The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well, close-minded smarks that is.

 

I mean yeah, there are those guys who won't let anything pass and want the booking as they see fit and will throw the "predictable!" moniker onto at least one match or angle per show, but I would think the sensed smarks for the most part are quite open-minded. Guess it depends on one's POV, in this day and age we're our own crowd, with many smarky diversified opinions and whatnot.

 

I'm far from being Sheamus' biggest fan but I do enjoy this because I wonder where this will go(and partly because I hate Miz/Swagger ). And where this will take Sheamus. This being a completely fresh match-up, are they actually gonna do something with Cena, instead of the generic heel title challenger angle? Will Sheamus really benefit from it? Any other superstars will come into the fray(without being inserted into the title match that is)? Many questions, which can lead to interesting outcomes.

[sabataged]

Now those are two guys known for their high spots and innovative use of foreign objects. I, for one, am genuinely excited to see them in a match which plays to their strengths.

 

Not saying I like it but that's the way it is going.

[jbergey_2005]

He won a battle royal. He's a heel. Cena-vs-Sheamus isn't the main event of the card. He's new. And no matter what, smarks will find something negative about scenario. Despite that, he got a decent reaction from the crowd. But smarks don't understand that.

 

Well I guess I dont mind new matchups but there is just know way Sheamus beats Cena or even appears a threat to Cena. Id love some creative booking and see a big upset but it just wont happen therefore making this match non interesting to me.

 

On a side not hearing Jesse as the CC made me miss hearing him so much tonight. He is always making me laugh. "Why is Orton still outside, McMahon you need to hire some new refs" Them two together are priceless.

[jbergey_2005]

I'm far from being Sheamus' biggest fan but I do enjoy this because I wonder where this will go(and partly because I hate Miz/Swagger ). And where this will take Sheamus. This being a completely fresh match-up, are they actually gonna do something with Cena, instead of the generic heel title challenger angle? Will Sheamus really benefit from it? Any other superstars will come into the fray(without being inserted into the title match that is)? Many questions, which can lead to interesting outcomes.

 

I think we both know the way the E books these days that nothing creative or exciting will come from this. Athough I have been impressed with the booking of Kofi lately. They need to keep this going while his momentum is hot. He brings a new character to the otherwise stale main event scene.

[The Celt]

How many wrestlers are there in the whole of Ireland? 25 Tops.

 

What are the odds that ANY wrestler will make it to the WWE?

 

Now what are the odds an Irish wrestler makes to the WWE?

 

Now what are the odds that that wrestler actually gets a push in the WWE?

 

That he becomes No one contender?

 

675 Billion to One

 

Last Night Ireland just offically won.

 

 

I'm of course have my mind blown by last night's RAW as an Irish guy. However reading the responses to it almost, almost dampened by mood. 90% of the smarks are crying out "Too soon, too soon!" about Sheamus when those same smarks cried out "We need new guys to be pushed" just last week. These are also the same smarks who applauded the way Desmond Wolfe was brought into TNA. God you're fickle. This whole month is totally turning me away from smarks/IWC. There's never any pleasing you.

 

I bet if I asked one of you smarks what was the last thing you marked out for at the time it was shown you have problems naming it. The only thing that seems to you marking is something where the WWE used sheer force of will and did something that got universally over such as Taker-Michaels. It's crazy.

 

I mean look at it this way: Kofi and Sheamus are both getting the push.

 

The IWC wants people who are pushed to be "built" over a time (as to how long there unsure). OK then.

 

Kofi is getting that "being built" push. It's happening over a month or two. Kofi is doing the stuff that IWC say should get him over, i.e. doing everything possible to get in Orton's face without doing the blowoff match. I seem to remember the 3 on 3 match being applauded for clever booking. This is the quick but not too quick "IWC" mention of pushing. Where previously he'd been a midcarder he now was suddenly be put against a Main Eventer and getting the advantage.

