The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bestia Negra" data-cite="Bestia Negra" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Aside of the 8-man-tag - which was a fn great match - I thought it was a pretty boring show.<p> </p><p> The most glaring issue about AEW is ... they either have no long-term booking plans or their booking simply sucks. Just look at Archer and Lee: both were hyped up pretty hard and where are they now, just some weeks later? Lee is stuck in a horrible stable that'll go nowhere and Archer has to work jobbers like Janela for 10 minutes. Insanity. I wouldn't be too surprised if Brian Cage's future looks similar.</p><p> </p><p> btw: what happened to Matt Hardy? Arriving at AEW as the "secret weapon" of the Elite vs the IC and now he is ... managing Private Party? Ugh, okay.</p><p> </p><p> Why does nobody know how to do long-term booking anymore? tbh it feels a bit like WCW 2.0: they bring in new guys, hype them up, then have 0 clue how to use them. It's sad.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agree 100% with this!</p>

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The big men are all midcarders. They got initial monster pushes to make them look legit, title shots and now back to midcard (assuming Cage doesn't beat Mox). With only a 2 hour show (plus a youtube squash show) they can't push everyone at once.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's similar to my thinking. AEW have their top guys that they want to turn into nationally recognised icons. Moxley, Cody, etc. To do that they need to win and win and win and win, against new and exciting opponents. It's like Hogan. You need to bring in a new monster every few months, build them up, then have the icon knock them down. It's just a shame they need to find jobs for the monsters after the fact. It's a shame Lance Archer left New Japan to join AEW, when he could have returned after his run. It's a shame AEW is positioned as a sanctuary. It's a shame Bryan Cage can't go back to TNA. </p><p> </p><p> Brodie Lee is weirdly in the best position, because at least the Dark Order gives him something to do, goofy as it is. </p><p> </p><p> There's constantly a desire from wrestling die-hards to see the new thing get pushed. The 'young guys'. But AEW are still building their brand. Tony Khan is looking for that White Hot momentum to break guys through to the big time.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> <p> There's constantly a desire from wrestling die-hards to see the new thing get pushed. The 'young guys'. But AEW are still building their brand. Tony Khan is looking for that White Hot momentum to break guys through to the big time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And this is the thing that strikes me most unreasonable in Internet criticism of AEW. The gulf between between AEW's base fan and the average fan is gaping. Perhaps bigger than in any other company in American wrestling.. </p><p> </p><p> Most of the base fans have been on the ride with AEW before it even officially had a name. They were on YouTube for the pool party that announced them becoming a full promotion. They've seen all the All shows and the Fests For The Fallen and so forth and so on. They followed the company's progress to get TV and anxiously awaited Dynamite's debut. The average bear has done little to none of that. AEW has only been on the average bear's radar since last October when Dynamite premiered on TV. Not even a year yet.</p><p> </p><p> Regardless, AEW is a young company. Even if you did follow the buildup to its formation. The base fan doesn't seem to appreciate that because they were there from the moment Cody started flirting with promoting shows. So there's a lot of push this guy, push that guy, push the other guy before they've even fully established the guys they consider the foundation of their company. AEW may have achieved an amazing amount in short time but they still have to learn to walk before they can run. As great a promotion as they are and as consistently entertaining as their product is, they are hardly an established presence yet. If they get too far out over their skis and book too much like they are an established presence, they may never last long enough to be one. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised how much impatience I hear in this thread. One would think fans as comfortable with the process of promoting as TEW players are would be more cognizant of the bigger picture.</p>

[Makhai]

And this is the thing that strikes me most unreasonable in Internet criticism of AEW. The gulf between AEW's base fan and the average fan is gaping. Perhaps bigger than in any other company in American wrestling...

 

Most of the base fans have been on the ride with AEW before it even officially had a name. They were on YouTube for the pool party that announced them becoming a full promotion. They've seen all the All shows and the Fests For The Fallen and so forth and so on. They followed the company's progress to get TV and anxiously awaited Dynamite's debut. The average bear has done little to none of that. AEW has only been on the average bear's radar since last October when Dynamite premiered on TV. Not even a year yet.

