Nevermore Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 [QUOTE=Undertaker666;182146]Yep, better than Lance Storm's.[/QUOTE] Being such a huge ECW mark, I may never forgive myself but I reckon Taker's right. Storm was obviously a far better worker than Holly but the latter's dropkicks are a thing of beauty surpassing even Lance Storm's attempts (apart from, maybe, the one where he reversed the Van Daminator at Barely Legal '97 - that was pure ecstasy in a wrestling move :D). Quote The Raven Nevermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 [QUOTE=Undertaker666;182146]I'm not saying that he's been screwed out of becoming the next Rock or Stone Cold by bad booking etc, but I do think that people don't give him the credit that he's due. In TEW terms, "he's a solid upper midcarder who should be used as a stepping stone to give other people victories they need to put themselves in the main event scene".[/QUOTE] Touche, 'Taker! :) And just for those who may not know, I wasn't having a go at panix for his preference (as I'm sure he knows). We all have types of workers we enjoy watching more than others. Mine is women workers, panix likes the workman types, some prefer cruiserweights, others like luchadors or technicians or what-have-you. Heck, believe it or not, there are folks who love the powerhouses with limited ability (ala Batista, Lashley, etc) more than any other kind of worker. I'll also acknowledge that, upon thinking about it, Bob Holly could go a long way toward helping the 'E win back the "old school" fans since he fits that time period and wrestling style better than anyone else on ECW's roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 yeah Remi, i knew you weren't having a pop (actually i wasn't sure, but i assumed it was a friendly volley anyway!) With the exceptions of Mick Foley i wouldn't say i neccasarily 'enjoy' watching 'workmen' in the ring, i just respect them, i guess i can relate to them. Im not the best footballer in the world, so when i play for my team i try to make up for it with effort. People respect me for it, but its not always pretty to watch! My fave wrestlers knocking round at the moment are: Mick Foley Johnny Nitro CM Punk Samoa Joe AJ Styles Raven Kane Mr Kennedy So if you can lump all of those into one boat, thats the type of worker i like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 [QUOTE=panix04;182253]My fave wrestlers knocking round at the moment are: Mick Foley Johnny Nitro CM Punk Samoa Joe AJ Styles [B][I][U]Raven[/U][/I][/B] Kane Mr Kennedy [/QUOTE] Man after my own heart :D. Quote The Raven Nevermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hmm... I don't know. I was liking the winning streak of CM Punk alot. I have to aggree with Panix on the 'ol Holly though, he has had incredible match's since moving to ECW. I think he is alot more then a jobber for sure, especially after that match with RVD, when he was cut and needed stitch's, yet fought on for.... I don't know, another 20 minutes or so? To me Bob Holly > Test in performance, since they moved on ECW. To me Test > Test was before going to ECW. To me, well, I think CM Punk could believably lose to several people on the ECW roster. He hasn't been put that over yet. A few match's with Matt Stryker? I liked his winning streak though, was hoping it would last a little longer. I think if he would have won against Holly, he would have to be Main Event Material, because in my opinion... even though the rest of this thread sways differently. Bob Holly is Uppermidcard to Main Eventer himself, on ECW. I would rather Holly be that man that beat him then probably anyone else on the roster, outside of Lashley. Lashley can wrestle, he's more of a Technician, but for some reason they don't let him operate that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashbear Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=panix04;182253]yeah Remi, i knew you weren't having a pop (actually i wasn't sure, but i assumed it was a friendly volley anyway!) With the exceptions of Mick Foley i wouldn't say i neccasarily 'enjoy' watching 'workmen' in the ring, i just respect them, i guess i can relate to them. Im not the best footballer in the world, so when i play for my team i try to make up for it with effort. People respect me for it, but its not always pretty to watch! My fave wrestlers knocking round at the moment are: Mick Foley Johnny Nitro CM Punk Samoa Joe AJ Styles Raven Kane Mr Kennedy So if you can lump all of those into one boat, thats the type of worker i like![/QUOTE] That's a little bit of a motley crue, isn't it? Heh. All of those guys are very entertaining, I suppose that's the common denominator. You have some good workers, some great stick men, and some great ring psychologists. I guess lump all of them into the "good" category. And what is it about Johnny Nitro, everyone seems to love this guy lately (myself included)? With a little more practice on the mic he could be a total package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=Trashbear;182339]That's a little bit of a motley crue, isn't it? Heh. All of those guys are very entertaining, I suppose that's the common denominator. You have some good workers, some great stick men, and some great ring psychologists. I guess lump all of them into the "good" category. And what is it about Johnny Nitro, everyone seems to love this guy lately (myself included)? With a little more practice on the mic he could be a total package.[/QUOTE] I guess i'm well, different. I can't stand Nitro. I like his partner (the one that got hurt) alot better for some reason. I don't think I would like him no matter what his gimmick, heel or face, etc... I can't stand Chris Master's either... First time I ever seen him, he was a face, and couldn't stand him then either. One person I have always liked is Triple H. I was hoping he got the title when him and Cena had a little feud. I like Carlito too.. People everyone else seems not to like....... I just don't know what's wrong with me, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamelessposer Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=Dubya;181870]Seriously, have you guys ever heard of a fued?