Killing the Business 2020 MOD FULL RELEASE

[Spectre]

I feel shes ridden a wave of hype since 2016. She popped big in front of a crowd that popped for everything they saw. Her stuff with Brit was okay at best and the match was SLOW. On top of that Bea generates absolutely no reaction in Stardom and while Japanese crowds tend to be quieter compare her to Mayu/Kagetsu/Arisa/Hana/Jungle/Giulia and it becomes clear she's just not all that. Shes been full time in Stardom for over a year and still hasn't clicked and cut some of the worst promos I've seen

I agree, but your point was that the AEW crowd wouldn't be into her, when we know that they were. They were actually very into her, and it has to be more than just the live crowd being into everything, as her reactions were far better than almost every other woman to ever perform in front of an AEW crowd. There has to be something there that appeals to the "smarky" crowd, as you said.

[Moxley]

- remove Brian Cage's starting injury

- add a starting injury Partial Lateral Collateral Ligament Tear to Britt Baker for 6 weeks.

- add HBO Max

- change Adam Page's relationship status to Married

- change Nick Jackson's relationship status to Married and Based In to South West.

- change Matt Jackson's Based In to South West.

- I'd also make his personality Relaxed and add Hot New Catchphrase ("Cowboy Shit")

- add Dax Harwood and Cash Wheeler to AEW

[JCStensland]

Total waste of a post but I just realized how the pics for the Best Friends are and had a good chuckle. No idea why that amuses me so much.

 

EDIT: Also, this is just my opinion but the perceptions for Butcher & Blade might need to be swapped or at least equalized. Most wrestling fans might know who The Blade/Pepper Parks/Braxton Sutter is but a lot of people might not have heard of ETID and Andy Williams.

[kingbadger]

I'll take a look at the popularity before I up on the next update

 

This is the main thing putting me off playing the mod is the balance in the game in terms of popularity. For instance whilst MJF is a great young talent and has had plenty of airtime and major feuds in AEW, he's still only been in the eye of casual fans on national TV since October. Yet he's on the same popularity level as Matt Hardy, who is a future hall of famer, as well as Sami Zayn who beat Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania this year - there should be a sizeable difference in popularity between a young star in a fledgling promotion and established wrestlers who have spent years and years competing for WWE and winning titles.

 

Just looking at AEW the balance is way off, for instance you have Peter Avalon and Jungle Boy both at 40, despite one being pushed as a future star, main eventing Dynamite wrestling Jericho etc, whilst the other is jobbed out on Dark and hasn't won a match. Just looking at those on the AEW roster who have 55 popularity, you've got established stars like Christopher Daniels as well as the Inner Circle (minus Jericho) on the same popularity as Bunny and Jimmy Havoc, who barely feature on Dynamite.

 

There's a ton of indie wrestlers featuring in ROH, Impact, MLW etc who have had very minimal exposure on national TV and would be completely unknown to casual fans yet are within 5 or less popularity points of the likes of Matt Hardy, Samoa Joe, Sami Zayn etc who are all very well established, mainstream wrestlers who haven't been off telly in years.

[gazwefc83]

This is the main thing putting me off playing the mod is the balance in the game in terms of popularity. For instance whilst MJF is a great young talent and has had plenty of airtime and major feuds in AEW, he's still only been in the eye of casual fans on national TV since October. Yet he's on the same popularity level as Matt Hardy, who is a future hall of famer, as well as Sami Zayn who beat Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania this year - there should be a sizeable difference in popularity between a young star in a fledgling promotion and established wrestlers who have spent years and years competing for WWE and winning titles.

 

Just looking at AEW the balance is way off, for instance you have Peter Avalon and Jungle Boy both at 40, despite one being pushed as a future star, main eventing Dynamite wrestling Jericho etc, whilst the other is jobbed out on Dark and hasn't won a match. Just looking at those on the AEW roster who have 55 popularity, you've got established stars like Christopher Daniels as well as the Inner Circle (minus Jericho) on the same popularity as Bunny and Jimmy Havoc, who barely feature on Dynamite.

 

There's a ton of indie wrestlers featuring in ROH, Impact, MLW etc who have had very minimal exposure on national TV and would be completely unknown to casual fans yet are within 5 or less popularity points of the likes of Matt Hardy, Samoa Joe, Sami Zayn etc who are all very well established, mainstream wrestlers who haven't been off telly in years.

 

I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, but I can't get on board with some of your reasoning, just because somebody has been on TV for years, it does not make them more popular, you are confusing noterity with overness.

 

Also the argument of being on mainstream TV means nothing after a certain level, almost all wrestling is freely available online now and most wrestling fans now have a wider knowledge of those outside of wwe than they have in the past.

 

TEW doesn't distinguish between casual and hardcore fans, therefore I have to base popularity on some sort of scale, I went for TEW 2016s overness descriptors, you can't do that now unfortunately.

