Journal discussion thread

[Blackman]

#72: *cries insanely* NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! No really, good feature. :) What Adam fails to mention though is the extent of the penalty occurence? Is it through a lifetime? Is it for a full year only? Take Rock vs Austin from Mania 17 & Mania 19 for instance. I didn't have the feeling I'd 'seen it already' though I understand it if the penalties will occur for a lifetime. But for that to be realistic you'll have to incorporate a history of matches. If not, the first month when starting the game is going to be great, and the latter months worse if poor booking occurs.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Blackman;413010]What Adam fails to mention though is the extent of the penalty occurence? Is it through a lifetime? Is it for a full year only?[/QUOTE] Six months, it's mentioned in the journal entry.

[Rams]

While I like this feature six months seems excessive. I don't think it's unreasonable to see two guys, especially in smaller promotions and large promotions with a several weekly shows (WWE), compete in more then three regular matches over the course of 6 months. I see this causing some head aches especially for newer players using a small roster or booking multiple shows each week. With all that work that has gone into making the game more user friendly it seems odd to place such a restriction. Now players will be forced to check the match list of each worker before booking them. I know I won't be able to remember every match over the last six months. I think 3 months is a much better time frame. It fixes the exploit while not creating unnecessary work for the user. Beyond that I like the feature. Good work. Edit: After doing a bit of research on OWW.com I couldn't find any instances of workers in the WWE or ROH having more then three regular matches in the six month time frame. So it would appear I am wrong about it not being realistic. I still think it's a bit excessive for the game and might cause problems for new players but that of course is just a guess on my part. Personally I don't think I'll run into too much trouble, I try to keep things fresh.

[Self]

Love this feature. I'll wait to see how it works in practice, but trusting Adam as I do I'm excited. Playing NOTBPW and knowing I can get an A* at will with McFly and Dan Jr. is fine at first, but eventually it just gets annoying. Now I have to use the matches sparingly, or build them up so they get better every time... And I know I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to forget certain (lower card) matches that have happened, and I'll repeat them, and I'll be punished. I'm totally fine with that. Honestly, I should be paying more attention to my Cody Rhodes-level guys anyway. Love it.

[FINisher]

Finally. This is what I wanted, and many others asked for.. I mean really, in TEW07 it only took time to be succesful. This time it is going to be way harder as I can't have Plaque vs. Ultimate Phoenix all the time, or Hyobanshi vs. Gakusha.. This makes the game even more challenging. And I love it.

[1PWfan]

I sort of like this feature. As with National and Regional Battles, I have my reservations but I'll wait until the game itself to form a full opinion. It'll be challenging, and I do think that six months is too long a period (speaking as a fan, I would say three months is a better limit, as others have suggested), but it does push against complacency.

[crayon]

I loled when I saw this feature today (just after the heated thread that was going). I like it. I think there's definitely some issues with it that'll crop up, but it's a very good starting area, and can be nicely built upon in future iterations to encompass all promotion styles (such as I think workrate based promotions would be able to get away with more matches in that timeframe compared to entertainment based promotions). It also makes national battles all that more challenging. One thing I hope for this release, is that you'll get road agents note for if this mechanic is the cause for the rating dropping some. Coz a lot of players won't be looking out for it I can imagine.

[gazwefc83]

im not impressed with this!!! it should be an option you can turn off what if i have an on going fued? I can only have them wrestle each other twice before im penolised!!!!!! Not impressed at all

[Jonfun]

I also think it should be an option to turn on and off.

[cappyboy]

Man, this is one of those discussion topics that I have a love/hate relationship with. On the one hand, I love there are several points I could discuss here. But at the same time, I'm no Multi Quote Moe over here. I've never quite mastered the art of quoting several different posts and addressing them simultaneously like Brother Hunter has. To start at the beginning, I do like this conceptually. This is one of those things that will increase the challenge level and appears that it will do so in a reasonable manner. I hate little more in game development when frustrations get added in the name of making it a bigger challenge. However, I do tend to agree with the poster that it does seem a little harsh to have it be six months. Whither the match series storylines? Your best of threes, fives or sevens? Those don't usually mix match styles while they are in progress. If the participants feud after the series you might see some alternate flavorings to matches but not so much the series itself. And I do share the concern of the impact on newer players. Not knowing the game, this could confuse them as they get their bearing. Possibly creating frustration with the learning curve and making them wonder if they do really want to come here for tips like they have in the past or just not bother. All in all though, I think this is a good thing for the game. I know I tend to pigeonhole myself with limited thinking about booking at times. A feature which will help break players out of their ruts has the potential to be a wonderful thing in 08 gaming sessions to come.

