Because if he got MORE popular then he clearly wasn't at the highest he could be, which would be 100.

 

The point being... this is the fastest rising star of all time and if he were to gain 3 points of overness per show he appeared on, he'd be hitting 100 points by the time he beat The Rock at Summerslam. And people complain that overness gains are too slow, yet even using the fastest rising example ever he's doing it at a rate slower than TEW16 currently allows.

 

In short... Brock Lesnar had amazing Recent Fortunes, which made up for the lack of top level overness. In TEW16, this would mean he'd likely still be pushed as an Upper Midcarder given how many top level stars the company had. In TEW20, the combination of Recent Fortunes AND pretty good overness actually stacks as part of Perception, so Brock Lesnar would absolutely be considered a Star or Major Star by that point. At the same time, guys like Hulk Hogan who had huge Overness but far lower Recent Fortunes would be at roughly the same level as Lesnar. The strength of booking matters much more now in terms of how the fans view your roster, it's not as simple as having a raw level of Overness as it used to be.

 

I feel like I've written a lot and that I'm still missing some finer points... but I hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

There are no complaints about push levels now since there are no pushes. TEW16 had that weird, broken logic where you could just set a push regardless of what your fans thought about workers. Now the Perception feature covers exactly what your fans think of workers based on your company size, their overness and your booking. It's far more intuitive, removes workarounds and replaces them with common sense. I think when people see it in action they will be able to see it far better than any written explanation I can give has managed to do.

 

Ultimately, I'm just hoping people understand the feature and don't go in with misconceptions about it. Onne of the hardest parts of hyping a game pre-release is making sure people don't start misunderstanding things before they've even seen them. And after release, it's all about making sure people learn how things are meant to be done instead of pushing common misconceptions. I've accidentally started some misconceptions in the past that I still sometimes see on the forum, so I always try to help people understand features and the many complexities behind them. It's why I wrote the TEW13 Mod Making Guide too... because at that point there were so many mods makers looking for help and it was easier to put it all into one place than respond to all the individual questions.

 

 

Sounds promising.

 

It's one thing for the fans to perceive wrestlers but is there a way for the worker to perceive themselves? I know in the past when offering contracts you can tell a worker how they are going to be used (icon, gatekeeper, etc) it would be cool If that was expanded on to let your locker room know how they will be used. Maybe promise a worker a spot in the main event scene to boost his morale or promise them a belt.

 

Somewhat similar to how in Football a manager you can tell your players their role on the team.

[Historian]

Yes I agree with you entirely, he should’ve been autopushed to midcarder but WWE pushed him as a Main Eventer.

 

Sort of like how I just described in my push with Anders Thunder which was done almost the same exact way.

 

 

My problem is now you cannot do that. I don’t think people understand how large the overuse penalties are on show grades, they are ridiculous. Sometimes 5-6 points for one worker.

 

As for Derek, there’s absolutely no way those numbers are even in the ballpark, you are not gaining 3 overness per match on TV. You will gain 1 at best and usually less than 1 unless your SQ is massive(so Brock may apply) .

 

 

You are probably talking mid 50s to low 60s by SummerSlam in TEW and that’s only because he’ll got to 35 or so by default.

 

But you can still push as a main eventer? The new system does not take away from your ability to book them how you see them, it just gives you more accurate feedback of how they are actually seen -- so you can better see how your booking is moving them. I understand your worry about the overuse penalty, but the system before provided an artificial work around that also wasn't accurate.

 

For a modern example, WWE decided to push Jinder Mahal as a main eventer. They gave him the title and a multi-month reign. He was never accepted or perceived by the fans as a main eventer despite being pushed like this. In '16, you can artificially tell fans 'this guy is a main eventer so don't complain' but that's not how it works in reality either. Fans still have a perception. If they don't accept you or see you as a major star, you aren't one.

[Brushfire]

Honestly I just want the old pushes to available as tags to organize my roster. I'm fine with the game using fan perception to evaluate the results of my booking.

