Can we all agree. Option to turn pop cap off

[BobbyRogers]

I did not know this was a big deal for other players, i also started a topic about this in the suggestion forums:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549034

 

 

That said, i prefer who it used to be. I love the idea of trying to push a totally useless worker to the moon. For people who say "that is cheating or unrealistic" all i can say about that is, the WWE has pushed below par talent in the past and taken them to significant heights, often that talent had zero actual ability besides maybe Menace or look (Great Khali is possibly the most well known recent example). So if this happens in real life, why is the game restricting us?

 

 

If you are concerned that the pop cap is killing match ratings or figureheads,

Khali never consistently (to say the least) had 90-100 rated matches when he was pushed to the top irl. Nor was he a great figurehead. He was over in India, though. So he could sell t-shirts there. The game accounts for guys like Khali. Neither did Ultimate Warrior. Marko Stunt will never have that either.

 

I actually find TEW2020 more open when it comes to pop perception by fans and momentum. Also, mod makers (or us) can set Potential for all the skills to high or add Historical Events to boost stats and pop in the DB if we are worried about accuracy for Steve Austin.

 

Now, should it be an option? I am not against us having options to turn things on and off. I am really enjoying 2020 as it is and haven't run across this as a frustrating or gamebreaking issue.

[d12345]

I don't see the point to the game if everyone can become a star.

 

If you're playing real world mods your understanding of the game is going to be flawed.

 

You're going to think things like "Oh it's 1990 let me get Steve Austin because he is 100% going to be a bigger star than Brian Christopher." And if in your game Austin doesn't become the biggest star you'll feel something is broken, when that is in fact the game functioning properly.

[Malioc]

The cap is simply too strict. Star quality is way too important for a stat that you essentially cant train much and wont improve much. It's silly to have a 19 year old worker that I know I can literally never use properly. I get that everyone cant get to 100 everywhere but too many guys cap out at 70 and its way too fickle as far as how and why people get above that naturally. It feels imbalanced. To me. Just my opinion. And its made more difficult by the weird emails I get after a show. A vet will tell me a young 28 year old is a star in the making for years and I should push him or that he wants to put him over and this and that. It made me feel like I was doing something wrong but its just another mechanic that doesnt jive with the pop cap system. It's a frustrating part of the game but one I've learned to work around. I still play and enjoy 2020 a lot with no intention of going back to 2016.

 

Good post. I agree a lot with it.

 

I would also add, that it's too easy to get wrestlers over (until they reach the cap).

 

I'd love a less stale approach, where a wrestler always can get more famous. But not with just "normal" booking. And where other wrestlers naturally decline again, because others overshine them.

[WCGreyghost]

I don't see the point to the game if everyone can become a star.

 

 

Fine. Play the game your way. All we want is an option to do it differently. Allowing people to turn the pop cap off doesn't affect anybody else or the way they play. Let the fantasy bookers put the belt on one of the Mulkey brothers if they want.

[bigtplaystew]

I think you've got the wrong impression and think that the popularity cap is just a random number unconnected to stats that gets set at the start of the game and never changes. It is a fluid number that is calculated on-the-fly whenever needed and is based on a number of their existing stats (including Star Quality and Charisma).

 

So what about the topic at hand? The ability to someday turn this off as we can with other parts of the game like Perfect Crowd Theory and Match Aim Requirements. Is it possible? Something that can be looked into?

 

Even if its not possible or its something you simply dont want to do for artistic reasons I would get that but it would help either way to know which direction you're taking on this issue.

 

Thanks for the info though it always helps. I knew SQ was a factor. Charisma for me was a little dicier. There were a few people who I editted up JUST their SQ or JUST their Charisma and the ones whose SQ increased... I was able to greatly impact their pop cap. The ones with just charisma... I didnt see the dramatic gains at least not immediately. Obviously the ones where I editted both saw big gains in pop cap but it was hard to tell if it was basically just the SQ or what.

 

While I'm at it if this question is too gamey and inside baseball just ignore it but it's worth a shot: Does the experience stat factor in? I'm pretty sure it does based on my time with the game but itd be wonderful to know if I'm wrong.