[ChrisPMWBenoit]

Excellent feature! This means it will be hard and satisfying to book a legendary series of matches!

[Self]

I'll have to read it again, but it sounds like you only get penalised for the three 'traps' mentioned. As long as the matches get consistantly better (with storylines, hyping, gimmick matches) it sounds like it'll work okay. If however any match after the second falls below the average match quality, fans will get bored. I too hope for a Road Agent note.

[James Casey]

A best of seven series typically starts off low-key anyway - and there's nothing to say that it's an inevitable downward spiral once you take your first hit. I would imagine that, for example, a 7-series with average to good matches 1-3, great match 4, tailing off in 5-6 (lower quality repetition penalty) could still pull of a best-ever rating for match 7. A lot of feuds nowadays run their course in a relatively short space of time - way, way before the fourth match in the space of six months. Okay, you have the random matches between the workers cropping up again, but those aren't intended to be as good as the PPV blow-off matches. This feature encourages experimentation and variation in booking, but to me it seems that the cumulative multiplier means that unless you're running a fed with weekly+ shows, with a small roster, you're not going to be getting big penalties for repetition anyway.

[gazwefc83]

but with big mainevent fueds i usually get A - A* matchs how can i improve on that!! for this to work your gona have to book a really crappy match first like a C grade

[Tigerkinney]

[quote=Self;413046]I'll have to read it again, but it sounds like you only get penalised for the three 'traps' mentioned. As long as the matches get consistantly better (with storylines, hyping, gimmick matches) it sounds like it'll work okay. If however any match after the second falls below the average match quality, fans will get bored. I too hope for a Road Agent note.[/quote] Thats the way I read it too. Quite frankly I'm loving this feature, as it means no more being rewarded for being a lazy booker, which always kind of irked me. As for those wondering how this could effect those working in small feds, with a more limited roster. I'll give an example of how a feud could be built up. [B]Show 1:[/B] Regular Singles Match- Main Face in feud vs Main Heel in feud (Heel sneaks the win) [B]Show 2: [/B]Tag Match- Faces win, but Heels get some heat back with a beatdown afterwards, another face makes save. [B]Show 3:[/B] Six Man Tag- Main Face gets pin on Main heel [B]Show 4: [/B]Regular Singles Match- Main Face vs Main Heel (No contest- after Ref loses control of match.) [B]Show 5: [/B]Singles Match (No DQ)- Heel goes over [B]Show 6 :[/B] Final Match (Cage Match)- Face goes over and 'wins' the feud. If you're working a one show a month schedule, you could stretch this to a six month feud, if you're working two shows a month, it would still keep you going for three months. Personally I think these restrictions would be more challenging for those working with a Cult or higher fed, that may well be working a weekly schedule plus pay per view.

[D-Lyrium]

*dances around his bedroom* This is pretty much the best thing to happen to the TEW series since KK's picture packs ¬_¬

[Self]

[QUOTE=gazwefc83;413051]but with big mainevent fueds i usually get A - A* matchs how can i improve on that!! for this to work your gona have to book a really crappy match first like a C grade[/QUOTE] Or you book tag matches. Or 3-ways. Or just have them yell at each other. Or run-ins. Or commentate on each other's matches. Just hold off on the 1 on 1 matches, or fans will get bored. Just like real life. Best of 7's with top guys may backfire in 08. This system seems to have been put in place precisely to stop people from doing repeated A* matches.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=crayon;413033]One thing I hope for this release, is that you'll get road agents note for if this mechanic is the cause for the rating dropping some. Coz a lot of players won't be looking out for it I can imagine.[/QUOTE] You do get told via road agent notes; they even tell you which of the traps you fell into. [QUOTE=gazwefc83;413041]im not impressed with this!!! it should be an option you can turn off what if i have an on going fued? I can only have them wrestle each other twice before im penolised!!!!!! Not impressed at all[/QUOTE] You should be getting penalised if you're just churning the same matches out over and over again - you sound like you [I]are[/I] booking pretty lazily from what you have written so far, which is what the feature is meant to prevent. Virtually every real life feud you can think of does not consist solely of the same match over and over again; tag matches are incorporated, multi man matches, etc, etc, to add variety. If you're not doing that, and are just having X vs Y over and over again then I don't think you should be getting rewarded as you're not showing any creativity or even any realism. [QUOTE=cappyboy;413043]And I do share the concern of the impact on newer players. Not knowing the game, this could confuse them as they get their bearing.[/QUOTE] I think more credit should be given to new players. This really isn't a highly complex feature - it boils down to little more than "don't be lazy with your booking" - and is backed up with on-screen notes to that effect. Unless they're either really dumb or really lazy I can't see it being a difficult concept to learn quickly!

