MrOnu Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 *shrug* I guess I'm just tired of itty bitty companies biting off more than they can chew with major IPs. Perpetual, Cheyenne, whoever the hell Marvel handed their MMO to, all of these bit players don't have the resources to really do justice to an IP with a large following. They're basically banking on the diehard fans becoming invested just because of the name on the box, and handing them money regardless of quality. Those fans will always be disappointed because quality (and "polish") has a significant cost that the small fries can't handle. So they release half-finished games and spout BS lines like "MMOs are not about release". Yeah? Tell Turbine that (hi D&D). Tell that to FunCom ("OMG Tortage was awesome! Wait, you mean that's all that's finished?"). Warhammer sold over a million units in its first month. How many of those people stayed beyond the first (read: "free") month? Yes, MMOs are about release. Heck, nowadays, MMOs are about OPEN BETA since that's when many people form their opinions of a game (save yourself $40 in the process!). It's like a first date. If the woman looks busted and orders the lobster (or the guy insists on the woman paying for everything or likes to use 'bitch' as a synonym for 'girl' or 'woman'), chances are there won't be a second date. And if there is, well, you deserve to get Vanguarded. Totally agree there and that's why I might never try STO. If I don't get into beta or they don't release some kind of trial version, I will not give them my money. From what I've read from different sources, I have a lot of doubts about this one, it feels rushed and an half-baked effort to make a game quickly. Only once I bought a MMO without ever trying it beforehand and I'm not going to do that again, thanks to Mythic and Warhammer. Oh I checked a few to satisfy my curiosity about a game concept (eg : Vanguard) and never went longer than the first free month, but it was an decision I assumed and it was well after release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Heck yeah,started off as a kid playing around with the old color coded box sets(Basic set in the red box,Expert in blue box), then moved up to AD&D right before the introduction of the 2nd Edition rules. Shoot,I remember when the whole setting had a ton of books and novels out for it....now Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser....that's old school! heh as a geek who is old enough to remember when AOL was a Commodore-only BBS service called Quantum Link (and who once ran up a $300+ bill playing on Q-Link), I knew about D&D before I actually played the pen and paper versions. I read the books and such but didn't actually play until AD&D 2nd edition during and after boot camp (Great Lakes represent! ) and A school. Totally agree there and that's why I might never try STO. If I don't get into beta or they don't release some kind of trial version, I will not give them my money. From what I've read from different sources, I have a lot of doubts about this one, it feels rushed and an half-baked effort to make a game quickly. Only once I bought a MMO without ever trying it beforehand and I'm not going to do that again, thanks to Mythic and Warhammer. Oh I checked a few to satisfy my curiosity about a game concept (eg : Vanguard) and never went longer than the first free month, but it was an decision I assumed and it was well after release. I daresay you represent the vast majority of gamers and are a major reason why everyone's trying to come up with new and unique trials. My worry is, people are going to see the long string of bombs in the pay-to-play area and think that only free to play is a viable MMO market so we'll see tons of hastily made free to play games that all do squat in sales but manage to turn a profit because people have to pay extra for every little thing. A la carte gaming is fine for me (I have the resources and I'm willing to use them) but it's not for the gaming populace as a whole. MMOs are my favorite type of game (RPGs more specifically) so I really hate this trend. I hated the WoW phenomenon (where 'accessibility' is synonymous with 'dumbed down' and 'easy' and 'short attention span theater') but realized it was for the greater good. What greater good is served by the biggest names and IPs in entertainment outright failing in one area because of incompetent and/or underfunded development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderndaywarrior Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I hated the WoW phenomenon (where 'accessibility' is synonymous with 'dumbed down' and 'easy' and 'short attention span theater') but realized it was for the greater good. What greater good is served by the biggest names and IPs in entertainment outright failing in one area because of incompetent and/or underfunded development? My roommate and I used to share a WoW account;I liked it best when it was somewhere in between what it was at launch and what it is now....enough that you COULD be effective on your own,but you had to actually work for it. I think the problem is now everyone(fans and game companies alike) wants to try and put every MMO on that same level as WoW,but don't want to,or cannot afford to, put the years of hard work that it would take to be on that level...so you end up with half-hearted efforts at it that gets everyone upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOnu Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 It's often all about players expectations. I, for one, don't care if I spend money on a "regular" game, play it only a bit for a month or so and never touch it again. I had fun for some time, it was worth the money, time to move on. It's a different story with MMOs, especially new ones. Players like me look at those games and unfortunately believe it will be a grandiose experience that you'll be hooked up on for many months (and that's the companies hope as the funding needed was important). When all fails, you probably had some fun for a short periode of time, spent about the same amount of money as on a regular game for the same length, but because of the higher expectations, you feel frustrated, you think it should have been better and it wasn't worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 *Raises Hand* I did....but then I've been around Fantasy since the days of the gold box AD&D Games and huddling around the old Commodore saving Lord British. Drizt, Elminster, The silver haired sisters, etc. What a world. Rock on, man, rock on.. AD&D was sooooo cool, we played it from there on out. Never looked back to plain ol' D&D. World of Greyhawk, now that's where it was at.... Played a little Gamma World (think this is right) too, cause, well, it was a fun diversion every so often.... Heck yeah,started off as a kid playing around with the old color coded box sets(Basic set in the red box,Expert in blue box), then moved up to AD&D right before the introduction of the 2nd Edition rules. Shoot,I remember when the whole setting had a ton of books and novels out for it....now Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser....that's old school! LOL, you know they actually included them in a Legends and Lore manual. Had their own section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonmack Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I am so old, I knew about Forgotten Realms when it first started. I actually got my D&D start when Gygax's Greyhawk was the only published universe and we were still using the first edition Dungeon Master guide and Player's Handbooks ( which I sold for a nice chunk of money a decade later ;p ) As for the Star trek online and Tor, I will probably go with the one I know and trust, Bioware. Although I am a star trek geek, I know Bioware brings quality, and since I am already a solid year into being addicted to WoW, i just dont have a lot of time ( or money ) to play several MMO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Cowboy Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm sort of in the same boat... I was all geeked up for Champions Online, and bought it (with a 6-month subscription which guaranteed access to the Star Trek beta) but instead I ended up leveling my WoW priest up to 80 this fall! My CO characters are still all around lvl 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderndaywarrior Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I finally got in a good,long session tonight and I have to say I am in agreement with Remi and some of the others in saying I can see a few things that make me think they are trying to do like Eric Bischoff and sell the sizzle,not the steak.....much like that other "wonderful" game, Star Wars Galaxies. Right now,I can only hope they iron out all the clunkiness and come with some of genius idea within the next few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 rezzed as open beta schedule was released (Jan. 12 - Jan. 26) GDS Fed Fleet anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'd be in, though it's fairly unlikely I'll actually be there at release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Cowboy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'd be in too but I'm 75/25. The chance to get a bridge officer or the old school ship though through the different pre-orders I think is going to be too much to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Open Beta's on. Yay. Good luck staying connected though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Looks like they fixed the map issues. Went over to Klingon side and it's a mess, definitely still in Beta. I'd say that Federation side is good enough to launch,but Klingon is half-assed at this point. All of your missions are "go out and PvP for awhile" Plus with the loot tables messed up, I can't get any upgrades for my ship and the default BoP has a crappy load out in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comradebot Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Aye, Klingons need work... that said, PvP is fun enough to make them interesting to screw around with. Really, my biggest issue is the crappy loot tables. You can't buy consoles anywhere on the Klingon side... Meanwhile, at the end of Closed Beta they introduced Saurians as a premade playable race... but it turns out they're bugged, and you can't skill up as one! That said, I'm still totally going to main a Saurian, so this way I can have a crazy lizard creature on each side. And there is a MESS of lag right now, buuut.... it's open beta. If you're expecting zero lag in an open beta, then clearly you've never played one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 C-bot? You're playing? Gotta get your handle. PM me if you don't want it public. Remi and I grouped up the first