The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[angeldelayette]

I'm sure more then you and a couple others here want to see it as well, just saying I don't know anyone personally that does.

 

I want Roman to succeed, I think he has a ton of potential. He's just pretty green, and his promo's seem to be getting worse (wish he wasn't talking so much). In ring he can be protected obviously.

 

I was just reading your new USPW diary before catching up here, lol.

 

That's the one thing he doesn't need help with, Roman has the look. He just lacks everywhere else, although he improves steadily in the ring.

 

I think the majority can get behind Roman. The problem isn't Roman, the problem is WWE and ultimately I guess Vince. WWE is taking someone that has had up to great momentum in the past, and killing it by making bad decisions. He isn't ready, and too many people know he isn't ready, and these decisions can put him in the same shoe's Batista had to wear last year (which wasn't Batista's fault).

 

 

I think Reigns has plenty of potential, he's just green. However, your probably right about the fans.

 

Nothing wrong with being his fan. As I said, my problem is with them knowing he isn't ready, and yet book this match anyways.

 

First of all, thank you for reading the USPW diary. Always love to have a reader.

 

That being said, I would argue about whether or not Roman Reigns is that green. He has been around the business his entire life (being part of the Anoa'i family). To me, he doesn't botch moves that I've seen. Or it's a very rare thing if it does happen. He has the look. He's never going to do all the flippy moves that some wrestlers do. He's never going to be a spot monkey. He is what he is. He is a big man wrestler that uses power and power spots and that is enough to make me a fan of his.

 

I do feel bad for Batista last year and for Rey Mysterio (who suffered the brunt of being number 30 in the Royal Rumble last year). The Daniel Bryan movement was really swelling last year and those two suffered because of it.

[White Dolphin]

Wait, people didn't expect this? Really? Did 2011 and 2013 not happen or something?

[Warhawk8492]

Brock Lesnar should no sell Roman Reign's offense and make him look bad on purpose. Since Daniel Bryan is not in the title match I might not even watch Wrestlemania.

[Rayelek]

Personally, I would have rather seen Ziggler than Reigns, but I'm fine with it. It's not the worst outcome they could have come up with. Does anyone know if Bubba Dudley is actually back? That's something I'd actually be excited for after his promo work in TNA. The part at the end where Big Show & Kane were running the ring bored me and also made it a little too clear the direction they were going. It would've been nice if it wasn't so telegraphed. I would've liked to see it come down to Wyatt and Reigns, especially after the showing Wyatt had.

 

Also, does anyone know how it's locked in already for Reigns vs Lesnar at Mania? They've said that, and that means there's no title match at Fast Lane, so I'm wondering what there will be for a Main Event.

[The Final Countdown]

Also, does anyone know how it's locked in already for Reigns vs Lesnar at Mania? They've said that, and that means there's no title match at Fast Lane, so I'm wondering what there will be for a Main Event.

Maybe it'll be something to set up Daniel Bryan's WM midcard match with Sheamus they're so eager to have.

[Warhawk8492]

Just make it a triple threat with Reigns, Lesnar and Bryan.

[The Final Countdown]

The crowd in Philadelphia is definitely not representative of a typical WWE crowd. I went to TNA Bound For Glory in 2011 in Philadelphia so I saw the fans that are there. They are a more hardcore smark type segment, which is why ECW got so popular there. They are anti-establishment so anyone who they see as having the backing of the McMahon's is going to be booed by them simply on principle.

Absolutely agree. That's why I said the crowd reaction should have been obvious. But they're likely going to run into the same problem at Mania, which draws a smark heavy crowd also. It's the smarks who fly in for Mania weekend. It was them who rebelled and chanted for DB repeatedly after he got jobbed out to Sheamus in 15 seconds or whatever it was, which was the night Bryan became a star quite by accident IMO.

[Dawn]

Brock Lesnar should no sell Roman Reign's offense and make him look bad on purpose. Since Daniel Bryan is not in the title match I might not even watch Wrestlemania.

 

Ok man, we all know how you hate Roman Reigns, you don't need to get out of line here.

[Dawn]

Just make it a triple threat with Reigns, Lesnar and Bryan.

 

That would be a good option. It wouldn't stop the fact that Reigns is winning, though. Rollins might cash-in post-match.

[GhostDogg]

I guess I gotta be the adult voice in the room...