[Hurrikane]

I wouldn't really say it adds any more difficulty to the game, if you're playing the way it should be played. We all want TEW to be as realistic as possible, so I don't see how anyone could fault this feature.

[gazwefc83]

i can see what adam is trying to say but if you are running a promotion based on realism and dont run storylines but just try to give the fans a good match this is not good and it will be extremely hard when playing as a big promotion that runs 3 shows a week, that will be 12 shows a month and a PPV im going to need a roster of about 200 hundred wrestlers

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=gazwefc83;413062]i can see what adam is trying to say but if you are running a promotion based on realism and dont run storylines but just try to give the fans a good match this is not good and it will be extremely hard when playing as a big promotion that runs 3 shows a week, that will be 12 shows a month and a PPV im going to need a roster of about 200 hundred wrestlers[/QUOTE] If you're running 3 shows a week then you [I]should[/I] need a huge roster to survive, and it [I]should[/I] be a huge challenge - in TEW terms, that situation would be the ultimate test of a booker, I'd be disappointed if it was easy to do! Even if it a realism-based promotion, I think it's realistic to say that the fans would get bored of the same match being shown over and over again without variation. I can't really think of any real world situations where that has been done successfully; Raven vs Dreamer in ECW didn't as they used a big supporting cast to make sure there was variety - Flair vs Steamboat was primarily done off-camera so that the same fans were exposed to it multiple times - most modern day WWE feuds don't involve repeat matches without variation - etc, etc. I think the bottom line is that you're only going to find this feature particularly difficult if you've fallen into the trap of relying on repetitive booking in previous games. I think we can all agree that repetitive booking is not "good" booking, being neither realistic nor hard to do, so the feature is logical - talented booker will easily work around it, as they do in real life, poor bookers will struggle....and as this is a booking sim, that's the right thing!

[djthefunkchris]

I think the concern is more of the storylines requireing that you do just that... The following match must be a 1 vs. 1 match involving "X" on side 1, and "Y" on side 2. I'm pretty sure that you don't have to have the same exact match though, any 1vs.1 match will do (I'm almost positive without going and looking). So you could have a 1vs.1 no rules, hardcore, cage, etc.. and all work for the feud (again, I'm almost positive).

[eayragt]

[QUOTE=gazwefc83;413062]i can see what adam is trying to say but if you are running a promotion based on realism and dont run storylines but just try to give the fans a good match this is not good and it will be extremely hard when playing as a big promotion that runs 3 shows a week, that will be 12 shows a month and a PPV im going to need a roster of about 200 hundred wrestlers[/QUOTE] You [I]are [/I]allowed to book the same match over and over again, as long as it's not getting worse. You can better an A* match by getting a better A* match - this feature will work from exact percentage. Also, if you're running 13 shows a month of seven matches each (which I think is a lot) you've got 546 matches. If you've got thirty wrestlers that's 435 different match combinations, which you can carry out twice with no punishment. So that's 870 matches you can run without any risk of [I]any [/I]punishment, with a particularly small roster considering the amount of shows. When you add to this that you can run more than three match ups without punishment if you're booking well, then I don't think that 200 wrestlers will be anyway near required. And as for smaller promotions - these promotions will be running far less shows - four a month is really too many, but I'll go with that. Assuming seven matches per card again, that's 168 matches. 15 wrestlers = 105 different match ups = 210 match ups with no risk of punishment. More if you're a good booker. I fail to see the probem. EDIT: This assumes 100% singles matches. Throw in tag matches, and your job is even easier.

[gazwefc83]

do these punishments accure for B shows? i guess not

[soundsofsilver]

Adam, I'm sure this goes without saying, but I love you, and you now have $35 of my money on June 1st.