The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[lazorbeak]

The Great Khali is popular in his current role, so I see little reason why Isis doesn't have a chance to be likewise. You can't push clumsy giants to the top any more, but I maintain there's a spot for them, especially when 6'9 and a woman. Chyna wasn't much of a worker, and she had a pretty strong fanbase for a while.

 

I just don't understand the mindset of anyone who can't think of a place for a giant woman on television. That has the potential to be so over that even if it's a failure that makes sense.

 

I haven't seen her work, but if she can't wrestle, don't have her wrestle. The crowd resents people pushed beyond their ability, but they also love freaks. As Self said, once Khali stopped going after belts the crowds loved him.

 

Just have her manage somebody important (read: no one in the x-division). Hell, put her with one of the Hardyz. Or Dinero. There's no shortage of heels in TNA that could use muscular back-up. She doesn't have to do anything but stand in the background with her arms crossed during promos and angles, and then have one to two spots per match, and assuming she's still training, by the time she's ready to go off on her own she will already be hugely over.

 

It worked for Chyna, but it also worked for Diesel, Batista, and everybody else who got over as a silent bodyguard. But there's always a place for marginally talented folks when they look like they could genuinely hurt somebody.

[ampulator]

Also, TNA has managed to make disasters after miracles are given to them... take defeat right out of the jaws of victory. What makes anyone think that TNA will use anyone properly? If they can't use AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels properly, they certainly aren't going to use her properly.

[juggaloninjalee]

I just don't understand the mindset of anyone who can't think of a place for a giant woman on television. That has the potential to be so over that even if it's a failure that makes sense.

 

I haven't seen her work, but if she can't wrestle, don't have her wrestle. The crowd resents people pushed beyond their ability, but they also love freaks. As Self said, once Khali stopped going after belts the crowds loved him.

 

Just have her manage somebody important (read: no one in the x-division). Hell, put her with one of the Hardyz. Or Dinero. There's no shortage of heels in TNA that could use muscular back-up. She doesn't have to do anything but stand in the background with her arms crossed during promos and angles, and then have one to two spots per match, and assuming she's still training, by the time she's ready to go off on her own she will already be hugely over.

 

It worked for Chyna, but it also worked for Diesel, Batista, and everybody else who got over as a silent bodyguard. But there's always a place for marginally talented folks when they look like they could genuinely hurt somebody.

 

I actually agree with this a lot. She could manage any of the heel knock outs the same way. This could work and she could easily interfere by just pulling down the top rope making a guy spill to the floor ending all his momentum. When that guy gets back in the ring momentum changes and the match is over.

[jwt13]

I wonder how TNA got God and the Anti-Christ to work together??

[Wrestling Century]

Aligning him with Isis wouldn't just stunt his growth it would regress it entirely. Red is someone that can still be the centrepeice of the X-Division and putting him with Isis would kill him and once the novelty wears off, there's nowhere else to go.

 

First off, the X Division has been a shell of its former self the past few years, to the point that now there almost isn't a division at all. Secondly, wrestlers that have been in the "bodyguard" role for another wrestler have never overshadowed them. They are in that role to do one of these three things:

 

1. Job out to everybody (example: Gunner and Murphy)

2. Break into the company (example: Batista) or

3. To make the other wrestler look good (example: Alex Riley)

 

Name one time when a bodyguard overshadowed the wrestler they were guarding! Until you come up with an example, this discussion is over.

[Astil]

First off, the X Division has been a shell of its former self the past few years, to the point that now there almost isn't a division at all. Secondly, wrestlers that have been in the "bodyguard" role for another wrestler have never overshadowed them. They are in that role to do one of these three things:

 

1. Job out to everybody (example: Gunner and Murphy)

2. Break into the company (example: Batista) or

3. To make the other wrestler look good (example: Alex Riley)

 

Name one time when a bodyguard overshadowed the wrestler they were guarding! Until you come up with an example, this discussion is over.

