Struggling with match ratings

[JamesHarden13]

Hello I am currently in a game with WWE mid 2020's and I have been struggling with match ratings since the start despite trying multiple bookings

 

In like 13-14 months in game , I only have 5 85+ rating match and a lot of time in the Notes I see both wrestlers cracking over 90+ in performance but still the match ending being a 75-80 rating

 

18-24 mins w/story telling , open match , decisive win , same with spectacle or Epic but I am struggling

 

For example in my RAW main event I had Bryan vs Gargano both having 95 ish in performance but 74 overall

 

You can argue Gargano is not my top guy but he's been pushed to nearly a Main Eventer but this scenario happened to me multiple times even with 2 main eventers

 

Product : 20% intensity 40% danger - sports entertainement (well it's the typical product for WWE i havent changed anything yet)

 

Do I do something wrong or is it just hard ? Do I need better build up ? Is my work with the crowd not good ? Or is just because of the product ?

 

Thanks

[Matt_Black]

Do you have the Dirt Sheets option turned on? That will give you more details on exactly what is bringing down the match ratings.

[Morti]

I have heard that story telling caps the match rating, so that may be it?

[JamesHarden13]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do you have the Dirt Sheets option turned on? That will give you more details on exactly what is bringing down the match ratings.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't had it on , maybe that can help. I will try moving forward. Thanks</p><p> </p><p> Just booked WM 36 </p><p> </p><p> Best rating I got was Andrade vs John Morrison 87 and then Daivari vs Cedric Alexander 83 , none are main eventers and they did beat in ratings matches like : Cena v Orton v Nakamura or The Rock v Samoa Joe or Kevin Owens vs Robert Roode ... For example</p><p> </p><p> Andrade v Morrison was a regular 17 min Ladder match and Cedric vs Daivari was a 12 min high spots singles match</p>

[JamesHarden13]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MortiSporti" data-cite="MortiSporti" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have heard that story telling caps the match rating, so that may be it?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good to know if true thanks</p>

[Levinux]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JamesHarden13" data-cite="JamesHarden13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I didn't had it on , maybe that can help. I will try moving forward. Thanks<p> </p><p> Just booked WM 36 </p><p> </p><p> Best rating I got was Andrade vs John Morrison 87 and then Daivari vs Cedric Alexander 83 , none are main eventers and they did beat in ratings matches like : Cena v Orton v Nakamura or The Rock v Samoa Joe or Kevin Owens vs Robert Roode ... For example</p><p> </p><p> Andrade v Morrison was a regular 17 min Ladder match and Cedric vs Daivari was a 12 min high spots singles match</p></div></blockquote><p> I've found that matches under 20m will be capped. Try pushing some of those hot names in 21-22 minute matches, see if that gets you an increase. Also, not having a hot storyline involved with a match will incur a penalty.</p>

[franticloser]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JamesHarden13" data-cite="JamesHarden13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> 18-24 mins w/story telling , open match , decisive win , same with spectacle or Epic but I am struggling</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Try less is more with booking notes. I usually go with Open Match and either call in the ring or script depending on the psychology of the people in the match (iirc the psychology ding comes if the highest psychology skill is less then the base rating of the match before any other bonus or ding) Part of this is on the mod maker maybe having psychology set low for workers and you aren't selecting an option, or you are selecting call in the ring. Also even with scripted matches there is an upper limit of how much it will protect the match I think. but turning on the dirt sheet notes will help. Also remember for TV shows your workers won't go all in for matches and will get slight dings for holding back. They may have motivation dings (which you only can pick up on those random so and so doesn't like to work higher in the card, or against opponents smaller/bigger then them.) With WWE story lines do impact match ratings and if the story line isn't hot it can impact the match negatively, or vice versa. But only if those workers are in a story line together.</p><p> </p><p> EDIT: and yes matches do have an expected length depending on the placement on the card of the workers involved. No one wants to see an hour long Heath Slater vs Primo Colon match. But Bryan vs Kingston, needs at least 20 minutes to help build the match into an all out epic people expect.</p>

[Makhai]