 

Sheamus is being considered "the too quick push". He "appeared out of nowhere" according to most of you. Well, true but not all that true. Sheamus has been in the WWE since July. He's feuded with Goldust (lower carder) and then Shelton (midcarder), winning both feuds. It was last month when he showed up on RAW and in the following weeks he killed both Noble and beloved commenter the King Jerry Lawler.

 

Both of these men where put into a one night tournament to decide a new number one contender (something that should be highly praised by the IWC considering, you know, this is what they've DEMANDED) . During this the much acclaimed Orton-Kofi feud which is designed to get Kofi over continued. To the WWE this is excalty what the IWC asked for, because they claim that a "built push" requires time to work.

 

Meanwhile "Too quickly pushed" Sheamus took the big W, followed by nailing up THEE most over man in wrestling today, John Cena (and that's a fact).

 

And here's the punchline: Smarks are crying out that Kofi should have won the tournament.

 

How can smark ask the WWE to have Kofi win? You been asking for this guy to be built, not super-pushed, according to IWC! To have given Kofi the win would have flawed your own logic, it would have been too soon. He hasn't beaten Orton yet, you surely don't believe that should just be skipped over right?

 

But that's not the only punchline: If Sheamus had done what he's already done but over say 7 months instead of six you'd be cheering this. If Sheamus had had just one feud on RAW against a midcarder you'd be calling his push perfect, or at least you should if you counted ECW towards his career.

 

The bottom line is: Sheamus has actually been far more active in the WWE then Kofi in the last few months. Before this feud what was Orton doing? NOTHING (That US reign was really just going though the motions). But suddenly he's put into an Orton feud that could make him. Suddenly he's gaining traction with the fans and you want to hotshot that??? Jesus please, take a look at your own logic.

Meanwhile Sheamus has had two solid feuds in his back pocket, one man retired due to him and a beloved announcer KO'd.

 

Both of them won their Survivor Series match and were the final survivor.

 

The Night Kofi destroyed Orton's Car: October 26

The Night Sheamus debuted on RAW: October 26

 

Ladies and Gentlemen: Kofi and Sheamus have had the exalt same push. It's almost a mirror image. Now stop complaining, because you're getting the new blood you've been demanding for months.

 

 

 

Whoo, didn't know that was in me

[Tha Black Phenom]

Ehh, I agree with you on the overall post and the gist of your logic, but there's still some things in there I can't nod. Proclaiming Sheamus' past as two 'solid' feuds... maybe so, but they were easily forgettable tbh. Compared to a US title reign - yes, very monotone but Kofi was still fairly showcased, defending his title quite a lot building up his overness a tad, he was one of those midcarders ready to take the next step. Sheamus never had that, but I'm not one to shoot down this instant push of his. I like it, and I wanna see where it goes.

 

I honestly think this is all circumstantial. There's literally no one credible on the Raw roster to face Cena right now except DX.. or Randy Orton, who've faced 78 times and is now in the process of making Kingston. So while picking Kofi over Sheamus seems a bit hypocritical as you've said, there's no doubt the Raw booking... and the smarks' minds were backed into a corner here.

 

BUT, I figured smarks would be more open to this since it's not exactly like it's the first time it's happened. The Lesnar effect is lost on people I guess. And heck, even in recent memory Vladimir Kozlov got a megapush towards the World title, but too bad he fizzled out. You're right, some smarks are the ficklest it's astonishing. Not just about this, about everything. They label almost everything predictable... which annoys me, "predictable" is not to be confused with "logical booking". And if the booking was illogical, they'd complain anyway.

 

tl;dr I agree with you, all circumstances, go Sheamus, etc.

[The Two]

What The Celt said.

 

 

I'm just amazed at the idea of a Raw main event featuring only one of the ubiquitous trio of Cena, Orton and Hunter. Seriously, when was the last time a Raw main event didn't feature at least two of those guys?

 

It's a new guy main eventing a PPV for the first time. This can only be a good thing, and something we should all be happy about. Still not gonna watch it, but it opens the door for real change, especially as Kofi also seems to be on his way to the top.

 

It's weird, seems like in the last couple of months something has lit a fire under Vince's ass and made him realise he needs to up his game and build new stars... Hmmm...

