The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Do they need the title on the line in Rock/Cena at WM28? Not in my opinion. Does it add to the match at all? Again, not in my opinion. I've stated before that you could potentially have four main event level matches at WM28 with Rock/Cena, Undertaker/???, WWE Title match and Wrold Heavyweight title match. It would be massive.</p><p> </p><p>

However, they seem to feel like ratings and general awareness increase with Cena being the champion so I have a feeling he's going to have the belt this march one way or the other. </p><p> </p><p>

I really think CM Punk should carry the belt for awhile though.</p>

[Zeel1]

<p>Rhodes takes off the mask, then Orton directs an attack onto his face...</p><p> </p><p>

Why does this remind me of that time where Vickie finally got out of her wheelchair, only to be hit with a 619, and then put DIRECTLY back into it? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[eayragt]

Having had the benefit of only just watching Night of Champions and then finding out a rerun of RAW was on, I'm not quite so down about this PV as some.

 

I think it's the perfect time to give Mark Henry the title. Not only is he on a pretty large wave of momentum, but he gets the title off Orton, which I'm always happy with. Also, is there anyone currently with the company who's served as long as him who hasn't had a World Title reign? I know that just proves how they handle the title nowadays, but if you're going to give it out to everybody and anybody why not Henry?

 

And either Henry gets booked strong until Big Show and Kane are back (the preferable option), or he just loses it back to Orton at Hell in the Cell. I think there are some people who will moan at whichever of those outcomes occurs

 

Unfortunately his win was a forebearer of Cena's. I can understand WWE thinking that having Henry and Del Rio as champions isn't the best way to draw ratings and sell PPV's. That's the trouble with the brand split - you know that if one half has a "weak" champion the other has to have a "name" champion. It's business. Better Cena to have it then Chavo, who seems to have forgotten that WWE is all about Sports Entertainment. Still, cena vs Punk vs Del Rio is nothing to be sniffed at for Hell in a Cell.

 

And Punk Triple H was going to well, and then it turned into a TNA Main Event. Punk got buried - after all, what can you call a defeat where you are hit with four or five finishers and attacked by numerous different people ? However, after the match I realised I still enjoyed it, and was intrigued. RAW then gave a hint at what they were planning for Survivor Series, and now I'm happier with Awesome Truth's appearance (... apart from the fact that The Miz can't seem to shout "You Suck" with any kind of timing). So the question is still, who should have won at Night of Champions? The interference makes sense, but you could have continued this story with anyone winning.

 

So, who needed the win more? CM Punk defeating Triple H would have been huge for him... but to be fair having defeated John Cena twice recently it wasn't vitial. Triple H is being rolled out as a special attraction, but to keep being able to do that he needs wins (remember, he lost his last match). Also, thinking about a future rematch I think Punk trying to get revenge on Trips is better than the other way round. At the end of the day it's close, but I can see why Punk losing makes sense, especially as he continues to be booked strongly since.

 

And if Natalya doesn't win the Diva's Championship soon I've got no idea what's going on with that title.

[Teh_Showtime]

I will say given the circumstances that HHH HAD to win. But the dud of the night booking wise (for me anyways) was having Beth lose a competitive match to Kelly in her home town. This storyline could go the way of Jinder Mahal and Kahli if one of them don't win the title soon.

[Jaysin]

I was looking at the match listing for the new Ladder Match dvd and this one caught me off guard. I'm shocked they're using an OVW match and I'm shocked their is a Diva's match on a ladder match DVD

 

I wish Beth and Nattie would get their way and have a ladder match between them two.

 

Ladder Match for the Undisputed OVW Women's Championship

Katie Lea vs. Beth Phoenix

OVW 23rd December, 2006

[djthefunkchris]

I don't think the title will be on the line between Rock and Cena. Personally don't care if it is either. I think the WWE is teasing that it may be on the line though. I don't even think they know exactly if it will be for a belt. Things seem to change in creative a lot over the course of a few months.

 

That was also May 2 which is ancient history to a majority of wrestling fans. If the WWE promotes it as having the title, then it will have the title. I don't think they NEED to have the title involved to pop the buyrate, but as demented as Vince is right now (read likely changing the title at NoC to pop a higher rating Monday night...even though it neuters someone they spent almost a year building up...ADR). If they have any foresight, you promote the match without the title involved and if it's needed you can always work it in. Little harder to do it the other way.

