The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[TheKenwyne]

Despite the prescence of Bisping, this looks like a good card. Velasquez-Nog will be fun, and there's always a chance of death when Wand is around. Oh, and there's a strong possibility of Cro Cop knocking someone's head off since he's fighting a can.

[Daffanka]

Despite the prescence of Bisping, this looks like a good card. Velasquez-Nog will be fun, and there's always a chance of death when Wand is around. Oh, and there's a strong possibility of Cro Cop knocking someone's head off since he's fighting a can.

 

I like it when Bisping fights guys that punch hard. He jumped into Kang's fist which leads me to believe he learned nothing from the Hendo loss. I thought Wand looked real good on the weigh ins too and maybe his clinch can become a force again at a lower weight.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I like it when Bisping fights guys that punch hard. He jumped into Kang's fist which leads me to believe he learned nothing from the Hendo loss. I thought Wand looked real good on the weigh ins too and maybe his clinch can become a force again at a lower weight.

 

This fight is a lot closer than people are giving it credit for, though. Wanderlei's wrestling is no where near the level of Hendo's, so there's always the possibility that Bisping puts Wand on his ass and keeps him there. Chuck kept him on the ground, after all. But yeah, Bisping certainly has no regard for getting hit it seems... However, I see Bisping imploring the same strategy in this fight that he did against Leben... Back up, counter when you can, if the takedown comes; take it, and then hope for the best.

[Astyn]

completely shocked at the Joe Stevenson - George Sotiropoulos match and Cain Velasquez - Noguiera match happy that Bader and Velasquez won their matches.

[jesterx7769]

Entertaining card, as I much as I am biased towards Silva I actually thought Bisping won but I had a crappy stream of it so didnt see it as clearly as I should have.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Entertaining card, as I much as I am biased towards Silva I actually thought Bisping won but I had a crappy stream of it so didnt see it as clearly as I should have.

 

Bisping was literally saved by the bell from being destroyed on two different occasions, the major one being the third round where I thought Wand was going to finish him only to have the horn blow. Several people scored the final round 10-8 for Wand.

 

Edit: I watched the fight again today and I can see where some people may have thought Bisping won. The third round was a lot closer than I previously thought too, though I still feel Wand won it at the end with his flurry and near finish. Bisping looked solid and came out ahead.

[Daffanka]

Wanderlei

 

Nog

 

Well I'm not that sad since I'm a big fan of Velasquez but it was a bit sad to see Nog's title run go down in flames. He definitely has a few more fights in him but I don't think he'll ever reach Brock, though I actually think he'd have an easier time with Lesnar than some of the contenders.

 

At least his dreams can live through Dos Santos. Now watch him get taken down and tapped out in two minutes by Gonzaga.

[Blackman]

A bit disappointed at the lack of finishes, but hey.

 

Very dissapointed in big nog, my favorite fighter. I guess Velasquez IS fo real. But so quick.

 

The other fights on the other hand lasted for hours and weren't all that excitiing. But then again, I sometimes skipped a couple of minutes. Oh well.

[MrSelfDestruct]

A bit disappointed at the lack of finishes, but hey.

 

Very dissapointed in big nog, my favorite fighter. I guess Velasquez IS fo real. But so quick.

 

The other fights on the other hand lasted for hours and weren't all that excitiing. But then again, I sometimes skipped a couple of minutes. Oh well.

 

yeah me too, nearly all the fights went to the third round, the only true dominant finish was Cain. Nearly every fight someone had a chance to finish it but didnt, i thought Bonnar should have been finished a few times.

 

As for Lytle, that took skill, but Foster was doing very well before that. and Cro Cop, well i boo his performance

[RingofHonorGuard]

A bit disappointed at the lack of finishes, but hey.

 

Very dissapointed in big nog, my favorite fighter. I guess Velasquez IS fo real. But so quick.

 

The other fights on the other hand lasted for hours and weren't all that excitiing. But then again, I sometimes skipped a couple of minutes. Oh well.