 

Example I want to be able to set Terry Gibbs as a jobber so that I can easily find him when I need someone to lose on TV. If I have Gibbs lose every week then my push of the guy will likely match the fans perception. If for so.e reason I have Gibbs beat Hulk Hogan clean every week maybe they won't see him the same way...

 

i think the new system could be better than the old if

 

1. There are ways to promise push via contract negotiations and morale control. (this was somewhat in the game before with giving workers an idea of how they would be used but if could be expanded if it's still in TEW 2020; When talking to players you could promise them a title shot, main event or be featured higher up the card.)

 

2. A way for the user to sort roster by card position. A sort of filter or tag.

 

With the way it is now, you may only use a worker who is perceived as a star in the company and only use him as a midcard for the moment because you either don’t have anything for him, he’s hit with a bad gimmick or one of those temp attributes got a hold of him...This would naturally upset fans and you’re pretty much using a star as a midcarder. True in a vice versa situation.

 

Same here - I'd love them just as arbitrary tags more than anything else. I've gotten far to used to them since EWR to not do so at this point.

 

While I'd really appreciate something like this being added, it's not really a problem for me if they aren't, as I'll just use my spreadsheet to monitor this. I guess I'd need to re-assess periodically against how the public perceives the wrestler, but that sounds like something that I should have to be do regardless of if the game doesn't help me out by having them complain about their push (which will probably still happen), or by using the auto-booker...

 

(also, first post! Didn't imagine it was going to be about this, but I've been lurking and thought I'd jump on this topic as it's one I've been thinking about since Perceptions were first announced )

[Derek B]

But you can still push as a main eventer? The new system does not take away from your ability to book them how you see them, it just gives you more accurate feedback of how they are actually seen -- so you can better see how your booking is moving them. I understand your worry about the overuse penalty, but the system before provided an artificial work around that also wasn't accurate.

 

For a modern example, WWE decided to push Jinder Mahal as a main eventer. They gave him the title and a multi-month reign. He was never accepted or perceived by the fans as a main eventer despite being pushed like this. In '16, you can artificially tell fans 'this guy is a main eventer so don't complain' but that's not how it works in reality either. Fans still have a perception. If they don't accept you or see you as a major star, you aren't one.

 

Indeed.

 

You can still book people as much as you want, and if you decide to book someone too much on one show then you will be hit with a penalty. That's how reality works, and now you don't have the option of just nonsensically manually changing a push. That's why you don't put people in matches that are too long when they aren't perceived as stars, and why perception can improve with good booking AND stacks with overness. It can make people who are actually less over SEEM like a bigger star IF you have built up to it. So... exactly how things should be.

 

A sidenote, there was also a journal entry that covers that the AI is able to do this sort of thing too by pushing and depushing workers too, so the AI can actually deliberately do things like a Brock Lesnar style push on it's own.

 

For other points raised, wrestlers will still use their own overness as a baseline for how the look at themselves. Personalities and other attributes will weigh in heavily on booking choices and should make for a very interesting and dynamic booking experience depending on the mix of personalities you have.

 

Another note based on comments above, I'm sure you will be able to view the perceptions in an easy list like you can with pushes in TEW16. Again, depending on personalities and attributes some workers may not want to lose to less popular people and whatnot but there will always be information like that handy as it's important stuff.

[SirMichaelJordan]

But you can still push as a main eventer? The new system does not take away from your ability to book them how you see them, it just gives you more accurate feedback of how they are actually seen -- so you can better see how your booking is moving them. I understand your worry about the overuse penalty, but the system before provided an artificial work around that also wasn't accurate.

 

For a modern example, WWE decided to push Jinder Mahal as a main eventer. They gave him the title and a multi-month reign. He was never accepted or perceived by the fans as a main eventer despite being pushed like this. In '16, you can artificially tell fans 'this guy is a main eventer so don't complain' but that's not how it works in reality either. Fans still have a perception. If they don't accept you or see you as a major star, you aren't one.