 

In terms of providing feedback it would be more helpful if you could post some examples of perceptions that you disagree with rather than looking at the actual numbers.

[NoLegsGaming]

I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, but I can't get on board with some of your reasoning, just because somebody has been on TV for years, it does not make them more popular, you are confusing noterity with overness.

 

Also the argument of being on mainstream TV means nothing after a certain level, almost all wrestling is freely available online now and most wrestling fans now have a wider knowledge of those outside of wwe than they have in the past.

 

TEW doesn't distinguish between casual and hardcore fans, therefore I have to base popularity on some sort of scale, I went for TEW 2016s overness descriptors, you can't do that now unfortunately.

 

In terms of providing feedback it would be more helpful if you could post some examples of perceptions that you disagree with rather than looking at the actual numbers.

 

He's absolutely right Gaz, popularity is defined as how well liked somebody is. That's not how the game uses it though. The feature should be renamed to "recognisable".

 

It's not about how popular or well liked people are, it's about how well known they are. That's why the likes of Rock, Hogan, Cena and Austin always have more than anyone else because they are more well known.

 

There's not a single region in this game where Jimmy Havoc should have more or similar popularity than/to the likes of Christopher Daniels.

[gazwefc83]

He's absolutely right Gaz, popularity is defined as how well liked somebody is. That's not how the game uses it though. The feature should be renamed to "recognisable".

 

It's not about how popular or well liked people are, it's about how well known they are. That's why the likes of Rock, Hogan, Cena and Austin always have more than anyone else because they are more well known.

 

There's not a single region in this game where Jimmy Havoc should have more or similar popularity than/to the likes of Christopher Daniels.

 

That's not true otherwise, defeats would not loose you popularity, you don't become less known because you lost a match. If it was about how well known you are Hogan would be 100 across America and the UK, that is not how the game works.

 

The game now works on perception not popularity or notoriety, this translate to importance rather than anything else. Please give me some examples of people with incorrect perceptions and I'll get them fixed.

[NoLegsGaming]

That's not true otherwise, defeats would not loose you popularity, you don't become less known because you lost a match. If it was about how well known you are Hogan would be 100 across America and the UK, that is not how the game works.

 

The game now works on perception not popularity or notoriety, this translate to importance rather than anything else. Please give me some examples of people with incorrect perceptions and I'll get them fixed.

 

It's absolutely based on how well known a wrestler is. That's why when someone wins a match on a well-covered event in the game, their statistic increases, as they are now more well known by a lot more people. That's how the game works, and that's also how wrestling works.

 

Perception works hand in hand with notoriety. Notoriety is defined as "the state of being famous or well known." The more high profile matches that you win, the more well known and notorious you can become. That's how wrestling works, that's how real life works.

 

The reason Hogan, Ronda, Rock and Cena always have the most "popularity" is because they're more well known then every other person in the wrestling world, as they're mainstream personnel.

[Jjollymore12]

I'm so glad other people are talking about the popularity issues. All stats seem to be on point but the popularity structure in this mod is so bad that the mod is unplayable to me. I can't get through even a month of game time.

[Taker4455]

It's absolutely based on how well known a wrestler is. That's why when someone wins a match on a well-covered event in the game, their statistic increases, as they are now more well known by a lot more people. That's how the game works, and that's also how wrestling works.

 

Perception works hand in hand with notoriety. Notoriety is defined as "the state of being famous or well known." The more high profile matches that you win, the more well known and notorious you can become. That's how wrestling works, that's how real life works.

 

The reason Hogan, Ronda, Rock and Cena always have the most "popularity" is because they're more well known then every other person in the wrestling world, as they're mainstream personnel.

 

I have to agree with this. It is, or at least should be, based on how well known a wrestler is.

[gazwefc83]

It's absolutely based on how well known a wrestler is. That's why when someone wins a match on a well-covered event in the game, their statistic increases, as they are now more well known by a lot more people. That's how the game works, and that's also how wrestling works.

 

Perception works hand in hand with notoriety. Notoriety is defined as "the state of being famous or well known." The more high profile matches that you win, the more well known and notorious you can become. That's how wrestling works, that's how real life works.

 

The reason Hogan, Ronda, Rock and Cena always have the most "popularity" is because they're more well known then every other person in the wrestling world, as they're mainstream personnel.

 

So, Jon Moxley loses to MJF, Jon Moxley instantly becomes less well known?

[tryker2710]

The most important thing is to avoid confusing recognisability with popularity. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting etc may all be recognisable but they don't put asses in seats. Their names can't sell out massive arenas any more, which should be represented by them having lower popularity than at their peak. Hogan would probably be at B/B-, Flair about B-/C+ and Sting at about B-. Popular but not huge stars. And remember that in TEW, cult level companies can sign guys around those popularities to written deals... in fact, it's pretty much why the game has them set at that level. And look at the way that Adam has handled veterans in the Cornellverse. Rip Chord is still a big name, but he's down from his peak. Sam Keith wrestled for a long time, but his declining skills and lower match quality sapped his popularity over the years too. For a balanced mod, you need to remember to do this too (which I'll cover more of later).