[SaySo]

The era of Sheamus begins. If they could make Umaga relevant as the Samoan Bulldozer, they won't have any problem with the Celtic Warrior.

 

If you follow the WWE through the eyes of the smarks, there are no doubts you'll hate the product just as much as they do.

 

Imagine if the IWC was around during the time UnderTaker debuted, i bet they would say the same things about him that they say about any big guy today.

 

Sheamus -vs- Cena won't be the final match at TLC....i bet DX -vs- JeriShow TLC for the Unified tag titles will be headlining. Then there is Taker -vs- Batista. IWC trying to say "Sheamus-vs-Cena, who's going to buy that...geeSus.?

[Tha Black Phenom]

Aye, there's so many iconic things which happened in the past the IWC would be bashful against. My main example is always Vince McMahon winning the Royal Rumble, or Austin winning it a third time. "Could you believe that crap!?"

[jbergey_2005]

No offense to Sheamus fans but what about him is appealing to a wrestling fan? Hes not a destructive giant, hes not charasmatic, I am unsure of his wrestling ability because I havent seen much of it.

 

 

Yeah surprising is good but Id never heard of the guy before last night and now he is fighting Cena for the title. That part alone doesnt bother me but the fact that he doesnt even appear a threat is what does bother me. What happened to the old style booking where Cena is fighting a match and a guy like Sheamus comes out and destroys him sending him to the hospital. Setting up a grudge match for the title.

 

Instead we get a match in which we all know the outcome. No chance in ---- McMahon puts this guy over one of his biggest stars right now.

 

I did get a kick out of Jesse Ventura saying he needed a tan though.

 

And Kofi is going to be a big star. He is getting the push Shelton deserved.

[jjohns44]

I like Sheamus and was glad for his win. I didn't think Kofi or Randy was going to win either. When Randy won I was like 'ok, Randy's gonna eliminate Kofi or vice versa and the one who got eliminated is gonna jump in and get them eliminated' cuz they've been pushing the Kofi/Orton feud too much to get either involved in a title match. It didn't happen exactly as I predicted, but neither won the battle royale.

 

I think these gimmick match pay per views with the title of the pay per views referencing to the gimmicks are horrible though. WWE trying to be TNA now, that's taking a huge leap back there, Vince. What the heck happened to Armageddon, Unforgiven and there was no Cyber Sunday(I dont think there's been a cyber sunday in a while though)

[CQI13]

Cyber Sunday was an atrocity (as was Taboo Tuesday before it)...Yeah, let's make it kinda/sorta/maybe a little interactive. What a sham. Haven't much followed it lately, but I'm glad to hear that new people are getting pushed. And as stated earlier, Sheamus was getting a push, just on ECW.

[d_w_w]

No offense to Sheamus fans but what about him is appealing to a wrestling fan? Hes not a destructive giant, hes not charasmatic, I am unsure of his wrestling ability because I havent seen much of it.

 

/nod

 

I don't really follow the whole "smark" discussion line, as, at this point in my lfie, I only watch wrestling sporadically (that is, I watch wrestling when my fiance runes late from work - otherwise, we watch House & and then a DVR'ed Heroes)... so, I've seen maybe 3 raws in the last 2 months.

 

Having said that, I've seen Sheamus only a few times now (last night being one of them). Frankly, he's boring (to me). And totally unimpressive (to me).

 

Personally, I'd rather see them push Swagger. But, to each his own.

[sebsplex]

Having said that, I've seen Sheamus only a few times now (last night being one of them). Frankly, he's boring (to me). And totally unimpressive (to me).

 

I'm equally lacking in exposure to Sheamus (since I rarely watch any WWE programming for more than 10 mins or so at a time). I did catch what (I think) was his RAW debut recently when he 'injured' Jamie Noble. Perhaps judging him now is a bit harsh, but eh, I'm not surprised the WWE are pushing him as he ticks all their usual boxes. He seemed to lack real intensity and his repetoire (what I saw of it) was fairlyforgettable and frankly did nothing to really interest or excite me to want more... much like on the occasions I'd catch a bit of him on ECW (although matches against Golddust are only going to be so good). I must admit though, I find his pasty skinned Irish-ness quite cool. Outside of that... pass. I just don't see anything outstanding yet. Maybe he can take the push and run with it.