[/QUOTE] No, but I have heard of a feud. As far as I'm concerned, Holly has always just sort of been "there." When it comes to dropkicks, I think London and Kendrick look an awful lot better, but overall Holly is just one of those slightly boring, presentable workers you go to when you need a nice, stiff match that doesn't mean anything in the long run. And I really like the love for Test that I'm seeing in this thread. The guy could be the next Kane if he'd get the right push. EDIT: I personally think that Nitro just has "it." His look is good, his manager is one of the hottest in the business, he's been in nothing but presentable matches every time I've seen him on TV, and he's a fairly big guy who can do little guy moves. Combine all that with that intangible "it," and he could be his generation's Shawn Michaels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Personally, I'm sort of glad CM Punk took a loss here. I didn't see the match myself, I was watching Law & Order: SVU at the time, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a complete burial of Punk. I don't really care for undefeated streaks in wrestling, haven't since the Goldberg administration, because they usually have two key things working against them: one, the wrestler spends much of his time beating lower level workers in matches without much meaning to build up the streak, and two, if the undefeated streak gets big and bad enough, it can become so much a part of the character, that when he finally takes a loss, Creative has a hard time figuring out what to do with him next. In that light, maybe it's good for Punk to go ahead and get that first loss out of the way so that he can start having more interesting, more meaningful matches with Hardcore Holly and with whomever else in ECW. Seems like I read somewhere though that Punk was possibly going to be wrestling Lashley for the ECW title at WrestleMania, so hopefully this one loss won't be that big of a deal. Just a few random thoughts I had. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubernoobDXA Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Lashley isn't packaged as a "technician" he is packaged to us as the best athlete in the world. That, in my opinion, is why we are stuck seeing him just spear people. He needs a heel turn, and a manager that can work a mic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamebrain Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=dvdWarrior;182403]Personally, I'm sort of glad CM Punk took a loss here. I didn't see the match myself, I was watching Law & Order: SVU at the time[/QUOTE] I misread that as SUV and pictured some sort of A-Team/L&A hybrid, man I would so watch that! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godsmacker Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=shamelessposer;182362]EDIT: I personally think that Nitro just has "it." His look is good, [B]his manager is one of the hottest in the business[/B], he's been in nothing but presentable matches every time I've seen him on TV, and he's a fairly big guy who can do little guy moves. Combine all that with that intangible "it," and he could be his generation's Shawn Michaels.[/QUOTE] While I will agree that Johnny Nitro has the potential to one day be in the main event running, I have to disagree with one thing. Melina? Hot? I'm sorry, but when she shows cleavege, and you see a big blue vein running from her nipple on up, then I find that to be gross and disturbing. A good example of why you don't get breast enlargements from A-cups to DDs, with no in-between surgerys. That, and since she got that tan, she looks like she's made of plastic, and I don't mean that in the silicone sense, I mean her face, arms, everything looks like it's shiny and hard. If you've never noticed the vein, by the way, look for it. It is very disturbing. Personally? I wish they would've kept Federline on the roster as a manager for Nitro, because he at least also has some natural charisma, and he's got the hatred people need to feel for a manager to make them effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poilbrun Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;182323]I have to aggree with Panix on the 'ol Holly though, he has had incredible match's since moving to ECW. I think he is alot more then a jobber for sure, especially after that match with RVD, when he was cut and needed stitch's, yet fought on for.... I don't know, another 20 minutes or so?[/QUOTE] I never understood why they did not play more on the heat Holly got following that match. Seeing the reaction from the crowd during that match and at his next match where he seemed to be hailed as the new ECW hero, you think they might have done better than have him betray RVD so quickly. Hell, that could have been the chance he needed to move to main eventer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamebrain Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=poilbrun;182548]I never understood why they did not play more on the heat Holly got following that match. Seeing the reaction from the crowd during that match and at his next match where he seemed to be hailed as the new ECW hero, you think they might have done better than have him betray RVD so quickly. Hell, that could have been the chance he needed to move to main eventer![/QUOTE] Panic really. These days when someone gets over by accident rather than design they are no longer willing to take the risk and just go with it. They obviously had plans that didn't involve Holly being over as a face and so they ignored the crowd and pressed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imarevenant Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=flamebrain;182554]Panic really. These days when someone gets over by accident rather than design they are no longer willing to take the risk and just go with it. They obviously had plans that didn't involve Holly being over as a face and so they ignored the crowd and pressed on.