 

As a fan of jiu jitsu I really enjoyed Sotiropolous and Stevenson going the distance. It told us a lot more about where George stands skill wise, and he looked incredible. Children everywhere are now picking up bongs and heading down yonder to Eddie Bravo's House of Peace, Love, and Jiu Jitsu. Could it have been proportionate to Aqua's one hit wonder "Barbie Girl"? Who knows. We'll see, I think George should fight Kenny Florian next and if he steam rolls Florian like he did Joe Daddy, then perhaps Eddie Bravo may yet trump King Penn.

 

Sometimes long, epic battles can tell a better story than a 30 second highlight reel KO. To be fair, I could have done with Cro Cop disposing of Perosh a little bit faster, and maybe a bit more devastating than a gaping wound. This pay per view served it's purpose though, because now Cain Velasquez is officially a threat in the division(most of us already knew this). This means the UFC Heavyweight division is that much more stacked, so they can send gatekeepers like Heath Herring to pasture in DREAM or WVR to farm more talent.

[jesterx7769]

I agree with everyone talking about Cain, if he would have lost he would have been tossed aside, however he is now the #1 or 2 contender according to Dana and Nog is still Nog, so really all he would need is two more wins (possibly even one) and hes back to being ready for a title shot.

[TheKenwyne]

As a fan of jiu jitsu I really enjoyed Sotiropolous and Stevenson going the distance. It told us a lot more about where George stands skill wise, and he looked incredible. Children everywhere are now picking up bongs and heading down yonder to Eddie Bravo's House of Peace, Love, and Jiu Jitsu. Could it have been proportionate to Aqua's one hit wonder "Barbie Girl"? Who knows. We'll see, I think George should fight Kenny Florian next and if he steam rolls Florian like he did Joe Daddy, then perhaps Eddie Bravo may yet trump King Penn.

 

Sometimes long, epic battles can tell a better story than a 30 second highlight reel KO. To be fair, I could have done with Cro Cop disposing of Perosh a little bit faster, and maybe a bit more devastating than a gaping wound. This pay per view served it's purpose though, because now Cain Velasquez is officially a threat in the division(most of us already knew this). This means the UFC Heavyweight division is that much more stacked, so they can send gatekeepers like Heath Herring to pasture in DREAM or WVR to farm more talent.

 

I've rated Sotiropolous for a while, but he really did show us something against Daddy last night. He can't fight Kenny next, though, as ol' Razor Elbows has to deal with our good friend Takanori Gomi in a Fight Night card end of March, if my memory doesn't fail me. I don't think George should be forced to step up to quickly though, since he is still only young and truly a work in progress.

 

Mirko really does need to consider hanging up the gloves. I mean, two rounds to finish Anthony Perosh, who Jeff Monson KO'd? C'mon, man. And then the finish by cut... dissapointing.

 

Entertaining card, as I much as I am biased towards Silva I actually thought Bisping won but I had a crappy stream of it so didnt see it as clearly as I should have.

 

I scored it for Bisping too if that's any consolation.

 

Twas a good card, especially Sotirpolous-Stevenson. I enjoyed it, at any rate, despite Cain destroying Nog ()... he looked really poor... his hands were not as sharp as I've come to expect, and his chin is no longer what it used to be it seems. Cain really impressed me with his improved striking though, credit to him. Bader continues his rampage through the LHW division: where next for him? I think perhaps a truly top level LHW - Forrest Griffin pops to mind, he's not got a fight booked and he's coming off a win.

[justtxyank]

I agree with everyone talking about Cain, if he would have lost he would have been tossed aside, however he is now the #1 or 2 contender according to Dana and Nog is still Nog, so really all he would need is two more wins (possibly even one) and hes back to being ready for a title shot.

 

I can't imagine Nog is going to end up getting a title shot any time soon. He looked slow in his last several fights and the excuse was given that he was injured. Now that he was supposed to finally be healthy he got dominated by Cain.

 

At best Nog would be behind Carin, Mir, and Cain now in terms of title shots, and you figure that if one of those guys beats Brock he'll get a rematch before Nog could get a shot. This loss might have ended Nog's top of the line career.

[Daffanka]

Yeah I can't see Nog winning any major fights anymore. Heavyweights are a lot better now and Nog has pretty big holes in his game if he can't rely on being impossible to knock out.

[jesterx7769]

I dont necessarily mean he will win a title but he is still in the upper part of the division and has his legacy. If Cain would have lost everyone would be talking about how he cant fight top fighters and will get pushed down the card.

