The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

Yeah saw that and while it stinks we didnt get to see them during the actual show I really like the idea of putting a shows prelims as a new Unleashed the following week.

 

I just hope it doesn't get to a point where they hold off on showing decent prelims on free time during the PPV because they are saving them up to have 'first time on TV' content to go against Strikeforce etc. It's not so bad for us here in the UK because we don't pay for the PPV's like folks in the US...but if I was laying down $55 every 3-4 weeks I'd want my $$$'s worth.

[jesterx7769]

That had actually been a complaint of mine for awhile. Only twice have I spent the $55 on my own (well me and the gf split instead of a party/group) and I've always felt they should show you the prelims, I mean what else is the PPV company really doing? Having another random movie available to order on one of their many channels? They dont even have to do it live before hand, they could show them post show (which would make more sense). Can't be a cost thing, they already have people filming, editing, and announcing them so why not just put them out there?

[brashleyholland]

That had actually been a complaint of mine for awhile. Only twice have I spent the $55 on my own (well me and the gf split instead of a party/group) and I've always felt they should show you the prelims, I mean what else is the PPV company really doing? Having another random movie available to order on one of their many channels? They dont even have to do it live before hand, they could show them post show (which would make more sense). Can't be a cost thing, they already have people filming, editing, and announcing them so why not just put them out there?

 

I think it's because they buy a three-hour block of PPV time...anything more than that and it costs them more from the PPV providers. They had a situation in the past...I want to say UFC 33...where they had 6 of the 8 bouts (three of which were 25-min title bouts) go to a decision. The main event (Ortiz vs Matyushenko) ended up being cut off. It would cost so much more for a 5 and a half hour PPV (thats how long a live show lasts) that they'd have to pass the cost on to viewers.

 

To be fair to them, on PPV they do usually fill up the time they have with prelims. You often see 7-9 fights, which is value for money I guess. Then again I'm not paying for it on a per-show basis here in the UK so that's not for me to say.

 

I know that if you buy the online PPV, you get the prelims free. You can also buy them from the UFC Vault the very next day. They're all about the money in that respect. LOL, we shouldn't really complain at the moment though...two STACKED cards back to back, UFC on Versus and UFC Fight Night on free TV on consecutive weeks :-p

[brashleyholland]

Couple of interesting news bits

 

- Scott Coker has confirmed Fedor-Werdum for June at an unannounced show. You'd have to assume it was a CBS show due to Fedor's wage demands. I'm sure CBS wont mind putting another show on in such close proximity due to Emelianenko's popularity. Will be very interesting to see the difference in ratings between the Hendo-Shields bout and this.

 

- Carwin missed the press conference yesterday, which started immediate rumblings through some of the 'press' there that he was still cutting from 726lbs and wouldn't be on weight or in a good condition come fight time. In reality he was getting his clearances finalised after his flight was delayed. Still, fun to see everyone jumping on the "OMGZ he's gonna cut 400lbs and 3ft in height the day before the fight!" bandwagon. And people wonder why MMA journalism has a bad name...

 

- Wanderlei Silva vs Yoshihiro Akiyama is on for 116 on July 3rd, as part of the undercard of the Lesnar vs Carwin/Mir/Velasquez fight. Should make for a very entertaining fight considering the principles. Winner could very well fight Mike Bisping at later this year in London, should he get past Dan Miller.

 

 

- Was contacted by Alessio Sakara's translator yesterday to send him some interview questions. He's very interested in calling out Mike Bisping for a fight later in the year. Should they want to go in a different direction with the Silva/Akiyama winner, or god-forbid should Bisping lose to Miller, Sakara-Bisping would be a great fight for both men.

 

 

- Dana White isn't interested in Velasquez vs JDS just yet. Doesn't want to kill either of their momentum before a title shot apparently. All well and good, but when you have a division with so many guys on similar levels, you're always going to have a bit of a round-robin type thing going on. Otherwise you're either A) Keeping guys on the shelf for months or B) Feeding your top guys cans, which hurts them even more if they lose.

[brashleyholland]

Alves is out of the Fitch bout after failing a CAT scan.

 

That does *not* bode well for him. There is an irregularity with an artery in his brain. Let's hope this is not as serious as it sounds...

