Public Beta Reaction Thread

[TeemuFoundation]

Are we certain it's actually going to launch today? Adam mentioned he would make a new post by yesterday confirming the release date or at the latest this morning. I would imagine if he still hasn't confirmed by the day before the planned release, they probablym won't be ready by today.

Yes.

[ShaunGBD]

Yesyesyesyes

[HarryFandango86]

Real great effort from Adam and his team to go at this all night.

[The Nickman]

I think that depending upon your product setting and in game rules you can emulate this quit well.

You actually can, and have always been able to in TEW.

 

For TV, all you’ve ever needed was three hot angles and a good main event. If you push your angle ratio as high as your product allows for TV, you’ll get a good rating.

 

The rest of the card can be meaningless squashes. Helps to have an ok semi-main (your second best match) too, but it’s not entirely critical.

[Jack Avatar Fan]

It's been a hell of a ride to release. For over three weeks, there has been a new version of TEW2020 every day. Everyone is entitled to and encouraged to share their constructive criticism about the game, but I think that people today should take a second to appreciate "The Streak" that Adam and the team have been on.

[Bad Collin]

I love that Adam pulled an all nighter to get this over the line.

 

Luckily I have a very busy work day ahead so i'm not going to be sitting here waiting.

[franticloser]

I want to echo the thanks and kind words to Adam to working so hard over the last three weeks, getting patches out everyday, making changes as he could, and his art team getting the new UI to him. All so we can enjoy the game without a second delay. Thank you!

[Brushfire]

Real great effort from Adam and his team to go at this all night.

 

My first thought when I read that was to think about how unhealthy that was, and how no-one should ever feel like they have to do that to meet expectations, and then I remembered that I did so multiple times for uni assignments. :')

 

Really looking forward to purchasing the game later. I'm waiting for a couple of mods to have a full release (and for Mammoth to update his skin!) before I can really get the full enjoyment out of the game, but I'm certain I'll find something else to do in the meantime.

[awesomenessofme1]

I'll finally be able to start my diary for real. (shameless plug, check out my diary here, predictions for the first show are open and I have no idea when it will be posted)

[TeemuFoundation]

You can...kinda...but not really. There's a few caveats and workarounds needed, and you undoubtedly will end up having to "fill in the blanks" yourself (that is, use your imagination to overcome the limitations of the game with regards to historical time settings in particular). The more 80s era products give more leeway to match ratings...but only so much.

 

To piggyback on that for historical mods from the pre-MNW era: 2020 has brought some really good things to the table for historical games or brought them back after their being missing from 2016 (like the revenue cost split for broadcasting deals and in-game start year impacting PPV and such), other things - at least so far as it stands now - need workarounds. Contracts still simply do not mimic old school business. They just don't. It's likely a limitation that cannot be overcome. House shows can't be directly booked, and those were the more important events than the TV shows (as the other poster stated, TV was really just advertisements for house shows). You can set up events and not televise them to mimic this (and think of what TEW brands house shows as spot shows which were less important), but then you're handicapping yourself in the game by doing that and the AI isn't going to follow suit.

 

Venues can be tied to specific events...but not TV shows. Hopefully that'll change, but until it does the only workaround is to set up a weekly event and tie that into a broadcasting deal. The problem with that is that TV show ratings and event ratings may not be dealt with the same way internally (from what I understand, I could be wrong there). Moreover, if the historical mod is set in the pre-PPV days or under strict usage, then the AI won't seek broadcasting deals for it's events. Which, again, is the only way to have a fixed venue for a "TV show" (that's not a TV show internally in the game due to the workaround)...except if the mod is set to pre-PPV or strict usage, then the AI won't seek those deals which means you might just end up looking up results for rival promotions and see that Memphis or Crockett Promotions has not been airing out of the TV studio every week at all which can break immersion.

