Are TEW dynasties dying?

[mk56]

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong forum, I wasn't sure if it should go here or the dynasties forum. If I should have posted it there, then please feel free to move it. Or I can repost.

 

Anyway, I've been thinking of starting a dynasty here on the forums lately but whenever I check the dynasty board I get cold feet. It just seems like, more often than not, the writers are basically just talking to themselves. What I mean by that is their dynasty will get views, maybe a lot of views, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of engagement from those viewers. Sure, they'll get a few generic predictions for a show now and then, most of the time with the predictor not really commenting on why they chose the winner or winners they did, but other than that it's basically crickets. Of course, some writers get tons of predictions, and comments, and pats on the back for the interesting things they write, but they're definitely the exception and not the rule.

 

I think the thing that stumps me the most, though, is that there doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to which dynasties get any kind of response to speak of. For example, I'll see an outstanding diary with a great look and quality writing, and a consistent posting schedule and no one seems to take notice. Then a different guy with a jumbled mess of text with no pictures, and poor, uninteresting writing, who only posts a couple shows per month will be overwhelmed with comments and support. I certainly don't mean to take anything away from the second guy either, if he's enjoying himself and people are liking what he's putting out enough to respond, then who am I to judge. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I've read all the dynasty tips threads over the years too, the ones that say "you should just write for yourself, and if someone happens to like what you're doing, then fine. And if they don't, then who cares?" But it seems to me that the point of writing a dynasty is to share your game with others. To get feedback on what you're doing and what your readers like and don't like. But if no one is bothering to participate then why bother? You can just imagine everything in your head and save yourself all the work of posting a dynasty.

 

Maybe it's just that every interesting or unique idea for a dynasty has already been done. Or is there actually a pattern to which dynasties get engagement and which ones don't that I'm just not seeing? Or am I just crazy and majorly overthinking this?

 

What's everyone else's take?

[Dalton]

There is a lot to it.

 

They aren't dying by any means. The boards in July 2021 definitely are not at their peak, but there is still a VERY sizable base here. Oftentimes during the week, the entire 1st page has threads that had new posts made that same day.

 

I completely understand your overthinking here, because committing to a diary is a lot of work and you want to know if it's worth it. I agree with ya there. I had a Diary of the Year thread that I would fall in and out of love with throughout it's time. It happens.

 

One of the biggest things that will help you steer traffic your war is simply being involved. Commenting, predicting, giving feedback, etc will almost always result in those writers coming to your thread. And as for the randomness of getting feedback, again there's a lot to it. Some writers have been around forever and have notoriety now. For others, the "minimalist" approach is their thing and some people like that. In most cases, having good, engaging stories is what will bring people in, no matter how fancy the layout is.

 

It's a fun, dumb hobby that I enjoy a lot and so do many others here. I recommend trying it out for sure. I'll swing by your thread!!

[Jaysin]

It's literally been like this for like a decade

[ubernoob]

But it seems to me that the point of writing a dynasty is to share your game with others. To get feedback on what you're doing and what your readers like and don't like. But if no one is bothering to participate then why bother? You can just imagine everything in your head and save yourself all the work of posting a dynasty.

 

The point of a dynasty for most of the people doing them is to use it as an outlet for their creative energy because they enjoy doing it.

[eayragt]

For me I do it to make sure I have reasons for every segment, not just constantly throwing good workers together for ratings. It keeps me more engaged in the game, but it's easy to throw in a "cheat" segment or match if I'm not writing them up.

[Parker Stiles]

<p>i think theres many reasons behind it. but it's summer, and i can't speak for the rest of the world but I live in the US where it's 100% back to normal so everyones out enjoying the weather, bands, sports, forgetting 2020. So that def takes away from it</p><p> </p><p>

Theres another wrestling sim that probably takes from the customer here, but but Thunderverse when released I think we spark some brand new diaries and It's gonna be wonderful</p>

[outb0undflight]

Yeah I'd been wanting to start one because I have some good ideas but they're all Thunderverse ideas so I'm mostly just waiting for that.

[Dustin]

Hopefully the writers understand that a lot of lurkers also enjoy their work and don't get discouraged if they're not getting a lot of comments.