 

Ezekiel Jackson and The Brian Kendrick

[jwt13]

First off, the X Division has been a shell of its former self the past few years, to the point that now there almost isn't a division at all. Secondly, wrestlers that have been in the "bodyguard" role for another wrestler have never overshadowed them. They are in that role to do one of these three things:

 

1. Job out to everybody (example: Gunner and Murphy)

2. Break into the company (example: Batista) or

3. To make the other wrestler look good (example: Alex Riley)

 

Name one time when a bodyguard overshadowed the wrestler they were guarding! Until you come up with an example, this discussion is over.

 

Nash/HBK

[Wrestling Century]

Ezekiel Jackson and The Brian Kendrick

 

Nash/HBK

 

The reason Ezekiel Jackson overshadowed Kendrick is because they were pushing Jackson more than they were pushing Kendrick. Nash didn't overshadow HBK, Nash was just being pushed to the Main Event and the bodyguard thing was just the setup for a fued with HBK. Those aren't examples. At all.

[lazorbeak]

I actually agree with this a lot. She could manage any of the heel knock outs the same way. This could work and she could easily interfere by just pulling down the top rope making a guy spill to the floor ending all his momentum. When that guy gets back in the ring momentum changes and the match is over.

 

Exactly. It gets her over with the crowd so that they want to see her do something without exposing her limitations.

[brashleyholland]

The reason Ezekiel Jackson overshadowed Kendrick is because they were pushing Jackson more than they were pushing Kendrick.

 

Exactly, so he overshadowed him.

 

Nash didn't overshadow HBK, Nash was just being pushed to the Main Event and the bodyguard thing was just the setup for a fued with HBK.

 

No, because Nash didn't go on to be part of the biggest angle in wrestling ever, while HBK languished on the shelf with injuries.

 

Those aren't examples. At all.

 

I say this in the kindest way possible, but if there is one person that really doesn't need to be using 'Internet Sarcasm', it's you

[MattitudeV2]

I can't believe I would say this on TNA but they have their verisons of Austin and Rock right in front of them in Anderson and Pope.

 

Ken Anderson-feeling scorned by WWE and he wants to prove he doesn't need to be told how to act.

 

Elijah "Pope" Burke-Really can be one of the many who has the mic skills to be a star and also has a good moveset to do it.

 

BUT, can TNA produce with both of these guys?

[BHK1978]

I can't believe I would say this on TNA but they have their verisons of Austin and Rock right in front of them in Anderson and Pope.

 

Ken Anderson-feeling scorned by WWE and he wants to prove he doesn't need to be told how to act.

 

Elijah "Pope" Burke-Really can be one of the many who has the mic skills to be a star and also has a good moveset to do it.

 

BUT, can TNA produce with both of these guys?

 

You know the odd thing is I was thinking the same thing tonight while I was watching it. I highly doubt they will get to the level of Austin and the Rock (And really I highly doubt we will see any wrestler get to that level in the near future.) but I do see the connection and I hope TNA lets them both run with their respective characters.

[Slagaholic]

Heel pope rules. His "Jesus just texted me" line gave me a hernia.

 

With all the babble about no one knowing what side anyone is on and such in TNA, that argument has been pretty null for a while now. They still have angles that go absolutely no where, but we all know who is on who's side and if we don't know we find out quickly instead of it dragging on for months and months. You can hate on the characters and the booking, but the stories are making complete sense now. I have to imagine that there has either been some creative upheaval or creative have been re-invigorated somehow.

[Self]

Really? Ezekial overshadowed The Brian Kendrick? Until I read this thread, I had totally forgotten Ezekial existed, while The Brian Kendrick will be etched in my mind for eternity. Remember when he was temporary World Champion in that Scramble match? I do. Remember his matches with Jeff Hardy on Smackdown? I do (Jeff doing power moves!) Sure, he eventually was released, but that was the road he was on anyway, and that gimmick propelled him to a higher position on the roster, including fighting for the World Title, and the gimmick wouldn't have worked without Ezekial.

[Fantabulous]

First off, the X Division has been a shell of its former self the past few years, to the point that now there almost isn't a division at all. Secondly, wrestlers that have been in the "bodyguard" role for another wrestler have never overshadowed them. They are in that role to do one of these three things:

 

1. Job out to everybody (example: Gunner and Murphy)

2. Break into the company (example: Batista) or

3. To make the other wrestler look good (example: Alex Riley)

 

Name one time when a bodyguard overshadowed the wrestler they were guarding! Until you come up with an example, this discussion is over.