 

Somewhat off topic but i disagree about Jinder. He may not have been a superstar but i viewed him as a legit main eventer. He was booked as such.(recent fortunes, momentum, gimmick) People just couldn't get pass his past and I bet none of it would have mattered if they gave him a full reboot with a name change.

[BuddyGarner]

The problem I have with recent fortunes(it's been brought up per recent discussions) is it only goes back 5 matches. It should go back farther than that in my opinion. Momentum doesn't accurately simulate because it can be affected by turns/in ring performance/angle performance.

[RatedRKO16]

The problem I have with recent fortunes(it's been brought up per recent discussions) is it only goes back 5 matches. It should go back farther than that in my opinion. Momentum doesn't accurately simulate because it can be affected by turns/in ring performance/angle performance.

 

5 matches is about a month though. People have short term memories these days. Maybe in the 90s this should be more but for today it seems right on

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Somewhat off topic but i disagree about Jinder. He may not have been a superstar but i viewed him as a legit main eventer. He was booked as such.(recent fortunes, momentum, gimmick) People just couldn't get pass his past and I bet none of it would have mattered if they gave him a full reboot with a name change.

 

 

I personally don’t think his jobber past was the issue, Jinder is just really bad in the ring and had no real charisma.

 

 

Hell, he really had nothing going for him other than muscles, size and being

But you can still push as a main eventer? The new system does not take away from your ability to book them how you see them, it just gives you more accurate feedback of how they are actually seen -- so you can better see how your booking is moving them. I understand your worry about the overuse penalty, but the system before provided an artificial work around that also wasn't accurate.

 

For a modern example, WWE decided to push Jinder Mahal as a main eventer. They gave him the title and a multi-month reign. He was never accepted or perceived by the fans as a main eventer despite being pushed like this. In '16, you can artificially tell fans 'this guy is a main eventer so don't complain' but that's not how it works in reality either. Fans still have a perception. If they don't accept you or see you as a major star, you aren't one.

 

 

 

No this is not a good example. Jinders perception or popularity was completely irrelevant, he stopped being used because he has poor skills. Having poor skills means bad grades, bad grades means bad shows.

 

Guess what? That means TEW as a simulation works perfectly without arbitrary nonsense enforcing more stringent booking limitations.

[Derek B]

The problem I have with recent fortunes(it's been brought up per recent discussions) is it only goes back 5 matches. It should go back farther than that in my opinion. Momentum doesn't accurately simulate because it can be affected by turns/in ring performance/angle performance.

 

5 matches is about a month though. People have short term memories these days. Maybe in the 90s this should be more but for today it seems right on

 

It's really not just 5 matches, otherwise so many of my BHOTWG roster would never get anywhere near having positive momentum. It sounds like you are mismanaging it somewhere.... having 5 wins MIGHT get you from neutral to close to a Major Positive, but there are still layers within that the range of Major Positive is a exactly that.... a rannge. Somewhere in the background there is a number for Recent Fortunes, which starts at about 50 and goes up or down based on match and angle success. It isn't linear, as you would increase it more for winning decisively in a dominant match than a worker would for winning a match in which they are buried.... the number also doesn't degrade back to 50 (or rise if it's lower than that) for a while so you could have literally a hundred matches of being the unpinned person in throwaway tag matches and their number would stay there.

 

So yeah, it's oversimplifying to say that Recent Fortunes only takes into account 5 matches because it really doesn't. You might be able to get from neutral to what looks like near the top or bottom of the scale, but even that is only if you are trying to min/max from the middle. FRom top to bottom would take at least 12 matches..... and is why our good friend Jinder Mahal was a terrible champion. Because he didn't start from neutral, he was starting from a heaby negative, which also hinders overness gains, so by time he was on positive momentum he had only gained a little overness and by time he lost the title he hadn't gained anywhere near the popularity he could've if he'd been built up a little bit first.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Jinder was a bigger draw than Seth Rollins.