 

But if you think comments are that important, why not start leaving some yourself? Clearly you haven't been with 4 posts in 3 years lol.

[Sco xY2Jx]

You have to want to write a dynasty for yourself and for any creative enjoyment you get out of it. If you intend on writing a dynasty purely to try and get feedback and approval from others then you're in the wrong game.

 

Obviously, engagement from your viewers is important and it helps spur on the will to want to keep writing but you aren't always going to get it. As has been said before the best way to get engagement is by being engaging yourself. You've remarked that the dynasties section may be dead and you get cold feet as there's not a lot of engagement but Dustin is correct in pointing out that you've only made 4 comments in 3 years.

 

A good start would be to try and be a bit more active on the boards if/when you can and engage with others dynasties. Then when you start your own you'll be a bit more likely to have an audience yourself.

 

Good luck if you decide to start.

[PuroJoshi]

Then a different guy with a jumbled mess of text with no pictures, and poor, uninteresting writing, who only posts a couple shows per month will be overwhelmed with comments and support.

 

Firstly I'd say that this part is completely unnecessary, you can praise people without putting others down. Uninteresting is very subjective and if people are responding, clearly others don't agree.

 

As for the actual post, I read a lot more than I actually engage and I think that applies to others as well. To echo Parker, I don't really have time to check constantly so as a result I'm always playing catch up and therefore can't really take part in discussions around the diary.

[Teasenitryn]

There is a lot to it.

One of the biggest things that will help you steer traffic your war is simply being involved. Commenting, predicting, giving feedback, etc will almost always result in those writers coming to your thread.

 

I would think that is a good part of it. I am on a fic board on reddit, recently someone's had to put in there that responding to other people's stories is starting to feel like a job because there's three of four of them doing it and others who don't seem to want to engage with anyone else's story are starting to tag them. If you're seen to be an active member on the dynasties board others are more likely to pay it forward.

 

But as stated rule one pretty much should be you're writing it for yourself. Some people write stories whether they share them or not because it their check and balance keeping them from playing it in a booking by numbers approach because they have to justify what they are doing in a coherent story, anything else is a bonus.

[CQI13]

I would think that is a good part of it. I am on a fic board on reddit, recently someone's had to put in there that responding to other people's stories is starting to feel like a job because there's three of four of them doing it and others who don't seem to want to engage with anyone else's story are starting to tag them. If you're seen to be an active member on the dynasties board others are more likely to pay it forward.

 

But as stated rule one pretty much should be you're writing it for yourself. Some people write stories whether they share them or not because it their check and balance keeping them from playing it in a booking by numbers approach because they have to justify what they are doing in a coherent story, anything else is a bonus.

 

I have a game that I am likely to turn into a dynasty, but am just now going back to rewriting from the results. And it's funny because as I write the results now, I say to myself "this should happen next week."

 

When I look, sometimes it has, and sometimes it has not so I think to myself "why did I add this segment to the show but not what should have?"

 

Going forward I think I will be writing the shows following when they are booked so I know where to go with the next one.

 

I do have a segment or two that I have booked to pop a number, but my writing style is from the point of view of a reviewer, so I can write it off as "what were they thinking?"

 

In fact, I have some booking decisions that I openly question. Had an event where I expected a match to be good so I put it first, and it greatly outperformed my main event. But the match that closed the show was placed there because it makes sense for the story. But as a reviewer I can poke.fun at that decision, especially when it is followed by a real stinker of a match.

[Blackman]

I've only done a small diary for WMMA3 once, and the comments you read speak truly: you do it mainly for yourself, and if people are coming along for the ride, the better.

 

Keep in mind a lot of people will end up finding your dynasty way later and will enjoy it then. And there's a lot of lurkers.

[ProfetinhaPT]

I gave it two to three opportunities into writing a dynasty but it's quite hard for me. First of all, English is not my native language. Then I have a kid so I don't always have the time to keep writing and keep focused to continue it. Also, the big discouragement for me it's the pictures and graphical part of it, I can do some good graphics but posting and re-posting and adding this pic and the other and URL and another URL burdens me. Although I like the final outcomes, the graphical aspect of it feels like a chore and subsequently writing shows doesn't feel so spontaneous.

