The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Stennick]

So Danielson is booked for EVOLVE and DGUSA the next night that didn't take long. If possible this guy might be getting paid MORE for that buzz he has. You know internet fans are going to be lined up to get a glimpse of Daniels after all this crap.

[Teh_Showtime]

doesnt matter, he will still wrestle and probably even in the WWE after this boils over. It's obvious that they respect him but he was just caught red handed.

[GDE71]

I read somewhere that it wasn't the Benoit choking thing being the reason, but what he did wasn't PG. They are really trying to protect and keep the PG as it means more $$$ for WWE.

[Hyde Hill]

 

 

 

Defining comment from one of them that basically caused me to dismiss their opinion in this area altogether. When Hogan & Bischoff took over TNA: "Maybe now they'll do more stuff outside the ring cuz their people sure can't wrestle." "Yeah, you know they have to be lame when their champion steals the finisher from a DIVA." Now, I have my own beefs with TNA but that....that basically ended all conversation on wrestling. I won't even broach the subject with them anymore (besides the multitude of times they text or email me asking me for TEW tips. Apparently I was wrong, running SWF isn't idiotproof).

 

 

 

 

I hope you set them straight there. I know you don't/didn't find TNA recomandable but I so hate MichTaker McRippingoffTNAiscool for stuff like that. And eventhough AJ does not mind her doing it, badly, it still pisses me off. Her response of it is just a move is also bs. Lets have her do the Tombstone Piledriver next time and let her see if Mark is happy.

[fatallylost]

Just to add onto the Danielson firing being a total work.

 

He will be wrestling at PWG's 7th Anniversary show July 30th.

[1234]

Bryan looks like he will be busy, PWG, DG USA and Evolve have already announced him as returning...now hopefully he will return to ROH. And then return to WWE in a few months and kick Cena's f*****g head in, again.

[djthefunkchris]

Well, yes, we could go point by point and find varying examples of just 'terrible.'

 

But overall what I'm trying to say is that peope who hyperanalyze the WWE are missing the point. THEY are not the target audience.

 

Net fans criticizing the WWE is the wrestling equivalent of listening to bubble gum pop music and criticizing the lyrics.

 

I have a better analogy, at least to me or from my point of view.

 

As you know I used to DJ quite often, and I remember there was always some "other" dj that was younger, or was determined to proove themselves better.... why? So they could work on the night I built up. I built it up from scratch (very few people to start with, built up to as many people the club could hold). They didn't want Saturday, they wanted Friday (the night I built). They have "better/Newer" Music then me (not true, but they actually believed this).

 

Compare that to some statements that were made "If TNA and WWE switched channels" etc... giving TNA an audience that is already made... Would it work? Yes, for about two weeks.

 

I finally get fed up with management, leave the club and let these "better/newer/younger" guys take over Friday night. Within' two weeks major fights broke out, within' two months only a couple dozen people even bothered showing up...

 

Meanwhile at a different club I went to, that had been dead for 10 years before I stepped in, asked me to play Thursday through Sunday.... Biggest crowd ended up on Sunday (My OLDSCHOOL NIGHT), and I built both Friday and Saturday up about the same as it was at the last club before I left. Even thursdays ended up being good.

 

Now my bigger point: Yes, I play older music in general during peak hours... Not older as in years older, but a few months, current ranked music instead of the newer stuff that just come out. I have both, and I put in the newer stuff earlier in the night, to see how it goes over. When I feel the time is right it becomes part of my "Main" set. If it never catch's, I never put it in there. Some claim that they know about "so much more music out there" but in all actuallity, they don't have 1/10th the music I do, and I have 90% of what they have. So it comes down to an opinion more then anything. Of course at younger ages, your going to like the and want to here the "underground" stuff that hasn't made it on the mainstream radio stations yet, but in all actuallity your a minority in the club (21 to 25 yo). The rest of the club wants to here their older favorites as well as their new favorites, and most of the newer stuff is going to be stuff proven to work already (meaning not just released last week).