 

Regardless, AEW is a young company. Even if you did follow the buildup to its formation. The base fan doesn't seem to appreciate that because they were there from the moment Cody started flirting with promoting shows. So there's a lot of push this guy, push that guy, push the other guy before they've even fully established the guys they consider the foundation of their company. AEW may have achieved an amazing amount in a short time but they still have to learn to walk before they can run. As great a promotion as they are and as consistently entertaining as their product is, they are hardly an established presence yet. If they get too far out over their skis and book too much like they are an established presence, they may never last long enough to be one. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised how much impatience I hear in this thread. One would think fans as comfortable with the process of promoting as TEW players are would be more cognizant of the bigger picture.

 

This is what's insane to me? What bigger picture? What am I supposed to be seeing here? Nothing about this company so far has told me that it's gaining traction, if anything the demos are shrinking, and the ratings going down. Looking at Brian Cage getting hot-shot to the main event just showcases exactly the problem. No stars. They buried everybody but Jericho, and wonder why they don't have credible challengers. Moxley's run so far has been veritable who's that of professional wrestling so far. And I still don't quite understand why they put the belt on him in the first place. They have a roster full of guys they can't get on TV and they're hotshotting Brian Cage and Lance Archer into main event slots. Tramp Stamp and Roidy Magoo? Just why? Seriously?

 

The only answer I can come up with is, they don't have a clue. Not one friggen hint of an idea. They've gotten sucked into booking week-to-week to compete with NXT they're rudderless. Moxley's run has been dull and boring. They won't pull the trigger on MJF for reasons not decipherable by modern humans. They're making all the same mistakes everybody does. Trying to find "big guys" like Luchasauras, Wardlow, and Cage guys who represent the kind of wrestling their core PWG/RoH/NJPW fanbase despise. Big, Slow, Garbage, It's just been one blunder after the other with only a few bright moments of what I'm now assuming is pure accident. Cody-Dustin won't happen again. They don't have a clue how to build stuff like that up.

 

And as to the "this is a young company" gag. No. It's not. It's a company built around Chris Jericho who turns 50 in a few months. They need to leverage their star... singular and make new ones off of him. NOW! Because if they let Chris age out, or breakdown, it will be much harder. They are in a very shakey spot right now. They need to run, because the wolves are chasing them. They don't have the luxury of time.

[Dalton]

I'm convinced you're trolling

[Self]

And I still don't quite understand why they put the belt on him in the first place. They have a roster full of guys they can't get on TV and they're hotshotting Brian Cage and Lance Archer into main event slots. Tramp Stamp and Roidy Magoo? Just why? Seriously?

 

I would much rather see guys show up, immediately kick everyone's ass, and shoot right into main events, than I would seeing guys slooooooooowly work their way up the card, winning some and losing some until they 'earn' a pity title shot. Like Best Friends or Private Party or (at this rate) FTR in the tag division. I like the revolving door of monsters. Build 'em. Beat 'em. Keep them around if they have something to offer. Anyone who was there in the beginning and hasn't found a good role? Send them home. Not like you have house show cards to fill.

 

I guess the problem is there's no heat. Kids wanted Hogan to defeat the bad guy because he was a bad guy. Bumping Marko Stunt doesn't make anyone a bad guy. I'm not sure anything does with this fan base.

 

I'm not defending AEW's overall booking. I stopped watching several weeks ago.

[Peppermint Rage]

This didn't make any sense to me. Archer looks like a killer and should be booked as such. Janela doesn't impress me at all; he's one of only a few wrestlers they have on the roster that I have absolutely no interest in and do not want to see on Dynamite. He's not big, he's not terribly talented in the ring, he's not much of a high flyer. When that match started, I was thinking Archer would squash him in about 5 minutes. The match was too long and they gave Janela way too much offence in my opinion.

 

It's because Janela is very entertaining, Thankfully Big is not a requirement to being a great wrestler.

[Captain Kayfabe]

It's because Janela is very entertaining, Thankfully Big is not a requirement to being a great wrestler.

 

He's not my cup of tea; don't find him interesting at all.

[Makhai]

I would much rather see guys show up, immediately kick everyone's ass, and shoot right into main events, than I would seeing guys slooooooooowly work their way up the card, winning some and losing some until they 'earn' a pity title shot. Like Best Friends or Private Party or (at this rate) FTR in the tag division. I like the revolving door of monsters. Build 'em. Beat 'em. Keep them around if they have something to offer. Anyone who was there in the beginning and hasn't found a good role? Send them home. Not like you have house show cards to fill.