 

Although I really like the hobby, I'm more inclined to do a simple style dynasty with small reviews and some highlights but then people won't be engaged and attached to the characters as much as I am and I might lose interest down the line. I think that having standard "rules" for a diary puts a lot of people out of it.

 

As for what others have said, "Write it for yourself". On paper, it's a great concept but then why would you post it, if you don't really care about people reading it, their feedback or even that little comment I'm enjoying it? What I think you should focus on is - Why am I not getting any feedback? Why aren't people reading? If you ask these questions to yourself, your success in having feedback will probably increase.

 

On a final note, What makes this game better it's sharing your creative work with others and read their creative work as well. And when we are writing even if we don't plan to post it we write for an audience, voluntarily or involuntarily, even if a non-existent one.

[UEWpro]

F it bro. I'll do a dynasty. 1985 mod, I'm the WWF. Give me 5 rules to follow for the first year.

 

I'll give you storylines that will keep you up at night because your dreams won't be a safe place to hide anymore.

[BHK1978]

Anyway, I've been thinking of starting a dynasty here on the forums lately but whenever I check the dynasty board I get cold feet. It just seems like, more often than not, the writers are basically just talking to themselves. What I mean by that is their dynasty will get views, maybe a lot of views, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of engagement from those viewers. Sure, they'll get a few generic predictions for a show now and then, most of the time with the predictor not really commenting on why they chose the winner or winners they did, but other than that it's basically crickets. Of course, some writers get tons of predictions, and comments, and pats on the back for the interesting things they write, but they're definitely the exception and not the rule.[/Quote]

 

I have been guilty of just making predictions and not giving feedback. I have thought about this in the past. Maybe I do not have an overly analytical mind, but often if I like something I just like it and I sometimes struggle with why I do or do not like it.

 

I really don't like to post, "Hey good job." Over and over again because that really does not do anything for the writer, but as I said I am not highly analytical and therefore the hey good job would be the best feedback I could muster the vast majority of the time.

 

There have been times in the past when I have posted comments and the writer does not respond so I figure why should I go out of my way to post comments. I remember once, this was years ago, I was the only vocal supporter of this one writer (I don't think this writer even posts on here anymore.). I would try to comment on every show and the writer never responded. Then a writer with a higher profile on the site showed up and left a comment and the writer fell over themselves to respond. After that, I just stopped commenting in that diary because the writer was clearly not interested in my feedback.

 

On the writer's side of things, well I have been doing diaries on this site off and on for over ten years or so (Not so much recently, but from around 2009 to about 2015 area I always had a diary that was updated on a more regular basis.). My diaries never really had much of a vocal audience. I mean I have had people who are vocal but the vast majority of the time I don't really have people commenting.

 

There are times when people leave comments that there really is no way of responding. For instance when someone would say, "Good show." There really is not much to say other than, "Thank You."

 

I've read all the dynasty tips threads over the years too, the ones that say "you should just write for yourself, and if someone happens to like what you're doing, then fine. And if they don't, then who cares?" But it seems to me that the point of writing a dynasty is to share your game with others. To get feedback on what you're doing and what your readers like and don't like. But if no one is bothering to participate then why bother? You can just imagine everything in your head and save yourself all the work of posting a dynasty.[/Quote]

 

I am in the same camp as you are with this. I absolutely see no point in writing for myself, I want others to see it. I don't want to feel like the crazy person preaching to nobody as everyone ignores me. (I always remember there was this Charlie Manson looking dude out in front of the Alamo and he was raving about nonsense. Well, I stood there with him for half an hour and listened to him talk. He said to me, "Thank you brother for listening to me, nobody ever does.")

 

My view counts are always on low end of things (Well not my two SWF diaries). So I am often left thinking, "Why am I bothering with this?" Even when I would update my diaries on a regular basis, I would still get low view counts. Then I also get to thinking, "Why am I bothering to write fan fiction for a video game that hardly anyone reads?"

 

Maybe it's just that every interesting or unique idea for a dynasty has already been done. Or is there actually a pattern to which dynasties get engagement and which ones don't that I'm just not seeing? Or am I just crazy and majorly overthinking this?