 

Seems like Fitch is off the card with Pellegrino/Camoes promoted to the main card. Was looking forward to that anyway.

 

There's nobody else on the card at welterweight they could have put in with Fitch. Riddle/Soto wouldn't have been sanctioned against him. Diaz, Markham, Almeida and Brown were already in featured bouts on Spike that have been selected especially for the excitement factor to help sell the PPV. Plus it's unlikely that any of those guys would have wanted to fight Fitch on late notice, considering his propensity for grinding out boring decisions. No upside in that.

 

Poor Fitch, this was pretty much his only chance at a guaranteed title shot.

[Daffanka]

Oh god damn it I really wanted to see that fight

 

I hope his career isn't over. I love to watch Alves fight and he's still really young.

[jesterx7769]

No I didnt see that this morning! I saw the other news stuff you had recapped but not that! GD! I was really looking forward to that Man I am seriously dissapointed... I love it when there are three/four main card fights I am excited to see (since that hasnt been the case the past 6 months)

[brashleyholland]

The latest is that Ricardo Liborio (ATT leader) wants this fight switched to 112.

 

First of all, I seriously hope that he is under the impression that this is a formality that can be cleared up. If, on the other hand, he wants to take this fight to Abu Dhabi because he knows that there isn't a commission to prevent the fight from happening there, then I'd have to question whether or not he has his fighters best interests at heart.

 

From the UFC's point of view - It'd be absolutely horrendous PR for them if they let this fight happen in two weeks time at 112. Unless he is cleared 100% fit by an independent doctor, they'd be crazy to have him anywhere near the cage. Even if nothing happens to him, it's the kind of thing MMA critics will lap up.

 

Imagine the headlines "CAGE FIGHT PUMMELLED TWO WEEKS AFTER FAILING BRAIN SCAN".

 

Lol, bit of a rant there, but I have no interest in seeing anyone with serious medical issues putting themselves in danger. Paying Thiago Silva to fight through a mild back injury at 108 was one thing...hopefully common sense will prevail here.

[brashleyholland]

Fitch will now face Ben Saunders, leaving Jake Ellenberger without an opponant and killing a potentially excellent match in favour of a potentially dreadful one.

 

The UFC pay fighters if their opponant drops out and they can't find a replacement, usually their full fight and win money, and an extra chunk to cover endorsement money that they will miss out on by not appearing on the broadcast.

 

I guess it's more financially viable to pay Jake Ellenberger not to fight (less than $30 grand, possibly a touch over) than paying Fitch not to fight (well over $100,000).

[jesterx7769]

Scary thing is Fitch better win or we could be losing Fitch and Alves (depending on his health) as immediate 170 contenders.

[Daffanka]

Scary thing is Fitch better win or we could be losing Fitch and Alves (depending on his health) as immediate 170 contenders.

 

Fitch almost certainly won't lose. The reason I was so excited about Fitch - Alves was that it'd determine a clear #2 WW.

 

Really this is pretty bad for the UFC. If Alves - Fitch had a clear finish they could market the winner as doing what GSP couldn't do; finishing their opponent (which really doesn't matter at all when you look at how GSP dominated both of them) and give them a shot. Now either Fitch wins and nothing has perceivably changed since GSP absolutely smashed him, or Saunders wins and the guy who lost to Mike Swick gets a shot (I guess?)

 

Really who's left in the WW ranks as credible contenders that are fresh opponent for GSP? Paulo Thiago and the winner of Daley/Koscheck?

[jesterx7769]

I imagine Daley/Kos would be next since they would each have a 3 fight UFC win streak but I still hold Fitch/Alves over them but its obvious Alves wouldnt get a rematch so soon. If Fitch wins we still migh see him go against GSP next since by the time they fight it will have been two years ago, or if the UFC wants Daley could be credibile since he hasn't fought GSP yet where if its Fitch/Kos I think Fitch gets the edge.

 

Then if youre looking farther ahead after that depending what goes on of course I think thats is where Thiago fits in. Johnson is of course in the conversation but being injured for the Howard fight really hurt him and if he keeps missing weight (sorry to pick on him but if he stars making weight more I'll stop) I doubt the will put him in a match where he HAS to be make the weight.