[SaySo]

People will find something boring especially when it is coming from a company that they are already disinterested to begin with.

[lazorbeak]

I am going to address three smarky posts for the price of one!

 

Well I guess I dont mind new matchups but there is just know way Sheamus beats Cena or even appears a threat to Cena. Id love some creative booking and see a big upset but it just wont happen therefore making this match non interesting to me.

 

No way he appears a threat to Cena? You know, he just powerslammed him through a table? He eliminated nearly all of Raw's midcard babyfaces to get this shot. He got pretty massive heat for destroying Noble. Also he's physically significantly bigger than Cena. But no, he's not a threat. Did you whine this much when Cena and Umaga had an amazing pay per view match a couple of years ago?

 

I think we both know the way the E books these days that nothing creative or exciting will come from this. Athough I have been impressed with the booking of Kofi lately. They need to keep this going while his momentum is hot. He brings a new character to the otherwise stale main event scene.

 

I think we all know that nothing creative or exciting will come from a PPV that features never-before seen match-ups between established stars (Cena, Orton) and up-and-comers (Kofi, Sheamus). One of the generic bellyaches of the past few years has been "no new stars," but the second WWE actually attempts to do that you've got smarks who have played too many wrestling games whining about card position.

 

No offense to Sheamus fans but what about him is appealing to a wrestling fan? Hes not a destructive giant, hes not charasmatic, I am unsure of his wrestling ability because I havent seen much of it.

 

What was appealing about Test? He was just a big, athletic guy, right? Beyond which Sheamus has a better look (Test was a Canadian with long blonde hair on a roster full of Canadians with long blonde hair). Also you admit you've never seen him before but you can make these (stupid) claims that he's not a destructive giant or not "charasmatic." Maybe if you actually withhold judgment long enough for the freaking story to build you'd understand why people that know something about the business are high on the guy.

 

Yeah surprising is good but Id never heard of the guy before last night and now he is fighting Cena for the title. That part alone doesnt bother me but the fact that he doesnt even appear a threat is what does bother me. What happened to the old style booking where Cena is fighting a match and a guy like Sheamus comes out and destroys him sending him to the hospital. Setting up a grudge match for the title.

 

Why should he get a title shot without earning one? Sheamus DID earn one: He won a qualifying match and then a battle royale that featured Orton and Kofi. The fact that despite that and the fact that he is significantly bigger than Cena you keep saying he's "not a threat" tells me you're not watching as a fan but as a smark. I mean, duh, Cena's not losing the title, but so what? A solid match could have Sheamus on the fast-track to actually being ready for the title. Remember when Cena got a shot at Lesnar, or JBL's first match with Guerrero? Neither of those guys had ANY business getting title shots, but they looked good enough that eventually both ended up being champions.

[CQI13]

And thank goodness for that. I thoroughly enjoyed JBL's reign. And as a fan, I remember wanting/hoping Cena would beat Lesnar at Backlash (that's when it happened right?)

[jbergey_2005]

I am going to address three smarky posts for the price of one!

 

 

 

No way he appears a threat to Cena? You know, he just powerslammed him through a table? He eliminated nearly all of Raw's midcard babyfaces to get this shot. He got pretty massive heat for destroying Noble. Also he's physically significantly bigger than Cena. But no, he's not a threat. Did you whine this much when Cena and Umaga had an amazing pay per view match a couple of years ago?

 

 

 

I think we all know that nothing creative or exciting will come from a PPV that features never-before seen match-ups between established stars (Cena, Orton) and up-and-comers (Kofi, Sheamus). One of the generic bellyaches of the past few years has been "no new stars," but the second WWE actually attempts to do that you've got smarks who have played too many wrestling games whining about card position.