 

You will see more success if you do a name promotion. WWF, AEW, ROH (To a lesser extent). If you are going C-Verse then SWF, TCW, and USPW are your best bets. People tend to be drawn to those promotions like moths to a flame.

 

There is a lot to it.

 

They aren't dying by any means. The boards in July 2021 definitely are not at their peak, but there is still a VERY sizable base here. Oftentimes during the week, the entire 1st page has threads that had new posts made that same day.[/Quote]

 

The whole site is dying a very slow death and has been for the past eight years. It is really starting to show now in the diary section and the Dog Pound. The Dog Pound used to be a driving force for this site but now only the WWE and AEW threads seem to get posts on a regular basis and really the Dog Pound is only kept alive by two or three posters and that is it. Which stinks because I remember when that whole entire section would have tons of replies in one day.

 

I have said this for years but I think a lot of people who used to post a ton, back when I first joined the site, were young and they have simply aged out of this site. There do not seem to be enough people that replaced those posters. Also, the lack of new games by GDS, in general, is probably hurting as well. I am willing to bet there are people who think that there really is not much reason to stick around and post in here when there is not much product coming out from the company.

 

One of the biggest things that will help you steer traffic your war is simply being involved. Commenting, predicting, giving feedback, etc will almost always result in those writers coming to your thread.

 

That might be the case now, but back when I first started writing diaries you would hardly ever see the "big name" writers post in other writer's threads. No matter how much you posted in their threads. I think the only two that I would see post in other writer's threads on a regular or semi-regular basis were Bigpapa and Dragonmack.

 

 

My point? My point is that just because it worked for some people and it helped them gain readers, does not mean it will work for everyone. So don't give feedback and become more active on the board with the hopes that it will draw more people because that might not end up being the case.

[Self]

Diaries would work better with a Thumbs Up button. An one-click way for readers to say "I read this and liked it". It's a lot to ask for someone to actually write something, I find, particularly when they have nothing to say beyond "I had fun". Which is a wonderful thing.

 

I remember doing End of Year polls for one of my diaries. I would get 5-6 replies to each of my shows, but received 30+ responses to the poll. Which felt good. Not everyone replied, but people read. I don't need 30+ pieces of opinion and feedback, but it's nice knowing the audience was there.

 

I love getting praise from writing diaries. I'd be a liar if I pretended I didn't. But I also enjoy the pressure that comes from them. In a private game, I can do what I want. Play on my own schedule. Fudge things if I want. Book rematch after rematch just for ratings. When it's public, it's 'real'. I have to justify decisions. I have to make it make sense. And I have to stick to a schedule. If my TV is on Sunday, then I'm making a post every Sunday, just like it real life. I like that challenge. At least I did, when I had the free time.

 

It does suck that the boards aren't as busy as they used to be. It's still one of my favorite places on the internet.

[Midnightnick]

If anything I've noticed more diaries now than I have in the past few months, its a matter of people finally figuring out the difficulty curve in TEW 2020, compound that by more and more mods being released (especially Thunderverse), it definitely isnt a dying form here.

[Dalton]

The whole site is dying a very slow death and has been for the past eight years. It is really starting to show now in the diary section and the Dog Pound. The Dog Pound used to be a driving force for this site but now only the WWE and AEW threads seem to get posts on a regular basis and really the Dog Pound is only kept alive by two or three posters and that is it. Which stinks because I remember when that whole entire section would have tons of replies in one day.

I get your point here and semi-agree with it, but there is still plenty of activity in the dynasty section. I wasn't around the dynasty scene back then so I can't speak on it, but for most of TEW2020's existence it's been busy in that forum. Like right now, all posts on the front page are from within the last 24 hours. Again, I wasn't around back then, but "dying a slow death" is a bit much .

 

As for the Dog Pound, I can attest that the unofficial GDScord has PLENTY of discussions that used to happen there. It seems like the conversations that used to happen there migrated to Discord. It's not on this message board obviously, but it is still extremely active.