 

Nog has pretty big holes in his game if he can't rely on being impossible to knock out.

 

Care to enlighten what these big holes are?

[Daffanka]

Being punched in the face from any position. He would have lost to a whole bunch of guys if he didn't have that ungodly chin.

[ColtCabana]

Gutted I didn't realise that UFC 110 was on free to air tv on One HD. The usual medical idiots have come out saying that the UFC is dangerous and nobody should watch, all they do is show how clueless they are to the sport of MMA.

[brashleyholland]

 

 

 

Care to enlighten what these big holes are?

 

 

Well, his wrestling was always garbage, but I guess he had the fact that he was the best ground fighter in the history of MMA to counteract that

 

In all seriousness though, Nog does have some holes now - unfortunatelly they are physical holes rather than anything he can make adjustments for.

 

He has some serious vision problems for starters...there was a serious rumour going around last year that went largly ignored by the MMA media, but was acknowledged by a couple of well-connected MMA blogers. Basically the rumour was that Nogueira was denied a licence to fight by one of the major US commisions, i.e. Nevada or Cali. Now, this could all be false..but the sources were very, very good, and there has been no denial of it whatsoever.

 

Apparently Zuffa made it abundantly clear that this was a no-no topic of conversation, which lead some to believe that they intended to continue using Nog in unregulated areas or states with lax commissions (Oregon, for example). The UFC has a UK date locked in for the end of this year...I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Nogueira on that show, and any Asian event they put on in 2011.

 

Back to Nog's health, he has the body of someone in their late 30's, lots of injuries - poor reflexes. His famous chin appears to be faltering as well. I love Nogueira, I've followed his entire career since back when people were saying "Meh, Brazil never churns out good heavyweights"...that said, I have absolutly ZERO interest in seeing a guy with vision and speech problems get matched up against fighters like Velasquez anymore.

 

I find the idea of a 'legends' division patronising; but if Nogueira wants to fight then they should be very carefull about who they match him up against. Cro Cop would be ideal, as would the winner of Struve/Nelson.

[brashleyholland]

Bisping was literally saved by the bell from being destroyed on two different occasions, the major one being the third round where I thought Wand was going to finish him only to have the horn blow. Several people scored the final round 10-8 for Wand.

 

Edit: I watched the fight again today and I can see where some people may have thought Bisping won. The third round was a lot closer than I previously thought too, though I still feel Wand won it at the end with his flurry and near finish. Bisping looked solid and came out ahead.

 

 

1st round was Bisping, but still close.

 

3rd was close, but Wanderlei absolutly won it by virtue of nearly finishing the fight at the end. That's damage - which is the first factor considered.

 

2nd round is the contentious one. The fact is, that guillotine wasn't on. He could have had another 5 minutes, it wouldn't have mattered. Like Rogan said, thats not how you finish an arm-in guillotine. You don't have the angle to get the choke possition propperly, and your own arm prevents it from hurting/crushing like a can-opener does. If anything, he was tiring his own arms out. That said, I don't expect most judges to realise that - so can see why someone would have scored it for Wanderlei.

 

My massive bias aside, I honestly gave that round to Mike. The sweep and the guillotine were all that Wand had, personally I don't think that was enough to win the round, but with a round so close, it can go either way.

 

So while I do thing Bisping won 29-28, it was by no means a robbery. I'm also firmly in the camp of people who believe the 10-point must system is flawed for 3 round fights and that they should be judged as a whole - in which case it's a pretty clear win for Silva.

 

My questions now: Who do Bisping and Silva fight next? Odd's are that Silva gets Akiyama...Bisping vs the winner of Beltcher/Cote? Maia (should he lose), winner of Grove/Munoz?

[RingofHonorGuard]

Wand was counterstriking and beating Bisping to the punch the majority of the time. Bisping was throwing tappy-tap punches and keeping Wand on the end of his punches, as he was backing up... That's dumb. Bisping should have been taking advantage of that, and he might have stole a couple of rounds in the eyes of the judges. Bisping scored with a couple of takedowns, but did absolutely nothing with them. Most of the time that doesn't register well with judges, and they don't think much of it. It's when a guy gets a takedown and has some considerable amount of control, which is how it should be. That's been the problem with MMA these past few years.... People put too much stock in takedowns alone... The takedowns aren't doing any damage unless they're impact slams. It's what you do with it once it's there. Landing a takedown and doing nothing with it is probably comparable to landing a clean punch or kick in the eyes of the judges.