 

I like the long term idea and think that in many other companies it would have a chance of working and being successful. WWE is too shortsighted to ever do something like that. They've had enough trouble just with Rock/Cena this year.

 

My $.02

 

Do they need the title on the line in Rock/Cena at WM28? Not in my opinion. Does it add to the match at all? Again, not in my opinion. I've stated before that you could potentially have four main event level matches at WM28 with Rock/Cena, Undertaker/???, WWE Title match and Wrold Heavyweight title match. It would be massive.

 

However, they seem to feel like ratings and general awareness increase with Cena being the champion so I have a feeling he's going to have the belt this march one way or the other.

 

I really think CM Punk should carry the belt for awhile though.

 

I totally agree that the title really doesn't have to be in there, but... I'm going to say this, and I don't mean anything negative about it. John Cena said he was going to do all he could to have the title on the line, and I would bet money (if I were a betting man) that he is going to have it when they have their match, just like he said he was. I also believe he's going to bring it up when it's obvious he will have it, "I promised you I would have the belt on the line, and here it is!"

 

I don't think Wrestlemania will sell anymore tickets one way or the other. I do believe it sets things up for a "moment" though, if The Rock beats Cena and wins the title. It will mean he has to defend it, and I can see that actually helping ratings on Raw.

[shawn michaels]

WHy the hell is Mark Henry a world champ?? Has WWE lost its mind? Jesus...they gave Christian a 5 days reign, that a one month reign...just to eventually put the belt on...Henry? Dear God...i'm getting sick of the E. And Cena champion again? All that fuzz with the CM Punk storyline and that's how it turned out? Ridiculous.

 

Edit: Why did they turned Daniel Bryan in the jobber of the week? The man won a MITB briefcase? Dear God.

[eayragt]

WHy the hell is Mark Henry a world champ??

 

To give him value. If he'd have lost he'd be back to being almost worthless. Now he's an asset.

 

Edit: Why did they turned Daniel Bryan in the jobber of the week? The man won a MITB briefcase? Dear God.

 

'Cause he's amazing at the role. He's going to have to start winning in the next few months to give him any momentum when he cashes in, especially if it's at 'Mania, but at the moment he's doing an awesome job of putting people over. I'm a huge Bryan fan, but a few months in competitive matches putting people over before the results turn around giving him momentum into a title shot is frankly more than most people thought he would ever get in WWE.

[Nightmare Moon]

Cause Danielson made a name for himself outside of WWE, and take the title off of Orton and give Cena another title reign.

 

*facehoof* and this is why I refuse to watch WWE.

[Carmichael]

The Henry stuff has been really good though, hes been an incredible promo and tbh Punk is as much at fault for that storyline being fumbled as anyone else and Cena is champ because Del Rio is not very good and also because they have 2 weeks between PPV's and because of the short time to build it Hell in a Cell up they needed title changes so they could just book quick rematches

[bigtplaystew]

Yea I'm enjoying MArk Henry right now. I'm curious to see where it goes. Trying not to get my hopes up but I'd love to see Big Show come back only to get beaten by Mark Henry again.

[Carmichael]

I really think they should keep building him strong, keep the title on him till Mania, have him destroy everyone, bring back the undertaker for the PPV before Mania to challenge Henry, have Henry win and then have Taker go for a rematch vs the unbeaten Henry at Mania.

 

I reckon it could be huge

[Carmichael]

The obvious problem is that Henry is so limited in the ring, so the match wouldnt be that great.

[djthefunkchris]

The obvious problem is that Henry is so limited in the ring, so the match wouldnt be that great.

 

They've been covering that up pretty well though, IMO. He can't go like alot of them, but if they continue to have him do slow yet very strong moves, with the way he's able to pull out that "flash" like reflex everynow and then, they could easily hide his in ring limitations. Lots to work with there, if they keep it up.

 

@shawn michaels 82:

 

WHy the hell is Mark Henry a world champ??

Seems Mark Henry has more fans then alot of people thought, and his new momentum is good. He's one of the few "KNOWN" big guys left on the roster that they can depend on to be there every week. Giving him a push, making him a worthy competitor, and making him "awesome" is only going to help whomever beats him down the road... Be it Shaemus, Orton, whomever. Obviously they needed someone like this, and you can't do this with a "nobody" just because someone else feels it would be better. First off, Henry has proven himself to be there through thick and thin... He gives his all no matter if he's jobbing or not. Now he's getting his dues, and lots of people think it's well deserved. A "New" guy in this position wouldn't work no where near as fast.