[Historian]

Anyway, I've been thinking of starting a dynasty here on the forums lately but whenever I check the dynasty board I get cold feet. It just seems like, more often than not, the writers are basically just talking to themselves. What I mean by that is their dynasty will get views, maybe a lot of views, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of engagement from those viewers. Sure, they'll get a few generic predictions for a show now and then, most of the time with the predictor not really commenting on why they chose the winner or winners they did, but other than that it's basically crickets. Of course, some writers get tons of predictions, and comments, and pats on the back for the interesting things they write, but they're definitely the exception and not the rule...

 

The dynasty section of the forum isn't dead. There are clearly lots of updates happening. At the time I'm writing this, the entire front page (outside of the few stickied posts) are threads that have activity on them from today or yesterday.

 

My question is -- what sort of feedback are you expecting to see from people who read diaries? And I say this as someone who actively writes a diary and is a member of a multiplayer diary. I'm also a "successful" diary writer by most metrics you'd use on the site (not tooting my own horn). In the 2020 forum, I currently have the most viewed diary on the 2020 forum -- so people are reading my things. Sometimes, I get four or five predictions for a show with no comments. Sometimes I get more. It ebbs and flows. I tend to get comments after narrative pieces that I write that react to the narrative piece itself.

 

I also try to follow as many diaries as I can -- I haven't been as good as I once was -- my time over the past two months has been more limited, but I try to predict and give feedback. As a viewer, I don't always have the time. Sometimes, I'm predicting on my phone while I'm waiting to pick up medicine or while I'm on lunch or on my prep period. Sometimes I have four or five diaries pulled up and trying to get caught up in a shorter time span.

 

As a writer, I definitely appreciate feedback and participation. Several people on here give great feedback. I also appreciate people who are super consistent at predicting (people like smw88 come to mind). I also know that there are a lot of people who are just readers. They don't have a lot to say and just follow.

 

As for what hits, it depends. BHK pointed out that the major companies tend to get a lot more interaction. Real World diaries seem to also get a lot more, at least initial, reaction because people know that world or product or have memories they associate with that time/company etc...

 

I had a diary, The Climb, that started with no pictures at all and still gained a following. I also am historically bad at the actual writing of the shows -- mostly because I don't feel that people are reading the shows to see how good I can write the wrestling. I feel like they want the feel for what I'm doing and how I'm booking and want to see the character growth. I've always been a narrative-heavy writer and a reader who likes narratives in the diaries.

 

I can also say that it would behove you to participate in the diary community -- not because you have to -- but because you're more likely to get eyeballs on your stuff if people have seen you posting around.

 

If you want people to participate -- sometimes you also have to give them a reason to do so. Ask them questions that garner feedback. I've had lots of success when I've done polls for company-end of year awards. I've also had success with prediction contests in the past (I just don't tend to run them) where people can influence the game world.

 

There isn't a sure-fire formula to get people to take notice. You also might not always get the participation you want. Sometimes you'll get a lot of participation and then it will slow down and then pick back up.

 

At the end of the day, diary writing is supposed to be about having fun. Yes, you're sharing your output with other people but ultimately it should be something that you're doing because you enjoy doing it. This is a niche market. The traffic on the site and forums comes and goes. If you want to take a stab at a diary, do so. If you don't want to, that's fine too, but diary writing and the dynasties section is anything but dead.

[DarK_RaideR]

Much of what I had to say has already been analyzed, so there's only a few points to add.

 

Ever since I discovered these forums and diaries, the game experience itself has never been the same. I'd usually game the system for optimal results, so now doing a diary keeps me honest and on par with reasonable booking. It also allows me to get a little more creative with something if I want to, instead of thinking/writing something along the lines of "X talks about how he'll win the match and the crowd pops because they're good on the mic".

 

Furthermore, my gaming schedule is irregular. I may get to have a chance to book and/or run a single show, I may have time to do an entire in-game month's worth of shows, and next time I pick up the game might be several days, sometimes weeks later. It is the reason I no longer bother with games that have complicated controls or storylines, by the time I play again, I've forgotten my special powers or what I was supposed to be doing. TEW feels a lot more casual and forgiving in comparison. As such, doing a TEW diary also functions as a game log for me: I can come back and read my last show, which will remind me what I had in mind for the future or why someone was doing something or why what I just thought of is actually inconsistent with what happened at the previous show.