[jgriff3029]

Just curious if the trick of using the editor and changing a capped workers popularity to 100 for a day and then moving it back still works. If it does, this seems like the easiest solution. That way if a worker who you want to push has a cap, you can basically eliminate it, while not upsetting game balance and having everyone become uncapped.

[ShaunGBD]

Just curious if the trick of using the editor and changing a capped workers popularity to 100 for a day and then moving it back still works. If it does, this seems like the easiest solution. That way if a worker who you want to push has a cap, you can basically eliminate it, while not upsetting game balance and having everyone become uncapped.

 

It doesn't because adam saids the cap always changing.

 

I just say give us an option to turn it off

[TheChef]

WWE has pushed below par talent in the past and taken them to significant heights, often that talent had zero actual ability besides maybe Menace or look (Great Khali is possibly the most well known recent example). So if this happens in real life, why is the game restricting us?[/u]

 

OK, but how over do you think Khali was in game terms? 60-65 pop maybe at best? He was never seen as a major star. Pushed as one, yes, but perceived as one, definitely not. The same can arguably be said even for Roman Reigns. Pop capped at about 70, but pushed as if he was 95. You can do this in the game. Push whoever you want but maybe the fans won't agree with you. Hence, perception.

 

Plus, isn't the point of the game figuring out who is a star, then pushing that person? If you push whoever you want in spite of fan perception, well, then you're Vince McMahon.

[Vinsmoker]

OK, but how over do you think Khali was in game terms? 60-65 pop maybe at best? He was never seen as a major star. Pushed as one, yes, but perceived as one, definitely not. The same can arguably be said even for Roman Reigns. Pop capped at about 70, but pushed as if he was 95. You can do this in the game. Push whoever you want but maybe the fans won't agree with you. Hence, perception.

 

Plus, isn't the point of the game figuring out who is a star, then pushing that person? If you push whoever you want in spite of fan perception, well, then you're Vince McMahon.

 

Major Star and Popularity are two different things. Roman Reigns is definitely considered a Major Star and, atleast for a short period of time, The Great Khali was atleast considered a star.

[TheChef]

Major Star and Popularity are two different things. Roman Reigns is definitely considered a Major Star and, atleast for a short period of time, The Great Khali was atleast considered a star.

 

But they're not different things. A worker's perception is based directly off their popularity, enhanced by momentum. The perception of a worker is how popular they are in relation to the company. Roman Reigns would be considered a major star because he is somewhat popular (let's say 75) plus always has white hot momentum (20% multiplier) giving him around 90 in relation to WWE's base pop of about 80. Major star in game terms, but certainly not a guy with popularity of over 75 or 80 at best.

[rufas2000]

My two cents: I haven't played the game much for a few reasons, the popularity cap being one. When I read that Rocky Golden & Remo were being capped 10 points below their starting pop levels I got discouraged and went back to 2016. I know Adam made the strictest cap "a little less severe" but that doesn't sound like its enough for my preference.

 

I'm firmly in the "let people play the game in their own way" camp. If it makes the game too easy for it to be fun for you then don't do it.

 

As far as breaking the game wouldn't it be the same if in a mod all or most workers started at a high popularity? I'm not a programmer so maybe it would break the game. Honest question.

 

A compromise might be to be able to turn it off for certain workers or preset their destiny so someone like Hulk Hogan (or Rocky in the C-verse) doesn't end up a midcarder because he got a bad destiny roll without jacking up their relevant stats ridiculously high

 

I've already bought the game. I'll play it at some point but I'm still enjoying the relaxing and familiar 2016. So I won't be another sale because I bought it and have no regrets. I support Adam. I just disagree on this and a few other game decisions but I still have much respect!

 

Feedback is good. That's my take, respectfully submitted.

