release May 2001 Real World Data - Here Comes The Money

[SuperRamenmakerOkada]

I know it's weird to ask about one specific worker, but where is Sal E. Graziano? (The big dude manager for the FBI in ECW?)

[MrCanada]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:10 AM, SuperRamenmakerOkada said:

I know it's weird to ask about one specific worker, but where is Sal E. Graziano? (The big dude manager for the FBI in ECW?)

He was retired. I suppose I could add him. But he'd be retired and his stats would be useless.

I edited the second post to include a large list of wrestlers who people may "miss" due to their historically accurate names. I think I take for granted I'm a mid-30's wrestling nerd who knows who guys are or were, and I've seen a few games on youtube where people dont even realize Bryan Danielson is in the data because they dont think to look for American Dragon.

Speaking of people playing the data, feel free to let me know if you have a dynasty or youtube series or what not going. I enjoy seeing what people do, and its useful to see other people play for future balancing/additions. For example, I feel broadcasters need much more attention then I've given them after seeing a few games.

Some Shout Outs To Some Content I've Seen:
WCW: Reigniting The Fire By CactusZach (Dynasty)
AuspiciousAussie (YouTube)
Route 616 (YouTube)
The Bookerman (YouTube)

[RaptorMcFly]

You mentioned earlier in this thread a more "historical" version of the mod. Is this still a plan?

I'm gonna try out the FF data again now though. Excited

[awesomenessofme1]

On 7/21/2023 at 6:34 AM, MrCanada said:

Its an injury that can be worked through and is the injury that he had that (arguably) helped lead to his lackluster WWE run.

I haven't tested it in game, but I just thought I'd point out that, per the description given in the editor, any starting injury will stop them from being able to wrestle until it heals, regardless of the normal settings for that injury.

[SuperRamenmakerOkada]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:30 PM, MrCanada said:

He was retired. I suppose I could add him. But he'd be retired and his stats would be useless.

I edited the second post to include a large list of wrestlers who people may "miss" due to their historically accurate names. I think I take for granted I'm a mid-30's wrestling nerd who knows who guys are or were, and I've seen a few games on youtube where people dont even realize Bryan Danielson is in the data because they dont think to look for American Dragon.

Speaking of people playing the data, feel free to let me know if you have a dynasty or youtube series or what not going. I enjoy seeing what people do, and its useful to see other people play for future balancing/additions. For example, I feel broadcasters need much more attention then I've given them after seeing a few games.

Some Shout Outs To Some Content I've Seen:
WCW: Reigniting The Fire By CactusZach (Dynasty)
AuspiciousAussie (YouTube)
Route 616 (YouTube)
The Bookerman (YouTube)

Understandable

[SCGRadio]

Just want to say I've just made it to the one year mark on this mod and it's so much fun. Thanks a ton for all the hard work on this, because it's turned out great...a challenge, but a really fun one. Would be interested to know what choices people made with their games...

[kinqconnor]

I absolutely love this data so much. You can play it 100 times over and get different results everytime. I am absolutely horrific at modding. Will there be an update soon with bradocasters or would that be part of a bigger update at a later date? Thank you so much

[jhd1]

I've played a lot of "WCW Survives" mods over the years, because I find that when playing real world mods it helps to have a big point of divergence or I tend to stick to real life too much and then get bored. This is by far and away the best of these mods I've ever played; it's extremely fun to play, it's realistic and it's balanced. I admit I was slightly unsure at first on Shane running WCW but now I've started playing it works so well. I think a lot of that is the way you've built the roster (and the absences for the other WCW talent) that it makes sense for the timeframe, works with Shane's personality and still feels like WCW is a separate entity. Plus, you've also made the mod in a way that a player can easily pick Jerry Jarrett or Eric Bischoff (or whoever) as a user character and take over without it having any impact on the game (no pesky working relationships or a roster full of WWF loans for example) which is excellent. I also like that you can legitimately run WCW as, well, WCW. Often in the past these mods have relied upon you hiring people that have never worked for WCW because the original roster is so nerfed. My biggest debuts so far have been BG James and Road Warrior Animal, everyone else I've hired (not many to be fair) are at Unimportant and I'm still pulling solid shows.

I did drop the US starting pop of WCW slightly to lower their attendance; I dropped it to 55 in Mid Atlantic and South East and 45 everywhere else which was too big of a drop I think (particularly as I then had to cheat to get USA Network to pick up my 1hr show!), but I'm having too much fun to care. I'm one episode of Defiance (apparently one of the names considered for the WWF's WCW show) away from Bash at the Beach and have ideas all the way through to Starrcade and beyond.

Excellent stuff @MrCanada!

[jhd1]

I'm far too busy to do a diary at the minute but I'm enjoying this game too much not to share. I've just held Bash at the Beach 2001 which was a big success for me (although not actually my best ever show). I opted to hold both Big Bang and Great American Bash before I debuted Defiance (a 1 hour show on Saturday night on USA Network).

Big Bang (in Greensboro, where else!) was, as you would expect, intended to relaunch the company under Shane. There were two "major" debuts on the show, both in the same segment; Buff Bagwell made an open challenge which was answered by Road Warrior Animal. Bagwell won after interference from a masked man which turned out to be BG James. I reformed Team Canada with Lance Storm (who unsuccessfully challenged Booker for the World title), Mike Awesome and Elix Skipper (who teamed to lose to Chuck Palumbo & Sean O'Haire). Major Gunns is back as their valet although she now appears as Tylene. I've "borrowed" (ahem) MrCanada's idea of having DDP as an announcer being taunted by Kanyon; Kanyon is claiming that DDP is a stooge who'd do anything a McMahon told him to do. As is often the case with these games, Booker vacated the US title at the Big Bang too.

Great American Bash (in Las Vegas) saw a "tournament" to crown a new United States champion. In reality, it was two four-way contests and a singles match because I didn't want the whole show to be a tournament. Billy Kidman defeated Chavo, Disco Inferno and Reno to win his spot in the final, while Shawn Stasiak beat Sonny Siaki, Mark Jindrak and Johnny the Bull. Kidman won the final to become the new champion. Buff and BG James challenged Palumbo & O'Haire for the tag titles but it ended in a double count out after they brawled to the back. It is 2001 after all. Booker T retained his title again against Lance Storm, Mike Awesome and Road Warrior Animal who was put in the match after he came to the defence of Booker T earlier in the show. Kanyon continued mocking DDP but isn't getting a rise out of him yet.

Defiance debuted on Saturday Week 3 of June (I moved some of the PPV dates around). With it only being an hour long it's quite tight for time, but I'm getting decent ratings all the same. The first episode was the "big" one, which saw Billy Kidman retain the US title against Buff Bagwell after the referee saw BG James interfering and disqualified the heels. Shane Helms beat the returning Crowbar in a non-title match, only for Chavo to demand a shot at Bash at the Beach. Mike Sanders tried to convinced Shane McMahon to make him the WCW General Manager, and Team Canada (Storm & Awesome) beat Booker T and Animal in a cage match. The next couple of episodes continued to built on this, with Team Canada focusing on Animal and Booker, Kanyon taunting DDP and Buff Bagwell and BG James stating that they are building an army (meant to be a not so subtle hint they are forming a DX style stable). Mike Sanders managed to convince Shane McMahon to hire a GM, but it wasn't him...instead it was Vince Russo who debuted on episode 3. I'm not a Russo fan, but it felt like a real Shane McMahon 2001 WCW move so I went with it! That third episode took place in Houston, mainly because I wanted a Booker T vs Lance Storm match to be called the Last Chance Saloon and it made sense to be in Texas. If Lance Storm lost then he wouldn't get another shot at Booker while he was champion. Russo interfered in that match to cost Storm the match and keep the belt on Booker. Russo revealed he wasn't on Booker's side, however, and it was all so that he could put the belt on his own champion at the Bash at the Beach. Earlier in the show BG James and Buff Bagwell had been seen playing nice with Russo so it looked like it was going to be one of them. It wasn't; on the next episode the show opened with a limo pulling up (again, it's 2001) and Russo exited with James, Bagwell and...Curt Hennig. Hennig would be Booker's challenger for Bash at the Beach. Russo told Team Canada that his actions to cost Storm the title weren't personal and offered them a tag title shot at BatB instead. He also promised Storm the first title shot at Curt Hennig when he won the belt. Shawn Stasiak and Stacy Keibler have become an it couple who spend each week deriding someone on the roster (usually Paisley who is acting as backstage interviewer). Elix Skipper beat Hugh Morrus, Lash LeRoux and Mark Jindrak to become the #1 contender to Billy Kidman's US title, meaning at the Bash everyone from Team Canada had a title shot.

Here's Bash at the Beach:

WCW BASH AT THE BEACH 2001 | Sunday, Wk 2 July 2001

• Held in Miami, FL in front of 9,952 fans [PPV Buy Rating: 2.86] [Rating: 72]
• Announce Team: Scott Hudson, Arn Anderson & Diamond Dallas Page
• Officials: Nick Patrick, Billy Silverman and Charles Robinson
• QUICK RESULTS
• Vince Russo, Curt Hennig, BG James and Buff Bagwell arrive at the arena [57]
• Disco Inferno def. Psychosis, Kwee Wee and AJ Styles [52]
• BG James & Buff Bagwell def. Hugh Morrus & Lash LeRoux [51]
• Team Canada – Lance Storm, Mike Awesome, Elix Skipper and Tylene – are interviewed by Paisley. They say that they’ll be bringing the US and Tag titles back to Canada with them. [42]
• WCW Cruiserweight Championship Ladder Match: Shane Helms © def. Chavo Guerrero [61]
• WCW United States Championship: Billy Kidman © def. Elix Skipper [60]
• WCW’s “It Couple” Stacy Keibler and Shawn Stasiak are interviewed by Paisley [54]
• WCW World Tag Team Championship: Team Canada (Mike Awesome & Lance Storm) def. Chuck Palumbo & Sean O’Haire © [68]
• Booker T talks to Paisley about his match with Curt Hennig and promises he’ll not let Vince Russo screw him over [78]
• Kanyon def. Road Warrior Animal [71]
• Kanyon stands over Road Warrior Animal and continues his taunting of Diamond Dallas Page. [77]
• Paisley interviews Shane McMahon and asks about the situation with Vince Russo. McMahon says that he hired a General Manager to run the show and that he’s going to let him continue to do that. He’s seen nothing that requires him to change that approach but he will if he needs to. [76]
• WCW World Championship: Booker T (w/Road Warrior Animal) © def. Curt Hennig (w/Vince Russo) [72]

I'm super-excited for Crowd Control which I'm making into a sort of Uncensored/Extreme Rules type affair, although it's still relatively tame as I'm choosing to transition on-screen quite slowly from the WCW's real product to the Ruthless Aggression product that the promotion starts with in-game. I'm holding the event in New York this year, although next year I might hold it in Philadelphia and have some sort of ECW thing going on. Because I've got Vince Russo on the roster I'm taking some elements of early NWA:TNA as well into my game. Russo's stable with Hennig, James and Bagwell will probably end up being called Sports Entertainment Xtreme (it's a dreadful name but it's very fitting of the era). I've also hired James Mitchell, Crowbar and Slash so I'll be booking the Disciples of the New Church when Malice gets back from rehab. I'm also adding Reno into the group because he needs something to do and has the right look for them. They're just working dark show matches at the minute. I'm also going to very, very slowly build up AJ Styles, Chris Harris and James Storm. As I mentioned above, I really like the realism of this mod (I find it very jarring to see 99 rated CM Punk vs Bryan Danielson main events at Starrcade 2001!), so I'm trying to stick roughly to the timeframes they started to stand out in real life.

I'm going to switch up the announce team before Crowd Control as well; Scott Hudson is fine but Arn Anderson isn't the world's best colour commentator. I didn't want to replace him straight away and felt it more realistic to give him a few shows to "prove himself". I've hired Mike Tenay and Don West (again, due to the RL link with Russo) and they'll continue partnering with DDP until he gets back into the ring to beat Kanyon at Fall Brawl. Scott Hudson will have a Gene Okerlund style Control Centre segment I think, because it was always such a great idea that should carry on (and because USA Network wouldn't let me have a B-Show). I've actually risen to Medium following Bash at the Beach (I'd dropped the starting pop before the game) so I might be allowed a B-Show but I think I'll wait until after Crowd Control as it feels a bit more realistic given they've already turned me down once.

[hailthebulldog]

Welp, I was on the fence, but that co-sign is undeniable. I am checking this out for sure.

[MrCanada]

just a fyi, while this data is not dead, I recently had a major life event (new baby!) which will prevent me from really working on it for a good long while.

[smw88]

17 minutes ago, MrCanada said:

just a fyi, while this data is not dead, I recently had a major life event (new baby!) which will prevent me from really working on it for a good long while.

Congratulations 

[SCGRadio]

4 hours ago, MrCanada said:

just a fyi, while this data is not dead, I recently had a major life event (new baby!) which will prevent me from really working on it for a good long while.

Congratulations dude!

[Jaysin]

5 hours ago, MrCanada said:

just a fyi, while this data is not dead, I recently had a major life event (new baby!) which will prevent me from really working on it for a good long while.

Congrats bud!!! 

[Brenden Stewart]

is kronik in wcw because they aren't in the hctm may version

[SCGRadio]

They weren't part of the company when it was sold, they were signed afterwards (and then fired for being cack).

[Brenden Stewart]

12 minutes ago, SCGRadio said:

They weren't part of the company when it was sold, they were signed afterwards (and then fired for being cack).

are you sure because their last matches were in mid February but i think they both got injured

[SCGRadio]

6 hours ago, Brenden Stewart said:

are you sure because their last matches were in mid February but i think they both got injured

Positive, when the company was sold only 24 contracts were taken, and then the rest were negotiated separately (Booker, DDP, etc). Kronik weren't part of the original 24 or negotiated with until late Summer.

[StatboyVT]

I just wanted say thanks for this great database. It's everything you could want. You could play as intended as McMahon, or you could modify the database to have a different owner (Jerry Jarrett, maybe). Or you could even close WCW down and decide to start a company from scratch. Really open-ended.

Also, I've got a question for anybody familiar with WCW business. I just started reading the book "Nitro", and it opens by saying that someone offered to buy WCW in the spring of 1995, shortly before the company decided to go head-to-head with the WWF. Has there ever been any speculation as to who that potential buyer could have been?

[Von Dozier]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:19 PM, StatboyVT said:

I just wanted say thanks for this great database. It's everything you could want. You could play as intended as McMahon, or you could modify the database to have a different owner (Jerry Jarrett, maybe). Or you could even close WCW down and decide to start a company from scratch. Really open-ended.

 

Yep, I've personally transformed the database to make Bischoff the owner, had the Fusient Media deal gone through, and made the changes he stated in interviews he was going to do. Having a great time with it.

[Booker2021]

Interesting data, can be edited to tailor the needs of the end user ect. May I ask, I see these rounded stats in mods very frequently now. Whether it be pop or skills - all seem to be 0s or 5s.

Is there method in the madness? Is there something I am missing - care someone explain?

[Idolized]

59 minutes ago, Booker2021 said:

Interesting data, can be edited to tailor the needs of the end user ect. May I ask, I see these rounded stats in mods very frequently now. Whether it be pop or skills - all seem to be 0s or 5s.

Is there method in the madness? Is there something I am missing - care someone explain?

I mean, it’s easier to think of stats rounded. If you prefer the 1-2 point differences you can turn on variance and get it

[Booker2021]

Oh I never knew that was an option. Where does this come under? 

[Idolized]

4 hours ago, Booker2021 said:

Oh I never knew that was an option. Where does this come under? 

With the correct database selected:

Editor > Database Details (Button along the bottom of the screen)

You will see "Start Data Variance" and you can set it to None, Minor, Medium, Major and Extreme

[MrCanada]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:38 PM, Booker2021 said:

Interesting data, can be edited to tailor the needs of the end user ect. May I ask, I see these rounded stats in mods very frequently now. Whether it be pop or skills - all seem to be 0s or 5s.

Is there method in the madness? Is there something I am missing - care someone explain?

I do "rounded" stats for 2 reasons.

First, its easier/quicker. Whats Bill DeMott as a Brawler at this time? I dunno, a 60? 65? 70? Call it 65. He was good enough that it seemed like there was something there, but he never did put on classic matches, but maybe that is more how he was used... Is he a 62? Is that really different then 65? 67? Is that really different. 65 gives him the ability to fairly quickly become a proper upper-midcarder and put on quality but not world class matches. 60 would do that to. 70 likely makes him too good and able to more easily give 80-rated matches where him hanging around the 60's-to-70's (with the right opponents) seems about right.

Second, ratings are so subjective so it makes both balacing easier, and instead of saying "Yea! This guy was a 62 for sure, 100% I know best." I'm instead saying "He's somewhere around here I think. You can probably agree within 5-either way in most cases."  So again think of DeMott. Maybe you and others think he isnt a 65, he should be closer to a 70. Well, he basically is. Maybe you think he's worse and should be closer to 60. He basically is. Also, Now compare him to someone else. Sean O'Haire? Well at this time, O'Haire is green and learning, so he's worse, but he had sick moves and strikes. So if DeMott is a 65... 60? 55? Sounds about right. You can again argue 5-points either way, but its more of a "feeling" of a stat then an exact.

The main idea (and dont get me wrong, I'm likely wrong on many cases) is most workers, at a glance, are "yea thats about right" then only upon really digging in you can maybe go. "Actually, he probably should be different here or there"

And as Idol pointed out, I like to think because the "feel" is there, if you really want random numbers and to pine over "so and so is 61, and so and so is 63" as opposed to both likely just being 60, the game has that built in variance feature.

Edited September 27, 2023 by MrCanada