 

Ok.. am I happy with Reigns being the winner. No. He is pretty much being Batista 2.0 at this point. I mean there are alot of people who I think should have won. Ziggler, Ambrose, even Wyatt. But people are missing the point...

 

Why did Reigns win? The same reason why Batista won LAST year and why Cena get getting so much hate for being shoved down our throats. Its Vince and Creative... I mean I am disappointed about RR winning, but I am not going to OPENLY HATE HIM FOR IT. He is doing a job, just like Cena does a job, Bryan does a job and so on and so forth. I am not going to lie, RR is NOT ready for the Main event. Because every one knows, that you have to Wrestle AT LEAST a 30 minute match. And bottom line, he needs to get BETTER. Am I saying it cant happen? I am not saying that but he has ALOT of work to do.

 

And as far as canceling the network? I am not. I am keeping it for 2 reasons. The old shows and PPV's and NXT. But VINCE...you need to wake up. You are losing fans and customers as you speak. And this isnt the 80's anymore. I mean you may run the company, but your FANS can MAKE YOU or BREAK YOU.

 

Remarks Complete

 

**Drops Mic**

[smurphy1014]

The problem is Vince still has final say over everything Raw/Smackdown related. Until Vince fully steps away we will get who he wants to see. Period.

[Warhawk8492]

That would be a good option. It wouldn't stop the fact that Reigns is winning, though. Rollins might cash-in post-match.

 

Have Bryan win it, he deserves it more.

[BHK1978]

Absolutely agree. That's why I said the crowd reaction should have been obvious. But they're likely going to run into the same problem at Mania, which draws a smark heavy crowd also. It's the smarks who fly in for Mania weekend. It was them who rebelled and chanted for DB repeatedly after he got jobbed out to Sheamus in 15 seconds or whatever it was, which was the night Bryan became a star quite by accident IMO.

 

 

Yes and no. The crowd reaction as you said should be obvious because we are talking about the Philly fans here. You know the same folks that boo and threw ice balls at Santa Claus, booed one of their best baseball players in Mike Schmidt, and cheered when they thought that Michael Irvin could be paralyzed.

 

That being said, I do think a good portion of the WWE Universe (Boy do I hate using that term, I hate it when teams use that like the Red Sox Nation but I digress) does want to see Bryan in the main event at Mania. Just my opinion but I honestly think it is true.

 

As for me, well I am not going to be getting Mania no matter what the matches are, so I could personally care less who is in the main event. Granted I am not sure Roman is ready for the big time yet. To be the "face of the WWE" (That is another term I hate) you have to be able to talk and in some cases you have to be able to talk for damn near twenty minutes every Monday night during the opening segment and Roman has proven that he is not able to do that yet.

[hellboy2]

I am hoping that each year is the same demanding Daniel Bryan win sort of like an anti-streak of him never winning

 

Then when he does win, the crowd will go on about how the streak should never be broken with Daniel Bryan not winning the Rumble

 

also never realized how much i dislike the word streak including looking,typing and hearing

[Moe Hunter]

That being said, I would argue about whether or not Roman Reigns is that green. He has been around the business his entire life (being part of the Anoa'i family). To me, he doesn't botch moves that I've seen. Or it's a very rare thing if it does happen. He has the look. He's never going to do all the flippy moves that some wrestlers do. He's never going to be a spot monkey. He is what he is. He is a big man wrestler that uses power and power spots and that is enough to make me a fan of his.

 

You seem to be pretty green yourself if you think that the quality of a wrestler is just what moves and spots they do.

 

He can't put together a good singles match, certainly not at Main Event level. He doesn't have the experience or the psychology necessary. He also can barely cut a promo to save his life.

 

It's easy to like Roman Reigns when he's in a multi-man match and just gets to come in and hit some Spears - he has a nice comeback sequence and generates some big moments. But the Main Event of Wrestlemania? That's gonna be a poor showing.

 

Ziggler, Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose - any of those guys are hot enough right now to push, and are all far more capable than Reigns in every way. Cesaro could put on the match of century, but Vince can't stop crapping all over him.

[dvdWarrior]

I would have bet the farm on Daniel Bryan winning. I mean, I know all signs pointed to Reigns winning, but I figured that ... well, ever since 'suffering succatash'.... that Reigns' momentum was on the downslide. I know his overall coolness took a definite hit for me. With Daniel Bryan's big return from injury and his popularity and all....

 

He just really... REALLY... seemed like the right guy to win it for me.