 

Has WWE lost its mind? Jesus...they gave Christian a 5 days reign, that a one month reign...just to eventually put the belt on...Henry?

 

Christian has always been great in the upper cards, going for the belt. I honestly think he's about to get sucked into this "conspiracy theory" storyline, but even if he doesn't, he is playing his part to perfection. He's a "Whiner" right now, and he's exactly where he should be... Does a great job as a heel and I'd like to see him actually slip down the card to help some of the other guys out.

 

He's one of those types of people you can count on, and I'm sure he's much appreciated and perhaps even responsible for some of these things.

 

Dear God...i'm getting sick of the E. And Cena champion again?

You don't think Cena is a good champion? LOL

All that fuzz with the CM Punk storyline and that's how it turned out? Ridiculous.

Nothing has turned out yet... Punk is in the match for the title again... How is anything ridiculous? Look... Cena is their top guy, you're never going to get rid of that, unless he gets injured or quits. The guy's up there with every other great. The more you hate or love him, the more he's going to be "The Man". Doesn't matter if you say it's good heat or bad heat, he's getting even bigger because of people like you.

 

Why did they turned Daniel Bryan in the jobber of the week? The man won a MITB briefcase? Dear God.

 

Daniel Bryan is NOT Main Event Material for ANY National promotion, anywhere... He wouldn't be Main Event in Japan, Europe, Canada... Anywhere. Most people realise this. I'm most definately sure he realised that before he even committed to them. Most people realise that the MITB win is a set up for him to eventually win the title, and become "workhorse" for the stepladder up the card for WWE that we all know he is capable of being. HE is a "HUGE" asset to the company, in a way like Christian is. He will eventually be able to climb up and down the card with ease, and be a "technical" threat to anyone. But the "Technical" thing is a gimmick much like Mysterio or Sin Cara's amazing gymnastic abilities. With Bryan able to do some of that as well, makes him even more of a threat then the Luchadore's. However, much like them, he will be a "transitional" Main Event champion, at best.

 

I'm not taking anything away from the guy at all. IF I were in the bussiness, he'd be one of my first picks if I could choose anyone I wanted. The reason is because he is incredible at making other's look good... Let me repeat that.... He is an incredible jobber. He can make anyone from any position of the card look good. Just like Christian can. Everyone cannot do that.

 

EDIT: Your almost 30, you should be getting some of this stuff by now. Wrestling is "Entertainment", and people are put in as "characters" for specific roles. IF You like one better then another one, or if you like one "actor" better in their character then another "actor", they are doing their job. For example: IF you like CM Punk or Danial Bryan right now, and feel like they are being cheated for some reason, or miss-used or whatever you think... then the show is doing it's job by getting you invested. It's just like watching any other sitcom, movie, show, etc. Sometimes you will like the stories being told, sometimes they aren't your cup of tea. But in all honesty, this attitude as if you know more then they do, somehow know more then other's do, your fooling no one but yourself. It's no different then an actor you really like, or a comedian you really like, not getting lead roles, or not getting an HBO special. They are still there for you to enjoy. The thing is, the only competition in the Wrestling bussiness with companies that are entertainment based, is how many people like or hate you. If "they" somehow miss the boat on that, then you have a complaint.

 

Your rants to me sound like someone complaining because Freddie killed off a character you related to. It's exactly what would make the movie better. You invest in a character, and care what happens to them. You care about Daniel Bryan, so you care when he has a loss. Nothing wrong with that, that's what your supposed to do, and exactly what WWE hopes you will do.

[Fantabulous]

I have no problem with Punk/Cena at MitB getting five stars because, while the match ALONE might not quite be that good, when you add the match quality to the story told throughout the match and after, it's that good that I have no hesitation in giving it the full five stars. If someone wants to knock points off for the match itself being a little ropey in areas, then I can understand that. I don't agree with it because I think, in this case especially, it's nitpicking when looking at the big picture, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Now, if you think it was worth five stars, great. If not, well, as long as you're not doing so as a reactionary measure to what someone else rated it or you're disagreeing just so you can launch insults at someone because you think they overrated it or you have some other problem with them and just want a reason to go after them personally, then have at it.