 

The funny thing about this whenever it comes to TEW is people always like to conflate real life scenarios which are much more complex and nuance toa booking simulation and put whatever spin they want to push their narrative.

 

Jinder wasn’t even a commercial flop, he was a critical flop. No one wanted to see him wrestle because he was still boring and sloppy. He also didn’t really resonate with Indian audiences the way they had hoped, like Khali did, probably due to the way he was presented.

[Matt_Black]

There's also the fact that the cable companies in India already bundle in the PPVs, if I recall correctly, so putting the strap on Jinder to boost buyrates and network subscriptions wasn't going to work.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Also the biggest problem is that Jinder was actually a very good heel champion but because the company has no real babyfaces to take advantage of it he was wasted.

 

Brock is basically a heel and has been no better than a Tweener, same with the Fiend, the issue is the company has failed to get over babyfaces due to a dirge in charisma of top stars recently(except the current champion who they already ruined his first gimmick).

 

 

Basically guys like Jinder and Corbin are there to make the babyfaces look good, the issue is they only had Styles and Styles wasn't going to be elevated from a feud with Jinder, he was already an established guy who had essentially plateaued.

 

The idea that "Jinder was a bad champion" and especially for all these silly TEW mechanic related things isn't backed by anything solid other than he was boring.

 

One hes a boring wrestler period, two he was this way at least partially by design, because he was an actual heel and not one of these tweeners who spend half the time trying to pop the crowd.

[E3000]

Sandbox Play

 

Is there or will there be a list of features we can turn on and off? Thanks!

[Adam Ryland]

Is there or will there be a list of features we can turn on and off? Thanks!

 

I have no plans for that, no - anything that was optional in TEW2016 is still optional in TEW2020, and any of the new features that have been announced would have specified in their description if they can be switched off.

[nerodragomir1]

Also the biggest problem is that Jinder was actually a very good heel champion but because the company has no real babyfaces to take advantage of it he was wasted.

 

 

The idea that "Jinder was a bad champion" and especially for all these silly TEW mechanic related things isn't backed by anything solid other than he was boring.

 

Jinder was an excellent! I loved him being WWE champion. Jinder was an excellent heel & did a fantastic job. I'd say him being champion was one of the top things WWE has done in the last 10 years.

[Vinsmoker]

Jinder was an excellent! I loved him being WWE champion. Jinder was an excellent heel & did a fantastic job. I'd say him being champion was one of the top things WWE has done in the last 10 years.

 

Yet the majority of fans would disagree with that. The perception of one fan is hardly representing the perception majority of people.

[Matt_Black]

Yeah. If he was that great, he wouldn't have been dropped down the card as far and as fast as he was.

[Historian]

Jinder was a bigger draw than Seth Rollins.

 

The funny thing about this whenever it comes to TEW is people always like to conflate real life scenarios which are much more complex and nuance toa booking simulation and put whatever spin they want to push their narrative.

 

Jinder wasn’t even a commercial flop, he was a critical flop. No one wanted to see him wrestle because he was still boring and sloppy. He also didn’t really resonate with Indian audiences the way they had hoped, like Khali did, probably due to the way he was presented.

 

Except I'm not trying to twist anything -- I pointed out an example that the majority of fans did not see Jinder Mahal as a viable company main eventer/major star. That's not really a debatable point. He did not draw well domestically and was not a great draw internationally. You said the point that I was making when you said 'no one wanted to see him wrestle...' ergo, he was not a major star, because the fans themselves did not want to see him. He did not resonate with them despite the attempted push. The example of Jinder not being used is all about perception. Plenty of people have been received consistent pushes above what their in-ring skills would lead you to believe they should be pushed at.