[/QUOTE] Well that and they really couldn't afford for him to be a face, really. Without the Big Show, their two most over heels are Test and Holly. Get rid of one and the other has to shoulder the whole load, or you have to push Khali even more. Given those choices I'm glad they kept Holly a heel, to be honest (although I know the Khali push is coming :o ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlawson Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Personally, the Bobby Lashley thing about him not having talent enough to carry the brand....how long was Mike Awesome the champ?? I think Lashley has more charisma and talent then that guy IMHO. I would love to see Benoit get some more matches at ECW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashbear Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=jonlawson;182653]Personally, the Bobby Lashley thing about him not having talent enough to carry the brand....how long was Mike Awesome the champ?? I think Lashley has more charisma and talent then that guy IMHO. I would love to see Benoit get some more matches at ECW.[/QUOTE] I dunno, I always thought Mike Awesome was the best big man I ever saw, at least from a workrate standpoint. He wasn't a good talker or anything, but he did stuff that I think Lashley can only dream about. I mean, Awesome would do springboards and would actually stop and balance on the top rope, and he's about 300 lbs. Lashley can move pretty good in the ring too, but I really think Awesome was a rarity. Most 300 pounders in wrestling barely even leave their feet, never mind do topes or helos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaz Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 6'3", 350lbs+ of Bam Bam Bigelow doing cartwheels and moonsaults. Dont think theres been anyone quite like that ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=jonlawson;182653]Personally, the Bobby Lashley thing about him not having talent enough to carry the brand....how long was Mike Awesome the champ?? I think Lashley has more charisma and talent then that guy IMHO. I would love to see Benoit get some more matches at ECW.[/QUOTE] jon, do you really think Mike Awesome as champion of the old ECW compares to the ECW of today? I loved Mike Awesome for all the reasons Trashbear gave. The man was a very unique worker to be that big. BUT, there is a HUGE difference between carrying a small barely breathing promotion and carrying a global sized entertainment brand, even if the acronym is the same. When I said Bobby Lashley isn't up to carrying ECW, I didn't mean talent wise. But his character and potential haven't yet developed sufficiently to do that yet. What do you think would've happened if the WWF would've asked 'Rocky Maivia' or 'Flex Kavana' to carry the company? Would that have been as successful as it was when he developed into 'The Rock'? Besides that, he really doesn't have the kind of support system in place to handle that. John Cena has Triple H and HBK, Batista has 'Taker (and maybe Booker if you're into him) and Benoit. Lashley has, who, RVD? Someone to take the pressure off so he doesn't have to be the center of attention 24/7. The Rock had Austin (and vice versa) as well as 'Taker and Trips and HBK (for a bit). My point is, he's young and relatively new to WWE viewers/fans. He needs time to "find himself" and figure out where he stands and the best approach to take as a worker and a champion. He's abysmal on the mic so that's a big minus that he has to find a way to overcome (well, him and creative). Wouldn't it be cool to see him come up with a finisher of his own (instead of using the tired old spear that EDGE uses)? Remember when Batista's finisher was the spinebuster? He moved to the sit-out powerbomb which is an example of worker or character growth (at least in my view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=The Gaz;182701]6'3", 350lbs+ of Bam Bam Bigelow doing cartwheels and moonsaults. Dont think theres been anyone quite like that ;) .[/QUOTE] Another guy who peaked in ECW *sighs*... Quote The Raven Nevermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashbear Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 [QUOTE=Nevermore;182754]Another guy who peaked in ECW *sighs*... Quote The Raven Nevermore[/QUOTE] Sad but true, at least in America (well, from a workrate standpoint. He made big bucks in the 80s with the WWF/E). He did pretty well for himself in Japan, I think he held the IWGP Tag Belts with Vader, or maybe it was Scott Norton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubya Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 It was Vader and Bigelow. I always thought he was grossly underused during his WWF run; hell, he was WWF champion for 6+ months in my 1993 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashbear Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 [QUOTE=Dubya;182919]It was Vader and Bigelow. I always thought he was grossly underused during his WWF run[/QUOTE] I think just about everyone who saw him work or actually worked with him has said the same thing. Well, everyone except the Clique I guess. It's too bad when guys that deserve it don't get their shot, he was a good heel that knew how to make a babyface look great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 i hate to backtrack slightly but i actually saw the CM Punk Vs Bob Holly match last night and it was a solid match but it did seem odd Holly getting a clean win over Punk, a cheap win would have been more appropriate. I have also been thinking about it and there are not many people in ECW right now who i would put over Punk and the one's who i would RVD, Sabu perhaps are face's so i think a CM Punk heel turn is in order. I dodn't see much of him in ROH but i have heard his heel promo's are pretty good. As a heel he could legitimatly be a huge star in ECW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Very true. I say, turn him heel and feud him with Van Dam. It has to be Punk who goes heel because RVD is just too damn charismatic to be one. They tried turning him in ECW and the crowd still chanted his initials at every show. Quote The Raven Nevermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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