[djthefunkchris]

I have no problem with Punk/Cena at MitB getting five stars because, while the match ALONE might not quite be that good, when you add the match quality to the story told throughout the match and after, it's that good that I have no hesitation in giving it the full five stars. If someone wants to knock points off for the match itself being a little ropey in areas, then I can understand that. I don't agree with it because I think, in this case especially, it's nitpicking when looking at the big picture, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Now, if you think it was worth five stars, great. If not, well, as long as you're not doing so as a reactionary measure to what someone else rated it or you're disagreeing just so you can launch insults at someone because you think they overrated it or you have some other problem with them and just want a reason to go after them personally, then have at it.

 

I didn't think it was a five star match, but I thought the storyline involved defiantely was. Since the guy that rated it takes all that into consideration, I agree with him. However, if you were to just go watch the match, and not see anything that happened before it, it wouldn't be no where near as Huge.

 

Now don't get me wrong, the match wasn't "Bad" at all. It just wasn't the best match I've seen either of them in.

[tommyb]

Wrestling is "Entertainment", and people are put in as "characters" for specific roles...You invest in a character, and care what happens to them.

 

Written in relation to something else, but highly relevant to the CM Punk vs John Cena match. The storyline got people so invested in the characters and the outcome of the match, that the 'quality' wrestling match itself was a secondary concern. I think it definitely deserved 5* for the overall package.

[Mr Rager]

When I think back to the Punk/Cena match at MITB, the thing that made it so great for me is that I hadn't found myself so invested in a character and desperately hoping for them to win in years as I was invested in CM Punk that night. Looking back it seems obvious that he was going to stay with him being put in such a massive angle, but on the night there was still a slight part of me which thought that maybe he'd be taking a break so on that night it was much more than just who would end the night as champion - I knew that if CM Punk won the match he'd be going nowhere, so for me it was a case of whether or not my favourite wrestler would be sticking around or taking a break from the business, which made it more exciting for me. The atmosphere in Chicago that night made it even more special as well.

 

Thinking back, I think that the last time I remember being behind a wrestler in a match might be Eddie Guerrero at No Way Out in 2004. With age those kind of moments don't seem to occur so much as a wrestling fan, which is why Punk/Cena is one of my favourite matches in a long time.

[bigtplaystew]

Cena/Punk at MitB was one of the best built main events in recent memory. They told a great story in the ring as well that night and it was really a fantastic match. There were a few mistakes here and there but it's pro wrestling. If you look close enough there are mistakes in a great many matches. When I think about the match I don't think about botched spots. I think about a great performance from two guys and a huge breakout performance from Punk. The angle leading up to it was incredible and Punk's mic work was really cool stuff that had me glued to my television. I loved it.

 

 

 

I had stated before that I wanted Henry to fight the Undertaker at mania and I still do. I just don't think that it would happen as they'd worry about the match quality. Mark Henry's good at what he does, and in a normal PPV a Taker / Henry match would be a quality main event. But it's Wrestlemania, baby. And even though I want to see it, I highly doubt they'd go into mania with that match. They'd look for a more dynamic performer to go against the Undertaker most likely so they can overbook the crap out of the match. I'm really at a loss of as to WHO could be that guy, but I don't think it's Henry.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Henry and Taker already fought at Mania.

[TakerNGN74]

Cena/Punk at MitB was one of the best built main events in recent memory. They told a great story in the ring as well that night and it was really a fantastic match. There were a few mistakes here and there but it's pro wrestling. If you look close enough there are mistakes in a great many matches. When I think about the match I don't think about botched spots. I think about a great performance from two guys and a huge breakout performance from Punk. The angle leading up to it was incredible and Punk's mic work was really cool stuff that had me glued to my television. I loved it.

 

 

 

I had stated before that I wanted Henry to fight the Undertaker at mania and I still do. I just don't think that it would happen as they'd worry about the match quality. Mark Henry's good at what he does, and in a normal PPV a Taker / Henry match would be a quality main event. But it's Wrestlemania, baby. And even though I want to see it, I highly doubt they'd go into mania with that match. They'd look for a more dynamic performer to go against the Undertaker most likely so they can overbook the crap out of the match. I'm really at a loss of as to WHO could be that guy, but I don't think it's Henry.