 

Quoted from Derek B's mod making guide (which really should be moved to this forum I feel). In fact due to the fact this was written more than 7 years ago I'd degrade all of those guys popularity a little bit, especially Sting who hasn't made significant wrestling appearance in half a decade.

 

I think that guide is an important read for anybody having this discussion because while it isn't gospel it is a great starting point for where we're coming from. Hogan especially just isn't a draw anymore and a lot of people tune out to avoid Hogan, outside Saudi Arabia he doesn't sell tickets to wrestling events anymore.

[TheCed]

Is the mod based on Derek B's guide?

 

Also, can you explain the conservative approach on skills? Most workers are barely in the 90s when it comes to most skills such as psychology.

[gazwefc83]

Is the mod based on Derek B's guide?

 

Also, can you explain the conservative approach on skills? Most workers are barely in the 90s when it comes to most skills such as psychology.

 

While its not based on Derek B's guide, it is certainly influenced by it.

 

In terms of skills, this is how kills are represented in TEW and in this mod

 

90 = Excellent

80 = Great

70 = Good

55 = Decent

45 = Not Awful

30 = Awful

 

The plain fact is not many people reach excellent levels of skill and even fewer reach anything above that.

[NoLegsGaming]

Quoted from Derek B's mod making guide (which really should be moved to this forum I feel). In fact due to the fact this was written more than 7 years ago I'd degrade all of those guys popularity a little bit, especially Sting who hasn't made significant wrestling appearance in half a decade.

 

I think that guide is an important read for anybody having this discussion because while it isn't gospel it is a great starting point for where we're coming from. Hogan especially just isn't a draw anymore and a lot of people tune out to avoid Hogan, outside Saudi Arabia he doesn't sell tickets to wrestling events anymore.

 

Hogan is absolutely still a huge draw, he's less popular granted, and that's mainly because of his actions over the course of the last decade or so. Hulk Hogan, whether we like it or not is still a mainstream name in the western world.

 

People tune out because they don't like him, as he's a highly controversial figure. He's still incredibly well known.

[NoLegsGaming]

So, Jon Moxley loses to MJF, Jon Moxley instantly becomes less well known?

 

MJF would become more well known, Moxley's perception in the eyes of the fans would decrease. I'm not saying he'd be less well known. Anyone with a brain knows that he wouldn't be, I'm just stating how the game works.

[gazwefc83]

Hogan is absolutely still a huge draw, he's less popular granted, and that's mainly because of his actions over the course of the last decade or so. Hulk Hogan, whether we like it or not is still a mainstream name in the western world.

 

People tune out because they don't like him, as he's a highly controversial figure. He's still incredibly well known.

 

If you honestly think that Hogan is still a huge draw then im out of this debate, Hulk Hogan in america, canada or the UK does not sell tickets to a wrestling event.

[tryker2710]

Hogan is absolutely still a huge draw, he's less popular granted, and that's mainly because of his actions over the course of the last decade or so. Hulk Hogan, whether we like it or not is still a mainstream name in the western world.

 

People tune out because they don't like him, as he's a highly controversial figure. He's still incredibly well known.

 

Hard disagree on this one. Hogan might pop a rating on some day time talk show, but he simply isn't a draw in WWE anymore outside of a market like Saudi Arabia who seem to be very into wrestling from the past.

 

"Popularity" in TEW is entirely wrestling-centric due to the fact that it's a wrestling simulator it's why somebody like Gronk would be fairly low down the card in WWE despite the fact he's one of the best and most well know tight ends to every play in the NFL.

 

Hogan would be a massive draw for an ROH or a Progress but that's exactly my point he'd be a massive get for those smaller company's who need that mainstream appeal but in wrestling terms he should be much less popular than somebody like The Rock and less popular than WWE as a company.

[NoLegsGaming]

If you honestly think that Hogan is still a huge draw then im out of this debate, Hulk Hogan in america, canada or the UK does not sell tickets to a wrestling event.

 

He gets people to tune in, that's a huge part of being a draw. Remember when he came back at WrestleMania a couple years back and there was a huge pop? Why did the vast majority of this crowd of tens of thousands of people cheer so much? Oh yeah! It's because he's a draw.