 

How about have them shoot into the midcard, and beat people like Sabian, and Joey J half to death for a few months? So you can build a character and get some promos under your belt? I have no problem with stars coming in and facing guys, and I have no problem with having goals and building to them. But look at where that Archer v Cody feud went? All the weird crap with dry-humping Brandi, and the truck thing. What was all that even for? To fill TV cuz they had nothing. Cage is literally the exact same deal. Was anybody clammering for Moxley vs. Cage? I sure wasn't. I'd be much happier with 30 guys in that company over Cage cold.

 

I guess the problem is there's no heat. Kids wanted Hogan to defeat the bad guy because he was a bad guy. Bumping Marko Stunt doesn't make anyone a bad guy. I'm not sure anything does with this fan base.

 

Hot off the heels of getting beat by a 115lb girl in a company most people think closed a long time ago = straight into the main event on TNT. I think some rehab and character development would have helped him greatly.

 

I'm not defending AEW's overall booking. I stopped watching several weeks ago.

 

They've lost the plot, and I can get it. COVID-19 in Florida just broke the record for cases in a day. It's gotta be hell over there and they should have wrapped a long time ago but they don't have the content to do reruns. So they death march on.

[milamber]

Road to Fight For the Fallen with some hype video packages -

[Mootinie]

- That Spanish Fly from Private Party was rough... they're still a work in progress but I enjoyed the match.

- Janela vs. Archer was loads of fun and a perfect indication of what Archer brings to AEW insofar as Janela and Sonny Kiss benefited from working with him. I think he's been great in a low key way since he signed, everything he's done has been a thumbs up in my books.

- The eight-man tag was balls to the wall wild, I just wish they'd stop talking about the tag rules. Just let it go... they're pointing out flaws in their own product with that stuff. Nobody watching really cares about the tag rules, we just want to be entertained.

- Nyla is great, everything she does is convincing. I'm all for her and Shida having another war.

- Yikes, that hematoma on Cabana... the match was okay, Stu Grayson looked pretty great but SCU feel a bit rudderless at the moment.

- Orange Cassidy did not look out of place in the main event but I think he's better served as a midcarder winning than a headliner losing. A very very fine match nonetheless.

[Dalton]

- Orange Cassidy did not look out of place in the main event but I think he's better served as a midcarder winning than a headliner losing. A very very fine match nonetheless.

 

I could see Orange getting some sort of title run when fans return. I don't see it being the world title, but a TNT reign would be good. He gets some of the loudest reactions in the company and is insanely talented too

[milamber]

<p>- Cody © vs Kiss was great. The storytelling with Cody being rattled was top notch. Loved Sonny's entrance and the extra stiffness of his offense.</p><p>

- Lucha Bros vs FTR was great but a few spots weren't as smooth as they could have been. Not the mask! Kenny's apology didn't go down well. Meanwhile FTR and Page are drinking buddies...</p><p>

- Le Champion of the Demo! Freshly squeezed revenge. Ortiz splashing around in the juice and Jericho using the OC towel LOL.</p><p>

- Jurassic Express vs Young Bucks was my surprise MOTN. The slow burn to Kenny turning heel begins.</p><p>

- I hope Thunder Rosa challenges Shida. Classic Mox promo.</p><p>

- Nightmare Sisters vs Page & Jenkins was solid. Love Allie's new ring gear. Haven't seen Jenkins since the MYC.</p><p>

- Vicki wasn't my first choice but she has the experience and reputation to throw straight on TV. I hope Ivelisse has put her attitude problems and injury proneness behind her. Her and Diamante would make a decent tag team.</p><p>

- Cage vs Mox © was great. Taz throwing in the towel to save Cage's bicep from being torn was the perfect finish. Darby with the skateboard attack.</p><p> </p><p>

Fantastic show.</p>

[Jaysin]

I thought Sonny was sloppy as hell and his movements looked super awkward. I like Sonny, but he needs a ton of work.

 

Darby's return was cool though. Although I hope Cage murders him.

[Bestia Negra]

I thought the main event was okay but the rest of the show was one big train wreck.

[ZMAN]

<p>What stuck out to me the most was the Orange dumping orange doodoo on the Inner Circle. I know the company is run by 30 year old marks who grew up in the Attitude Era, but do we really need to re create Vince McMahon/Russo comedy skits? Is he going to spray paint Jericho's car next? It just felt out of character from what the company is supposed to be presented as.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

And no I don't hate Orange, I think he could benefit from this program and then move back down to being one of their hot midcard acts for a year or two. Cody can't challenge for the World, so that's an easy way to put a good midcard act up against a main eventer. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

But surely they can come up with better comedy shit for him to do?</p>

[Self]

Post modern wrestling referencing itself. Like when Big Swole hijacked Britt Baker's vehicle a few weeks ago and they had to do a "where to, stephanie?" bit. To get an "I remember that" pop.