night of beta. I'm really loving tanking, both in PvE and PvP. It's a lot of fun faking people out by almost exposing a weak shield and then slamming it into reverse so they overshoot and I can broadside them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 And there is a MESS of lag right now, buuut.... it's open beta. If you're expecting zero lag in an open beta, then clearly you've never played one. Not so fast! The start of open beta can be like that since they're stress testing the network code but not always. Some companies see open beta as a way to showcase the game and apply polish (and fix niggling bugs) prior to release. Preorder people who get into this stage are judging the game based on what they're experiencing now. When you start "selling" beta slots (and really, giving guaranteed keys to people specifically because they preorder is, in a way, selling it), you gotta expect people to NOT be so tolerant of what they see as 'basic' system functions. Like a stable server, for example. Yes, experienced testers know the deal. However, experienced testers (and players) don't tend to shell out for a game sight unseen (which is what many of those preorder customers did - closed beta didn't have even HALF this many people and many closed beta testers I know didn't preorder at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comradebot Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Not so fast! The start of open beta can be like that since they're stress testing the network code but not always. Some companies see open beta as a way to showcase the game and apply polish (and fix niggling bugs) prior to release. Preorder people who get into this stage are judging the game based on what they're experiencing now. When you start "selling" beta slots (and really, giving guaranteed keys to people specifically because they preorder is, in a way, selling it), you gotta expect people to NOT be so tolerant of what they see as 'basic' system functions. Like a stable server, for example. Yes, experienced testers know the deal. However, experienced testers (and players) don't tend to shell out for a game sight unseen (which is what many of those preorder customers did - closed beta didn't have even HALF this many people and many closed beta testers I know didn't preorder at all). Yes, but it's still a beta test, and is called as such. The point of it is to get the game prepared for launch. Maybe if it was called "Super Happy Play The Game For Free Funtime!" that wouldn't be the case, but even now Open it IS still a beta test. If anyone wants to pay money to play a game that is, by definition, not yet complete then that's their problem. And yeah, "selling" pre-orders is dubious (though you can pre-order for as low as $.99, and if you end up buying the game it didn't actually cost you anything), but at the same time the only other options would be to either let EVERYONE in who wanted in, or have a limited supply of keys to sign-up for on a first come, first serve basis (or I supposse keep handling it like closed beta and JUST bring in random people). Obviously the server isn't yet ready to open the floodgates, and, well... once could spin it and say that by letting pre-order folks in, they're rewarding those already hyped enough about the game to have spent even a token amount of money to pre-order it. Which has the added bonus of meaning they're more likely to have people who, being hyped for the game, end up giving it positive reviews while in beta. Last, they won't have to ever hear ANYONE whine that they've already put money towards STO, and now they won't have a chance to play it before it launches while some people will get to play it and never pay a dime. Again, I don't totally agree with the idea of "charging" for open beta, but at the same time I can't really blame Cryptic for doing so. The only real consquence would seem to be people who are too frugal to shell out a buck complaining that they're getting screwed. All of that said and the issues aside, I'm legitimately having a blast with this game. The only glaring issue right now to me personally is my inability to skill up my Saurian (), but I'm confident that's high on the list of things to fix. Oh, and the fact that I haven't decided on a skin tone and name for said Saurian (though his body/head build is perfect!). I'm thinking of eventually going with one of the random names it tried to skip my way earlier, Boachev. That way he'd be, like, the Soviet Space Serpent. That could totally be the name of an Indie Rock band... And all of THAT said... I am planning to be there launch day (er, head start). Even with its issues, it has more enjoyment factor to me. Enough to know that the game has a solid foundation, and I'd very much like to witness them building on that first hand. Worst case scenario... well, next year TOR comes out. Until then, I'll let my inner Trekkie give STO more than a fair shot. Oh, and PP, I've been in beta for almost a couple of weeks now, got in on the tail end of Closed Beta. I actually left a comment in a thread on the beta forums below one of yours and hoped you'd stumble across it... I guess not. And my Global name is Steel-Hyena (my selfmade archnemesis of Comradebot back in COH). And that was far more than I thought I'd end up posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Ha, I recognize the name, I missed the connection though. I hope you've