Wrestling Century Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives? To be fair, Shad and Luke have been in the 'E for a while. Shame about Gallows, he could really have been something. Now let us sing. Biscuits and Gravy Made me a man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives? Because Vance Archer stinks, he stunk in TNA and he stunk in the WWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juggaloninjalee Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I am honestly not surprised in the least bit. After the SES Gallows had nothing. Shad I kinda like but oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedpropaganda Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Hardly watch these days but THE DUDEBUSTERS RULED! They were very entertaining, That sucks! The rest were wastes of space IMO though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Kind of surprising that Jillian Hall got released; she's one of the few solid hands among the divas, and could always be counted on to make less experienced girls look good. Hope she ends up somewhere where she can show some of her actual talent though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 isen't hall becoming a trainer in fcw? She might have been released from her "talent" contract. From what i understand talent have a diffrent contract then staff. Hence why j.r. no longer has a "talent" contract but a corprate position. Hall might get the same deal as a "trainer" type of deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0shey Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Damn, WWE really doing some winter cleaning.. Archer lasted longer than i though he would and for the rest its kind of MEH!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Probably because Vince doesn't watch MMA and is about 10 years out of touch.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I guess it's a hard thing to play off if the guy doesn't have a legit MMA background to begin with. When they brought Shamrock in, he was at the height of his MMA fame and a world-ranked competitor. It's tough to say "Hey, here's Johnny Cagefighter, the baddest man in MMA"...ok, so why is he not competing in MMA then? </p><p> </p><p> Maybe it's just a lack of someone who can do the job? I think if you had a current MMA heavyweight who had everything that Shamrock had back in 96 and was willing to walk away from the game, WWE would be all over him. Chael Sonnen would be perfect, but is probably too small.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>Ken Shamrock was equal to Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Brock Lesnar, Randy, </p><p> </p><p> this guy was world famous he was a former "champion" for lack of a better term and he truly was considered one of the best in the world especially by the American Media who were happy somebody beat a Gracie. </p><p> </p><p> Rampage if he wasn't doing movies would have been perfect for the WWE, guys like Tito, Chuck and Randy are just too old and have lost some of their legacy with bad losses in later times. </p><p> </p><p> If I was making a wish list of MMA guys that have the name power and the athletic ability to "catch on" as well as the personality it'd be guys like Lesnar, Mir, Hughes, Jackson, Lewis, Serra and thats about it off the top of my head of guys with name value, athletic ability and personality to make an impact.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I guess it's a hard thing to play off if the guy doesn't have a legit MMA background to begin with. When they brought Shamrock in, he was at the height of his MMA fame and a world-ranked competitor. It's tough to say "Hey, here's Johnny Cagefighter, the baddest man in MMA"...ok, so why is he not competing in MMA then? <p> </p><p> Maybe it's just a lack of someone who can do the job? I think if you had a current MMA heavyweight who had everything that Shamrock had back in 96 and was willing to walk away from the game, WWE would be all over him. Chael Sonnen would be perfect, but is probably too small.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Bob Sapp was a HUGE missed opportunity, considering he did some work in Japan and became a household way in that embarrassing Mr. T/Hulk Hogan way.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisKid Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Prophet" data-cite="Prophet" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>From the WWE website ...<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> They killed the Dudebusters! <img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> i always prefered Croft so im sad <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> Archers gone i'm sad:(</p><p> Jillians gone meh</p><p> Tiffanys gone <img alt=":eek:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> (damn)</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>I'm uncomfortable with MMA guys intersecting with Pro Wrestling promotions. It tends to bring up all sorts of "one is fake, one is real" comparisons, and I think the last thing you need in wrestling is to say 'this is fake'. I'm okay with Basketball players coming in, or football players, or even Boxers, because those are very different sports to what wrestling pretends to be, and so can comfortably exist side-by-side. MMA is just too similar, with the only difference being that wrestling is a highly stylized, fictional sport.</p><p> </p><p> That isn't to say there aren't a lot of guys in MMA who would make great pro-wrestlers. Stennick mentioned some. You could certainly give a guy MMA influenced aesthetics (outfit, moves etc) but to me, if you're bringing in a 'star', and want to draw with his pre-existing star power, you have to talk about where he came from. You have to explain what MMA is. In the context of pro-wrestling, I have no idea how I'd do that.