 

I did kind of enjoy the whole #cancelWWEnetwork thing as a protest, (no, I did not participate in it), but I really hope the Network doesn't take too big of a hit. I can take 2015 or leave it, but I gots to be able to watch my 80s and 90s.

 

[daulten6]

As angry as I am about Reigns and winning and Bryan not, this rumble was booked so bad anyways..

 

 

Two near fifty year olds making the final three and being treated bigger stars than anyone except Reigns.

 

All the fan favorites like Ambrose and Ziggler got thrown out like freaking rags. Even Wyatt who dominated a big part of the match got treated the same way.

 

Bryan, the only other person expected to win, was used as a throwaway elimination half way through with no tension or build up.

 

 

 

Not even The Rock could save Reigns from the booing..

[Minarin]

I'm not sure but is this the "weakest" winner of the rumble ever. Trying to think off the top of my head where a Rumble winner had help from someone outside the match. Actually just remembered 1999, maybe Vince wants Reigns compared to himself.

 

As soon as Ziggler was gone you knew only Reigns would win so I just skipped to the end.

 

I'm happy Kane got the most eliminations of all time, he does deserve some credit.

 

After Bryan went, I think only Ziggler or Ambrose winning might have saved the event but thats asking too much from Vince.

 

To the person who made the remark about Vince thinking its the 80's. Its funny but I think the crowd would have done the same if Hogan was eliminated like that.

 

To end on some good notes I did like the suprises, DDP looked good for his age, Bubba was a welcome return but didn't last long enough. Boogeyman did what he needed.

[D-Lyrium]

I think the main problem with Reigns is that he HAD to win, creatively. I mean, the guy is going to be a star whether we like it or not (personally I like it, I really like it), and you can't be a 'star' without winning the title at some point.

 

These days one does not simply 'earn' a title shot. You're not allowed a title shot unless:

- You've won the Rumble

- You've won Money in the Bank

- You're a former champion, or a big star from the days before this rule was enforced.

 

Reigns basically had two options, the Rumble or MitB. Since his buddy Rollins won MITB last year, the Rumble seemed the better option I guess. I don't think he's ready, yet. Needed maybe another year, have him win the 2016 Rumble. But as I said, creatively they backed themselves into a corner where he had to win, or he'd stall and possibly end up going nowhere at all.

 

Daniel Bryan winning the Rumble could 100% not happen. He had his Wrestlemania moment last year. He won the title at Wrestlemania for heaven's sake. He became the first guy in forever to win the title match at WM without being the current champion or that year's Rumble winner - hell, he didn't even have the MitB cash-in that year. I'm not saying he can't ever win the Rumble because he won the title at Wrestlemania, but the very next year would be pushing it. Wait until he NEEDS a bit of a boost.

 

Having Bryan win the Rumble this year would've been stupid.

 

And with DB out of the picture, who else would you rather have won it?

 

Other than Cesaro, obvs.

 

 

 

As for the rest of the show (didn't see it myself), was the triple threat title match as good as I've heard it was? Phrases like "5*" and "MOTYC" are being thrown around by friends that I previously didn't think cared, but also by friends that 100% despise everything John Cena does.

[kipfizh]

Seems to me that the Rumble used to be the platform on which to elevate a young star in an unpredictable way, and now that job goes to MITB - that's where the surprises can happen that break a newcomer into the upper echelons. The Rumble itself, which I really think should do the same thing, has become very predictable over the last few years, with the winner being obvious from the month building up to it.

 

This year, Show and Kane being there at the end was a massive part of the problem. Everyone knows they are both there for the same reason - to clear the ring when there are too many in there, and to provide someone else with an impressive elimination. Gatekeepers like them are never going to win the thing.

 

Having them in the final four was nuts, as it removed any doubt as to who would win - doubt that could have remained if Ziggler/Cesaro/Ambrose were alongside Reigns at the end instead. Sure, you'd still think Reigns would win, but you wouldn't be 100%. Heck, there was a year where you wondered if Santino could win the thing - more people gave that a credible chance when he was there at the end than gave Show/Kane the same thought.

 

And now they have the same problem as last year. Lesnar is getting pops, but they may fade as he is likely bowing out after WM, and Reigns is not going to be the 'toppling hero' he was planned to be. This is going to take some rescuing.