Yea, unfortunately TEW has never really been able to simulate the pre-Monday Night War era of television or business model. Like you said, back in the day, nothing was given out for free on TV. If you wanted to see the big stars lock horns, you had to either pay for a house show ticket, buy a Pay Per View, or shill out the bucks for a VHS release that included dark matches that were taped specifically to be included on those tapes. Of course, you can book however you want, but those of us who enjoy playing this era in TEW do need a lot of self imposed challenges and restrictions to make it feel immersive. TEW itself doesn't really reward the booking style of this era, it actually actively punishes you for it. You don't gain anything from not booking Hogan and Warrior to headline Superstars, as opposed to holding off on the match until WrestleMania. If you look at TEW strictly as a game, you obviously should have your Hogans and Warriors squaring off against other top stars on Superstars every week in lengthy matches to secure the best possible ratings. When in reality guys like that would only appear on TV in pre-taped backstage promos, hyping up the upcoming PPV or house show loop. Sometimes you'd get stuff like a Jake Roberts appearing on the Funeral Parlor or the Brother Love Show and whatnot. But no Star vs. Star matches appeared on TV prior to Monday Night RAW, and even when RAW was on, it took a few years for it to really become an A show where you got to see the Star vs. Star matches. Around 94 was when it started happening pretty regularly. Of course, in early 1993 we saw the Flair vs. Perfect Loser Leaves Town match, which was very historic. Pre-RAW, the matches that happened on free TV were pretty much always squashes against jobbers. You can book non-televised events, of course, and treat them as your house shows. And you can have the WWF on the MGS Network as a monthly event and stuff like that, but it does take going against the game's logic of what you're supposed to be doing, and it does require some imagination and those self imposed challenges that I talked about. Block tapings and the new contracts do bring TEW slightly closer to being able to simulate that era, but it's still a long way to go. Maybe some day.

[natey2k4]

Yea, unfortunately TEW has never really been able to simulate the pre-Monday Night War era of television or business model. Like you said, back in the day, nothing was given out for free on TV. If you wanted to see the big stars lock horns, you had to either pay for a house show ticket, buy a Pay Per View, or shill out the bucks for a VHS release that included dark matches that were taped specifically to be included on those tapes. Of course, you can book however you want, but those of us who enjoy playing this era in TEW do need a lot of self imposed challenges and restrictions to make it feel immersive. TEW itself doesn't really reward the booking style of this era, it actually actively punishes you for it. You don't gain anything from not booking Hogan and Warrior to headline Superstars, as opposed to holding off on the match until WrestleMania. If you look at TEW strictly as a game, you obviously should have your Hogans and Warriors squaring off against other top stars on Superstars every week in lengthy matches to secure the best possible ratings. When in reality guys like that would only appear on TV in pre-taped backstage promos, hyping up the upcoming PPV or house show loop. Sometimes you'd get stuff like a Jake Roberts appearing on the Funeral Parlor or the Brother Love Show and whatnot. But no Star vs. Star matches appeared on TV prior to Monday Night RAW, and even when RAW was on, it took a few years for it to really become an A show where you got to see the Star vs. Star matches. Around 94 was when it started happening pretty regularly. Of course, in early 1993 we saw the Flair vs. Perfect Loser Leaves Town match, which was very historic. Pre-RAW, the matches that happened on free TV were pretty much always squashes against jobbers. You can book non-televised events, of course, and treat them as your house shows. And you can have the WWF on the MGS Network as a monthly event and stuff like that, but it does take going against the game's logic of what you're supposed to be doing, and it does require some imagination and those self imposed challenges that I talked about. Block tapings and the new contracts do bring TEW slightly closer to being able to simulate that era, but it's still a long way to go. Maybe some day.

Not completely true. Saturday Night Main Event had some

Star matches. Even Superstars had the occasional big name match.

 

But your overall point does stand

[LucasLutkus]

Yea, unfortunately TEW has never really been able to simulate the pre-Monday Night War era of television or business model. Like you said, back in the day, nothing was given out for free on TV. If you wanted to see the big stars lock horns, you had to either pay for a house show ticket, buy a Pay Per View, or shill out the bucks for a VHS release that included dark matches that were taped specifically to be included on those tapes. Of course, you can book however you want, but those of us who enjoy playing this era in TEW do need a lot of self imposed challenges and restrictions to make it feel immersive. TEW itself doesn't really reward the booking style of this era, it actually actively punishes you for it. You don't gain anything from not booking Hogan and Warrior to headline Superstars, as opposed to holding off on the match until WrestleMania. If you look at TEW strictly as a game, you obviously should have your Hogans and Warriors squaring off against other top stars on Superstars every week in lengthy matches to secure the best possible ratings. When in reality guys like that would only appear on TV in pre-taped backstage promos, hyping up the upcoming PPV or house show loop. Sometimes you'd get stuff like a Jake Roberts appearing on the Funeral Parlor or the Brother Love Show and whatnot. But no Star vs. Star matches appeared on TV prior to Monday Night RAW, and even when RAW was on, it took a few years for it to really become an A show where you got to see the Star vs. Star matches. Around 94 was when it started happening pretty regularly. Of course, in early 1993 we saw the Flair vs. Perfect Loser Leaves Town match, which was very historic. Pre-RAW, the matches that happened on free TV were pretty much always squashes against jobbers. You can book non-televised events, of course, and treat them as your house shows. And you can have the WWF on the MGS Network as a monthly event and stuff like that, but it does take going against the game's logic of what you're supposed to be doing, and it does require some imagination and those self imposed challenges that I talked about. Block tapings and the new contracts do bring TEW slightly closer to being able to simulate that era, but it's still a long way to go. Maybe some day.