 

Going back to WWE/TNA/ROH or anyone else, your looking at bassically the same thing. This company does this, they are fresher, they aren't as stale, etc... if only they were able to have a Night like WWE has (forget that WWE BUILT THAT THEMSELVES). Even WWE messed up in the past like this, taking over a time slot that I believe Georgia Championship Wrestling was on, and calling it WWF championship Wrestling. We all hated THAT show, as it was trying to be the other, didn't go over, didn't work very well, etc. That actually leads up to Turner, etc.. but that's another story.

 

As usual, Peter is right on target.

/nod.

And WOW do I think you'd be wrong. Or at least incredibly disappointed.

 

For all of it's criticisms, the E has been the industry standard since the early 80s.

 

They took over the market during the Rock n Wrestling Era despite the fact that their in-ring product was honestly not that great for the most part..definitely not what net fans would look at today as being 'quality'

 

The Attitude Era was based more on characters than ring work (ironically the WCW's greatest success was also based more on characters and names than ringwork, although they did a great job of blending things)

 

And today, they draw far more fans than other companies despite formulaic and largely predictable matches.

 

I think net fans should realize that - as crazy as it sounds - most people DON"T watch wrestling for the actual ..y'know...wrestling. There's a segment of the audience that does...but most people want the soap opera.

 

That's it.

 

 

 

Even if it IS pandering to the lowest common denominator, who cares? It works. They are a publicly traded company with a responsibility to generate profits, not to please wrestling nerds.

 

I think kayfabe is an impossible dream, especially with the advent of MMA.

Even going back 40 years, Kafabe may not have been a term everyone was "up on", but as far as people thinking it was real or not, really.... I can speak for up to 30 years ago... and NO, we didn't. Not the majority by any means. The people that watched Wrestling, of course some of them might have believed more then the people that didn't watch, but that's true today, even with it being common knowledge.

 

Well Peter you are ignoring the kind of cyclical effect that the WWE/F's dominance has had over the long amount of years as to what "wrestling" fans want as what the E gives is perceived as to be what wrestling is and vice versa. The only time they did a true change in formula and product was when they where realistically challenged.

 

That same problem would also be one of the things that would have them win the ratings etc for quite a while if Linsolv's plan would be implemented.

 

WWE/F = wrestling = WWE/F = wrestling ad nauseam.

 

I also do not think that the most on these boards want or expect the WWE to become a niche entertainment product like let's say Firefly, but would like it to be more like say X-Files or at least Friends and not the Power Rangers Power Hour.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but Power Rangers is what it has been for-ever. People like Hogan and Andre, Steamboat, Flair, etc.. They all felt like that back then as well as much as today.

 

I would tune out if it was Friends... X-Files is alright as long as it's not the whole show. Give me the over-the top gimmicks/characters and give me some silly storylines that make some sense, and I'll be happier then an episode of Friends would ever do for me. It's wrestling, it's not real, but it's not supposed to be "wimpy" either.

[Linsolv]

You're right. When you're right, you're right, and in this case you're right.

 

Almost. WWE built up their empire in a time when pro wrestling wasn't fake, and to my knowledge wasn't the butt end of a joke. I'm no expert, but I think it'd be fair to say that they had a somewhat easier road to success than a TNA or an ROH.

 

Now, TNA has their national cable show that they're still dropping the ball with, and I guess you could argue that ROH has their chance with HD Net. But when my mother tells me the main event on RAW because she was watching the US Open and happened to see the commercial for it 10 times, that's really not the same as having a premium channel with a weekly show and no real advertising.

 

On the other hand, iMPACT is pretty solidly advertised and nobody watches it because they keep dropping the ball with good workers and [potentially] good storylines.

[juggaloninjalee]

The WWE or TNA need Paul Heyman to book for them. If he was booking either one of them we would have great wrestling and storylines!

[Tha Black Phenom]

we should start a group

 

Fans Against PG!

 

...yeah, good luck with that

 

Is it just me or is this whole story line beginning to reek of WCW? People being fired in reality, people being fired in kayfabe, the fans not being completely sure the company isn't trying to run an elaborate work on everyone, stupid car stunts, bad acting, bad writing, etc.

 

It must be just you. Even IF as many people appreciated an angle in WCW which caught one's eye, IWC or casual fan, and did something which we were intently waiting to find the outcome, it's a bit unfair since we know the result of those turds of storyline outcomes. The chapter isn't even closed on this one. And bad acting in a wrestling show... hardly noteworthy, now is it.

