shawn michaels
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Posts posted by shawn michaels
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I'm not gonna quote, or i'd have a lot of responses to do. Cena and Orton are not on the same ship. Orton is actually talented, while Cena is a product of people's stupidity. Yes, the majority of pop culture is built upon ignorance. Regardless of it, Cena and Orton are not irreplaceable! No one is! They don't need to keep guys like CM Punk down the drain just because they need worker A or B to stay on top. It's ridiculous to assume that. Vince doesn't need that, the E doesn't need that! It happens because Vince wants to! He could EASILY find more talented guys to replace Cena! Those guys would be better or at least at the same level than Cena. I can agree that not everyone would be successful on getting at that level, but a lot of people would pull it off. And i mean a lot, not just one or two! So please don't you guys tell me that CENA has to be there, or Orton has to be there, or even Punk has to be there! No one has to necessarily be there because no one is untouchable. The wwe existed before Cena and will keep existing after him.
As for Cena beeing good...he's not! The only thing he's good at (besides some decent mic skills, i'll give him that much.) is not screwing up pushes. He got over because people were crazy about rappers and rap culture back on the day he got his push. He got over because Vince likes to push big untalented guys. After that kind of push, the only thing he really had to do was not screwing it up a la Kofi Kingston (for example) and it's easy for him to keep selling. How wouldn't he sell??? He keeps beeing shuved down the kids and the marks throats! If i was a kid or a pure mark, i'd love the guy. Occasional fans, or regular mark fans will eat nearly everything thrown at them. So...no...Cena is not a merchandise phenom. He's a not a phenom...period.
As for CM Punk....what would you guys consider a proper treatment to him?? 13 world championships?? Please, i like him, and i'd love to see him have half of the pushes Cena had in the last half a dozen years, but he hasn't been treated unfairly! He's a 3 time WHC, a two time money in the bank winner and all the other things that someone pointed out a few posts ago...and he's acheived more than i expected he would when he started beeing jobbed to holly. I never even thought he'd make it to WHC. So...i'd love to see him achieving more...but he hasn't been treated as a bastard, as some seem to think.
Ps: When i say i like Punk, i mean he's my favourite WWE wrestler now that HBK is retired and his successor (Edge) followed the same way.
Edit: I'm not saying that Cena lovers are stupid, nor am i trying to insult anyone. I was just criticizing the cheap pop culture itself.
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This is such a difficult storyline to predict. It really does make good tv though, because for once we have a story which feels like the real deal. Similar to the start of the ECW brand (with the Styles and Heyman promo's and such), the Hardy/Edge/Lita thing, and the first Nexus attack. I have doubts as far as the storyline playing out the way a lot of people are predicting. I would love to see this go on to be something big, but I just can't see it after some of the comments Punk made. M.Hardy did it, Heyman did it, Styles did it, and look where they are at now.
I really think Punk is just done with WWE though, and he is just there to fulfil his obligation to the fans and give them one last good storyline.
But if Scotty Goldman and Chris Hero do lead an RoH invasion at MITB, then game on. But I think all we'll get is some Cena punches, an FU, and Cena is the saviour of WWE for the 126341824th time.
I'm going with short-term storyline that starts off hot but leads to nothing, see:
The Invasion.
Hardy/Edge/Lita
ECW revival.
Nexus
The Punk-WWE storyline.
Also, another good World Champion who wasn't treated as top star:
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Styles, really? Poor man, still working for the E in a confortable backstage position with a nice paycheck. I feel so sorry for him.
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My wife said he sounded just like HBK when he did that. Your not alone, lol.
@Stennick: It's all a "Wouldn't it be cool" thing, nothing more. I don't think for a minute that anything I said would happen, it's all just a fantasy.
And I agree that no matter if Cena fans showed up or not, Cena would be boo'd over top of any cheers he got. Has nothing to do with the whole over-all fantasy booking though. Fact, it would probably fit the storyline very well.... WWE title goes to ROH, Punk becomes ROH hero, Cena is the enemy coming in trying to win a spot to get it back. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN: It's just a fun thought, at least to me.
The only way any of that would happen, is on WWE programming anyways, which means Cena would be in his element, and ROH wouldn't... IF anything even remotely similar happened in the real world, that's the only way I see it going... Kind of like ECW worker's showing up on WWF programming, not the other way around. I don't see it going on in the first place, but any remote possibility would have it on WWE not ROH.