been enjoying my trolling efforts. Honestly, I think trolling the boards is the biggest motivation for me to beta test. There has never been a more sure fire way to get a bunch of 'tards on one board then to give them a self-inflated sense of purpose about a video game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 So... more or less system-intensive than Champions? I beta'd Champions and even with the grpahics at minimum, I was barely able to play due to bad framerate... I'm hoping Trek is more like EVE Online -- beautiful yet easy on the system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comradebot Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 So... more or less system-intensive than Champions? I beta'd Champions and even with the grpahics at minimum, I was barely able to play due to bad framerate... I'm hoping Trek is more like EVE Online -- beautiful yet easy on the system... It's actually about the same, sorry. I think my computer runs it slightly smoother or somewhat better settings, but only a step above marginal. Then again, CO is a naturally ugly game and I could never play it for more than a few minutes without getting incredibly bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Comradebot, I totally get you. My point was, many people in the beta right now are not veteran gamers. They don't know what 'beta' really means. They think it's a headstart on the headstart. Just read the forums to see that. People complaining about 'canon' being violated in some obscure way, not realizing that it has to be bent to fit gameplay. I swear, every time I see a whine post about how it takes too long to get out of the Miranda class ship, I skewer a kitten (startin' to run out ). People complaining about how it takes 4 hours to get to the equivalent of level 10 are obviously newbies to the genre. Honestly, I think trolling the boards is the biggest motivation for me to beta test. There has never been a more sure fire way to get a bunch of 'tards on one board then to give them a self-inflated sense of purpose about a video game Heh true. Like the ones who complain about people reporting bugs. "That doesn't affect me so it's not important" said someone about the Deep Space afk leveling 'sploit. Basically, you can go into a deep space mission, find a quiet corner to hang out in and let other people do the dirty work (aggroing spawns and tanking them) while you just focus fire and vaporize the mobs and get loot rights to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 My favorite are the people posting about ragequitting and cancelling their pre-orders because of the disconnect issue I just started copying & pasting my standard response (OMFG BUGS IN BETA!?) and trolling a bunch of threads at the same time. One of the whiners called me a douche nozzle so I had to put him in his place with several dev posts about how they know about the issue and were hot fixing it later that night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comradebot Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 My favorite are the people posting about ragequitting and cancelling their pre-orders because of the disconnect issue I just started copying & pasting my standard response (OMFG BUGS IN BETA!?) and trolling a bunch of threads at the same time. One of the whiners called me a douche nozzle so I had to put him in his place with several dev posts about how they know about the issue and were hot fixing it later that night Hehehe... Douche Nozzle... I'll have to remember that one. My favorites are the guys who are threatening not to buy the game if it has a monthly fee. Oh, and this one guy who said he would pre-order to get into beta, only he doesn't have the money. So if they didn't give him a beta key, he was gonna re-subscribe to WoW again. He couldn't afford the one dollar to pre-order STO, but apparently can afford $15 for another month of WoW. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Anyway, we need to create a fleet if you're interested. Or join en mass to a bigger one if you guys are getting the ins that way. Don't know what kind of interest level there'd be, but it might be fun to stomp around with our own GDS-inspired logo for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Yeah, server's kinda pooped though. It takes me 5 minutes of loading to get to my bridge. I'm hoping they ramp up the hardware a good bit. Seems like they're trying to make this a big mainstream title. Can't qualify if you can't handle 100k+ PCU. I'd be up for a GDS Fleet. A friend pointed out something to me which kinda forced me to preorder. He said, "When was the last Western MMO you didn't play at launch?". Heh, Asheron's Call (1). Debating going with the stacking scheme some people are talking about (i.e. preorder and box bonuses of STO are stackable. So if you buy one copy from Amazon and one from say, Steam, you get both exclusive packages and 60 days of "free" play). Best combo seems to be Collector's Edition from Amazon and Digital Deluxe from Steam (gives you the uniforms from the original series, Deep Space Nine, and The Next Generation and some personal/ship items and a Borg Bridge Officer). Dunno if I want to spend $125 for STO though and I'm thinking they'll release a lot of those costume sets and features in the C-Store down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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