 

If you want to see Taker vs. Henry it happened at Wrestlemania 22 in a casket match. I was there live to see that match as well as the others on the card that night.

[bigtplaystew]

Henry and Taker already fought at Mania.

 

I'm aware that it's happened. Triple H and Undertaker had fought before at WM17. they still had a meaningful match years later.

 

The point is the way they are billing Henry as this unstoppable monster could provide a compelling match. I DO think it would make a better regular PPV match than it would a WM match in 2012.

 

I doubt it'll happen anyway. I think quite frankly they can and will find a better opponent for Undertaker at WM28. The ideal guy to challenge 20-0 would be Cena but that obviously can't happen. Maybe Punk? Maybe Jericho? I honestly cant think of anyone that would give us that "OMG AMAZING" undertaker match at this year's WM.

[TakerNGN74]

I'm aware that it's happened. Triple H and Undertaker had fought before at WM17. they still had a meaningful match years later.

 

The point is the way they are billing Henry as this unstoppable monster could provide a compelling match. I DO think it would make a better regular PPV match than it would a WM match in 2012.

 

I doubt it'll happen anyway. I think quite frankly they can and will find a better opponent for Undertaker at WM28. The ideal guy to challenge 20-0 would be Cena but that obviously can't happen. Maybe Punk? Maybe Jericho? I honestly cant think of anyone that would give us that "OMG AMAZING" undertaker match at this year's WM.

 

The obvious choice here would be Triple H, have them have a rematch and leading up to it Triple H could say "I was so close last year blah blah blah and I want another shot." I think that is the only possibility for the Undertaker at WM 28 at this point unless they push someone hardcore to wrestle him at WM 28. Plus then Triple H and Taker could be only the second match to have happened three seperate times at Mania which they might do it for that reason alone (Austin/Rock was the first)

 

I would love to see him face Sheamus at mania for instance but that is just me I think that they would have a great match.

 

Also Cena is obviously not a possibility but a while back on a you tube video I saw that Cena said he wanted a shot at the streak at WM 30 in Madison Square Garden which would be a huge match. I for one wouldn't want to see that match because I would be nervous that Cena would actually end the streak which is something that I wouldn't want to see. Plus this might be Taker's last mania if he even has a match at Mania this year because I heard he is a lot worse for ware than the E is letting on right now because if you notice they haven't referenced him in monthes and so that makes me believe that he is worse than he should be. Granted he is old and what not but I do remember reading a report that said that the main reason that Michelle McCool retired was to be with Taker at home because he is in such bad health physically.

[bigtplaystew]

Yea i just wasnt blown away by the Triple H match. I know alot of people really liked it, so I don't want to argue over whether it was a great match or not. To each his own. I was thinking Triple H is a good guy for Taker at WM28 from a commercial standpoint but I personally wouldnt get excited over that.

 

The thing about Micheals rematch was that everyone got all excited about it. It was a no brainer. Both matches were spectacular and memorable. I just dont get that feeling from Triple H's match.

 

I'd probably be excited to see Punk do it but I'm hoping Punk's involved in the title picture at mania.

 

Whatever they do it'll most likely be a very overbooked match like I'd said previously. TheUndertaker has aged and rumor has it he is indeed very banged up.

[sebsy]

Not really a fan of seeing Triple H face Taker again.

 

Needs to be someone who if they were to beat him it would give them a tremendous rub. I don't think anyone will beat him but the person who faces him needs to be someone who could conceivably gain something long term from a win over Taker. HHH wouldn't, he doesn't need to end the streak to get any higher.

 

Punk facing him and beating him could truly put him at the very very top of the tree. Could go with the whole Punk only person to beat him by submission angle in some way maybe.

 

Cena will be around for a long time but doesn't need the ending of the streak.

 

I'd like to see Orton as the last man to face Taker at Mania, reckon it would be a pretty good match, but again I'm not sure he conceivably needs the rub of ending the streak.

 

Jericho, again a good match would be had, but no one gains anything from Jericho ending the streak.

 

Who else is there? They could build someone up I guess, but who?

 

Personally I'd like to see Orton get it, slowly turn more deranged over the year and win the Rumble, have Taker announce Mania will be his last match, Orton comes out and says he wants to end the streak, plays the tweener role like Michaels sort of did with his 2 feuds with Taker. Taker wins and bows out on the grandest stage with the streak in tact.