 

If Fitch wins they can bring him into the ring and do that whole interview staredown thing which UFC likes to do but if they want to be patient and wait until Daley/Kos I can't complain about that either since I dont think anyone can 100% clearly say Fitch is the main that covers both competitive and marketing aspects.

[jesterx7769]

crap! Almost forgot, I hope UFC signs Shields after his April fight againsnt Henderson and he wins (think its April) if so then a GSP vs. Shields fight is 100% the most clear option if they want to give him a direct title shot, I mean come on, UFC vs. Strikeforce champ and they haven't fougth before so Shields beats out Fitch/Kos from marketing but I do think a Shields vs. Fitch match is best from a competitive stand point

 

However I think a Shields vs. GSP would be boring to the masses (not exactly a KO slug fest)

[Daffanka]

However I think a Shields vs. GSP would be boring to the masses (not exactly a KO slug fest)

 

It'd be just like every other GSP fight; GSP takes Shields down and beats on him for five rounds.

 

I'm not sure how exactly GSP - Shields would be competitive. Guys like Hardy, Daley and Paulo Thiago at least have a theoretical chance of hitting his weak chin with something big. Shields' kickboxing is pretty bad and GSP is a way better wrestler and grappler.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Before I talk about the Saunders situation..

 

I have no interest whatsoever in seeing Fitch in the title picture. Yeah, he survived St. Pierre's assault for five rounds. He's a tough guy, but St. Pierre hasn't exactly been a world beater on his feet(in terms of rocking/KO'ing people), aside from when he kicked Hughes in the face. The first GSP/Fitch fight, for as much damage that was done, was boring as hell.

 

It wasn't the worst fight I've ever seen, but I haven't seen anything out of Fitch recently that at all makes me believe he could beat St. Pierre this time around... So why pad St. Pierre's record on a fight that probably wouldn't sell as many buys as Kimbo Slice vs. The Bunny Bread Vendor.

 

 

That being said...

 

Saunders wins this fight. Huh, you say? Yeah, I said it. Saunders will win this fight, by TKO. I don't see Fitch dealing with the frame of Saunders very well when he's been pounding the training for a stocky 5'8" for several weeks now. Saunders has some ridiculously quick knees and he knows how to put all of his weight behind them. Beautiful Muay Thai(obviously not on the level of Fitch's original opponent)... The key difference I see is Saunders is always attacking when he's on his back. Alves is much more prone to just trying to get back up, and considering how much weight he cuts, that's taxing when you get into later rounds.

 

Saunders isn't going to have that issue, because he'll be able to push Fitch back and scramble more easily, or if he feels comfortable, attack from the bottom and maybe catch a sweep.

 

We'll see, I'm more excited for this fight than I was an Alves/Fitch rematch.

[RingofHonorGuard]

It'd be just like every other GSP fight; GSP takes Shields down and beats on him for five rounds.

 

I'm not sure how exactly GSP - Shields would be competitive. Guys like Hardy, Daley and Paulo Thiago at least have a theoretical chance of hitting his weak chin with something big. Shields' kickboxing is pretty bad and GSP is a way better wrestler and grappler.

 

I can't stand GSP, but I wouldn't really call his chin weak. He got hit by Matt Serra, who has been doing nothing but strength & conditioning training... If you look at Matt Serra's body, you will understand why his punches are so powerful. And he also hit St. Pierre in the back of the head with the punch that "stumbled him" even though it was St. Pierre's fault that it hit there, which is why there was no foul called.

 

It's not like he's Big Noggin' it up out there and getting dropped 2-3 times in every fight. St. Pierre hardly ever gets hit, and this is coming from a guy who roots against him every time he's out. I've got money on Hardy, just out of spite, even though Hardy's chances are less than Serra's in my view.

 

Also, St. Pierre's wrestling is better than Shields for sure... But jiu jitsu wise, it's not even close... St. Pierre didn't know how to properly apply basic jiu jitsu armlocks in the heat of battle up until he trained with Jackson Camp, and that's pretty much from the mouth of Greg Jackson himself, when St. Pierre was failing to apply an armlock to Hughes during their second or third(can't remember which one it was). St. Pierre isn't very good off of his back, Shields is.. and the top game isn't even close. If Shields got St. Pierre down and passed his guard, it would be over within minutes, regardless of how big St. Pierre's godhood is.