 

Wouldn't a way out be to have the TV Shows of the Era as "Lesser" shows? The popularity gain would be smaller, but at least you wouldn't be penalised for not having Stars vs. Stars. And since the feuds can continue developing on Lesser shows, it would arrive with good heat for the PPV matches since it was built a lot on angles. That was what I used to do on the TEW16 1991 mod.

[TeemuFoundation]

Not completely true. Saturday Night Main Event had some

Star matches. Even Superstars had the occasional big name match.

 

But your overall point does stand

Yes, of course. But those weren't weekly TV shows, they were one off specials. I should have clarified. But since we're on the subject, the first The Main Event show on NBC, featuring the Andre and Hogan rematch in 1988 drew 33 million viewers. Now, TV was of course very different at the time, and people had like four channels to choose from, but it was still an immense number. And the reason for it was because a Hogan vs. Andre match on free TV was so huge, today's fans may not realize how big of a deal it really was. TEW doesn't really have a mechanic in place to simulate the specialty of a big feature match like that on free TV. And yes, there were other factors in there, as well, like the fact that Hogan's first loss in four years got leaked since the show was taped, but still. It just goes to show how different the landscape was back then.

[TeemuFoundation]

Wouldn't a way out be to have the TV Shows of the Era as "Lesser" shows? The popularity gain would be smaller, but at least you wouldn't be penalised for not having Stars vs. Stars. And since the feuds can continue developing on Lesser shows, it would arrive with good heat for the PPV matches since it was built a lot on angles. That was what I used to do on the TEW16 1991 mod.

I don't think TV Shows have the Event Intent feature included, that's just for Events. Now, you can obviously have them as B Shows, but that doesn't really work, either, because a B Show means the fans are expecting less from the show than an A Show, and back then, those A Show expectations didn't exist, so it would get skewed. And this isn't me complaining, by the way. TEW was just not designed to simulate this era.

[Blackman]

My first thought when I read that was to think about how unhealthy that was, and how no-one should ever feel like they have to do that to meet expectations, and then I remembered that I did so multiple times for uni assignments. :')

 

Really looking forward to purchasing the game later. I'm waiting for a couple of mods to have a full release (and for Mammoth to update his skin!) before I can really get the full enjoyment out of the game, but I'm certain I'll find something else to do in the meantime.

 

It's just not done in the game industry when you're forcing your workers to do it (the whole "crunch" debate). When you're doing it for uni assignment, that's to meet YOUR expectations and that's on you . Any time you hope to 'win' from the minimum of sleep (say 6 hours) will bite you in the ass later on. Guaranteed.

 

I'm also going to wait for the mods and - hopefully - for some financial tweaks that so far have been blatantly ignored. I get that most of the audience would be sandbox people and don't give a hoot about that, but the management fans right now don't get any challenge unless they manually substract money or screw things up, which always feels a bit awkward. A lot of the features (both new and old) are meaningless right now. Your default product should contain some challenge for everybody. Every promotion makes money and starts with a harmonious locker room. Previous games had some struggling promotions you could try to save, some toxic environments to reinvigorate,... Here it seems easy street. Bit of a pity. I think most players don't "get it" yet as they've only played 3 months and these are long-term concerns.

[Mattywood]

I don't think TV Shows have the Event Intent feature included, that's just for Events. Now, you can obviously have them as B Shows, but that doesn't really work, either, because a B Show means the fans are expecting less from the show than an A Show, and back then, those A Show expectations didn't exist, so it would get skewed. And this isn't me complaining, by the way. TEW was just not designed to simulate this era.

 

Not to mention the fact that if you label a TV show as a 'B' show and it's the only show taking place that night, attendance will tank. Whereas attendance for those shows (at least for the WWF) didn't start tanking until the 1990s rolled around and the wrestling industry started going on a decline overall. And even then it still took a few years for it to get to a point where Vince had to just go to smaller venues.