[DeathZone2]

In regards to popularity, how pop is scaled needs to be based on viewership. Take for example Nick Aldis and Seth Rollins. They are both main eventers and are booked strongly on their shows. However Aldis is seen by 200k people and Rollins by 2 million. Using scaling, there's about 3,5 million US viewers for wrestling. And just being very generous, let's say all 200k who have seen Aldis wrestle in the NWA are American. Aldis is still seen by 10% of the audience that sees Rollins wrestle every week. So in no way should he be near Rollins in terms of pop. Let's take Okada for example, in Japan he'd be about 80 pop. In America, going off of New Japan's numbers in America, he'd be at about 40 to 50. And that's being generous.

 

EDIT: On the Hogan debate, he is absolutely a draw. Just last year 500k tuned in for his segment with Flair, then immediately tuned out when it was over. If that isn't a draw, I don't know what is.

[gazwefc83]

In regards to popularity, how pop is scaled needs to be based on viewership. Take for example Nick Aldis and Seth Rollins. They are both main eventers and are booked strongly on their shows. However Aldis is seen by 200k people and Rollins by 2 million. Using scaling, there's about 3,5 million US viewers for wrestling. And just being very generous, let's say all 200k who have seen Aldis wrestle in the NWA are American. Aldis is still seen by 10% of the audience that sees Rollins wrestle every week. So in no way should he be near Rollins in terms of pop. Let's take Okada for example, in Japan he'd be about 80 pop. In America, going off of New Japan's numbers in America, he'd be at about 40 to 50. And that's being generous.

 

In terms of TEW the best way to scale popularity is to take WWE as a base, and think about were a wrestler would be placed on the card if WWE were to sign them, most indy guys come in at midcard/lower midcard and work their way up.

 

If you scaled popularity on viewership, anybody wwe signed end up as jobbers.

[NoLegsGaming]

In regards to popularity, how pop is scaled needs to be based on viewership. Take for example Nick Aldis and Seth Rollins. They are both main eventers and are booked strongly on their shows. However Aldis is seen by 200k people and Rollins by 2 million. Using scaling, there's about 3,5 million US viewers for wrestling. And just being very generous, let's say all 200k who have seen Aldis wrestle in the NWA are American. Aldis is still seen by 10% of the audience that sees Rollins wrestle every week. So in no way should he be near Rollins in terms of pop. Let's take Okada for example, in Japan he'd be about 80 pop. In America, going off of New Japan's numbers in America, he'd be at about 40 to 50. And that's being generous.

 

EDIT: On the Hogan debate, he is absolutely a draw. Just last year 500k tuned in for his segment with Flair, then immediately tuned out when it was over. If that isn't a draw, I don't know what is.

 

I couldn't agree more mate.

[tryker2710]

He gets people to tune in, that's a huge part of being a draw. Remember when he came back at WrestleMania a couple years back and there was a huge pop? Why did the vast majority of this crowd of tens of thousands of people cheer so much? Oh yeah! It's because he's a draw.

 

Actually there were plans to have Hogan appear at this year's wrestlemania (as a surprise so he wouldn't have sold tickets on name value) so as to pop the Tampa audience which were scrapped when it was revealed that there wouldn't be a crowd.

 

This implies that WWE know Hogan being attached to a show would pop an audience as a surprise (because wrestling crowds love surprises) but wouldn't pull in any new viewers by being attached to the show. And the fact he's 66 and they left him off for health reasons can be debunked by the fact that Jerry Lawler was on commentary at 70 until April 27th which was three weeks after Wreslemania.

 

Edit: To add onto this a draw is somebody who puts "butts in seats". The fact people are willing to watch you for free on cable tv (I know cable isn't free but there is no extra cost to watch specifically RAW as opposed to buying a ticket to attend) doesn't mean you're a draw. It's the PPV numbers and ticket sales you bring in which prove whether or not you're a draw.

[Questlove]

I'll weigh in real quick: the biggest problem with popularity in TEW is it's left entirely up to interpretation. There's no objective guideline to follow because the game isn't built to simulate real wrestling, and especially not wrestling past the late 90s-early 2000s. Even if you do scale on viewership and give everybody low pop, they'll end up in the 50s within months because Tiny broadcasters give stupid gains. There is no winning when it comes to making a current day RW mod.

[NoLegsGaming]

In terms of TEW the best way to scale popularity is to take WWE as a base, and think about were a wrestler would be placed on the card if WWE were to sign them, most indy guys come in at midcard/lower midcard and work their way up.

 

If you scaled popularity on viewership, anybody wwe signed end up as jobbers.

 

I highly disagree. If someone joins the company that the vast majority of their audience is unfamiliar with then their popularity rating should reflect that. If that isn't done, then their rating is incorrect, and their perception is incorrect as well.

 

Consequently, this then leads to their ratings for matches and promos being incorrect, as is their financial value to promotions, which leads to inflated contracts. Additionally, companies will receive match ratings and show ratings that are higher than they should be, and then as a result their popularity will increase further and faster than it should be.

 

False attributes/ratings throw off the balance of the entire game.