 

The point is, perception matters. This is a booking simulation after all and I don't want to get into a war of words. You can disagree with me about Jinder or perception or whatever and ultimately that is fine. We can all have our opinions and everyone can play the game the way they see fit. Isn't that what a booking simulation is about? The new perception feature at least is designed to give you specific feedback of how your roster is being received by your fan base and allow you to alter if you so choose your booking plans. It is letting you know specifically how their popularity and momentum are being combined to effect how your specific fan base sees them. That, to me, is a major plus.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Except I'm not trying to twist anything -- I pointed out an example that the majority of fans did not see Jinder Mahal as a viable company main eventer/major star. That's not really a debatable point. He did not draw well domestically and was not a great draw internationally. You said the point that I was making when you said 'no one wanted to see him wrestle...' ergo, he was not a major star, because the fans themselves did not want to see him. He did not resonate with them despite the attempted push. The example of Jinder not being used is all about perception. Plenty of people have been received consistent pushes above what their in-ring skills would lead you to believe they should be pushed at.

 

The point is, perception matters. This is a booking simulation after all and I don't want to get into a war of words. You can disagree with me about Jinder or perception or whatever and ultimately that is fine. We can all have our opinions and everyone can play the game the way they see fit. Isn't that what a booking simulation is about? The new perception feature at least is designed to give you specific feedback of how your roster is being received by your fan base and allow you to alter if you so choose your booking plans. It is letting you know specifically how their popularity and momentum are being combined to effect how your specific fan base sees them. That, to me, is a major plus.

 

 

Except he empirically drew more money than Seth rollins, on a weaker brand.

 

So which is it?

 

Is Seth Rollins a midcarder as well?

 

And if we aren’t going with, Seth Rollins is a midcarder in terms of perception, then why did Jinde, despite not being perceived as a major star, fail to hurt WWEs bottom line?

 

As stated before, there is nothing to suggest that Jinder was a commercial flop, only that he didn’t really boatload the Indian market like he was supposed to, and thus the WWE had no further use for him as a guy like that with a gimmick like that would never move merch.

 

 

And if we are coming to the conclusion that Jinder was overpushed yet failed to damage the compnaies bottom line, why are we still defending TEWs completely drummed up and forced overuse penalties which for all intents and purposes directly impact the company bottom line as the game is essentially about show grades?

 

 

 

Humorously, the two real life examples people used to try to discredit me only proved my point.

 

Both the Brock Lesnar push and now the Jinder Mahal push can not be accurately reflected in TEW any longer even though it works just fine in all previous versions.

[Derek B]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Except he empirically drew more money than Seth rollins, on a weaker brand.<p> </p><p> So which is it?</p><p> </p><p> Is Seth Rollins a midcarder as well?</p><p> </p><p> And if we aren’t going with, Seth Rollins is a midcarder in terms of perception, then why did Jinde, despite not being perceived as a major star, fail to hurt WWEs bottom line?</p><p> </p><p> As stated before, there is nothing to suggest that Jinder was a commercial flop, only that he didn’t really boatload the Indian market like he was supposed to, and thus the WWE had no further use for him as a guy like that with a gimmick like that would never move merch. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> And if we are coming to the conclusion that Jinder was overpushed yet failed to damage the compnaies bottom line, why are we still defending TEWs completely drummed up and forced overuse penalties which for all intents and purposes directly impact the company bottom line as the game is essentially about show grades?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Humorously, the two real life examples people used to try to discredit me only proved my point.</p><p> </p><p> Both the Brock Lesnar push and now the Jinder Mahal push can not be accurately reflected in TEW any longer even though it works just fine in all previous versions.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm just going to draw a line right here.... you're wrong, you've been shown to be wrong and you refuse to listen to what anyone else is saying despite clearly explaining mechanics and why you're wrong.</p><p> </p><p> So at this point, the discussion is over and if it is continued I will consider it to be deliberate baiting, trolling or deliberately attempting to spread misinformtion about the games since it's been explained how the game mechanics of both TEW16 and TEW20 take into account the very sitations you say they can't.</p><p> </p><p> Feel free to complain to me about this via PM, but be aware that continuing this discussion will lead to warning and the potential removal of posting privileges. If this seems harsh, it's because it's happened many times before and I don't want to see this behavious continuing in future.</p>