<p>People really overuse the open match note. In a match between two main eventers, it's a pointless note. It's for, for example, my Davis Wayne Newton vs. Thrill Seeker match from my diary. Which is a Lower Midcarder vs. a Main Eventer. to force the Main Eventer to give 50-50 offense to a lesser guy to help get him over by making him look like a credible threat. A real world example would be the Bret Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid match from that 94 episode of RAW. </p><p> </p><p>

You don't use it on every match, and if you are, then something is busted with that note.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<p>So there are potentially a few factors that could impact it. </p><p> </p><p>

One is the mod itself. Which is not to say the skills and popularity of the workers are "wrong" or problematic. But the WWE invariably has a large roster in any mod (current or historical) and that creates a bit of a problem with the way the push function works. Since the push of a worker will depend heavily on the total roster size, so you have workers who don't truly have main event levels of popularity pushing to that. Since the product is rated on popularity, using them AS main eventers tends to mean lower grades. This is fundamentally why the AI will often struggle to do well with the WWE. If, as the booker, you aren't looking at the actual popularity level but simply the , that can backfire on you. </p><p> </p><p>

To get a feel for any mod before I dive into a save, I tend to run a test save for a couple of months. Fire up a save, start as unemployed, and fast advance for a little while. This allows you to see how the AI does booking the company, which provides a nice baseline for expectations. I know I can generally do 1 to 2 grades better than the AI does. </p><p> </p><p>

Another big factor, which others have touched on, is the Road Agent notes you are using. Many are meant for specific situations and may negative impact others, which is why looking at the Dirt Sheet is so vital. Story Telling is necessary if you are an SE company, but for at least one match per show, not necessarily every match. If you are still learning the impact of the agent notes and when to use them, go minimal. Pick a winner, maybe Open Match if the talent are on similar level, and that's it.</p>

[James Casey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> 18-24 mins w/story telling , open match , decisive win , same with spectacle or Epic but I am struggling</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Okay, let's look at these.</p><p> </p><p> 18-24 minutes is overkill outside of one or two matches per show in WWE - your main event, and maybe one other on TV, on PPV you might vary things a little. </p><p> </p><p> Keep your matches around 10 minutes or even less, but be aware that something like Wild Brawl between two talented + over brawlers can boost that. Usually for a 10 minute match you're looking at a B/77 rating, tops, but a hot brawl between two over brawlers can beat that.</p><p> </p><p> Story telling, as others have said, isn't necessary for most matches. All matches tell a story - this note is for when you want that story to be the main focus of the match. Think of 'injured worker fighting from underneath', 'speed versus size' or 'rookie surprises veteran'.</p><p> </p><p> Open match limits the harm to the loser and gain to the winner, because it's an even contest, nip and tuck. Dominant winners gain popularity, undercard guys beating uppercard guys gain popularity. Main eventers gain popularity by beating undercard guys when they have the lion's share of offence - which they will, if not booked in an open match. It's okay to have Daniel Bryan eat up your lower midcard guys; That's their job, and if your main event guys <em>aren't</em> looking good in victory, the fans won't buy into them. Your roster popularity isn't finite, but someone has to be on top and someone has to be at the bottom, and by and large your matches should reflect that.</p><p> </p><p> There's nothing <em>wrong</em> with open matches between your over and less over guys occasionally, especially if you want to bring a less over guy up the card by having them show spirit against the main eventer. Doing it in most matches dilutes the impact, though.</p><p> </p><p> Decisive win is fine for most matches, but on TV and even on some PPVs cheap finishes, flash pins etc. can help protect the overness of the loser - at the expense of limiting the winner's popualrity gain. Still, to prolong a feud, they're invaluable.</p><p> </p><p> Spectacle and Epic only work in very specific circumstances and - last I saw - no-one had a clear idea on how that worked, exactly. You can get 99/100 rated matches without any booking notes beyond 20+ minutes, slow build and (if your workers have high Pyschology) call in ring, which I find helps.</p><p> </p><p> One last thing: This game is heavily weighted in favour of a hot main event in terms of determining the match ratings. Build up your top guys with hot angles (this is WWE - talking smack about each other is fine, but if you want to imply that your top heel has killed your top babyface in a dump truck, go ahead!) and your match ratings will go up. One or two hot workers can carry their opponents to better matches, which will raise their overness, which will result in better matches with other opponents, which... You get the idea.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>People really overuse the open match note. In a match between two main eventers, it's a pointless note. It's for, for example, my Davis Wayne Newton vs. Thrill Seeker match from my diary. Which is a Lower Midcarder vs. a Main Eventer. to force the Main Eventer to give 50-50 offense to a lesser guy to help get him over by making him look like a credible threat. A real world example would be the Bret Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid match from that 94 episode of RAW. <p> </p><p> You don't use it on every match, and if you are, then something is busted with that note.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agree and disagree.</p><p> </p><p> It does get overused. I probably overuse it. But while it doesn't necessarily add a lot to the grade of two workers who are close in popularity, that doesn't mean it can't apply. Even between workers on a similar level, matches are not necessarily going to get equal amounts of offense. Some workers are going to have more offense (Lesnar types, for obvious example) while others will have less (underdog dynamic, big comeback guys like Cena). That note is basically saying to even it out.</p>