 

Shields is a finisher on the ground. GSP would want that fight on the feet

 

And before anyone even brings up GSP/Penn or Serra II.. Size makes a difference. If he's able to do that to a decorated BJJ black belt of the same size as he is, I'll be impressed... So yeah, if he was able to take Shields down for five rounds and lay on him, I would be impressed.

[Dustin]

If a GSP family member dies, he mourns the loss, suffers an injury and overlooks Hardy then Dan might just have a chance at victory. Not a very good chance, but a chance.

 

To the guy that said GSP didn’t know subs before going to Jackson: Greg Jackson is VERY sarcastic. I bet you also believe the story he told about one of his fighters training by going to strip clubs and drinking 10 bottles of booze a day. Seriously, GSP trained with Fabio Holanda long before going to Jackson.

 

And GSP isn't very good off his back? I don't ever recall him being put there for more than a few seconds so how do you know this?

[RingofHonorGuard]

If a GSP family member dies, he mourns the loss, suffers an injury and overlooks Hardy then Dan might just have a chance at victory. Not a very good chance, but a chance.

 

To the guy that said GSP didn’t know subs before going to Jackson: Greg Jackson is VERY sarcastic. I bet you also believe the story he told about one of his fighters training by going to strip clubs and drinking 10 bottles of booze a day. Seriously, GSP trained with Fabio Holanda long before going to Jackson.

 

And GSP isn't very good off his back? I don't ever recall him being put there for more than a few seconds so how do you know this?

 

Uh... Because I've watched videos of GSP competing in grappling competitions where... get this(and you'll be shocked)... the fights take place in different positions on the ground!

 

I hope this site doesn't continue collecting MMA fighter fanheads who get offended everytime someone makes an unbiased statement about their favorite.

 

I don't recall saying St. Pierre didn't know -any- submissions, I was basically stating that he didn't know how to FINISH a fight with a basic armlock against Hughes in their second fight. He also got finished by Hughes in their first fight, but you'll argue that was "so long ago", so what's the point. Go do some research, and if you still can't understand why I said what I did then you're obviously blinded by your adoration for GSP.

 

Also, Hardy isn't -that- big of an underdog. He's got a lot of ground to make up, and his ground game most likely isn't at the level it needs to pull off a submission against St. Pierre once he starts his "level changing lay and pray" that he so enjoys. But Hardy has a lot of heart, and he's tough to finish which means he's most likely going to Jon Fitch it out there, but I hope he beats St. Pierre with something retarded like a flying knee or a flying triangle, and part of me hopes Eddie Bravo is on commentary as it's been rumored so I can hear him yelling "10th Planet Jiu Jitsu, BITCHES!" over Goldie's "biggest upset ever" yells.

[Daffanka]

e: you know what you just don't like GSP and I'm not going to argue about this

 

Also Fitch is going to take down and lay on Saunders for three rounds for an easy decision. Saunders is still the guy that got held down by Mike Swick.

[RingofHonorGuard]

e: you know what you just don't like GSP and I'm not going to argue about this

 

Also Fitch is going to take down and lay on Saunders for three rounds for an easy decision. Saunders is still the guy that got held down by Mike Swick.

 

Yeah because Swick's wrestling has to be so terrible... you know.. working with two of the four best wrestlers in the welterweight division and all... Swick's wrestling isn't great, but it's good enough to make him comfortable and there's no shame in being held down by him. Swick is top ten in the UFC, notice I said UFC, and not MMA. Furthermore, Swick held him down for a round, and then knocked him out... Fitch is a pillowpuncher, he's not going to have that luxury unfortunately. Show me a fight where Saunders gets held down for three rounds to a decision, and I'll give you your dues... Oh, that's right, he's only lost to Swick. Hmm...

[jesterx7769]

I'm glad someoen that doesn't like GSP said he doesn't have a weak chin. That is the most ignorant annoying thing that I hate hearing from his opponents and people on any board. He has been knocked out ONCE (which was a TKO not even a KO) and everyone says its his huge weakness. Sorry but when was the last time someone was great at getting hit behind the ear? If GSP had say 3 losses by KO and not submission or something then I would say that is his probably his weakness but one time gives you a weak chin? Come on.