[ZMAN]

That happened? I'm not even interested in looking that up on the YouTube's lol...

 

 

They need fresh material, not recycled shiz,

[milamber]

Well AEW crushed NXT in the ratings (viewers and demos) and even beat Guy Fieri.

 

The best heels speak the truth... they're just obnoxious about it.

[Wrestling Century]

I like everything going on right now except for Orange Cassidy being treated as a Main Eventer. I know he sells alot of merch, but I can't take him seriously. Imo he should be used to enhance The Best Friends.

[cappyboy]

- Cody © vs Kiss was great. The storytelling with Cody being rattled was top notch. Loved Sonny's entrance and the extra stiffness of his offense.

 

Very fun match. Sure wasn't expecting Sonny Kiss to get the shot here until he came out but glad for him. He brings a unique presence to the ring and has been killing it in the tag team with Janela. So good to see him get rewarded for showing well. I do take issue with the announcers though. No reference to the fact Cody had the perfect resource in Dustin to draw on as far as dealing with Sonny is concerned. Surely all that Goldust perspective would have been a big help in game planning for somebody as flamboyant as Kiss.

 

- Lucha Bros vs FTR was great but a few spots weren't as smooth as they could have been. Not the mask! Kenny's apology didn't go down well. Meanwhile FTR and Page are drinking buddies...

 

Tend to agree here but not going to quibble about imperfections in a match this good. Loved the ending with taking Fenix's mask. Shows that FTR aren't necessarily honorable guys and sets up well for the eventual showdown with the Bucks. Liked the aftermath as it further demonstration that FTR aren't good people rejecting the peace offering and showed continued potential for a Page turn that he'd drink with such bad dudes.

 

- Le Champion of the Demo! Freshly squeezed revenge. Ortiz splashing around in the juice and Jericho using the OC towel LOL.

 

Le Snore. Le Zzzzzz. Jericho's promo was terrible. Man was completely putting me to sleep as he droned on. It felt way too try hard. Like some writer who'd just been introduced to Chris was trying to mimic his style based on limited exposure. Wasn't until the drenching that I perked up. Very much with you about Ortiz being the best part of this segment. But I've already peace outed on one Jericho-Cassidy match. The last thing in the AEW story world I want is a second

 

- Jurassic Express vs Young Bucks was my surprise MOTN. The slow burn to Kenny turning heel begins.

 

Very cool match. Loved Marko and Jungle Boy frustrating Kenny. Really set the stage that Jurassic Express could have legit won that match and made it feel so much more competitive than some companies would have. As for afterward, it is starting to feel like a race to who can turn heel first. Hangman still has the lead but Kenny is starting to catch up

 

- I hope Thunder Rosa challenges Shida. Classic Mox promo.

 

I'm of two minds here. In my opportunities to see Rosa, I've tended to prefer her in the tag team setting. But the women's division does feel like it could use some juice. An established name or two to breathe some extra life into things could be a good idea.

 

- Nightmare Sisters vs Page & Jenkins was solid. Love Allie's new ring gear. Haven't seen Jenkins since the MYC.

 

Been digging the Nightmare Sisters dynamic but at the same time, I've yet to understand why she's been in story sheared off from Butcher & Blade. There's been no explanation of that separation and it's annoying even if it's only a minor issue. While on the other side, if women's tag is going to be a thing beyond the Nightmare Sisters and that storyline, I'd rather see Jenkins with Rache Chanel. That would seems like a more natural pairing look and gimmick wise. While Page makes me wish I could see her in a setting more like OVW. Not that I dislike her. I don't. But as much as her extreme youth is mentioned, I'd like to see her facing the Jessie Belles, Amazing Marias and Thunder Kittys of the wrestling world. Heck, maybe give Page a run with the OVW Women's title. She's already better than Cali Young when Cali first held OVW gold.

 

- Vicki wasn't my first choice but she has the experience and reputation to throw straight on TV. I hope Ivelisse has put her attitude problems and injury proneness behind her. Her and Diamante would make a decent tag team.