 

 

 

What was appealing about Test? He was just a big, athletic guy, right? Beyond which Sheamus has a better look (Test was a Canadian with long blonde hair on a roster full of Canadians with long blonde hair). Also you admit you've never seen him before but you can make these (stupid) claims that he's not a destructive giant or not "charasmatic." Maybe if you actually withhold judgment long enough for the freaking story to build you'd understand why people that know something about the business are high on the guy.

 

 

 

Why should he get a title shot without earning one? Sheamus DID earn one: He won a qualifying match and then a battle royale that featured Orton and Kofi. The fact that despite that and the fact that he is significantly bigger than Cena you keep saying he's "not a threat" tells me you're not watching as a fan but as a smark. I mean, duh, Cena's not losing the title, but so what? A solid match could have Sheamus on the fast-track to actually being ready for the title. Remember when Cena got a shot at Lesnar, or JBL's first match with Guerrero? Neither of those guys had ANY business getting title shots, but they looked good enough that eventually both ended up being champions.

 

I loved the Umaga/Cena match. Umaga had been built up for almost a year and had beat everyone is his way. Probably one of the last great matches I have seen.

 

He eliminated all the midcard faces huh? Seemed to me he sat in the corner most of the match and flipped Kofi over the rope as Orton was being eliminated. Not really the most decisive win for a supposed threat. Umaga would come in a throw people around and he looked like an animal.

 

Phsically bigger than Cena? WTF are you lookin at? Cena is a brick wall compared to this guy. Cena is 260 pounds of muscle while this guy is 3-4 inches taller 15 pounds heavier and not nearly as built.

 

FYI I could care less about card position. They have 2 guys ready to face Cena that would make a much better match IMO.(Jack Swagger and Ted DiBiase)

 

What makes you think the "business" is so high on this guy? Do you have inside knowledge or something? I am fairly certain they know this guy is just like "The Mighty Hercules" so they need to push him before the fans hate him.

 

Yeah, he earned a title shot by beating no one of any name value. Are you saying he got over Orton or Kofi in that match? There was a reason they did the "battle royal" thing you know, so he didnt have to get over anyone important.

 

Its just stupid booking. If you want to try and force a guy like Sheamus atleast give him something to make it appear he could beat Cena. Perhaps an ally or a descructive weapon or some illegal move. Pretty sure hes not going to get over Cena by winning straight up.

 

Its like trying to have a movie ending in which the guy gets the girl with the only set up being a first date. Doesnt really make for an interesting drama packed movie I wouldnt think.

 

As for the smark remarks I dont think that is me considering the only wrestling I watch is the E. I am a fan of old school wrestling and many of my opinions are based on that time of wrestling that I miss. Get Shaemus an evil manager and youd see me mark out:)

[d_w_w]

nothing.

[infinitywpi]

So... am I the only one who's noticed this?

 

A heel champion holds the title until losing it to a mega-over face, and then goes on to feud with an up-and-coming young African-American superstar. Meanwhile, the title goes on to be defended in a triple-threat match against both members of a dominant tag team. The champ retains, only to find his next contender is a large, heavily-muscled man who recently arrived on his brand.

 

... is it just a coincidence, or are the Raw/Smackdown writers -really- that lazy? Or is this being done intentionally?

[jbergey_2005]

So... am I the only one who's noticed this?

 

A heel champion holds the title until losing it to a mega-over face, and then goes on to feud with an up-and-coming young African-American superstar. Meanwhile, the title goes on to be defended in a triple-threat match against both members of a dominant tag team. The champ retains, only to find his next contender is a large, heavily-muscled man who recently arrived on his brand.

 

... is it just a coincidence, or are the Raw/Smackdown writers -really- that lazy? Or is this being done intentionally?

 

It seems they are really lazy right now. Perhaps they are all on vaction prior to the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania.

 

I like when they mix it up but they need to build the story. They have their stars built so far ahead of everyone else any story is going to be hard to get people to buy into, in their defense.

[jbergey_2005]

nothing.

 

Aww, I liked what you had posted:)

[d_w_w]

Aww, I liked what you had posted:)

 

Glad you saw it.