 

Furthermore, the arm in guillotine was applied, it just wasn't as nasty as it would have been if Wand pressed down instead of falling back. When you look at how red Bisping is starting to get as that choke is sunk in, it tells all the stories. When the arm is in, pushing down turns it into a blood and air choke, cutting off all chances for survival. When he was pulling back, it was still very much a blood choke, but Bisping was still able to breath a bit.. so yeah, he was most likely in no danger of being finished, but the fact is, the choke served its purpose which was disorienting Bisping.

 

Wand threw leg kicks throughout the fight, landed solid counters(which believe it or not garner praise in the eyes of these Boxing Judges Turned MMA Judges. In the third round Bisping kind of seemed to fade out and Wand turned it up, coming forward and winging punches.

 

I give a lot of credit to Mike, regardless. Everyone expected him to get rape choked and destroyed similar to how Hendo did it, but props to him for not only surviving but actually winning the fight in some eyes... And hey, I'd be more than happy to say Bisping won if you guys can talk to the commission about overturning Wand's loss to Franklin

 

--------

 

As far as Bisping's next opponent... I'd like to see him fight Nate Marquardt, as I think that will truly gauge where Bisping stands in the middleweight division. Wand will fight Akiyama, that's pretty much a guarentee, as that's a fight that will sell in Japan for them. I don't know much about UFC's overseas PPV relations, but I noticed a "WOWOW" advertisement and a Wand/Akiyama fight would for sure bring out some fans in Japan.

[Mr_Tricky]

I didn't know Nogueira had vision problems, that would explain a lot. I thought he was just trying to be exciting staying in the pocket and exchanging. Clearly not a good idea when your opponent has the speed and power advantage.

 

Do you know where I can read these blogs, BH?

[brashleyholland]

 

I give a lot of credit to Mike, regardless. Everyone expected him to get rape choked and destroyed similar to how Hendo did it, but props to him for not only surviving but actually winning the fight in some eyes... And hey, I'd be more than happy to say Bisping won if you guys can talk to the commission about overturning Wand's loss to Franklin

 

Lol, I'm seriously starting to believe in Karma. See, after the Hamil fight, I reckon Bisping owed the world a couple of close decisions. With Evans and Silva, and the Hendo knock out, I think he's paid in full.

 

As far as Bisping's next opponent... I'd like to see him fight Nate Marquardt, as I think that will truly gauge where Bisping stands in the middleweight division. Wand will fight Akiyama, that's pretty much a guarentee, as that's a fight that will sell in Japan for them. I don't know much about UFC's overseas PPV relations, but I noticed a "WOWOW" advertisement and a Wand/Akiyama fight would for sure bring out some fans in Japan.

 

They've had their current WOWOW deal since late 2008, I believe it airs on their subscription service - so not strictly PPV, but you pay a monthly fee for the station and the UFC airs on tape delay and replays.

 

Dana White said China/India/Korea before Japan in one of the recent press calls. The fight game in Japan is in an absolute mess at the moment...they don't run a PPV model, so most promoters are basically just middle-men. Huge companies like Fields and Don Quixote foot the bill, and the events air on big TV networks acting as a 3-hour advertisement.

 

Don Quixote balked at the pricetag of the Yoshida-Ishii fight on NYE...this is the same company that footed the $4,000,000 purse for the Yoshida-Ogawa fight five years ago. That's the single reason that we saw a DREAM/SRC co-promotion on NYE.

 

So yeah, with sponsors not backing the fight game to the same extent they were, TV isn't interested. Thats the issue they are facing over there - couple of course with the issue that to get sponsors, buildings and TV time in the first place in Japan you need certain 'connections' which the UFC doesn't have.

 

Akiyama vs Wanderlei would be HUGE in South Korea though.

[brashleyholland]

I didn't know Nogueira had vision problems, that would explain a lot. I thought he was just trying to be exciting staying in the pocket and exchanging. Clearly not a good idea when your opponent has the speed and power advantage.