[TeemuFoundation]

Not to mention the fact that if you label a TV show as a 'B' show and it's the only show taking place that night, attendance will tank. Whereas attendance for those shows (at least for the WWF) didn't start tanking until the 1990s rolled around and the wrestling industry started going on a decline overall. And even then it still took a few years for it to get to a point where Vince had to just go to smaller venues.

Yea, it's because the concept of a "B Show" assumes that there is an A Show, making it so the fans in the TEW universe care less about the B Show, but this skews things the wrong way, of course, because the syndicated shows like Superstars and Challenge were the actual A shows.

[rufas2000]

Having grown up in the "Squash Match" era here are some thoughts.

 

Firstly it was pretty much only the WWF and Crockett that had parade o squash match TV shows with certain wrestlers too big to appear. They could afford to because they were the leaders. The other regional promotions had to get eyeballs by offering something to watch. The NWA promotions that preceded Crockett often had big main events on their shows (but they had weeks of squashes too). So if you play anybody other than the WWF or NWA (it wasn't too long after they became WCW that their shows began offering better matches if memory serves) you can book a show that TEW will like a little better than the WWF or NWA TV shows. Especially World Class, they were doing the Monday Night War style booking in the 80s.

 

So who was the list of wrestlers who didn't wrestle on TV? In the WWF it was Hogan. Savage and Warrior once they became world champions and Andre. That's really it (edit: forgot Flair and good guy Sid, bad guy Sid was on regular rotation). In the NWA it was Flair and Rhodes. So there are only a few people you have to avoid to accurately simulate the era.

 

If you are doing the WWF you also have Prime Time Wrestling which did have good matches (at least one upper midcard vs midcard or greater match). Its hard to say it was the main show but was certainly an A show.

 

Also the WWF would hire "jobbers" who were actually stars in other companies. We knew Tim Horner & Black Bart were there to lose with little resistance but the game doesn't know that since both were midcarders in WCW. There are others but those are the two I remember.

 

So if I want to book old school I would use one two hour show which would combine the two syndicated shows or represent World Championship Wrestling (there is no way for the game to simulate a highlight show like Prime Time and booking up to 6 hours for Crockett is something I'm not going to do, historical accuracy be damned). I would avoid using my world champion too often along with any other wrestlers at A popularity. I would try to hire 4-6 workers with decent overness who could work to be "jobbers to the stars". I would have a main event each week (this goes slightly against some time periods but there were times these shows had main events almost every week) featuring some "B" popularity talent.

 

As far as PPV you could set up one to represent the house show loop. The WWE had several contracts with local sports networks to telecast house shows. Combine those into one for the months when you don't have a PPV.

 

Find a product where angles are at least equal to matches and popularity or uncheck match - angle ratio and have angles take up half the show. When you factor in the interview segment, the update, "previously on" and the house show promos (or the Gorilla - Heenan segments on Prime Time) they might have been 50-50 angles - matches.

 

Honestly simulating 80s era WWF would be easier than simulating 80s level NWA / WCW. Many of the tweaks you can use to get TEW to like your shows better aren't historically accurate with NWA / WCW. I'm not sure the game would think highly of Ronnie Garvin beating on Jim Jeffers for 10 minutes.

 

TEW would have issues if you try to relive this era just like they did it. But you can get the jist of it and make TEW friendly tweaks and be successful. Especially with the WWF.

[TeemuFoundation]

Having grown up in the "Squash Match" era here are some thoughts.

 

Firstly it was pretty much only the WWF and Crockett that had parade o squash match TV shows with certain wrestlers too big to appear. They could afford to because they were the leaders. The other regional promotions had to get eyeballs by offering something to watch. The NWA promotions that preceded Crockett often had big main events on their shows (but they had weeks of squashes too). So if you play anybody other than the WWF or NWA (it wasn't too long after they became WCW that their shows began offering better matches if memory serves) you can book a show that TEW will like a little better than the WWF or NWA TV shows. Especially World Class, they were doing the Monday Night War style booking in the 80s.

 

So who was the list of wrestlers who didn't wrestle on TV? In the WWF it was Hogan. Savage and Warrior once they became world champions and Andre. That's really it (edit: forgot Flair and good guy Sid, bad guy Sid was on regular rotation). In the NWA it was Flair and Rhodes. So there are only a few people you have to avoid to accurately simulate the era.

 

If you are doing the WWF you also have Prime Time Wrestling which did have good matches (at least one upper midcard vs midcard or greater match). Its hard to say it was the main show but was certainly an A show.