 

Removed it to avoid provoking board drama, as these boards are generally better than that.

 

Just going to make it a point to ignore certain folks here, until they can present their opinions in a more civilized (read: less condescending/arrogant/demeaning) manner.

[lazorbeak]

He eliminated all the midcard faces huh? Seemed to me he sat in the corner most of the match and flipped Kofi over the rope as Orton was being eliminated. Not really the most decisive win for a supposed threat. Umaga would come in a throw people around and he looked like an animal.

 

Did you watch the match? He eliminated Mark Henry. He eliminated MVP. He eliminated R-Truth, and he eliminated Kofi. The only people he didn't toss were Legacy and Orton. How that makes him "not a threat" is one of those mysteries that only you know the answer to.

 

Phsically bigger than Cena? WTF are you lookin at? Cena is a brick wall compared to this guy. Cena is 260 pounds of muscle while this guy is 3-4 inches taller 15 pounds heavier and not nearly as built.

 

See, when I say physically bigger, what I mean is, he is larger. Physically. Which he is. By a pretty significant margin. That you would call Cena, who is BILLED at 240 pounds "260 pounds of muscle" tells me that you either don't pay much attention or might need a new prescription.

 

 

What makes you think the "business" is so high on this guy? Do you have inside knowledge or something? I am fairly certain they know this guy is just like "The Mighty Hercules" so they need to push him before the fans hate him.

 

Triple H is apparently a big fan of his backstage, and management has pushed and protected him since he debuted. You are fairly certain based on what, exactly? Your ten minutes watching somebody on one episode of a TV show? Seriously you apparently know nothing about the guy so perhaps you are significantly premature in assumptions? I'm not saying he's the second coming, but you're not even giving the guy a chance.

 

Yeah, he earned a title shot by beating no one of any name value. Are you saying he got over Orton or Kofi in that match? There was a reason they did the "battle royal" thing you know, so he didnt have to get over anyone important.

 

For being a fan of "old school wrestling," I'm just shocked that you could say something so dumb. Yes, he went over Orton. Yes, he went over Kofi. He freaking eliminated Kofi! This is how battle royale's have worked since the beginning of time!

 

Its just stupid booking. If you want to try and force a guy like Sheamus atleast give him something to make it appear he could beat Cena. Perhaps an ally or a descructive weapon or some illegal move. Pretty sure hes not going to get over Cena by winning straight up.

 

That's why he punked out Cena this week. It's why he will Punk out Cena AGAIN in the weeks to come. Again, this is just you jumping the gun and burying a program before it's even off the ground. Instead of whining about the only set-up being the first date and WWE doesn't do anything creative and other assorted whining, just watch the show and see how the story develops.

[jbergey_2005]

I love how you use the term "dumb" so freely. It really makes you come off great in your arguments which are really opinions.

 

I will expect an apology when Sheamus is out of the E within a year.

 

 

John Cena

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/j/john-cena.html 260 pounds, FYI the wrestling world will fabricate weights and nation of residence to evolve storylines in case you didnt know that. Mark Calloway isnt really from Death Valley, lol and Andre the Giant didnt really weight 550 pounds.

 

Sheamus

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/s/sheamus-oshaunessy.html 275 pounds

 

Also, you really need to watch more of the E before you call out people as being dumb. You apparently dont understand the E's booking pattern if you honestly think anyone will believe Shameus will beat Cena. If the fans dont believe a guy has a chance how is it a great match? Even you, a big Shameus mark said " I mean, duh, Cena's not losing the title, but so what?"

 

Pretty much says it all right there. No one, even you believe he has a chance to win so how exactly is that entertaining?

 

You dont have a guy sleepwalk through a battle royal of basically midcarders and expect people to accept him being shoved down their throats do you?

 

Why not have him come in and destroy Rey Mysterio, then attack Shawn Michaels, then Triple H. You then have a worthy contender. Better yet, have him send Cena to the hospital prior to the match already being made in an attack and make him look like one tough SOB. This beating on midcarders just seems weak and the contract signing attack is so unoriginal and it doesnt work anymore.