 

Do you know where I can read these blogs, BH?

 

Off the top of my head, MMALogic, Zach Arnold and Alan Conceicao all mentioned it early last year/late 2008 after the Mir fight. I believe Goldenboy also mentioned it on the UG, which is as good as a confirmation as far as I'm concerned! (He's a very well connected and respected guy that has been involved in all aspects of the fight game in the States for decades)

 

To be fair, the problems themselves aren't new - he's had a lazer surgery on his right eye before, just before the Tamura fight in Pride. Apparently he wears a helmet for protection in training.

 

The commissions are very strict on eye problems - Clay French is a great fighter who struggles for licences in some states. He only has one eye, but with perfect vision.

[justtxyank]

Well, his wrestling was always garbage, but I guess he had the fact that he was the best ground fighter in the history of MMA to counteract that

 

In all seriousness though, Nog does have some holes now - unfortunatelly they are physical holes rather than anything he can make adjustments for.

 

He has some serious vision problems for starters...there was a serious rumour going around last year that went largly ignored by the MMA media, but was acknowledged by a couple of well-connected MMA blogers. Basically the rumour was that Nogueira was denied a licence to fight by one of the major US commisions, i.e. Nevada or Cali. Now, this could all be false..but the sources were very, very good, and there has been no denial of it whatsoever.

 

Apparently Zuffa made it abundantly clear that this was a no-no topic of conversation, which lead some to believe that they intended to continue using Nog in unregulated areas or states with lax commissions (Oregon, for example). The UFC has a UK date locked in for the end of this year...I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Nogueira on that show, and any Asian event they put on in 2011.

 

Back to Nog's health, he has the body of someone in their late 30's, lots of injuries - poor reflexes. His famous chin appears to be faltering as well. I love Nogueira, I've followed his entire career since back when people were saying "Meh, Brazil never churns out good heavyweights"...that said, I have absolutly ZERO interest in seeing a guy with vision and speech problems get matched up against fighters like Velasquez anymore.

 

I find the idea of a 'legends' division patronising; but if Nogueira wants to fight then they should be very carefull about who they match him up against. Cro Cop would be ideal, as would the winner of Struve/Nelson.

 

All that seems logical. I honestly don't see him getting another title shot before retirement with the UFC.

 

Next up for Brock is Mir/Carwin. If it is Mir, Carwin will then drop to 3rd on the pecking order and might get a match with Cain. After Mir it is Cain. Brock has said he wants to fight Couture again and that fight might happen.

 

The only reason Brock/Nog might happen is because it is still a "money" fight. Dana might protect Nog and give him two solid wins and then if Brock is still standing after Mir and Cain, give Nog that last shot.

[brashleyholland]

 

Next up for Brock is Mir/Carwin. If it is Mir, Carwin will then drop to 3rd on the pecking order and might get a match with Cain. After Mir it is Cain. Brock has said he wants to fight Couture again and that fight might happen.

 

The only reason Brock/Nog might happen is because it is still a "money" fight. Dana might protect Nog and give him two solid wins and then if Brock is still standing after Mir and Cain, give Nog that last shot.

 

It all comes down to two things: When is Lesnar good to go and Will the winner of Carwin/Mir be fit enough to face him?

 

Apparently they're looking at June/July/August for Lesnar...if the winner of Carwin/Mir isn't fit, they've already said that they'll give Velasquez the fight. The winner would then fight the interim champion, probably at the end of year card, injuries permitting.

 

If the Mir/Carwin winner is fit, I can't see them risking Velasquez in the meantime...I reckon he'll sit on the shelf like Carwin did last year. I also wouldn't be hugely surprised to see Junior Dos Santos springboard into title contention following Nogueira's performance.

 

As for Nog, I don't see the upside in 'protecting' him anymore...if he can't take a punch, he's going to struggle in the HW division regardless. There a rematch with Mir, *if* Mir loses to Carwin or Lesnar. If Mir beats Carwin and Lesnar, you could have Brock vs Nog. Like I said earlier though, I don't like the idea of him fighting these young guns anymore.

 

For my money, give him Mirko and see how he fares.