[Marciano]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="infinitywpi" data-cite="infinitywpi" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="51227" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"When everyone is a superstar, nobody will be."</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> except me. like a true nature's child, I was born... born to be wild... I can climb so high... <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[bigtplaystew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jgriff3029" data-cite="jgriff3029" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="51227" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just curious if the trick of using the editor and changing a capped workers popularity to 100 for a day and then moving it back still works. If it does, this seems like the easiest solution. That way if a worker who you want to push has a cap, you can basically eliminate it, while not upsetting game balance and having everyone become uncapped.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You can directly edit the popularity of a worker up as you want. IF you have The Rock with a pop cap at 92 for instance, if you edit his pop to 100 he will stay there if you keep him hot and winning. So you can edit yourself PAST the cap but the cap remains in place. If he loses he will start to naturally drift down towards 92 until he stays there. At least in my experience I may be wrong.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="51227" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It doesn't because adam saids the cap always changing.<p> </p><p> I just say give us an option to turn it off</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I THINK it's always recalculated but not always changing. There are things that happen that give your workers sudden boosts in skills, so the cap will be recalculated based on the worker's stats the day of the show you are booking. But in my experience pop cap doesnt go DOWN until the workers start getting old.</p><p> </p><p> Unless you directly edit his skills or something catastrophic that never happened to me exists in the game your workers skills wont decrease until they get old so I'm guessing thats why this happens.</p>

[WCGreyghost]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="51227" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> Plus, isn't the point of the game figuring out who is a star, then pushing that person? If you push whoever you want in spite of fan perception, well, then you're Vince McMahon.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not necessarily. This game seems to draw at least two distinct types of players. Some people are less into the gaming aspects than they are fantasy booking. I do a little of both. My current TCW save is virtually unedited from the default CVerse, and I'm trying to knock off USPW for the top promotion in the world. I also have an 80s mod with a heavily edited database and an improbably loaded all star roster for pure fantasy booking. I stacked the deck...gave myself plenty of money, created a broadcaster, turned off anything I find annoying, and now I book stuff like I used to watch as a kid. Totally different approaches to playing TEW, and equally valid.</p>

[ZMAN]

I mean, if people care so little about the gaming aspect, couldn't they just run fantasy booking through Excel and Word? If you take away the rules of the game, isn't that all your left with? I doubt anyone will know the difference if you fantasy book Guerrero and HBK having a 20 star match. Just use the base game, or hell even the demo, as a reference for the talent pool.

[bigtplaystew]

<p>No one is saying there should be no rules. No one is saying everyone should be a star. I dont know where you guys are coming up with this but it seems like youre arguing against points that were never made.</p><p> </p><p>

Some players would simply like the option to turn off the worker cap as they find the new system cumbersome. </p><p> </p><p>

I'm personally on the fence. I find the pop cap to be an interesting challenge and I don't fully understand it yet. considering I've been playing this game a lot I'd say thats a GOOD thing that it's kept me hooked. But I like options so if the option to turn it off was available I'd be for it but if it's something that cant be done or it's something Adam thinks is part of a better game design and he doesn't want to change it because he disagrees with those players, I personally would totally understand.</p><p> </p><p>

I've said many times TEW2020 is an amazing game and with all the new things I love I can deal with a few things I don't love. I've yet to play a game that was total bliss. While i find the new pop cap system to be frustrating at times, frustration is part of gaming and always will be.</p>

[LoganRodzen]

Options, options, options! Most games offer a sandbox mode to go along with a career mode. Not really sure why something like this couldn't be done. I doubt many will actually use it but like my first statement... options!

[HarryFandango86]

It is true. It’s a bit like how on football manager you can just edit all your players to be the best in the world and win every game without a worry.

[rufas2000]

I mean, if people care so little about the gaming aspect, couldn't they just run fantasy booking through Excel and Word? If you take away the rules of the game, isn't that all your left with? I doubt anyone will know the difference if you fantasy book Guerrero and HBK having a 20 star match. Just use the base game, or hell even the demo, as a reference for the talent pool.

 

There is a happy medium between wanting pop caps turned off and wanting to make everyone a star. I and some of my fellow advocates for this still want to do the work of building a star but without a random chance we can't. I don't want to get 6 months into a game and realize no matter what I do Sammy Bach will never be a star (one of my personal faves). Or Randy Savage in a real world mod.