[daulten6]

 

 

As for the rest of the show (didn't see it myself), was the triple threat title match as good as I've heard it was? Phrases like "5*" and "MOTYC" are being thrown around by friends that I previously didn't think cared, but also by friends that 100% despise everything John Cena does.

 

I don't know about five stars, but it was for sure a MOTYC

[Nathers7]

The triple threat was a MOTYC IMO, all three played their part in a great match.

 

Saw this being touted around:

 

"Dave mentioned in the WO show tonight that WWE indeed had Bryan go out early since they thought it would let the crowd get the booing out of their system. Also they expected there to be a backlash but not as vociferous as what happened. So despite what happened last year, they apparently were completely shocked at their handpicked choice being soundly rejected by the crowd again. Also Rock was pretty pissed off at changes that were made and his annoyed reaction to the crowd booing was pretty much a shoot."

 

They've effectively wrecked Reigns as a face. 95% of the crowd will cheer for Lesnar at Mania if that's what they go with.

[Derek B]

I watched the show live last night and enjoyed most of it. The Triple Threat match was awesome as I knew it was going to be... though a lot less extra curricular activity than I would have expected, though that was welcome too. Seth Rollins put in a career making performance, Lesnar looked like an unstoppable monster and Cena continued to be Cena (which I'm fine with).

 

And now I'm looking forward to the unstoppable, unbeatable force of Brock Lesnar come up against the guy who for more than two years has been booked as one of the hardest hitting, toughest to beat individuals in the world. Within the WWE Universe, it's the two baddest men on the roster squaring off for the biggest prize in the business. I'm excited to see that, I don't think either guy gets enough credit for what they can do, the same way that Ryack gets a lot of heat for being a similar kind of guy. They may not be smark friendly in terms of style, but they are marketable and successful.

 

As for the Royal Rumble match itself... well, I thought it was pretty badly booked just as everyone else has. Some fun surprise entrants, I hope Bubba Ray is back because he was doing great in TNA and I think he could have a lot of fun with a singles run in WWE too. The Boogeyman was fun to see, the guy is entertaining as hell as long as he's only around on rare occasions. DIAMOND CUTTERS!

 

The rest of the show was passable stuff. Nothing blew me away, nothing sucked either. I'll be rewatching the title match again today because it was so much fun.

 

As for Wrestlemania... am I the only person who thinks that we're going to have Cena vs Ziggler on the show? Ziggler has been stealing the show and fighting behind Cena since before Survivor Series. Almost every time I see Ziggler on screen he's either being told something is Cena's fault OR he's saying something about Cena. It feels like Ziggler is going to be attempting to come out of Cena's shadow soon... whether it be heel or face, I think it will be a fun program.

 

Feels more likely that we'll be seeing something with Rusev and Rock. Every time Rock comes back he somehow ends up with his nose in Rusev's business. It's not something I would have booked myself, but it could be a lot of fun.

 

Random thought of the Day: While people might not like Reigns going over, I'm a fan of the WWE putting new guys in Wrestlemania main events. Last year Daniel Bryan was the first new guy in the main event for a long time... this year Reigns gets a shot. And next year we could have one of Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rusev, Ziggler, Harper (maybe)... it's good to see some young talents coming through, I just hope the WWE actually follow through on the potential they have on the roster.

[Anderz]

I'll preface this by saying that I stopped watching Raw every week about a year ago (and Smackdown probably somewhere in 2013) because it's just not that good any more. Sure the actual matches are probably better than ever, but as a show Raw is far too long and Smackdown had become Raw rematches or matches that would be redone the following Monday. Nothing interests me - I'll catch the highlights or maybe watch This Week in WWE; but thats it. I have however, continued watching PPVs and for the large part they've been perfectly fine viewing - some really good promising bits; some naff - but largely I've been entertained.

 

so onto the Rumble;

 

I really like this show up until about halfway through the main event.

 

From the all tag team undercard; I enjoyed the pre-show Tag match; I enjoyed the Ascension/Outlaws; heck I enjoyed the Divas; and the Tag titles was good because the Usos are brilliant and the Miz/Mizdow schtick hasnt completely run its course yet.

 

The three-way was perfect; I couldnt have imagined anything better. The young upstart heel; the ageing superhero babyface and the unstoppable tweener monster who can take everything and still kick your ass.

 

Brock Lesnar is fantastic. I don't care if he only work 5 shows a year - keep the belt on him; his title matches are awesome. Cena and Rollins deserve equal credit for this match as they played their roles perfectly. I can't say enough good things about the match.