 

Just because the X-Division has been a shell of it's former self, which is a great commentary on how it's been handled, doesn't mean TNA can't try and out some steam behind it. And even if examples have been shown of bodyguard's overshadowing their clients hadn't been give, even if it had never happened before is no reason to think it couldn't happen at all. Especially when the potential combo is 6ft 9 Isis guarding 5ft 6Amazing Red. Seriously, does anyone think she wouldn't overshadow Red?

[shamelessposer]

Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/2/11/1988877/a-closer-look-at-how-the-tna-office-handles-outside-bookings

[Self]

Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/2/11/1988877/a-closer-look-at-how-the-tna-office-handles-outside-bookings

 

Fun read. It would be nice if the system worked. To me, TNA should be no obligation to provide wrestlers with a living wage, given the light schedule they're clearly comfortable running. However, neither should they have the power to prevent their roster from earning a living wage elsewhere. If I were in charge (and I'm no businessman) I like to think I'd allow the bottom half of my roster to do whatever they wanted. My top guys are available at a price, but Madison Rayne, the Young Bucks, Daffney, Robbie E et al... Feel free to take 'em. They need experience anyway.

 

Although I may be underestimating the drawing power of being on TV. After all, I skipped a recent TNA show, with all the stars, 2 hours from my house... but one month earlier I drove 4 hours to go to an indy show with Paul London and El Generico. Clearly I have a skewed perspective on the value of tv stars.

[lazorbeak]

Not sure if Behrens was just given the promoter side of this, but he comes off pretty idiotic with the old standby "nobody is forcing anyone to book TNA talent." TNA just sounds like an absolutely awful place to work. They don't pay the way WWE does and at the same time they insert themselves into any 3rd party contracts with their "independent contractors" (which is legally questionable and ethically repugnant), with the end result being that their talent is limited in what they can do and where they can go, while not being paid a real wage. It's no wonder their midcard champions end up being recognized at the Sunglasses Hut. As the situation stands, if I was an indy wrestler I'd be way more interested in getting onto ROH's roster. While you may not be as recognizable when working other indy dates, you can at least retain some control over your brand.

[PeterHilton]

Didn't we do this argument a few months back? Based on a report written on the exact same site? And the TNA defenders used the old "hey we can't believe anything written on the internet because we have no proof" deal?

 

Just wanted to be sure before this ball gets rolling again...

 

I think TNA is right to assume that they are adding value to their talent. I'm sure there are quite a few guys on that aroster that would get bookings based solely on their TV appearances for TNA. But if you hinder the process, or make it so costly that other promoters won't bother, and then pay so little that even working TNA's vaunted "house show circuit" doesn't leave you with a livable wage, then being a part of the TNA roster really is worthless.

[juggaloninjalee]

If TNA makes a wrestlers pay not worthy enough then shouldn't an Indy guy go to TNA and then when the original hopefully short contract runs up go back to the Indys since they can now use it as a boost to their value?

[PeterHilton]

If TNA makes a wrestlers pay not worthy enough then shouldn't an Indy guy go to TNA and then when the original hopefully short contract runs up go back to the Indys since they can now use it as a boost to their value?

 

The short answer is "yes" but no one rally knows how long the contracts are.

 

Plus, I'm sure every indy guy who goes there hopes to make it big and become a TNA star (although god knows how long it's been since TNAmade an indy guy a main event level star)

 

And (and this is the bit about the article i dont really believe) I guess some people are claiming that being poorly booked by TNA decreases their value..but its hard for me to think that Samoa Joe (the example they used) isn't still in demand by indy groups now, despite the relative misuse by TNA

[Self]

And (and this is the bit about the article i dont really believe) I guess some people are claiming that being poorly booked by TNA decreases their value..but its hard for me to think that Samoa Joe (the example they used) isn't still in demand by indy groups now, despite the relative misuse by TNA

 

To use a potentially misfiring analogy, back in the early days of cinema, there were movie stars and television stars. TV stars could be seen from the comfort of your own home, but to see a movie star you had to leave your house, go to the cinema, and pay money. You only got to see them a couple of times a year. Movie stars were considered the more special, even more so than today, with our dedicated movie channels and widespread dvd rental services.