I just like the thought of it going the other way, just for fun.
EDIT: And yes, every summer they come up with something to get everyone buzzing about it, to help their ratings. Summer is traditionally a slump in ratings, so they seem to do something yearly right around this time to get viewer interest.
Indeed he did sound like HBK. I really lmao when he did that.
Edit response: They usually make something up for the summer, i was thinking about that too, as obviously this is the 2011's summer creation. Wich probably means that Punk has already signed (or agreed to sign) an extension, but, just like it happened in the shoot, Vince is probably the only one knowing it. I just don't see Vinnie Mac dropping the ball on a chance to make money and controversy. So allowing Punk to shoot that way and not coming to an agreement would be counter productive. Vince may be a lot of things, but he's not an idiot in what comes to business. Allowing a guy to insult him in his own show, as well as insulting his personally created icons, and then letting him leave would be pretty morronic!
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Fun fact the Nexus was first created on June 1st 2010. So just one year ago this month eight guys jumped the railing on RAW and destroyed the set envoking people to have dreams of an nWo type of revolution. I'm sure if I went back a year there was all sorts of fun fantasy booking in here. In reality its been a year and Wade Barrett is the most successful member and he's currently buried deep on Smackdown long forgotten about as the main player he was presented as last year.
I can't tell if people really believe there will be something that happens with ROH or they're just saying "wouldn't it be cool in a fantasy world if" but if people really expect the WWE not to screw this up please don't get your hopes up. Every big angle they have had for ten years starting with the Invasion has imploded for them and this promo from Punk will wind up being the peak of this entire angle.
So yeah I agree with you.
Just a few ideas i'd like to add to this. I do agree with you Stennick (i generally do) but let's think this trough. WWE has screwed their big angles in the last ten years, that's right, and that's on Vince and his dufus son in law, idiotic daughter and the rest of Vince's yes men. I agree! But we've been 'begging' for a Steve Austin/The Rock type of superstar for years. You know...the type of guy that is actually capable of having a 3:16 moment. That may just have happened. And if it did, maybe not even Vince can screw this up.
Sure...i'm entering that dream world where the impossible happens...but hey...maybe i'm right. And i'm pretty sure that not even the Nexus debut or Matt Hardy's worked shoot were as big as this, contrary to what some of you guys said. So...the point in all of this beeing, maybe...just maybe, the WWE can't screw this up...no matter how much they 'try'.
Ups...i just woke up!
On a side note: Punk impersonating Shawn Michaels for a few seconds on that HBK/Nexus promo was hilarious. I enjoyed that promo and that brief impersonation. Was i the only one?
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You could justify that into the notion that the ref himself doesn't feel like messing around if someone is walking away from the ring. The further you are from the ring, the faster he's gonna count. Well.. if you're intentionally away.
We don't really need to justify everything...that's why we're suposed to suspend disbelief.
Edit: Punk's promo just got the WWE in the map again...never mind the normal ways of measuring a promo´s quality! The context, the content and his mic quality, as well as the 4th wall breaking make the difference. And no matter what the ROH fanatics think, this will be regarded as his best ever. (Unless one day he tops it) As it is. In TEW terms it's an A*. Because a lot more people care about it due to the world wide exposure. SOmething it would not happen in ROH. Maybe John Doe from promotion fake 1 made a better promo on the same day...who cares? This one was better because it had the whole wrestling community caring about it. And hell, it was very good stuff in all levels! That intensity...very good! That promo was A* in all possible ways.
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This. The neat thing about the Attitude era was that you still had your "characters" but also mixed in some real "badass/no gimmick needed" type of characters as well.
Now, it's swung completely over to the other end where everyone is just wrestling under their name (or their stage name etc.). It was a lot easier to keep track of wrestlers as a casual fan then it is now. Now everything is so...bland. You can have characters that fit into modern market, take Kane and Undertaker. Sure their gimmicks might be "dated" (i.e. Deadman, Demon etc.) but at least you could tell them apart and knew what they stood for
Would the old taker with the special lights and all that supernatural parafernalia be a crazy character tou you guys? If so, i rather see the blandness of nowadays, At least it's realistic. I like realistic wrestling, without soul seeking supernatural creatures, like the old taker. I mean, don't get me wrong, i like Taker and his dead man gimmick...but we have to draw the line somewhere.