 

Would you prefer the usual route of WWE booking either the 'predictable' storylines which aren't really predictable in reality because everyone in the IWC is gushing out loads of potential outcomes weeks in advance

 

or the storylines WWE actually gets to slam a twist on to fool the audience, in which in turn some folks in the IWC will whine about because it's not what they expected/not their cup of tea?

 

 

Some folks in the IWC are just unable to sit down, and appreciate what is given to them - fair enough if you don't like a lot of it. It's not like you have to or anything. Just don't throw everything the WWE throws our way away like used toys back in the toybox. And about these people I seen posting earlier that we're "trying to get back in the WWE" but because of recent events couldn't... if one guy - as awesome as he is, I got a lot of love for D to the B - deters you from keeping onto probably the hottest angle so far in the year, then you're not really trying to get back in. I mean hell, I see some people dismiss the angle 30 minutes into the show, of course I didn't expect otherwise though.

 

That being said, I was disappointed that the locker room somewhat emptied to save Cena and chase off the NXT rookies as it just seemed a lazy throwback to the old WCW/ECW Invasion angle. I was hoping there'd be some reason as to why Cena, Punk & co were left to the wolves last week... pros froze backstage watching, heels felt Cena had it coming to him, Orton decided it "wasn't his fight", Mark Henry was busy eating muffins, whatever. Instead if just sticks out as a loophole in the story that creative weren't bothered about covering, which is a shame considering they pretty effectively signed Danielson out of the story.

 

Beyond that, although vehicular assualts are hardly new ground in wrestling, it did leave a decent hook for the ppv and the continuation of the angle. Plus Barrett further sold himself as an effective leader of the group.

 

This is another problem. People constantly comparing to things of the past. I must be one of the few who hasn't compared this to the Invasion angle, at all. It's something new, and different. I won't say the word 'exciting' yet, don't know where it takes us. But let's leave the old stuff out for once. Anything groundbreaking the WWE does forever on will be compared to some degree to X angle we saw back in our heyday. It's kinda unfair to them, to a certain extent you should see WWE has made full circle.

[Slim Jim]

Fans Against PG!

 

FAP? Well, I guess that fits the non-PG mantra.

[sebsplex]

This is another problem. People constantly comparing to things of the past. I must be one of the few who hasn't compared this to the Invasion angle, at all. It's something new, and different. I won't say the word 'exciting' yet, don't know where it takes us. But let's leave the old stuff out for once. Anything groundbreaking the WWE does forever on will be compared to some degree to X angle we saw back in our heyday. It's kinda unfair to them, to a certain extent you should see WWE has made full circle.

 

I didn't compare the whole angle, I compared one segment - various wrestlers defending the RAW turf and assisting Cena when nobody bothered to the previous week when the NXT rookies trashed the ring. It felt like the WWE just plugged in a segment from the old Invasion angle instead of (as I would have preferred) built on or provided some explanation for why nobody from the back intervened last week. It felt very out of place. I don't find it unfair on the WWE to call them on brazenly skipping over loopholes in a story.

[Self]

Sure, nobody came to save Cena the week before, but how many of them were even in the building? If I were a professional fighter, I'm probably not going to stick around much longer once my fight was over. Shower. Change. Get some medical attention, then hit the bars to get my celebratory drink on (hey, it's my fantasy, so I get to win). So I don't think it's that odd nobody came to save Cena. They'd already gone home.

 

Of course, this is all 'in storyline' stuff, and they could have mentioned it I guess.

[crownsy]

I didn't compare the whole angle, I compared one segment - various wrestlers defending the RAW turf and assisting Cena when nobody bothered to the previous week when the NXT rookies trashed the ring. It felt like the WWE just plugged in a segment from the old Invasion angle instead of (as I would have preferred) built on or provided some explanation for why nobody from the back intervened last week. It felt very out of place. I don't find it unfair on the WWE to call them on brazenly skipping over loopholes in a story.

 

Except that, since the angle is just beginning, you have no idea whether they will address it yet or not.

 

Thats why I let angles get rolling before I start to judge.

[d_w_w]

It pains me to see professional wrestlers referred to as professional fighters.