 

And if someone proposed removing the pop caps entirely I would be against that as well. I see why people would like it. I personally don't. Both viewpoints are valid.

 

And the more I think of it I think being able to set a destiny in the editor (not the in game one) is the way to go. So if I want to have Bach, Peak and Wolf be my stars I can get rid of the random chance they can't be while still retaining the challenge and the cap for everyone else. Again, especially useful in real world mods that may want to set certain paradigms (and you could edit a worker to have a severe cap for scenarios such as "What if Steve Austin never became a star"? without nerfing his skills).

[TheChef]

I and some of my fellow advocates for this still want to do the work of building a star but without a random chance we can't. I don't want to get 6 months into a game and realize no matter what I do Sammy Bach will never be a star.

 

But there's always a random chance that someone you build to be a star won't be one, no matter how good they are. See Reigns, Roman. Luger, Lex. Gunn, Billy. And many, many, many more.

[Peter.1986]

I mean, if people care so little about the gaming aspect, couldn't they just run fantasy booking through Excel and Word? If you take away the rules of the game, isn't that all your left with? I doubt anyone will know the difference if you fantasy book Guerrero and HBK having a 20 star match. Just use the base game, or hell even the demo, as a reference for the talent pool.

 

This is exactly correct.

 

People who use ‘fantasy booking’

 

Would they like to choose their own ratings? Etc

 

You can already edit your worker. You wanna get a jobber to win the title? Edit his skills and his pop.

 

It’s almost like they want to play the game but then because the game is not giving them the outcome they want, they want it changing.

 

Resources would be better off spent on making improvements to the game elsewhere.

[Peter.1986]

There is a happy medium between wanting pop caps turned off and wanting to make everyone a star. I and some of my fellow advocates for this still want to do the work of building a star but without a random chance we can't. I don't want to get 6 months into a game and realize no matter what I do Sammy Bach will never be a star (one of my personal faves). Or Randy Savage in a real world mod.

 

And if someone proposed removing the pop caps entirely I would be against that as well. I see why people would like it. I personally don't. Both viewpoints are valid.

 

And the more I think of it I think being able to set a destiny in the editor (not the in game one) is the way to go. So if I want to have Bach, Peak and Wolf be my stars I can get rid of the random chance they can't be while still retaining the challenge and the cap for everyone else. Again, especially useful in real world mods that may want to set certain paradigms (and you could edit a worker to have a severe cap for scenarios such as "What if Steve Austin never became a star"? without nerfing his skills).

 

So basically you want a cheat put in the game so you get people over that shouldn’t be be getting over? Why not just make Their skills better?

 

Trying to push someone for 6 months and them not getting over is literally a big part of wrestling. Ever character is used with an intention to get over. I’m sure Vince would have liked to push 99% of his workers to be major starts IRL, but he chose to push who he did, not because he liked them, but because he thought they couldn’t draw.

 

Some he pushed and pushed and and they never got over, some he tried to push and dropped the push too early. Some got over more than he expected.

 

That is literally the biggest part of being a wrestling Booker

[AnthonyUK]

But there's always a random chance that someone you build to be a star won't be one, no matter how good they are. See Reigns, Roman. Luger, Lex. Gunn, Billy. And many, many, many more.

 

Yes but every one of them had defects in either their skillset or the way that they were pushed. Billy gunn never had some random destiny roll saying he'll never be a star, despite WWF booking him perfectly.

 

In this game you have have a guy with great skills, push them perfectly but they can never be a mega star because of a RNG that says they won't be.

 

I saw it in a recent RW gane, my Major star who was putting on 100 angles and 80-ish matches for a medium to just big company the top merch seller, got stuck at 70. Now i'm not saying they should be 100, but it just brought my game to a halt when other lesser or similar workers could break the 70 and they couldn't i then realised no matter how great i book my worker, the game is about finding those ones with the good rolls, not being able to book my worker correctly.

[Adam Ryland]

I'm closing this thread as it's now just the same two viewpoints being repeated over and over with slightly different wording.