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Right..just like the 'SAVE_US" stuff..the specualation will play into the hype.
That's exactly what they want, speculation. Mistery sells.
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I think Barrett beating Taker at his final Wrestlemania (if it's his last) would be great. He could then begin a streak of his own over the next few years. He could go on to say he is the only man to ever beat the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. No matter who he is feuding with that could be his claim to fame. While someone like Cena may call Barrett out on that being the only thing he ever did. Eventually Barrett would have more on his WWE resume but it would be a good start.
I did read somewhere (wrestlingexposed if i recall correctly) that the whole point of booking Taker vs Barrett in the WM (assuming it would happen) would be to give Taker an easy way to keep the streak alive and to make it easy on him on a phisicall level. People wouldn't expect him to go to on of those super intense phisical matches as he had with Shawn, in the previous years. So it would be an easy and phisically non demanding way to keep the streek alive.
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Yeah that's patently ridiculous. He was main eventing pay per views and you don't think he was a main eventer? Big Show is a main eventer and when was the last time he main evented PPV?
I really don't see Big Show as main eventer these ays. He's more like a semi active wrestler. loool
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IMO even when he was World Champion he wasn't treated as a main eventer
I'm back! looool
I think you're right. I always got the feeling that punk was always an upper mid during his title reigns...that's a shame. hope we'll see him as a true main eventer soon.
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I blame the brand split on the fall of the IC title. Back before it, I LOVED to watch the ongoing battles for it between the likes of guys like Ken Shamrock, Goldust, Val Venis, ect...
But with the talent spread out, less talented and popular guys, including folks who in the olden days would've been involved in the European title picture, are competiting for it. I like the WWE's current apparent direction towards the removal of the brand split. It was a neat idea at first, but after several years I miss the tried and true format. The only huge upside the brand split has given is allowing some of the guys lower on the card more opportunity to showcase their talents. But, double edged sword and all, it's all allowed a lot of guys to have time on the main shows when they'd be better off improving themselves on a B show.
And of course there's the whole "why isolate your talent away from each other?" arguement, but I've got homework to do and I'm not in the mood to keep ranting about how the brand split is evil and kills kittens and touches me in no no places.
Well, i wouldn't blame it all on the brand split,but it did became obsolete after a couple of years. Back then they had bought WCW recently, were fully loaded of talent and it made sense. Now...times changed...as we all know. But i still remember some good IC runs after the brand split. To me, the last great IC run was Orton's. Damn, i think that belt was almost a world championship on his waist back then,as he performed his "hate me, i am the despicable evil dude" routine perfectly. Ah yes...good times.... At least better times than now.
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Watched the two Danielson/Ziggler matches. I preferred the one on the PPV, but both fun times. I wouldn't say they had great chemistry, but they clearly looked like two stellar performers, giving their all, and having time to do something meaningful. If Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk is on the cards, I'll be sure to check it out.
Also, it's impossible to be 'too green' (in any definition of the term) for the Intercontinental Title. Didn't Santino win it on his first night?
This isn't exactly the World Cup we're talking about. It's a practically meaningless midcard belt.He did indeed, but that's different. It was a part of his storyline, so to say. If they were to handle the IC title to anyone just like that then it would become even less important then it already is.
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The chemistry definition is two guys that work better together than they do apart or vice versa.
Some real world examples. Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect are two of the best wrestlers on the planet but its widely thought that their matches together at Summerslam and KOTR are below what their skill sets are. So you could call that neg chemistry. Two amazingly talented guys that don't work better together than apart.
The definition is that they put on better matches together than they do seperatley. We have seen Dolph put on great matches with Rey and others. Danielson puts together great matches with everyone. You can't give the "great chemistry" note for Danielson/Ziggler just because they put on a good match. Just like you can't give it to Flair/Steamboat. When you have two very talented guys putting on a great match thats just good pro wrestling.
Nothing erks me more about TEW than people wanting to give a chemistry note to everyone on the roster just because they work well together. Its supposed to be for two guys that have better matches together than they do apart and since thats not the case here its not great chemistry its just good wrestling. I'll stop ranting now but you are correct SM82 that this wouldn't be good chem.