 

Aren't the catchphrases "WWE superstars" and "sports entertainment" these days? And for the most part, they don't seem to refer to themselves as "fighters", they think of themselves as "wrestlers", yes? Some might say that this is a meaningless distinction (but those people would be wrong). This is why the typical Cena-esque promo that says "[current feuding partner] Oh, this isn't going to be a wrestling match and I'm not going to try to pin you or win by count out, this is going to be a fight and I'm going to beat you until I'm good and satisfied!" is supposedly meaningful.

 

A fight, in the context of kayfabe professional wrestling, is more violent, more serious, and generally uglier than a wrestling match.

 

Not to discredit your response though. I think all of what you said holds true and is pretty much how I see things. WWE superstar A shows up, performs, leaves. NXT folks trash the set, choke people with ties, etc. WWE superstar A would potentially like to help, but is too busy talking to a cute redhead at the bar down the street.

[sebsplex]

Sure, nobody came to save Cena the week before, but how many of them were even in the building? If I were a professional fighter, I'm probably not going to stick around much longer once my fight was over. Shower. Change. Get some medical attention, then hit the bars to get my celebratory drink on (hey, it's my fantasy, so I get to win). So I don't think it's that odd nobody came to save Cena. They'd already gone home.

 

Of course, this is all 'in storyline' stuff, and they could have mentioned it I guess.

 

It's a minor point from a wider post numerous pages back. I'm digging the angle, just eh, I have issues when it comes to angles/segments where wrestlers seem to abandon their usual characters. It's a bit like the TNA Ranking segment a couple of weeks ago where all the wrestlers lined up in suits including the violently unstable Samoa Joe who just stood there passively. I like there to be a reason. It's hardly a gamebreaker, but not even Bret Hart the RAW GM stuck his head out from behind the curtain last week - seems a big swing to staunch defense of turf this week. Tbh if Cole had had a throwaway line like "we could have done with these guys last week", that would have done, just no-selling it seemed strange. I guess it's just me, but one of the first things I thought when the cavalry charged in was during that segment - where were these guys last week? On the flipside, it was a nice touch how they addressed Sheamus getting involved.

 

Not to discredit your response though. I think all of what you said holds true and is pretty much how I see things. WWE superstar A shows up, performs, leaves. NXT folks trash the set, choke people with ties, etc. WWE superstar A would potentially like to help, but is too busy talking to a cute redhead at the bar down the street.

 

That's why in TEW you should always set your backstage rules to insure that performers remain on premises for the duration of the show... you never know when you might need them.

[Self]

It pains me to see professional wrestlers referred to as professional fighters.

 

Aren't the catchphrases "WWE superstars" and "sports entertainment" these days? And for the most part, they don't seem to refer to themselves as "fighters", they think of themselves as "wrestlers", yes? Some might say that this is a meaningless distinction (but those people would be wrong). This is why the typical Cena-esque promo that says "[current feuding partner] Oh, this isn't going to be a wrestling match and I'm not going to try to pin you or win by count out, this is going to be a fight and I'm going to beat you until I'm good and satisfied!" is supposedly meaningful.

 

A fight, in the context of kayfabe professional wrestling, is more violent, more serious, and generally uglier than a wrestling match.

 

Not to discredit your response though. I think all of what you said holds true and is pretty much how I see things. WWE superstar A shows up, performs, leaves. NXT folks trash the set, choke people with ties, etc. WWE superstar A would potentially like to help, but is too busy talking to a cute redhead at the bar down the street.

 

I tend to use 'fighter' as a way to differentiate between wrestling performers and wrestling characters. The term 'wrestler' to me has become on the level of 'actor' or 'stuntman', describing the performer, not the role. So I'll often use 'fighter' instead to really make clear I'm talking about the kayfabe character.

 

Although I will say that to me 'fighter' is a correct term to some extent. In kayfabe, wrestling is a fighting style, akin to (yet fictionally vastly superior to) Muay Thia, BJJ etc. They fight. They're fighters.

 

I actually really dislike the whole "This isn't going to be a wrestling match, this is going to be a fight" escalation. Not entirely sure why. Perhaps I think it devalues or exposes 'wrestling'. Or perhaps because in execution there's little difference between the two. Perhaps because I already consider wrestling matches to be fights. I don't know, always bothered me.