[Makhai]

Agree and disagree.

 

It does get overused. I probably overuse it. But while it doesn't necessarily add a lot to the grade of two workers who are close in popularity, that doesn't mean it can't apply. Even between workers on a similar level, matches are not necessarily going to get equal amounts of offense. Some workers are going to have more offense (Lesnar types, for obvious example) while others will have less (underdog dynamic, big comeback guys like Cena). That note is basically saying to even it out.

 

My point here is, every match has a natural flow and order and that doesn't always equal 50-50 in the strictest terms of offense. For example, I can beat the holy hell out of you for 40 minutes straight, and then you can hit your comeback, press R1 a few times and win, and nobody will remember any of that 40 minutes I worked you over because you looked good, and you won. This is how wrestling works. The offense should have a purpose. Either it's building something, or it's doing something. 50-50 matches should hurt the flow of matches similar to Scripting, but it doesn't so people slap it on willy-nilly without thinking what their wrestling shows would look like in reality.

 

An open match that sees Rey Mysterio have an equal offense to Brock Lesnar, should probably hurt Brock Lesnar, especially if Rey is still a "vanilla midget" with no overness. And yet in TEW people can just slap it on every match and it not hurt a thing and help job Rey up the card. I think that's a bit busted. I also think job guys don't have near enough benefit to a wrestling company. But that's a different issue for another topic.

[BigINMoldova]

An open match that sees Rey Mysterio have an equal offense to Brock Lesnar, should probably hurt Brock Lesnar, especially if Rey is still a "vanilla midget" with no overness. And yet in TEW people can just slap it on every match and it not hurt a thing and help job Rey up the card. I think that's a bit busted. I also think job guys don't have near enough benefit to a wrestling company. But that's a different issue for another topic.

 

 

 

Is it still 1992 Or did I miss something recently?

[Zero]

Try not using them. I never use them and my match ratings are typically fine. I might use them for specific matches.

[batsnumbereleven]

EDIT: and yes matches do have an expected length depending on the placement on the card of the workers involved. No one wants to see an hour long Heath Slater vs Primo Colon match. But Bryan vs Kingston, needs at least 20 minutes to help build the match into an all out epic people expect.

 

I don't think this is quite accurate for TEW16. The position of the worker on the card (or even their push) isn't relevant like it was in TEW13.

[Eidenhoek]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="batsnumbereleven" data-cite="batsnumbereleven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think this is quite accurate for TEW16. The position of the worker on the card (or even their push) isn't relevant like it was in TEW13.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> A person can be over-used, but unless it's...I think if you just have openers/enhancement talent in a match, that'll get it dinged. But the match itself doesn't get hit if you have a lower-midcarder/opener go 90 minutes. The <em>show</em> will, but...</p>

[franticloser]

It actually is relevant, check the dirt sheet notes on it. There is an upper and lower level limit for workers used base don placement on the card.

[Kingster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="franticloser" data-cite="franticloser" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46612" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It actually is relevant, check the dirt sheet notes on it. There is an upper and lower level limit for workers used base don placement on the card.</div></blockquote><p> I think it's only based on push level, not actual placement on the card. For example, an enhancement talent will be overused in a 20 minute match, regardless if it was the opening segment or the main event.</p>

[franticloser]

Ah misunderstanding of word usage! That was what I meant.