 

Predictions are an odd one, I do some for other people's diaries, but rarely run one on my own diaries, as I feel like there needs to be some sort of reward for it, usually the one who gets most ones right gets to affect a storyline or hiring decision, for them to be worth the trouble. To run them also assumes you know the card for your next show, which is something I usually don't. Some writers play out several shows in one sitting, then slowly convert their log into shows and thus can publish the card of the next one. If I do that, I usually shoot myself in the foot, because I mess up the timeline and end up writing about things as if they've happened, when they're actually going to happen in future shows. It also feels more like a burden, a backlog that has to be done, more work than fun, and that kills my drive, so I instead do a single show, which keeps me motivated to write it out so I can play more, then I'm motivated to play and see what happens next or realize my cool new idea, rinse, repeat.

 

But yeah, more or less we do diaries for ourselves and if people hop along for the ride, all the better. I understand affirmations make one feel nice and as good or motivating as a comment and a pat in the back can feel, it's even worse and deflating to feel like you're shouting into the void and no one notices. Factor in the silent lurkers, those who play catch up, those who like your stuff but won't post because they feel like they don't have anything constructive to say and will sound like a broken record, those who'll discover the diary down the road... there's just too many things to take into consideration in terms of a diary's audience, reaction and engagement, it'll drive you mad. Besides, it's not like you're a writer in the figurative WWE, being paid to produce content and earning your living out of it, so you're not expected to bring in viewers and ratings. It's more like art: you do it for yourself because you want (if not need) to and if people like it, that's cool, but it's not primarily for others that you do what you do.

[Makhai]

The whole site is dying a very slow death and has been for the past eight years. It is really starting to show now in the diary section and the Dog Pound. The Dog Pound used to be a driving force for this site but now only the WWE and AEW threads seem to get posts on a regular basis and really the Dog Pound is only kept alive by two or three posters and that is it. Which stinks because I remember when that whole entire section would have tons of replies in one day.

 

Because GDS decided that this was their "company forum" and that they were going to moderate discussion out of the whole place. Now the mods have a panic attack if anybody directly replies in the dog pound to absolutely......

 

Oh, I just got flagged again.

[SanX]

I was a long time lurker before signing up for the forums. Traffic has decreased, surely. Many of the older posters have grown out of the site or straight away migrated to other places. While it's normal to have people grow out of hobbies and new people join in, it's just that wrestling isn't growing much and relying on its existent fan base, which is shrinking every day. Now, when you consider wrestling is a niche hobby and TEW is an even more niche game, it's understandable that the user base is shrinking.

 

Also, I don't know what happened, but forums aren't accessible to outsiders now. I was searching WWE/ROH results and stumbled upon one of the diaries (Michgs or TheLloyd or TFC not sure) here, hence got introduced to the game. I thought this was one of those creepy role-playing forums, read a bit more, found that it was a game.

 

Now, forums aren't that easily accessible nowadays. Even searching specific thread titles won't show any links to thread or images. (which let me just say were working fine till 2018/19)Nowadays, the best we get is the forum homepage, and the site stopped letting people peeking in without having an account. Growth is muffled.

 

Second part is, messaging forums itself are dying. There is Reddit, there is discord which provide same services but better.

 

Other part about dynasties - write for yourself, but it's okay to stop if no one is reading, or you feel you are shouting in the void. On the other hand, if people like something, they will comment and tell you about it. Even if they don't, check monthly DOTM's, someone will have mentioned your name. People also need to like your content too. You said you feel someone's work is inferior to yours, but maybe people like his/her stuff, maybe they think he/she is better and worth their time. It's subjective.

 

At the end of the day, no matter how you phrase it, it's a hobby. You aren't getting paid, nor you will publish this anywhere and earn money by putting it on Patreon or somewhere. If you feel like stopping, stop. If you like it or having fun writing, keep at it!

[NewZealandfan]

Alot of them have switched to video format there are some really good saves going on in youtube land, DugersTimes NWA save for instance.

[DarK_RaideR]

Also, funny how shortly after this thread, the ThunderVerse launched and it seems to be spawning a new wave of TVerse diaries