[sebsplex]

Except that, since the angle is just beginning, you have no idea whether they will address it yet or not.

 

Thats why I let angles get rolling before I start to judge.

 

Except that, it was a comment on this week's show. They didn't address it this week, that seemed strange, thus why I commented on it.

[LoganRodzen]

I thought this was interesting...

 

Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer asked Batista why he left WWE. Batista said he was sick and tired of WWE's direction and had to get out. He said that it wasn't the kind of wrestling he grew up watching and wasn't the product that he had always enjoyed.

 

So obviously Batista was pissed about how his Last Man Standing match with John Cena ended just like I was. The duct tape around the ring post was the dumbest wrestling finish I've ever seen. That's not me being over dramatic either - I thought it was the worst booking WWE has ever done.

[Jaysin]

I thought this was interesting...

 

 

 

So obviously Batista was pissed about how his Last Man Standing match with John Cena ended just like I was. The duct tape around the ring post was the dumbest wrestling finish I've ever seen. That's not me being over dramatic either - I thought it was the worst booking WWE has ever done.

 

In my opinion the worst booking WWE has ever done was a few years ago it was Orton facing Cena for the title ON A PAY PER VIEW, and around 7 minutes into the match gets himself intentionally DQ'ed. I was so mad that I wasted my money on that garbage.

 

If it wasn't for MVP and Matt Hardy vs Deuce n Domino, Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch vs London and Kendrick, and CM Punk vs Elijah Burke that PPV would have been a total waste.

[LoganRodzen]

In my opinion the worst booking WWE has ever done was a few years ago it was Orton facing Cena for the title ON A PAY PER VIEW, and around 7 minutes into the match gets himself intentionally DQ'ed. I was so mad that I wasted my money on that garbage.

 

If it wasn't for MVP and Matt Hardy vs Deuce n Domino, Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch vs London and Kendrick, and CM Punk vs Elijah Burke that PPV would have been a total waste.

 

I didn't see that show but I can't say I'm surprised. WWE has always used the "excuse" that you'll never go home upset after one of their shows like MMA or boxing (that might end in the first round). Because it's predetermined and they can guarantee a good show. Well, that example you just gave of it ending after 7 minutes with a DQ is them screwing over everybody who paid for the show and going against what they've preached in the past.

 

I hate it when PPV matches don't have a definitive finish because isn't that the point of them being on PPV in the first place? I don't mind stories being continued on PPV (if it's good) but the things WWE does sometimes are mind-boggling.

 

I honestly feel WWE did that finish so that Batista would look extremely weak due to him leaving. In TEW terms - they buried him. I'm not a fan of Batista so it's not like I'm upset about all of it, but I like him more than I did after reading he left because he didn't like the direction (even though he was making millions of dollars).

[Hyde Hill]

I don't know about anyone else, but Power Rangers is what it has been for-ever. People like Hogan and Andre, Steamboat, Flair, etc.. They all felt like that back then as well as much as today.

 

I would tune out if it was Friends... X-Files is alright as long as it's not the whole show. Give me the over-the top gimmicks/characters and give me some silly storylines that make some sense, and I'll be happier then an episode of Friends would ever do for me. It's wrestling, it's not real, but it's not supposed to be "wimpy" either.

 

You guys are kinda taking the analogy too literally. All three shows had long and mainstream runs but the writing of all three shows was of a different level. Power Rangers mediocre, friends decent, x files good. What I meant with it is that one can be "mainstream" and successful at the same time and deliver better "quality" and not necessarily go for a niche product. I can substitute those three shows for a lot of different ones and it is the same point. It was meant as a general analogy not specifically friends or x files or power rangers.

[Candyman]

In case there was any doubt about Bryan Danielson's release being a work, WWE is asking fans if they want him back on their facebook account.

 

And Wrestlezone is reporting Chris Jericho was originally planned to be the leader of NXT, but now that they're unhappy with him because of his game show, it might be Triple H.

[The Final Countdown]

And Wrestlezone is reporting Chris Jericho was originally planned to be the leader of NXT, but now that they're unhappy with him because of his game show, it might be Triple H.

BLEH.

[The Celt]

/facepalm]