 

BTW I agree his MMA BJJ wasn't that great a fews ago, as you mentioned when he got subbed by Hughes he should have been able to prologue Hughes getting it locked and held out till the end of the round since time was almost out. So yeah that was a long time ago but thats the point and hence gaining experience.

 

I thought he was going to try to sub Alves but I think the groin prevented that so we'll see if he tries to sub Hardy, curious to see what his gameplan will be, will he push up him against the fence like the BJ fight? Constant takedowns like Alves? Stand and throw kicks like the Hughes fight? (with multiple testy kicks )

[Daffanka]

Yeah because Swick's wrestling has to be so terrible... you know.. working with two of the four best wrestlers in the welterweight division and all... Swick's wrestling isn't great, but it's good enough to make him comfortable and there's no shame in being held down by him. Swick is top ten in the UFC, notice I said UFC, and not MMA. Furthermore, Swick held him down for a round, and then knocked him out... Fitch is a pillowpuncher, he's not going to have that luxury unfortunately. Show me a fight where Saunders gets held down for three rounds to a decision, and I'll give you your dues... Oh, that's right, he's only lost to Swick. Hmm...

 

Yeah and Fitch is the second best wrestler in the division so where does that leave Saunders?

 

And who, exactly, is so good outside the UFC in the WW ranks? Shields is probably a top 10 but who else? Diaz, who's lost to every wrestler he's fought? Zaromskis, who's a tiny welterweight and rose to fame the Cro Cop way, IE headkicking bad to mediocre fighters?

[Dustin]

Uh... Because I've watched videos of GSP competing in grappling competitions where... get this(and you'll be shocked)... the fights take place in different positions on the ground!

 

I hope this site doesn't continue collecting MMA fighter fanheads who get offended everytime someone makes an unbiased statement about their favorite.

 

I don't recall saying St. Pierre didn't know -any- submissions, I was basically stating that he didn't know how to FINISH a fight with a basic armlock against Hughes in their second fight. He also got finished by Hughes in their first fight, but you'll argue that was "so long ago", so what's the point. Go do some research, and if you still can't understand why I said what I did then you're obviously blinded by your adoration for GSP.

 

Also, Hardy isn't -that- big of an underdog. He's got a lot of ground to make up, and his ground game most likely isn't at the level it needs to pull off a submission against St. Pierre once he starts his "level changing lay and pray" that he so enjoys. But Hardy has a lot of heart, and he's tough to finish which means he's most likely going to Jon Fitch it out there, but I hope he beats St. Pierre with something retarded like a flying knee or a flying triangle, and part of me hopes Eddie Bravo is on commentary as it's been rumored so I can hear him yelling "10th Planet Jiu Jitsu, BITCHES!" over Goldie's "biggest upset ever" yells.

 

Unbiased? Please. You obviously don’t like GSP very much.

 

So GSP loses in ADCC where the GREATEST GRAPPLERS IN THE WORLD compete and all of a sudden he is no good. Plus this had to be 5, 6 years ago when the UFC actually allowed their fighters to do things like that. Get this (and it will blow your freaking mind)…5 or 6 years is plenty of time to get better. By your logic Anderson Silva could lose in K-1’s tournament where the greatest strikers in the world compete and all of a sudden he wouldn’t be a good striker anymore.

 

GSP/Hughes 2 was all standup besides one takedown where GSP passed guard but didn’t even attempt a submission. In their third fight GSP did finish with an armbar. He damn near ripped it off. It wasn’t a basic armbar but that makes it all the more impressive. GSP was owning him in their first fight too but you probably didn’t know that, did you? That armbar (on a very, very green GSP by a very, very experienced Hughes) was literally the only offensive move from Hughes and it was just as lucky as the KO from Serra.

 

Also, Hardy doesn’t have a chance in hell. Hardy is basically Alves but not as good. You will see what I mean tomorrow night.

 

PS: I don’t even like GSP that much but he definitely deserves the utmost respect.

[Tag01]

Wow. Galvao getting that decision is insane.

[Dustin]

Wow. Galvao getting that decision is insane.

 

Yeah but you have to admit that "DOWN GOES THE REF! DOWN GOES THE REF!" more than made up for it. LOL, so priceless.