 

When Samoa Joe was an Independent wrestler, he was something special, in many ways akin to the movie star. The only way to see him fight was to buy a DVD or attend a show. Now he's in TNA, he's on TV every week, for free, and has been for many years. He's become more akin to the TV star, and while yes, his name is more widely known to casual fans. the loss of a little excitement is inevitable. Booking aside, what is Joe going to do at a local indy show that the crowd haven't seen him do a billion times on Impact?

 

It depends who the indy promoter's audience is. Some go after the hardcore wrestling fanbase. Some cater to kids and such. This theory obviously reflects the hardcore fans more. As I said before, I skipped a TNA show, mostly because if I wanted to watch those guys I could save £100 (fuel prices are a killer) and watch them on TV. They weren't special to me. They were just TV stars.

[ampulator]

Actually, books people SO bad, people ignore them. They use people so badly, it CAN'T affect their value, because people don't can't take TNA booking seriously. In other words, their booking is rather inconsequential. Would YOU take TNA booking seriously?

 

Hell, they could probably put Kurt Angle in one those Japanese "Hard Gay" (seriously, there's such a thing, look it up) costume, and people would ignore it. Well, not ignore it... everyone would be up in arms, but no one would bother to assess the "loss of value", because it's TNA making him do it. Come on.

[Slagaholic]

Actually, books people SO bad, people ignore them. They use people so badly, it CAN'T affect their value, because people don't can't take TNA booking seriously. In other words, their booking is rather inconsequential. Would YOU take TNA booking seriously?

 

Hell, they could probably put Kurt Angle in one those Japanese "Hard Gay" (seriously, there's such a thing, look it up) costume, and people would ignore it. Well, not ignore it... everyone would be up in arms, but no one would bother to assess the "loss of value", because it's TNA making him do it. Come on.

 

You're assuming that everyone or even most people that watch wrestling and go to indy shows watch wrestling as if they're Roger Ebert. They don't. Not every wrestling fan is like you. The question of "taking booking seriously" isn't an issue for the vast majority of wrestling fans.

 

Most wrestling fans don't watch a wrestling show and go "well I wouldn't have booked it that way, UGH what terrible booking, they need to push _______!" Instead they actually watch it for fun, not to analyze every aspect of the show and compare it to what you would have done had you gotten off your ass, worked hard, built relationships in the business, got lucky and got to book the show yourself.

 

It's the same thing with many movie reviewers who babble about spotty script writing, lazy directing and poor character development as if John Q. Moviefan is going to give a damn. The average movie goer doesn't watch it with those things in mind, they watch movies to be entertained by the writing and directing. They don't sit back adjusting their monocle sipping 1953 Merlot waiting to be impressed and at the same time looking for every thing to hate about the movie.

 

There are many wrestling fans who hate wrestling, that is unless it's presented the way they think it should be presented. You don't get that in many other entertainment mediums, in other mediums if you dislike it you just turn it off and quit bitching. When wrestling is being presented the way they want it to be they can do no wrong, all the great leaps in logic and bizarre booking is ignored. When it's not what they want they can do nothing right and all the issues with the booking become huge problems that are killing the company.

 

I sorta went on a rant here on a subject that I usually go on a rant on. It's nothing new for me but I'm just tired of the constant childish bitching about booking and the assumption that the 2 million+ people who watch Raw and not Impact do so because of what they say is wrong with TNA.

[Fantabulous]

You're assuming that everyone or even most people that watch wrestling and go to indy shows watch wrestling as if they're Roger Ebert. They don't. Not every wrestling fan is like you. The question of "taking booking seriously" isn't an issue for the vast majority of wrestling fans.

 

The people you describe are casual fans and most casual fans are satisfied with what they see on TV. Generally speaking, they don't go to an Indy. The fans that do to see Indy wrestling are mostly the ones who care about how people are booked.