 

And the Dark pipeline continues. Vicki's now the third manager whose first appearance for the company was guest commentary on Dark following Arn Anderson and Taz. Certainly dig the choice. Vicki's harshness and Nyla's bravado make a great blend together.

 

As for Ivelisse, I mostly know of her second hand. But Diamante has looked terrific in her AEW appearances. If Ivelisse can come in and show she's more than just reputation, I could be down for that pairing. Certainly ways a women's tag scene could be grown from the pool AEW's drawing from if they so chose.

 

- Cage vs Mox © was great. Taz throwing in the towel to save Cage's bicep from being torn was the perfect finish. Darby with the skateboard attack.

 

Fantastic show.

 

Meh. Second clunker of Moxley's title reign where I'm concerned. Not that I blame Mox. Had seen little of Cage pre-AEW and just haven't been impressed with him to date.. Was hoping this match would help me see what all the fuss is about and it didn't. I look at Cage and see a million dollar body and ten cent everything else. Looking forward to Moxley getting a new challenger and Cage having to deal with Darby. They do have a good foundation set for that feud and maybe along the way Cage can have more matches with a level of competition that can stretch him. I really want to see why "the path of Cage" is something to be concerned about. Right now, I'm much more inclined to look at Lance Archer as a threat than Cage. Archer looks like his blood is boiling every time he comes to the ring and he's out for blood. Cage just appears to be going through motions.

 

Will concede the storyline logic of the ending was cool and that I loved Darby's return. But I could so easily have shut the show off mid-match and missed those good points because of what was otherwise a snoozefest. Overall a solid show. But I do hope they get back to better main events. Moxley/Cage is one to throw on the fire next to the empty arena Hager mess.

[milamber]

An all-time great BTE. So many funny skits and the aftermath of Kenny beating up Marko.

 

[milamber]

One the best COVID-era episodes of Dark. We got some storyline movement and more star power than usual with Shida, Scorpio, Starks and Darby. Most of the enhancement talent stepped up. Nice to see Tino wrestling again considering he was basically retired in NXT. Aaron Solow looked impressive. King vs Diamante was better than expected. Robert Anthony has done more than enough to earn a contract. Cutler & Avalon were entertaining as always.

[Dalton]

That was a good episode of Dynamite IMO.

 

I freaking love Eddie Kingston so seeing him as the open challenger was awesome. I do wish he was the face though, he can get real sympathetic reactions just for being "real" in his promos. His NWA stuff from this/last year prove that.

 

I like the tie-in with the Dark Order into the FTR/Page&Omega feud. It allows the storyline to progress without overdoing things early. One of the best parts of AEW is their ability to intertwine storylines and have mini-feuds among the larger ones. Think Jericho/Scorpio Sky, Bucks/Butcher and the Blade, Darby/Cody during the MJF feud, countless others. I love it! Plus the Dark Order stuff ties into the BTE skits where Brodie is livid they could've gotten Hangman earlier in the year.

 

The Serpentico swerve actually got me lol. The whole time I was thinking "the Inner Circle is getting a new member? And it's a no-name like Serpentico? Man, either Jericho really sees something in him or something major is up with Sammy..." and then seconds later he unmasked and I felt dumb

[milamber]

- Cody © vs Kingston (No DQ) was great. The striking was brutal and so were the thumb-tacks. Kingston is one hell of a promo and his selling of the knee injury looked legit. I hope this wasn't a one-off.

- Good Mox promo as expected.

- MJF vs "Jungle Man" Griff was solid with strong character work from MJF.

- Dr. Britt returning to action soon.

- Taz great on the mic as usual. Love the artwork on Darby's skateboard. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the ring against Starks. Mox with the barbed wire bat!

- Looks like AEW are serious about rebuilding the women's division.

- Young Bucks vs Butcher & Blade (Falls Count Anywhere) was great and could have main evented. Blade was lucky after missing the table.

- Archer smash!

- Diamante vs Ivelisse was good. I think they will continue feuding until they decide to team up. Bonus Swole promo although the timing was distracting.

- 5 vs Page was good. Not the C word! FTR to the rescue. Too late Kenny. More hints that they will break up sooner rather than later.

- Jurassic Express vs Inner Circle was great. The Sammy/Serpentico fakeout fooled me LOL.

 

Really enjoyed the promos and 3 of the matches were PPV quality. So much for returning to normal shows with filler like many predicted. 6 more Dynamites before All Out and AEW already have their foot on the gas.

 

 

Kingston post-match promo: