Abandonware Proposal

[Adam Ryland]

Good evening everyone,

A few people have contacted us recently to ask if we'd consider making a policy with regard to some mods being designated abandonware; that is, if a project appears to be dead and the maker is no longer active and so can't give permission, that other users can be allowed to take the data and work on it.

We've talked it over and put together the following draft for how a new policy would potentially work. You can use the attached poll to give your vote, and in a month or two we'll use the results to decide on how to proceed.

Proposal

A mod would be designated abandonware if it meets the "3-3" rule:

- It has been at least 3 years since the creator posted any updates on the project

- It has been at least 3 months since the creator was contacted by private message about the project's future and they haven't replied

- An internet search does not show that they're working on it elsewhere

Additionally, if a mod maker has explicitly said that they never want their project to become abandonware then it isn't, even if meets the criteria above.

If a project becomes designated as abandonware then other users can post (in the original thread) to say that they're planning to take over the project. If the creator doesn't reply within 7 days then that person is free to work on it going forward.

[Midnightnick]

The 3-3 Rule is good, but this section

Quote

If a project becomes designated as abandonware then other users can post (in the original thread) to say that they're planning to take over the project. If the creator doesn't reply within 7 days then that person is free to work on it going forward.

Should be 3 weeks. Keeps the rule of 3s to 3.

[alvarasus]

On 1/12/2024 at 7:42 AM, Midnightnick said:

The 3-3 Rule is good, but this section

Should be 3 weeks. Keeps the rule of 3s to 3.

I agree with this 3-3-3 rule. Not everyone comes on GDS forums. Some have left and will never comeback. Others are just to busy with real life to be on this forum. Giving them time to respond would be the proper thing too do. Especially if their busy with real life.

Edited January 14 by alvarasus

[clppy605]

I'm not a mod maker, so I don't think my opinion should have as much weight as those who do. I only wonder if it should be a retroactive rule. I realized that's the point and why people are asking about it now. But, I don't think a mod for TEW 2010 that hasn't had an update since 2011 should be made into abandonware since that wasn't a concern when that mod was being made. Maybe it only applies to mods made for WMMA 5, TEW 2020, Comic Book Universe, and any future titles?

[Paxlux]

Quote

Additionally, if a mod maker has explicitly said that they never want their project to become abandonware then it isn't, even if meets the criteria above.

Tbh I think this kinda makes the Abandonware proposal a little redundant. I think this should only be a rule if the modder is still working on their mod elsewhere, even if they're making the mod for a different fantasy booking game. So people like the TEW2016 modders who switched to different games can still protect their data if they want to.

In my opinion, someone shouldn't be able to say they never want their mod to become abandonware then disappear forever. Way too many people claim interesting time periods in wrestling then abandon the project without saying a word. If you're gone for 3+ years without saying a word, it'd be a bit ridiculous to come back and get mad that people continued working on your data. Personally I don't think it's very fair for a modder to advertise their mod on here, release an unfinished database, then abandon it after sparking interest in the mod while telling everyone they can't continue working on it. It's different if they're actively working on the mod on another game, but if they've left the community and abandoned their mod for years, it should be considered abandonware regardless of how they feel about it. Credit to the original creator should absolutely still be required if their mod becomes abandonware, but I don't think it's the right decision to give people a pass to hoard data they never plan to finish.

Additionally, I'd say move all mods considered abandonware into an abandonware subforum. Way too many abandoned mods clutter the modding subforum.

Edited January 15 by Paxlux

[Mammoth]

6 hours ago, clppy605 said:

I'm not a mod maker, so I don't think my opinion should have as much weight as those who do. I only wonder if it should be a retroactive rule. I realized that's the point and why people are asking about it now. But, I don't think a mod for TEW 2010 that hasn't had an update since 2011 should be made into abandonware since that wasn't a concern when that mod was being made. Maybe it only applies to mods made for WMMA 5, TEW 2020, Comic Book Universe, and any future titles?

To get a playable modification from TEW10 to TEW20 takes an unenviable amount of work. I mean it takes a ridiculous amount of work to make a TEW16 modification workable, so going that far back is nigh on awe inspiring. If someone has put that much work into it, at what point is it no longer the original database, as it were? As long as the person who has taken it over meets all that aforementioned criteria, I don't think anyone can or should be able to moan about it - regardless of whether or not "abandonware" was a thing at the time.

5 hours ago, Paxlux said:

In my opinion, someone shouldn't be able to say they never want their mod to become abandonware then disappear forever. Way too many people claim interesting time periods in wrestling then abandon the project without saying a word. If you're gone for 3+ years without saying a word, it'd be a bit ridiculous to come back and get mad that people continued working on your data. Personally I don't think it's very fair for a modder to advertise their mod on here, release an unfinished database, then abandon it after sparking interest in the mod while telling everyone they can't continue working on it. It's different if they're actively working on the mod on another game, but if they've left the community and abandoned their mod for years, it should be considered abandonware regardless of how they feel about it. Credit to the original creator should absolutely still be required if their mod becomes abandonware, but I don't think it's the right decision to give people a pass to hoard data they never plan to finish.

Making a modification for a certain time period doesn't give anyone the exclusive rights to that time period. If I wanted to, I could make a January, 1992 modification and pit it against Fleisch's 1992 Chronicles. Nobody can "claim" an interesting time period in wrestling, only the data they personally put together.

However, I do largely agree with you. Unless it's a fantasy modification and therefore can be considered an intellectual property, I don't think anything should warrant people claiming the data if they no longer plan on working on it or, more importantly, they're working on it for games outside of Total Extreme Wrestling. I know first hand what it takes to put modifications together but at the end of the day, all we're doing is putting together information we find on the internet about real people. It takes time and effort but we're not getting paid for it and we've actively chosen to do it ourselves. If people want to continue what we've built and share it with others, they should be able to do so as long as credit is given - and they've met the aforementioned criteria. People get so possessive and it just confuses the hell out of me as we're solely doing this for fun and to share in a similar passion. That's why my stuff is and always will be freeware and if one day I leave, I hope there is someone out there willing to take up my modifications.

[Questlove]

24 minutes ago, Mammoth said:

To get a playable modification from TEW10 to TEW20 takes an unenviable amount of work. I mean it takes a ridiculous amount of work to make a TEW16 modification workable, so going that far back is nigh on awe inspiring. If someone has put that much work into it, at what point is it no longer the original database, as it were? As long as the person who has taken it over meets all that aforementioned criteria, I don't think anyone can or should be able to moan about it - regardless of whether or not "abandonware" was a thing at the time.

Making a modification for a certain time period doesn't give anyone the exclusive rights to that time period. If I wanted to, I could make a January, 1992 modification and pit it against Fleisch's 1992 Chronicles. Nobody can "claim" an interesting time period in wrestling, only the data they personally put together.

However, I do largely agree with you. Unless it's a fantasy modification and therefore can be considered an intellectual property, I don't think anything should warrant people claiming the data if they no longer plan on working on it or, more importantly, they're working on it for games outside of Total Extreme Wrestling. I know first hand what it takes to put modifications together but at the end of the day, all we're doing is putting together information we find on the internet about real people. It takes time and effort but we're not getting paid for it and we've actively chosen to do it ourselves. If people want to continue what we've built and share it with others, they should be able to do so as long as credit is given - and they've met the aforementioned criteria. People get so possessive and it just confuses the hell out of me as we're solely doing this for fun and to share in a similar passion. That's why my stuff is and always will be freeware and if one day I leave, I hope there is someone out there willing to take up my modifications.

My personal view on it is the same as yours, but I also think our personal views on whether someone else should claim ownership of their work doesn't really matter. Like you said, it takes an ungodly amount of work to put all this stuff together and yes, it's all readily available information, but that doesn't exactly cut down the time it takes to do it. If someone who's done the work doesn't want others using their data I think they should be afforded that respect, otherwise we might as well just say it's fair game on everything because there's no functional difference at all.

[Mammoth]

3 minutes ago, Questlove said:

My personal view on it is the same as yours, but I also think our personal views on whether someone else should claim ownership of their work doesn't really matter. Like you said, it takes an ungodly amount of work to put all this stuff together and yes, it's all readily available information, but that doesn't exactly cut down the time it takes to do it. If someone who's done the work doesn't want others using their data I think they should be afforded that respect, otherwise we might as well just say it's fair game on everything because there's no functional difference at all.

Oh yes, sorry. I completely agree. If people have stated they don't want their modification to become abandonware, it should absolutely be respected. I was just expressing my personal views and my lack of understanding for why anyone wouldn't allow their modifications to live on beyond them. People's wishes should always be respected whether or not people like me agree with them or not. 👍

[TheWho87]

I would assume that if a project is considered abandonware and someone takes over the project, then the original creator should still be required to be credited for their contributions.

[Chikbot]

3 hours ago, TheWho87 said:

I would assume that if a project is considered abandonware and someone takes over the project, then the original creator should still be required to be credited for their contributions.

I agree with this.

Technically, if someone starts the work on it, they should still be credited.

I'm not a full on mod creator and have only helped in small aspects on some mods, however I want to give my input. I think this is a great idea.

As a fan of some thing like the 9000k verse. The fact someone has brought that back for 2020 after it being abandoned for a decade due to its original creator not wanting to really do this anymore/being too busy is a great thing and should be embraced.

I also think that if the mod creator announces publicly they are taking a break, that should omit the potential for said mod to reach "abandonware" status. There needs to be a clear indicator between "mod creator dropped off the face of the earth" and "mod creator is taking a mental health break and may be gone for like a month or two"

Edited January 15 by Chikbot

[TheWho87]

Could there be a way for mod makers to "tag" their mod threads, for those are open for their mod to be used with permission and those who don't, if it's tagged as open, as long as it's credited you don't need permission, if it's closed then it can't fall under abandonware, and no tag falls under the abandonware rules.

[lavelleuk]

As someone who has put a lot of time into a mod but also has a lot of health issues I much prefer the thought of someone taking the work and continuing it, or fixing errors, rather than it just getting forgotten if I should just disappear off the boards

[Fleisch]

Honestly I have no issue with people building off of my mods. I've no issue with them doing the same year as me either. I just don't like this "entitlement complex" some people have where they credit no one despite taking 80% of someone's work, 20% of someone else's and claiming it as their own despite minimal to no work going into it.

[Paxlux]

33 minutes ago, Fleisch said:

Honestly I have no issue with people building off of my mods. I've no issue with them doing the same year as me either. I just don't like this "entitlement complex" some people have where they credit no one despite taking 80% of someone's work, 20% of someone else's and claiming it as their own despite minimal to no work going into it.

Fully agree with you, it's just kinda scummy to take someone's work and not give them any credit at all. I wonder if it would be difficult to implement a co-author feature into TEW. If you import data from someone else's DB, anyone named as an author from that DB is automatically added as a co-author to the new DB and can't be removed. This would effectively force people who import data to credit the authors of their imported data.

[Big Roguey]

So with this, I think there has maybe been a little crossed wires. Any mods that get deemed as abandonware would still have to give a credit to the original mod maker and the forum is fairly good at policing itself anyway so if anyone was to try and pull a "this is mine and mine alone" act then it'd be pointed out and a conversation would be had.

[hammerglenn]

On 1/14/2024 at 11:00 PM, Paxlux said:

Tbh I think this kinda makes the Abandonware proposal a little redundant. I think this should only be a rule if the modder is still working on their mod elsewhere, even if they're making the mod for a different fantasy booking game. So people like the TEW2016 modders who switched to different games can still protect their data if they want to.

In my opinion, someone shouldn't be able to say they never want their mod to become abandonware then disappear forever. Way too many people claim interesting time periods in wrestling then abandon the project without saying a word. If you're gone for 3+ years without saying a word, it'd be a bit ridiculous to come back and get mad that people continued working on your data. Personally I don't think it's very fair for a modder to advertise their mod on here, release an unfinished database, then abandon it after sparking interest in the mod while telling everyone they can't continue working on it. It's different if they're actively working on the mod on another game, but if they've left the community and abandoned their mod for years, it should be considered abandonware regardless of how they feel about it. Credit to the original creator should absolutely still be required if their mod becomes abandonware, but I don't think it's the right decision to give people a pass to hoard data they never plan to finish.

Additionally, I'd say move all mods considered abandonware into an abandonware subforum. Way too many abandoned mods clutter the modding subforum.

Modders should be able to claim their work as abandonware and nobody can use that data unless they get permission, regardless if the modder is working on it right now or not. They probably will when they have time. No need to announce that they are.

As for the same year as the abandon mod that people want to use, they can make the same year but create your own by scratch or use a mod that's freeware. Simple as that and if you don't have permission of the abandonware, then don't use it.

[Paxlux]

2 hours ago, hammerglenn said:

Modders should be able to claim their work as abandonware and nobody can use that data unless they get permission, regardless if the modder is working on it right now or not. They probably will when they have time. No need to announce that they are.

As for the same year as the abandon mod that people want to use, they can make the same year but create your own by scratch or use a mod that's freeware. Simple as that and if you don't have permission of the abandonware, then don't use it.

Again, that defeats the purpose of considering something "abandonware." If you have no time to work on your mod at all in 3+ years, the mod's abandoned. There's no valid reason to hoard data you don't plan on finishing. If you can't take any time at all to provide an update in 3 years, there's no reason for you to get mad that someone else is using your data (provided that credit is given). It doesn't even have to be an update to the mod itself to prevent it from becoming abandonware, just a single text post showing that you're still around within 3 years. If you don't have time to do any work on a mod or even make a single text post within 3 years, the odds of you ever having time to work on it are slim to none. It's abandoned.

Posting a mod on this forum to spark interest in your mod, then disappearing for 3 years while telling people "you can never finish this mod" is unfair to the people you're advertising your mod to. If you want to slowly work on a mod and don't want anyone using the data while you disappear for 3 years, either remove the links or don't advertise the mod here in the first place.

In my opinion, giving someone 3 years (along with an additional 3 months to respond to PMs) before their mod becomes free to use is more than fair. Any active modmaker will be able to protect their mods however long they want. All it takes is responding to a single PM to prevent people from using it. People who disappear for over 3 years won't be around to care, so whether or not they want their mod to become abandonware is irrelevant.

Edited January 16 by Paxlux

[hellshock70]

On 1/16/2024 at 12:34 PM, Paxlux said:

Again, that defeats the purpose of considering something "abandonware." If you have no time to work on your mod at all in 3+ years, the mod's abandoned.

As a mod maker I would say no for the simple fact that losing your wife to cancer can take longer to recover from than 3 years.

[Lucas]

Just a heads up the 2001 mods and 'Mod Squad' mods are absolutely not abandonware. 

We never want our mods to be abandonware, but more than happy to work with people who have ideas to improve them and contribute in some way. 

One issue is being associated with potential future works without notification, attribution and collaboration is not something we can endorse. It's something I'm particularly mindful of given I've not worked on these mods under a pseudonym.

Likewise we don't think it is particularly fair on those that do work on mods honestly and with dedication, if other people's works are taken without permission and endorsement in some cases and rebranded, which just goes against the spirit of mod making. 

Best way to reach out to me and the team would be through Discord to discuss - though I will check in on my PMs here from time to time. 

Thanks.

[Big Roguey]

I've been trying to reword this all day, apologies if this seems blunt at points.

This proposal (important word, proposal. It's not set in stone yet) isn't to give any Tom, Jane or Harry carte blanche to take another creator's mod, slap their own name on it and go about their day. Instead it allows projects where it's abundantly clear the creator has moved on to be continued to carry on. Again, to point out, if someone has said they don't want someone else to pick up the baton if they drop away for whatever reason that'll be respected regardless of if it's said on here, on another forum, in sky writing or messages in a bottle etc. 

There have been some great mod ideas that either don't get finalised or were started in, say, TEW2007 and not carried over leading to scarcity of mods over time. This proposal just means that if there is a mod from wayback when that someone wants to pick up and run with then there is scope for that to be done. In cases like yours Lucas, the door shuts right away because you've all taken the step of going "These won't count under this proposal, please contact us if you're interested in collaborating".

You can believe it or not, we're trying to find a solution that allows the spirit of mod making to carry on whilst also being fair to people who choose to play TEW.

 

 

[Lucas]

On 1/18/2024 at 3:16 PM, Big Roguey said:

In cases like yours Lucas, the door shuts right away because you've all taken the step of going "These won't count under this proposal, please contact us if you're interested in collaborating".

So would you rather it was a blanket yes or no? I'm not really sure how that works and would be any good for the community. 

We have never shut the door right away to people, only when they've come to ask for permission after they've done their "work" on their version. That doesn't seem acceptable because we haven't worked with the author, in any way. We don't know them, don't know what work has gone into it, whether it is correct and works well.

On the contrary, any one who has asked for permission, gets feedback and/or assistance with their mods, we work with them. That's still the case today. Some I know well, get an immediate yes. Others get a no, because they release it and then ask for permission  

Going even further back before even I worked on mods, permission was sought from the original creators to carry on the work, or for other people to come in and contribute to things like Venues, Title Histories, etc. That just seems fair and showing courtesy and decency to others. That was generally the forum rules here, and I think that was more than fair to everyone. We all do this stuff for free.

So what this proposal is doing and fair play for letting people say whether or not they want their mods to be abandonware. I welcome that. Quite why though there needs to be a change to the rules, I'm not really sure. Why is there a suggestion of just declaring stuff abandonware?

There is generally a lot of work (a ridiculous amount actually, by hand) in upgrading mods from one version to the next due to the scope of changes a TEW version usually brings. In some cases it might actually make sense to just redo them from scratch a lot of the time.

When we did TEW16 mods, I actually developed tooling to facilitate new features' conversion in the game. We had thousands of workers with the (then new) based in regions, spread across at least half a dozen mods. Huge amount of work by hand. But we were apply to apply specific changes to multiple mods simultaneously. The problem we had in quality control of the mods, was without this, you had an email bomb when starting a new game with thousands of workers moving across the game. There were a lot of other parts of mod making this sort of work applied to Genadi's mods, Hive, Justin and more.

Another example of lots of work - Personality changes in TEW20. To get something like this right is a lot of time of understanding it, researching it and then applying it as well (see above). You'll likely find some stuff can't be accurately researched so it might actually make sense to remove people from the mod for the sake of playability. The previous implementation worked differently, so the conversion wasn't going to be understandably perfect with personality traits. So you might find as a mod maker, to get this right you need to make wide ranging changes that affect the scope of the mod. It can be overwhelming, but at least starting from scratch can make things easier to build up, rather than revising every record in the game.

So yeah sure, there's a reason I ask people to reach out. I'll help, if they are committed and dedicated to it and it can be finished to a good standard. I can't help or endorse someone's work if they come after the fact though, I won't just say yes or no, because it's not always that simple.

[Mammoth]

52 minutes ago, Lucas said:

So would you rather it was a blanket yes or no? I'm not really sure how that works and would be any good for the community. 

Roguey can speak for himself (and I'm sure he will) but I don't think he was suggesting that you'd "shut the door" on all permissions, I think he was speaking only in terms of the abandonware proposal. But if you ask me, a "blanket yes" would be better for the community... but that's by the by.

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

Going even further back before even I worked on mods, permission was sought from the original creators to carry on the work, or for other people to come in and contribute to things like Venues, Title Histories, etc. That just seems fair and showing courtesy and decency to others. That was generally the forum rules here, and I think that was more than fair to everyone. We all do this stuff for free.

As Roguey's post outlined, that is still the rule and will be forevermore.

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

Quite why though there needs to be a change to the rules, I'm not really sure. Why is there a suggestion of just declaring stuff abandonware?

As Adam outlined in his original post: "A few people have contacted us recently to ask if we'd consider making a policy with regard to some mods being designated abandonware; that is, if a project appears to be dead and the maker is no longer active and so can't give permission, that other users can be allowed to take the data and work on it."

It's not just "declaring stuff abandonware", it's giving people the opportunity to work on modifications they used to love but can no longer enjoy because the modification hasn't been updated, and the original creator of said modification is no longer around to give permission. As Adam outlined in the opening post, it's not just as simple as them not being on the GreyDog Software boards neither, as you must prove that you've also searched the rest of the internet and the various other boards to ensure they're not still working on said modification elsewhere. It's potentially giving people the opportunity to bring back modifications from the past that are otherwise dead to the sands of time, which can only be a good thing.

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

There is generally a lot of work (a ridiculous amount actually, by hand) in upgrading mods from one version to the next due to the scope of changes a TEW version usually brings. In some cases it might actually make sense to just redo them from scratch a lot of the time.

When we did TEW16 mods, I actually developed tooling to facilitate new features' conversion in the game. We had thousands of workers with the (then new) based in regions, spread across at least half a dozen mods. Huge amount of work by hand. But we were apply to apply specific changes to multiple mods simultaneously. The problem we had in quality control of the mods, was without this, you had an email bomb when starting a new game with thousands of workers moving across the game. There were a lot of other parts of mod making this sort of work applied to Genadi's mods, Hive, Justin and more.

Another example of lots of work - Personality changes in TEW20. To get something like this right is a lot of time of understanding it, researching it and then applying it as well (see above). You'll likely find some stuff can't be accurately researched so it might actually make sense to remove people from the mod for the sake of playability. The previous implementation worked differently, so the conversion wasn't going to be understandably perfect with personality traits. So you might find as a mod maker, to get this right you need to make wide ranging changes that affect the scope of the mod. It can be overwhelming, but at least starting from scratch can make things easier to build up, rather than revising every record in the game.

I agree wholeheartedly that it's a lot of work to upgrade modifications from one version to the next (I actually already referenced it in an earlier post in this very thread) but I'm not sure I accept your premise that starting from scratch would be easier. "Revising every record in the game" is a lot easier than 'creating every record in the game' because the chances are at least some of the information has already transferred correctly. For example, contracts to companies, move sets, relationships, base skills, gimmicks, venues, TV shows, events, titles, title histories, tag teams etcetera, etcetera would all be exactly the same through simple conversion. That's a hell of a lot of work that may not be perfect but is a hell of a lot easier to work with than starting from scratch. So what this proposal is suggesting is that it's no longer necessary to start from scratch as long as the modification that "person A" wants to reproduce meets all the criteria outlined in the proposal itself.

Plus, as I presume you're a member of the "Mod Squad", your 'scratch' may be completely different to someone who chooses to update an abandoned modification. For example, as part of the team, you can simply import a lot of what you need from one modification to another whereas someone starting from actual 'scratch' would need to gain permission from as many people as they could or use freeware just to import the basics to then rework it to their desired time period.

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

We don't know them, don't know what work has gone into it, whether it is correct and works well.

On the contrary, any one who has asked for permission, gets feedback and/or assistance with their mods, we work with them. That's still the case today.

Why though?

I'm not being snarky or anything, but I just don't get it. If someone takes an "abandoned" modification, does work on it to make it playable for a newer edition of TEW and releases it for others to enjoy... why does it matter if it's "correct" and "works well" if people are enjoying it? In your case, they'd be stupid to claim it was a release from the "Mod Squad" if it wasn't because they'd soon be found out, so it's not like it would sully your guys reputation or anything. Similarly, if all they've done is run it through the conversion process and release it without any editing, people would soon pull them up on that - as has always been the case when people have attempted it in the past. If you're no longer working on it and nor updating for newer versions of TEW and you're actively working on the same modification for an entirely different game, why not just allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to take on the responsibility as long as credit is rightfully given? I'd personally see it as a compliment if someone was so connected to what I had done that they wanted to continue what I had started. Why let all that time and hard work potentially go to waste on the off-chance someone goes through, from what I understand, the tough task of getting a hold of a member of the "Mod Squad" to ask permission? Why make it that complicated instead of just giving permission to anybody who is willing? The board, as it has always done, will soon separate the modifications that have actually been updated to a good standard and those that haven't.

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, Mammoth said:

Why though?

I'm not being snarky or anything, but I just don't get it. If someone takes an "abandoned" modification, does work on it to make it playable for a newer edition of TEW and releases it for others to enjoy... why does it matter if it's "correct" and "works well" if people are enjoying it? 

2 hours ago, Mammoth said:

why not just allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to take on the responsibility as long as credit is rightfully given?

If it's good and people enjoy it, it doesn't matter to me so much. I just appreciate a certain level of courtesy and respect.

There's a lot of mitigating factors into why you might put your name to something, or just your OK without attribution, whatever the case may be. If other mod makers have other wishes for their works, that's their right and I support that too.

For me and my work, to keep it simple I'd just like to be asked and reserve the right to withhold consent or whether work is abandonware/freeware/fair use or whatever. That's it.

Just like how the CV is fair usage but Adam wants a heads up if it's used elsewhere; my wish is that if I don't declare my work abandonware, it isn't. In terms of rights to reuse, redistribute etc, there's only one condition and that's to ask before you start. I just think that it's simpler to engage in a quick conversation / heads up than being needlessly restrictive and complicated about it. 

Edited January 19 by Lucas

[Big Roguey]

Lucas, I think the large point of your post has already been discussed and agreed to. You're saying you don't want people to take your work and use it in any sense without permission (And given that the criteria for this is no posts/updates on a mod for three years, I'm not actually sure if any of your current works would be in for consideration here?) so I'm a little confused by the circle we seem to be going in as both the original post by Adam and follow up posts by myself have said that would be fine. I'll say it again and apologies if this seems snarky but I just wanted to make sure this part was clear;

Any mod creator who doesn't want their work to fall under this proposal is well within their rights to do so. We're not stripping this aspect of mod making away from people at all.

Mammoth has more or less worded the rest of my thoughts better than I can in regards to the other points raised.

[ColossusPT]

42 minutes ago, Lucas said:

If it's good and people enjoy it, it doesn't matter to me so much. I just appreciate a certain level of courtesy and respect.

There's a lot of mitigating factors into why you might put your name to something, or just your OK without attribution, whatever the case may be. If other mod makers have other wishes for their works, that's their right and I support that too.

For me and my work, to keep it simple I'd just like to be asked and reserve the right to withhold consent or whether work is abandonware/freeware/fair use or whatever. That's it.

Just like how the CV is fair usage but Adam wants a heads up if it's used elsewhere; my wish is that if I don't declare my work abandonware, it isn't. In terms of rights to reuse, redistribute etc, there's only one condition and that's to ask before you start. I just think that it's simpler to engage in a quick conversation / heads up than being needlessly restrictive and complicated about it. 

There is a huge difference there though. The C-Verse is, for all intents and purposes, Adam's IP. It was created by him, it contains his original work. The incredibly valuable work done by modders is not your original work. You are, for all the work that you do, collecting existing data and putting it in the game