</p><p> </p><p> If I were running a wrestling promotion, I would love to have Chael Sonnen. I think Chael is one of the greatest men alive. He is awesome... but I have no idea how I'd book him without compromising my own product. </p><p> </p><p> On the subject of Roy Nelson... I dig him, but I can't see him having any shot in WWE. With his physique, WWE is the LAST place I'd expect to see him. He struggles to be taken seriously in UFC looking like that, and there he can at least back it up. In Vince's world of bodybuilders, I'd be stunned to see him.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratusfaction Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>I'm pretty upset about the latest releases. I can't believe they released Vance Archer!</p><p> </p><p> Last thing I knew Jillian Hall was heading to FCW to train the future divas. Guess they decided to fire her instead. I have a feeling we will see her in TNA in the new year. </p><p> </p><p> Tiffany, was actually my new favorite up and coming divas. She showed more promise and growth in the last past 8 months then Kelly Kelly has in 2 years. I'm sure the only reason she was fired was because of that altercation she had with her husband Drew McEntyre a couple months ago!</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="stratusfaction" data-cite="stratusfaction" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm pretty upset about the latest releases. I can't believe they released Vance Archer!<p> </p><p> Last thing I knew Jillian Hall was heading to FCW to train the future divas. Guess they decided to fire her instead. I have a feeling we will see her in TNA in the new year. </p><p> </p><p> Tiffany, was actually my new favorite up and coming divas. She showed more promise and growth in the last past 8 months then Kelly Kelly has in 2 years. I'm sure the only reason she was fired was because of that altercation she had with her husband Drew McEntyre a couple months ago!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think Jill will still end up as a trainer, they probley as i think someone mentioned already) just released her from her talent contract, similar to what the did with JR. </p><p> </p><p> I'm cautiously optimistic this means they are going to end the brand split, since aside from Tiff, this looks like a clear out of smackdown's lower mid card.</p><p> </p><p> I'd love for them to be done with the split in general, they don't have the talent to make it worth while anymore, and the fact that because of that everyone shows up on each show anyway is annoying.</p><p> </p><p> Combine the World titles, Drop the US title for the cruiser weight belt so guys like bourne, kaval, jtg, tyson kidd ect have a purpose, and end the brand split, and I'd be a happy fan.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> You could certainly give a guy MMA influenced aesthetics (outfit, moves etc) but to me, if you're bringing in a 'star', and want to draw with his pre-existing star power, you have to talk about where he came from. You have to explain what MMA is. In the context of pro-wrestling, I have no idea how I'd do that.</p><p> </p><p> If I were running a wrestling promotion, I would love to have Chael Sonnen. I think Chael is one of the greatest men alive. He is awesome... but I have no idea how I'd book him without compromising my own product. </p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The only way I can think of doing it would be something along the lines of "In MMA this guy only fights 3 times per year and gets a 3 month training camp. Now he has to fight three times a week on a moment's notice!" </p><p> </p><p> Then you have the whole, "he's not used to getting hit by chairs, dropped on his head, losing by pinfall" thing. You could have an MMA guy going for rear-naked chokes and armbars, only to be pinned when he's locking them in. You'd also have the guy come in as a face, so that bad guys could low-blow or otherwise cheat to beat him after taking an ass-whupping. </p><p> </p><p> There's plenty of Kryptonite out there for MMA guys to get a 'fish out of water' thing going on, I think.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>I think what he means, Brashley, is that it begs the question -- why is it so great that he's from MMA? Essentially, it means that either you don't play up the MMA aspect, or you get egg on your face because you have to tell people, "This is a guy who really can kick butt" as opposed to... what, Randy Orton who puts people in the hospital? Or Sheamus, who broke a guy's neck and forced him to retire? Or... you tell people that Orton's punt doesn't REALLY hurt them, and Sheamus didn't REALLY cause Jamie Noble to be injured he's just fine in FCW. </p><p> </p><p> Even though everyone knows that wrestling is fake, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that is ruined when they <strong>tell</strong> you it's fake.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Linsolv" data-cite="Linsolv" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think what he means, Brashley, is that it begs the question -- why is it so great that he's from MMA? Essentially, it means that either you don't play up the MMA aspect, or you get egg on your face because you have to tell people, "This is a guy who really can kick butt" as opposed to... what, Randy Orton who puts people in the hospital? Or Sheamus, who broke a guy's neck and forced him to retire? Or... you tell people that Orton's punt doesn't REALLY hurt them, and Sheamus didn't REALLY cause Jamie Noble to be injured he's just fine in FCW. <p> </p><p> Even though everyone knows that wrestling is fake, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that is ruined when they <strong>tell</strong> you it's fake.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh I get the problem - but it has been done before. They did it with Shamrock, who had a decent run at the top end of the WWE for a while. They also did it to a lesser extent with Dan Severn and Steve Blackman. ECW did it with Taz (even going so far as having him choke out former UFC fighter Paul Varelans) and WCW did it with Tank Abbott, before they had him dancing with 3 count. If you push it, you could even say that they did it with Kurt Angle, another guy who went from a 'real' sport to a 'fake' one.