 

And then the Rumble; it started out great - Bubba returning was a genuine surprise and it was fun to see. Wyatt having his showcase run was great - just when I thought people were souring on him; he does this and it's great; for me he's right back where he was pre-Mania last year.

 

The match took a turn for the worse when Bryan went out; over nothing. Wyatt just shoulder blocked him and that was it. Completely flat. I don't care that he didnt win it. But; this was just. Well crap. Have Rusev brutalise him and take him out and lead to a Mania match; I assume we'll build to a Bray vs Bryan Mania match now (I'll be pissed if we dont) and it'll be great but this moment could've been much better. Have Bryan get taken out in the Kane/Show takeover. Something. Anything would've been better than a flat, nothing elimination that nearly went unnoticed. He's the unbeaten Champion whos just come back from 9 months on the shelf and we dont even get a moment for his elimination. Terrible.

 

The rest of the booking of the match just had nothing for me. The crowd crapped on everything. Which isn't surprising. It isn't fair either; but give them a reason not to crap of everything. Don't just do something you know will piss everyone off; but do it early and expect people to forget before the big ending you want.

 

Wyatt's run fizzled out and he got eliminated like he was Titus O'Neil or someone. Another nothing elimination. Ziggler. Well what happened there? Huge push at Survivor Series and his Rumble was what exactly? Bad News? Ambrose? All really just were bodies in there just to eliminate.

 

I don't hate the Kane/Show domination to clear people out - but don't have them eliminate everyone the fans are going to care about. Why shit on Ziggler and Wyatt like that? Have them clear the midcard guys like Big E/Swagger/Titus and the like - then have Ziggler or Reigns take them out.

 

The buzz around Reigns has fizzled since his injury; so why shoehorn him in here. If you don't want to push Bryan or Ziggler or someone the fans are clearly behind and will clearly get behind against Lesnar - give the win to Rusev or something. Have the evil Russian win the damn thing. You dont have to have Rusev vs Lesnar if you dont want to - it gives you the chance to mess around with the main event and actaully get into a position where you have a match you want and the fans want. The crowds at TV seem more 'under control' than on PPV so use that to your advantage. Now you've got this big babyface on the rampage that not even The Rock can get pops for. That moment has been crapped on forever now. Reigns will struggle to get back from it.

 

So for me, the best case scenario here is that Lesnar isnt leaving after Mania and you keep the strap on him.

 

I didnt mean to rant for this long; as I really liked 2 hr 15 mins of this show; and I've come across sounding like I hated it.

[christmas_ape]

That being said, I would argue about whether or not Roman Reigns is that green. He has been around the business his entire life (being part of the Anoa'i family). To me, he doesn't botch moves that I've seen. Or it's a very rare thing if it does happen. He has the look. He's never going to do all the flippy moves that some wrestlers do. He's never going to be a spot monkey. He is what he is. He is a big man wrestler that uses power and power spots and that is enough to make me a fan of his.

 

Him not being a spot monkey means nothing. There are very few, if any, spot monkeys in WWE. It's painfully obvious he's green. I wouldn't even mind that, I do like him, but his character/promos are already watered down and bland. I don't want to seem like I'm on the Reigns-hate bandwagon. But I also hate the view that if you don't like Roman Reigns matches it must be because you only like Ring of Honor style matches. I don't dislike Roman because he's a big powerful wrestler that doesn't do crazy moves, I dislike him (in the spot he's in) because he's simply not at that level yet. Comparing him to someone like Lesnar says it all. I also disagree that Reigns is much more believable than Bryan, he really isn't that big of a guy whereas at least Bryan has his submission/mma-ish style.

 

 

My main issue with the whole Rumble was Kane and Big Show. It was baffling. The way they nonchalantly just tossed Wyatt, Ambrose, Ziggler out was crazy booking. They could have built up feuds, or at least made memorable moments. As much as I love Kane and liked Big Show 10 years ago.. to position them as two of your top heels when they have so much young talent... well I just don't get.

 

It's a shame that it will overshadow how good that triple threat match was, everyone in it was great and it all came together so well. Happy for Rollins to be able to truly prove he's long term main event material. The thing with this Lesnar push is it's impossible to know how I really feel about it until hindsight can kick in and we see where it leads to but at the moment I absolutely love it. He's been built up to be so unique and he's the perfect man for the role. If he had any true desire to be so he would be one of the greatest of all time.