alden Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I might have spelt that wrong but who "invented" the ganso/ganzo bomb? I have seen that a few people might have taken credit for using it first. I do believe it is Tosiaki but not sure. So any of you big puro fans willing to set the record straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm fairly sure it was indeed inadvertently created by Toshiaki Kawada onto the late-great Mitsuharu Misawa. Sadly, I don't know the whole deal myself, but I think that is what pretty much happened. EDIT: Found this on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQ1PFkXlV0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I always thought Kawada innovated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I had seen that clip a few times but never with that title. It never seamed like a "accident" to be honest because he was holding him for a while and just dropped. From what i understand about that match it was a long and hard fight and it could have been he just could not get Misawa up for a proper powerbomb and might have been hoping misawa would just lift up. Either way i have to admit this might be number 1 on my list of moves i hope i never see again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedew Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I always thought Kawada innovated it. I love the fact that it took hundreds of years to 'innovate' dropping someone on their head whilst holding their legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHamster Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah just chiming in that I always heard it was Kawada too. As cool as that move is, it's one of those moves that I don't feel too comfortable watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 From what i understand about that match it was a long and hard fight and it could have been he just could not get Misawa up for a proper powerbomb and might have been hoping misawa would just lift up. Either way i have to admit this might be number 1 on my list of moves i hope i never see again. As I recall Kawada had broken his arm quite early on in the match, so that probably had something to do with it. Edit: Does anyone remember how they finished the match? What could possibly top that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingfan1 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 They way I always heard it told was that the kawada/mitsuharu match involving the "infamous ganso bomb" was actually a botched spot in the match. Also that the move was mistakenly labeled as the ganso bomb which is apparently slightly different. At least thats how those wonderful developers at spike (aka Fire Pro) see it. As they always have the ganso bomb and original powerbomb listed in the moves section. With the latter being the move everyone always asks for. Just my two cents anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINisher Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 First. The Ganso bomb was a botched spot: Misawa was supposed to counter Kawada's powerbomb and do a hurricanrana but somehow the two didn't click on that particular spot as Kawada kept holding on and didn't go for the hurricanrana. After holding Misawa a little while Kawada probably thought "Oh what the hell, I'll just drop him on his head" and went for it. Notice how he uses his legs, knees as he rattles Misawa so that he won't land entirely on his neck. Second. In FPW2 the Ganso bomb is NOT the Original Powerbomb. In my opinion it is infact the "Reverse T-Piledriver", Grab A section. Original powerbomb is a different move and clearly a lot more of a powerbomb than a piledriver, which Ganso bomb is. From Wikipedia.. Ganso bomb Translated literally from Japanese as Originator Bomb but in English more commonly referred to as the original powerbomb, and also known as a Hangman's DDT, this move sees the attacking wrestler bend an opponent over and grab them in a belly to back waistlock before then lifting the opponent until they are vertical. The attacking wrestler then drives the opponent down on their neck and shoulder while either remaining in a standing position, sitting position or dropping down to their knees. The move is considered one of the most dangerous moves in professional wrestling as the person taking the move is in freefall, dropped onto their own head or neck without protection. I might have been wrong with the hurricanrana thing. Don't know. From wikipedia aswell, Kawada's profile. He also inadvertently invented what many call the dangerous finisher in wrestling - the ganso Bomb. Kawada was attempting a powerbomb on Misawa but couldn't lift him high enough because of his broken arm and dropped him on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 It's an ugly piledriver. Big whoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I might have been wrong with the hurricanrana thing. Don't know. Misawa was definitely going for the rana, the way he does it is quite unique so you tell that that's what he was trying to do. It's an ugly piledriver. Big whoop. Good contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Good contribution. I was a bit blunt perhaps, but I'm honestly not sure how that move gets its own name. Based on the clip it's either a total botch or a sloppy Piledriver. I guess maybe it's evolved from that into some unique and recognisable, but when I clicked that link I expected some awesome head-droppy move, not a Japanese guy failing to get it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderndaywarrior Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I think the only big difference between the ganso bomb and the kawada driver was one was intended to be a piledriver and the other was intended as a powerbomb,otherwise it's mostly the same move....and both came from botches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I think while the ganso bomb might not look like much there are alot of wrestlers who never want it done. There are maybe three moves that i hope i never see again. 