 

Also the WWF would hire "jobbers" who were actually stars in other companies. We knew Tim Horner & Black Bart were there to lose with little resistance but the game doesn't know that since both were midcarders in WCW. There are others but those are the two I remember.

 

So if I want to book old school I would use one two hour show which would combine the two syndicated shows or represent World Championship Wrestling (there is no way for the game to simulate a highlight show like Prime Time and booking up to 6 hours for Crockett is something I'm not going to do, historical accuracy be damned). I would avoid using my world champion too often along with any other wrestlers at A popularity. I would try to hire 4-6 workers with decent overness who could work to be "jobbers to the stars". I would have a main event each week (this goes slightly against some time periods but there were times these shows had main events almost every week) featuring some "B" popularity talent.

 

As far as PPV you could set up one to represent the house show loop. The WWE had several contracts with local sports networks to telecast house shows. Combine those into one for the months when you don't have a PPV.

 

Find a product where angles are at least equal to matches and popularity or uncheck match - angle ratio and have angles take up half the show. When you factor in the interview segment, the update, "previously on" and the house show promos (or the Gorilla - Heenan segments on Prime Time) they might have been 50-50 angles - matches.

 

Honestly simulating 80s era WWF would be easier than simulating 80s level NWA / WCW. Many of the tweaks you can use to get TEW to like your shows better aren't historically accurate with NWA / WCW. I'm not sure the game would think highly of Ronnie Garvin beating on Jim Jeffers for 10 minutes.

 

TEW would have issues if you try to relive this era just like they did it. But you can get the jist of it and make TEW friendly tweaks and be successful. Especially with the WWF.

Yeah, good addition. I should have clarified, I was commenting on WWF specifically because that's what was asked above. However, Prime Time, in my opinion can't really be done in TEW because the matches, for the most part, didn't happen live, but were recorded in the house show circuit, and then shown on TV. So it was basically a highlight show, which in TEW only exists for Japanese touring promotions. You can, of course, use these in whatever company you want, but I don't think you get accurate results outside of Japan. Maybe this is something that can be added for future games since the code for highlight shows already exists, and with some minor tweaks could be added to this era of US wrestling.

[nerodragomir1]

<p>Is it bad that I didn't even realize the game should be coming out today? Is it also bad that my expectations are extremely low?</p><p> </p><p>

I hope the revisions to the game proves me wrong.</p>

[tormyb]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>However, Prime Time, in my opinion can't really be done in TEW because the matches, for the most part, didn't happen live, but were recorded in the house show circuit, and then shown on TV.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I would love to be able to broadcast a highlights or compilation style show - whether it be matches from house shows (possibly only those you specify in your house show booking), or maybe matches from lesser or non-broadcast shows.</p><p> </p><p> An alternative to this could be some additional control over the company's social media or Youtube channel/website (e.g. releasing individual matches or highlights videos for free). I know that this isn't ideal for every era (could be era specific like PPV or the website design?), and I wouldn't want the game to become Total Extreme Social Media Executive 2020, but these would be ignorable features.</p><p> </p><p> I haven't really thought through what the gameplay impact of this would be, or how it should be balanced, but I like anything that gives more options in terms of company distribution and content release models. Increasingly, wrestling creative is expanding beyond just TV shows and big events. Even the concept of a cohesive show is no longer the only way to distribute wrestling content. The future of wrestling (trust me, I had my palms read) seems like it will include far more varied content release practices. I'd love to see this reflected in game.</p><p> </p><p> Anyway, maybe I'm straying away from wrestling booking and into corporate/management/marketing practices. I don't really know where to draw the line in this regard.</p><p> </p><p> Sorry, this wasn't really a reaction to the beta. As you were.</p>

[jbergey_2005]

Awesome news! Thanks for the hard work Adam.

[Brocky]

Had a lot of fun thus far with the beta. Thanks for all your work Adam, and everyone else who has contributed to this project. Didn't expect myself to have as much fun as I did with just a limited beta, but it surprised me.

[Sons of Kohral]

At the very least, regardless how you feel about the game, I think we all can admit that Adam has worked extremely hard on it and listened to our screeching like a professional, especially these last few weeks.

[Xendarii]

At the very least, regardless how you feel about the game, I think we all can admit that Adam has worked extremely hard on it and listened to our screeching like a professional, especially these last few weeks.

 

I absolutely agree with this post. There's a lot of indie developers out there who would've reacted very defensively, trying to put the blame on the players instead. Adam's accepted that the game has flaws and tried his best to work on it. No matter whether the result will be "enough" for me to buy the game, I can respect that.