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashasheen Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oh I get the problem - but it has been done before. They did it with Shamrock, who had a decent run at the top end of the WWE for a while. They also did it to a lesser extent with Dan Severn and Steve Blackman. ECW did it with Taz (even going so far as having him choke out former UFC fighter Paul Varelans) and WCW did it with Tank Abbott, before they had him dancing with 3 count. If you push it, you could even say that they did it with Kurt Angle, another guy who went from a 'real' sport to a 'fake' one.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> WCW also did it with Jerry Flynn and Goldberg. </p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqBvarUml90" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqBvarUml90</a></p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43LjkIizWIU" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43LjkIizWIU</a></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>Taz and Goldberg don't weigh into my issue. I'm talking about bringing in pre-existing stars from another sport, into the world on pro-wrestling. Taz and Goldberg were brand new guys, given typical 'bad ass' gimmicks, with slight MMA flavouring. That's awesome. You can do that until the cows come home. Rock on.</p><p> </p><p> Kurt Angle's a good guy to bring up. A star from another combat sport, whose past success was used to draw money. The difference there is that Amateur Wrestling fits really well in the kayfabe Pro Wrestling world. If you took Pro-Wrestling, made strikes illegal and fought to 1-counts, that's Amateur Wrestling. A unique sport with it's own rules. It's perfectly logical that Kurt excelled at that sport, then graduated to this one. MMA doesn't fit quite so well.</p><p> </p><p> I didn't like how they portrayed Shamrock, Severn or Blackman. There was always the element of "these are <em>real</em> tough guys" that clashes with what WWF claimed to be. With Blackman at least they ventured into him being a weapon specialist (a skill most wrasslers wouldn't have) and having him kick ass in the Hardcore division. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying I can't think of a way to bring in Nelson/Chael/Ramage etc that I'd be comfortable with. If you ignore his past, there's less point bringing in a star. If you showcase his past, you risk exposing your product. I guess you could treat UFC like WCW back in the day. It's a "different fighting promotion". I doubt Vince would go that route though. He wouldn't want anyone to think he and Dana are in competition, seeing as he's getting his ass kicked in buyrates.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 <p>I suppose what you could do is give 'em the old NXT treatment. Take Quentin "Rampage" Jackson. Rename him "Tim Wrist". Debut him as you would anyone else, with no mention of his past beyond an MMA inspired outfit, a couple of MMA moves, and the "Wrist is going on a rampage, King!" Cole-ism. Much like when Danielson came to WWE, Quentin's fans will check him out. That's the whole point, right? To lure back some MMA fans?</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slagaholic Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Would his finisher be a wrist lock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Sign me up for an "It's all in the Wrist" shirt! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyman Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Taz and Goldberg don't weigh into my issue. I'm talking about bringing in pre-existing stars from another sport, into the world on pro-wrestling. Taz and Goldberg were brand new guys, given typical 'bad ass' gimmicks, with slight MMA flavouring. That's awesome. You can do that until the cows come home. Rock on.<p> </p><p> Kurt Angle's a good guy to bring up. A star from another combat sport, whose past success was used to draw money. The difference there is that Amateur Wrestling fits really well in the kayfabe Pro Wrestling world. If you took Pro-Wrestling, made strikes illegal and fought to 1-counts, that's Amateur Wrestling. A unique sport with it's own rules. It's perfectly logical that Kurt excelled at that sport, then graduated to this one. MMA doesn't fit quite so well.</p><p> </p><p> I didn't like how they portrayed Shamrock, Severn or Blackman. There was always the element of "these are <em>real</em> tough guys" that clashes with what WWF claimed to be. With Blackman at least they ventured into him being a weapon specialist (a skill most wrasslers wouldn't have) and having him kick ass in the Hardcore division. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying I can't think of a way to bring in Nelson/Chael/Ramage etc that I'd be comfortable with. If you ignore his past, there's less point bringing in a star. If you showcase his past, you risk exposing your product. I guess you could treat UFC like WCW back in the day. It's a "different fighting promotion". I doubt Vince would go that route though. He wouldn't want anyone to think he and Dana are in competition, seeing as he's getting his ass kicked in buyrates.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you have an MMA guy that specializes in one area (punching, submissions, groundwork, etc) or has a specific style (boxing, jui-jitsu, etc), you could make it work by hyping him as a guy that's dangerous because he can knock you out or he can make you tap. You can emphasize aspects of a guy's past without exposing your product.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Would his finisher be a wrist lock?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Obviously he'd come to the ring in a cowboy hat and poncho, and finish opponents with "Wristful of Dollars". <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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