1:burning hammer 2: ganso bomb 3: A true vertibreaker they have hurt to many people and have no place in the sport in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt13 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ijZKSvnhqU heres a link to the to moves that are pretty scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I love the fact that it took hundreds of years to 'innovate' dropping someone on their head whilst holding their legs First. The Ganso bomb was a botched spot I've never understood why people split hairs on things like this. Honestly, who cares HOW the move was created or innovated? Even as a botched spot, Kawada had enough wherewithal and concern for his opponent (and skill) to try to protect him. And Nedew, as you well know, it's taken decades for folks to find new and interesting ways of dropping people on their head whilst holding their legs, arms, trunk and not killing or crippling their opponent. Search Youtube for the Victory Star Drop. From all I'm told, there's nothing to post off of so your head is hitting the mat, at velocity, full force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 3: A true vertibreaker they have hurt to many people and have no place in the sport in my opinion. Umm, Megumi Kudo (the inventor of the move) used that successfully and safely for almost a decade, under far worse conditions than many people today (try doing it at the end of a barbed wire death match with your blood gushing out of your head). By all accounts, Megumi Kudo wasn't one of the top 10 skilled workers of her generation/era. So the move should be banned because people who aren't skilled enough to use it (or take it) properly cause and suffer injury? I don't get it. If that's the case, we'd have to revert to slap wrestling because every wrestling maneuver can cause injury if not used (or, again, taken) properly. Stiff punches that aren't done correctly can break cheekbones and orbital bones. Suplexes can cause disc problems in the back and neck. Heck, someone died as a result of a freakin' flapjack (Brian Ong). Where do you draw the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 O i am not saying banned......I believe a worker should be able to do anything they think they can do safley. I just don't think most people can do it safley. If someone could figure out how to do a top rope burning hammer or a ganso bomb through a flaming barbwire table above an electrified swimming pool more power to them. I just don't think most people can do that move safe enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I've never understood why people split hairs on things like this. Honestly, who cares HOW the move was created or innovated? Even as a botched spot, Kawada had enough wherewithal and concern for his opponent (and skill) to try to protect him. And Nedew, as you well know, it's taken decades for folks to find new and interesting ways of dropping people on their head whilst holding their legs, arms, trunk and not killing or crippling their opponent. Search Youtube for the Victory Star Drop. From all I'm told, there's nothing to post off of so your head is hitting the mat, at velocity, full force. I'm no wrestler, but the Victory Star Drop doesn't look that bad to take. You're basically falling backwards onto your shoulders... the force of your opponents legs add some velocity, sure, but... I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer to land shoulders & neck than directly on top of my head. Neither are ideal. I'd take a 'Ganso Bomb' off someone I knew we strong enough not to struggle to carry me. Someone who could pull a bit of the force somehow. Someone who could make it look like he's dropping me, but is actually placing me on top of my head. Then again, I'd likely be the party pooper who when told "Indy Geek 483 is going over you with a Canadian Destroyer" would say "Not a chance. Figure 4 finish. Work the knee, kid." Some call it old school... some call it cowardice... I call it living to fight another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Jobs To Me Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Fun Fact: In the CornellVerse Big Smack Scott invented the Ganso Bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Jim Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 1: burning hammer Awesome selling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlmgbZhkWww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Awesome selling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlmgbZhkWww That video is definitely from IWA-MS... Ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 O i am not saying banned......I believe a worker should be able to do anything they think they can do safley. I just don't think most people can do it safley. If someone could figure out how to do a top rope burning hammer or a ganso bomb through a flaming barbwire table above an electrified swimming pool more power to them. I just don't think most people can do that move safe enough. I would totally agree. Most promoters don't want the liability issues so they vet who can do what, as it should be. The people who would be held responsible for a botch should be the ones making that decision. It's like the WWE when they banned the piledriver and SSP. Certain workers were still allowed to do the former (Lawler, Kane, 'Taker) and the latter was recently opened up to young Matt Sydal (who has been doing it for YEARS). I'm no wrestler, but the Victory Star Drop doesn't look that bad to take. You're basically falling backwards onto your shoulders... the force of your opponents legs add some velocity, sure, but... I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer to land shoulders & neck than directly on top of my head. Neither are ideal. Did you see the one where Manami did it to Aja Kong? Look at how Aja lands (or rather, sells the landing). Back of the head with the shoulders to try to break the fall. Then again, I'd likely be the party pooper who when told "Indy Geek 483 is going over you with a Canadian Destroyer" would say "Not a chance. Figure 4 finish. Work the knee, kid." That's funny right there. My sides are hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Did you see the one where Manami did it to Aja Kong? Look at how Aja lands (or rather, sells the landing). Back of the head with the shoulders to try to break the fall. That's the one I saw. It looks impressive. Definitely a finish to an important match. I'd have little hesitation in taking the move if the situation allowed it... although now I'm starting to think I'd only take it once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmoe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 That video is definitely from IWA-MS... Ugh... "Kenta Kobashi would be sooooo pissed" Haha, and it's true! I remember when IWA-MS was good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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