Thanks stennick. You explained the whole chemistry thing perfectly, and that was what i was trying to say.
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That is my point...TOO MUCH TIME is being put into this. No one stops watching a TV show because their favorite actor is being underutilized in his role but if AJ or someone is used wrong people go nuts. I have read many complaints on the current angle and it seems people don't like it because of who is being used and not what is going on. If Shane McMahon was in the Bischoff role people here would cream themselves over the angle.
Wrong...People stop watching or complaint a lot. In fact, some shows get storyline changes because of their audience demands. It has happened several times, it will continue happening. I, as a writer, would never change a storyline because of public demand, but that's a different story. But it happens and it happens a lot. When Paget Brewster's role on Criminal Minds was cut back and they planned using her in a different way all hell broke down on the internet. So yeah, people whine in other tv shows.
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these las two matches have the "great chemistry" note from TEW stamped all over them
Please correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Adam said a lot of times now that the chemistry note is along the lines of "Can't put out these kind of performances with anyone else" rather then "they work very well together"? And beeing Ziegler a talented guy,then the chemistry note thing wouldn't apply, cause he will be capable of putting on good matches with other guys.
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I take it you didn't see his matches with Edge then? He had 2 or 3 very good matches with him in '07 I think. Didn't his match with HBK win PWI match of the year?
Yeah. But HBK could get a match of the year performance out of any one of us or out of a statue if necessary.
He's going for a consecutive 7 year run with the match of the year award. That's a unique achievement. -
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wouldn't they be BEGGING someone to get that big. Those guys alone are responsible for a lot of the attitude years being a success. <p> </p><p> You really think if they could get John Cena to have a segment 8.4 segment like The Rock did with this is your life that they'd sya "nah we can't let you do that John nobody can get bigger than those two"</p><p> </p><p> Not even in a they keep shooting themselves in a foot when they get a star that could be that big way. There isn't a single star in wrestling today that has half of what the Rock had in charisma. John Cena is good but he's not Rock good, Mr. Kennedy is entertaining but he's not Rock Entertaining.</p><p> </p><p> If Vince could make John Cena as big as The Rock was he'd do it tomorrow. The truth is there isn't a man in pro wrestling that has the charisma the Rock has.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>I get the whole they leave Pro Wrestling thing but honestly The Rock is the only guy to succesfully leave Pro Wrestling and have a mainstream career outside of it. Austin is in second rate movies for the most part or bit roles in big movies. The Rock is a leading man in Hollywood to some degree.</strong> Not even Hogan had any success outside of pro wrestling. I think they would welcome it because at the end of the day these guys have contracts, Vince had to let The Rock leave he didn't have to.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> First of all, Autin didn't exactly leave. He would still be in the ring to this day if it wasn't for Owen and some other injuries. And the Rock...well,yes he is the only one having a succesfull career...but he is not a leading man to any extent and in any degree. A good career,but he's not the next Schwarzennegger. Not yet at least. And i doubt he'll get bigger. From now on...down is the way. And he will end up returning like they all do.</p>
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<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">This post was made by an official 24 viewer!</span></strong> <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> (by the way, i loved the ending, no matter what some people say.
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It sounds worse than it actually is.
And how have they been doing? (Tna, that is.) Rating and quality improvement, or not really?
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The return of the 40+ year old ex-ECW wrestlers.
Oh...so TNA went that way...i see.
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Spoilers
What storyline is that? (2nd spoiler) I haven't had the chance to watch wrestling for a few weeks,so i have no idea of what you're talking about.
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Getting back to topic and to radiohead, i truly understand why they (and any other people) would want to walk away from the mainstream. At the same time,they (and any other people) are drama queens for doing so. That is all i have to say.
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He likes to pick on my typos. I will get him back though.
Yeah,i got it. I was just kidding. Though i don't account myself as responsible if he follows my advice.
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Well I am not offended because I have never heard of the Bearles.
Please...shoot yourself....
This isn't exactly the World Cup we're talking about. It's a practically meaningless midcard belt.
The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*
in The Dog Pound
Posted
My answers are in bold, in case anyone is wondering. Though i guess not.
Ps: Dude...i might be a Cena hater, but you definitely mark for Cena.
I don't mean it as an insult. Afterall, we've been working fine within the E together. lol